Canon FF mirrorless...

Moreorless said:
Honestly 0.95 lenses to me seem less of an issue than Sony's choice of lens mount holding back more conventional lens designs.

I don't buy that the E-mount was included with FF designs in mind.
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Then how does it work?

Voodoo?
 
If the pics of camera and lenses, and the specs are correct it will be interesting to see how it compares to the Nikon Z cameras. Resolution wise it sits in between the Nikon's. Front on it looks a bit plain and maybe a chance missed to put some function buttons on there as Nikon did. There seems to loads of finger space between grip and lens mount for even the chubbiest of fingers unless the camera is tiny. ;) The fully articulating screen looks more useful than the Nikon's till up/down affair.

The buttons and wheels seem to be a departure in style from the Canon DSLR's. Not sure what the thing with the left/right arrows is. :thinking: I haven't seen a hi res version of the back of the body to see what all the buttons do. The top panel OLED's must be going cheap. ;) :LOL:

The lens choice looks like a better group of lenses for me than what Nikon have initially offered. That said, I don't understand the 28-70mm f2. :thinking: 24mm seems to be as wide as some people want, and 28mm looks a bit short imho. Maybe a 24-70 f2.8 or f4 may have been better to get the 24mm. The 50mm f1.2 Looks good depending on the quality and the price, and id perhaps what Nikon should have done. I think Nikon should have at least have had a 50mm f1.4, but ideally a f1.2 too.

I hope there are full details soon. it should be interesting. :)
 
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Speculators say the sensor will be pretty much the same as the 5D MKIV, like the guy I posted above
 
Strange left and right button on the back. Similar shape and style to the Z. Be interesting to see specs. Nice small fast 35mm too.

Not sure on the two tone. Grips look black but the body looks like some sort of dark grey?
 
Doesn’t appear to be fully weather sealed which is disappointing.
 
My dream lens is a 35-85mm f2, I never expected Canon to get closest to that first. Impressed, that's pretty aggressive from the usually reserved Canon, particularly with a 50mm 1.2 and always useful 24-105 f4 as well. A much better line up than Nikon.

I also like the control ring idea, presumably you could set that to Aperture and basically use it like a Fuji. Nice that they will offer that on all EF lenses to by way of the adaptor too.
 
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this looks promising to me, basically what the 6dmk11 could of been. pending reviews, I might be tempted to have a try
 
Cagey75 said:
Speculators say the sensor will be pretty much the same as the 5D MKIV, like the guy I posted above
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That is a shame. The sensor can’t match 3 generation old sensors such as the D800 sensor let alone the current crop.
 
Brazo said:
That is a shame. The sensor can’t match 3 generation old sensors such as the D800 sensor let alone the current crop.
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TBH the 5D4 sensor isn't that bad, and 'acceptable' imo. Yes it would be nice if they had the DR of Nikons but 13.6 ev isn't bad. If they could stretch it to a minimum of 14ev then it could be a winner.
 
Brazo said:
That is a shame. The sensor can’t match 3 generation old sensors such as the D800 sensor let alone the current crop.
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It depends on what you want from a camera. If you take DR at its lowest ISO as the criteria then no they can’t but Canon sensors have generally reduced the deficit as ISO has got higher. The 5D4 has an edge over the D850 in noise from 800 upwards and, as that is where I shoot a lot of the time headline, low ISO DR numbers are relatively unimportant.

If Canons mirrorless sensor show the same scores as the 5D4 most Canon users won’t give a damn. They’ll be more concerned with how it performs compared to the market leader in FF mirrorless. ie Sony. Probably, being Canon, it won’t be the market leader in performance but then it doesn’t have to be to sell well.

However it performs, it’s not for me. Apart from IBIS and better AF cover I don’t see any attraction in mirrorless.
 
OK there is a leaked 15 page pdf file of the specs (I can only assume it is genuine, if not some one has spent a lot of time putting it together)

The points that will create the biggest outcry :)
No IBIS....
Single Card Slot.

Of interest. A maximum of 5,655 AF points and AF working range of EV -6 up to 18
EF to EOS-R mount adapter for both EF and EF-S lenses (Not EOS-M lenses) (with regard to EF-S the camera does have a 'crop' mode, reading the specs the full sized sensor image is recorded but a virtual overlay is applied)

Edit Mike.P posted as I was typing...
 
PhilH04 said:
OK there is a leaked 15 page pdf file of the specs (I can only assume it is genuine, if not some one has spent a lot of time putting it together)

The points that will create the biggest outcry :)
No IBIS....
Single Card Slot.

Of interest. A maximum of 5,655 AF points and AF working range of EV -6 up to 18
EF to EOS-R mount adapter for both EF and EF-S lenses (Not EOS-M lenses) (with regard to EF-S the camera does have a 'crop' mode, reading the specs the full sized sensor image is recorded but a virtual overlay is applied)

Edit Mike.P posted as I was typing...
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Are we going to get 100 pages of people complaining of the single card slot like the Nikon one? I'll get it started, single card slot? Deal breaker for me ;) Plus only UHS-I?? At least the Nikon one has fast capability.
 
PhilH04 said:
OK there is a leaked 15 page pdf file of the specs (I can only assume it is genuine, if not some one has spent a lot of time putting it together)

The points that will create the biggest outcry :)
No IBIS....
Single Card Slot.

Of interest. A maximum of 5,655 AF points and AF working range of EV -6 up to 18
EF to EOS-R mount adapter for both EF and EF-S lenses (Not EOS-M lenses) (with regard to EF-S the camera does have a 'crop' mode, reading the specs the full sized sensor image is recorded but a virtual overlay is applied)

Edit Mike.P posted as I was typing...
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They always make strange decisions.

But it looks like 4K/30 with flip screen and dual pixels........

That alone will be fine for sales.
 
snerkler said:
TBH the 5D4 sensor isn't that bad, and 'acceptable' imo. Yes it would be nice if they had the DR of Nikons but 13.6 ev isn't bad. If they could stretch it to a minimum of 14ev then it could be a winner.
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The more dynamic range the better but one thing that struck me when comparing my 5D to my Panasonic G1 was that although the G1 had less DR (I think...) the files could take a lot of processing and pushing whereas the 5D files couldn't so I do wonder if DR was the whole problem back then or is now. If this new camera has a sensor that's a bit behind the best DR wise but the files don't fall apart so much when pushing that's maybe not so bad.
 
snerkler said:
Are we going to get 100 pages of people complaining of the single card slot like the Nikon one? I'll get it started, single card slot? Deal breaker for me ;) Plus only UHS-I?? At least the Nikon one has fast capability.
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It’s just on many levels for photos it is behind the Sony, IBIS, single card, eye-af.

For video bloggers I see this is perfect.
 
Specs are shocking.are Nikon and canon purposely trying to give Sony the crown?

If Sony is watching this.all they need to do Is announced there a7s3 with flip out screen and 4k60 on a A9 body for around 3 grand and this canikon announcement will be dead
 
PhilH04 said:
OK there is a leaked 15 page pdf file of the specs (I can only assume it is genuine, if not some one has spent a lot of time putting it together)

The points that will create the biggest outcry :)
No IBIS....
Single Card Slot.

Of interest. A maximum of 5,655 AF points and AF working range of EV -6 up to 18
EF to EOS-R mount adapter for both EF and EF-S lenses (Not EOS-M lenses) (with regard to EF-S the camera does have a 'crop' mode, reading the specs the full sized sensor image is recorded but a virtual overlay is applied)

Edit Mike.P posted as I was typing...
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The battery stats are also far from impressive.
 
jonneymendoza said:
Specs are shocking.are Nikon and canon purposely trying to give Sony the crown?

If Sony is watching this.all they need to do Is announced there a7s3 with flip out screen and 4k60 on a A9 body for around 3 grand and this canikon announcement will be dead
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All they need is to announce a compact and good 35mm f1.8!
 
Started writing before the spec list was leaked... (I guessed slightly wrong about ibis)

This camera will sell by the gazillion, but Canon have left this wide open for the haters, top moans:
  • One SD slot
  • Cropped 4K video
The other things people will complain about even though Canon have no real choice because they just don’t have the tech:
  • Lack of decent IBIS
  • The sensor isn’t as good as an equivalent Sony sensor
But as I said on the Nikon thread ‘we’ aren’t the only camera buyers, in fact we’re just a vocal minority, for the vast majority of people who’d be interested in this camera, it will vastly exceed their requirements and expectations

It’ll outsell the Nikon Z6 at the rate of 2:1 and it’ll also outsell the vastly superior Sony mirrorless cameras too. But that’s capitalism for you.

For me, (glass half full) its launched with a bunch of what appear to be first class lenses, the only innovation is the new control ring and the ability to drop in an Nd filter (great for the videographers). I’m guessing the dual pixel AF is next gen and could well be closer to Sony standards, better than the Nikon Z though.

Everything else appears to be a continuation of Canons current tech:

Sensor from 5dIV
Screen from 6dII
IBIS from M series

But for me, the b*****d child of the 5dIV and M5 is plenty of camera for most users, it’ll not attract the 5d wedding photographers, but it will attract 90% of 5d buyers and a whole raft of other people.
 
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jonneymendoza said:
Specs are shocking.are Nikon and canon purposely trying to give Sony the crown?

If Sony is watching this.all they need to do Is announced there a7s3 with flip out screen and 4k60 on a A9 body for around 3 grand and this canikon announcement will be dead
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Canon won’t lose their crown, not for the foreseeable future anyway.
 
jonneymendoza said:
They will in the FF mirrorless market
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They don’t have a crown in the FF mirrorless market to lose ;)

But I’ll bet they’ll be the top seller or 2nd place by the end of next year, not bad from a standing start. :cool:

Of course you’ll put the negative spin on that, but you keep ignoring the fact that Canon are already the no1 mirrorless Camera manufacturer worldwide. :thinking:
 
Maybe it depends who is presenting the numbers, number of sales or money raked in. If there's any wiggle room Canon, Nikon or Sony will claim the top spot depending upon the criteria they use. I do think it's a shame that the best product doesn't necessarily end up the best selling product.
 
woof woof said:
Maybe it depends who is presenting the numbers, number of sales or money raked in. If there's any wiggle room Canon, Nikon or Sony will claim the top spot depending upon the criteria they use. I do think it's a shame that the best product doesn't necessarily end up the best selling product.
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But that’s exactly how markets work, the best selling car ever is the Toyota Corolla, no one will pretend it’s the best car by any measure, but it perfectly served the market

There’s no wiggle room with the numbers, Canon ships more mirrorless cameras than anyone else by quite a margin, it’s not an opinion it’s a fact. The only alternative view is that Sony currently sell more in North America*. Which obviously says something very specific about that market. Sony wouldn’t be able to maintain their camera business without selling their sensors to other makers, and Nikon are in long term financial trouble,

* I wouldn’t beat all surprised if that’s about to come to an end.
 
Phil V said:
They don’t have a crown in the FF mirrorless market to lose ;)

But I’ll bet they’ll be the top seller or 2nd place by the end of next year, not bad from a standing start. :cool:

Of course you’ll put the negative spin on that, but you keep ignoring the fact that Canon are already the no1 mirrorless Camera manufacturer worldwide. :thinking:
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They won't outsell the a7mk3 nevermind the other mirrorless FF bodies Sony has.

They may outsell canon though.

At least canon diddnt big up this camera unlike Nikon.

And the glass is much better than Nikon's.

I don't think this is that awesome for vlog because of the lack of Ibis!

It's like canon took two steps forward and then one step back again.

The tech for Ibis is there for anyone to use! you make it sound as if Sony patent it..
 
On the sensor part.i bet Sony overall make more profits from this then canon whole photography market.why? Because actually the current number one mirrorless camera sold is actually an iPhone with Sony sensor :)

Phil V said:
But that’s exactly how markets work, the best selling car ever is the Toyota Corolla, no one will pretend it’s the best car by any measure, but it perfectly served the market

There’s no wiggle room with the numbers, Canon ships more mirrorless cameras than anyone else by quite a margin, it’s not an opinion it’s a fact. The only alternative view is that Sony currently sell more in North America*. Which obviously says something very specific about that market. Sony wouldn’t be able to maintain their camera business without selling their sensors to other makers, and Nikon are in long term financial trouble,

* I wouldn’t beat all surprised if that’s about to come to an end.
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The way I see it (and of course I could be wrong), is it's all marketing to sell more cameras. They've all been do it for years, bring out a product that will sell, bring out an updated product which will also sell, bring out a couple of new models and so the cycle goes on. All the tech companies do it. When Apple first brought out the iPhone it was inferior in camera and video tech (it used vga), I'm not sure it even had Bluetooth. But it sold and sold and sold.
 
Phil V said:
But that’s exactly how markets work, the best selling car ever is the Toyota Corolla, no one will pretend it’s the best car by any measure, but it perfectly served the market

There’s no wiggle room with the numbers, Canon ships more mirrorless cameras than anyone else by quite a margin, it’s not an opinion it’s a fact. The only alternative view is that Sony currently sell more in North America*. Which obviously says something very specific about that market. Sony wouldn’t be able to maintain their camera business without selling their sensors to other makers, and Nikon are in long term financial trouble,

* I wouldn’t beat all surprised if that’s about to come to an end.
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Sorry Phil, I forgot I have to be very very clear when you're involved incase you misunderstand :D

What I clearly meant was that if Canon (or Nikon or Sony if you prefer) sell more cameras than the others they'll claim to be number 1 but if Canon (or Nikon or Sony) sell fewer camera but turnover or make more money they'll claim to be number 1.

And yes, I know how the market works and time after time we see inferior products win out over better products because of the badge or the marketing and that's just the way of things. I know that. But it's still a shame. IMO.
 
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