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Well, if you don't want to plonk down £2k+, I know where you'll be able to get your hands on one.I am impatient to get my hands on a EOS R
Well, if you don't want to plonk down £2k+, I know where you'll be able to get your hands on one.I am impatient to get my hands on a EOS R
agreed i like Thom Hogan and bought 2 of his camera guides,i like to know the ins and outs of what im using,not saying ive read them all but he is extremely thorough and well researchedAbsolutely agreed. But I just feel sometimes that there are so many who are only interested in the headline grabbing novelties. I wish they'd look at how the thing works and hold the manufacturers to task. One fellow I really like is Thom Hogan. Disagree or not but he gets down to the important stuff in a well - reasoned articulate way. If you look at the amount of "comparison sites" ( and even more bafflingly - comparison videos - where you watch text scroll by for 2.5 minutes while crappy music plays in the background ) just list a bunch of specs as you watch ! and the style of reviewing that flows from that mentality it gets very depressing.
...it got boring even discussing this new wave of gear long ago, pity it's 90% of what's discussed on here lately. It'll pass though
Well, if you don't want to plonk down £2k+, I know where you'll be able to get your hands on one.
....As the title of this thread is "Canon FF Mirrorless" and it is new camera gear, what would you expect or prefer this discussion to be about?
Or are you saying that 90% of ALL discussion threads on TalkPhotography is about "new waves of gear"?
I am sick of the s***e talk, you can lap it up all you desire. This thread is one thing, but it's creeping across all threads. You won't have noticed, but I've not been near as bothered on here lately as it is beyond boring. I just happened to pick this thread to say so. So, I'll call it, I'm done with this one, as I don't plan to buy an R. I was semi-interested in them all to start, but c'mon, it's worn well thin.
If these new cameras from Canon and Nikon add enjoyment and functionality to the basic things cameras do and do them a bit better I will maybe buy one of them. Personally, I don't need any fancy new add-ons or innovation in every new release but would be happy with them doing the basic things a camera should do a bit better every time. I'm pretty baffled by internet "reviewers" slagging off Canon, and on this occasion, Nikon, for lacking in innovation.
It seems everyone was having a breakdown over the 5DmIV because it didn't have the headline novelties to appease the iPhone generation. It supposedly wasn't a big enough leap from the III whereas people who actually looked beyond the "wow it's new" stuff saw that the sensor was massively improved ( especially in the latest obsession of being able to pull detail from underexposed shadows), and the AF system which was an quantum leap forward.
We're obsessed with new tricks. Currently the best one is underexposing images and then seeing what they look like pushed 5 stops. It then becomes a big deal and an "essential feature". Wow!
IBIS is a necessity without which we can't take pictures properly. It might be important for some. It doesn't matter to me.
What I want is good ergonomic design, good AF, good lens range, good IQ, ( not necessarily 21 stops of DR ) good customer service and a reliable ( preferably weather - sealed ) product. A manufacturer who does this will win my business over one serving up frothy bells and whistles I will never use or need.
Folk seem to expect some new bit of glitz every year because their phone, or computer, or TV, or something has to be the latest and comes with some meaningless piece of crap they don't need and doesn't work that well.
but I can't praise them for stalling improvements to products because they're focusing on profits.
Step back a bit and see how ridiculous this viewpoint is.
To ‘focus on profits’ they need to sell cameras, to sell cameras they have to offer what people* want. If they don’t sell what people want, they’ll go out of business. No one sets out to produce mediocre products.
My expectations are those I outlined in my post above. I do not believe competitors fulfil these. You might disagree and that's fine by me.
Not what I’m saying.Please re-read and re-consider my post. I am criticising reviews which are ill-informed and can only report or react to new additions and fads dictated by the market and not what are to my mind essential functions of a camera. What would you like the 5dIV to have had that it missed. Maybe IBIS or the ability to push shadows 6 stops a bit better?
Fair enough but there is no practical consequences of these differences. To show something that doesn't matter in an attempt to demonstrate a difference is foolish and pointless.
IBIS is as I said maybe important to some, but not to me. I do avoid IS in Canon lenses. I will tell you how I did it. I moved to Fuji which has no IS in most of it’s prime lenses. If IS was crucially important I wouldn’t have done this. Surely you can see that as a reasonable point of view?
It doesn't, but I feel many consumers are involved in chasing some meaningless alleged technological superiority that doesn't make the slightest difference to their photography. It's an exercise in futility.
At the moment the two cameras I feel I might buy next happen to come from Canon and Nikon. I own Fuji and I consider myself to be brand agnostic. I just feel if we're bashing a camera it should bye for the right reasons, and not some unimportant omission.
RE your views on Canon. Of course they're fair enough if that’s your how you see them. I don't have any brand loyalty to one company or another and I'm not even mainly a Canon shooter. I don't know what you shoot but I assume from your unhappiness with their products and your desire to see Canon improve you might be a Canon shooter, otherwise why would you bother?
Maybe you would indicate what Canon has missed that inhibits your actual photography experience and frustrated your creativity. I'd really be interested to know. Also, what brand would meet these and allow you to express yourself photographically in a more satisfying way?
We don’t...I have zero expectation of that but that's where the criticism of Canon stems from, we know they can put out a better product if they want to.
We don’t...
Unless you have some inside information, that’s exactly my point. Ridiculous assumptions based on emotion rather than facts.
The rest of your answer, just read it back... jeez, whataboutery!
:banghead:Correct, we don’t know if Canon could have put out a better product than what they did, however if this is the case, what have Canon R&D been doing these past 5 years while watching Sony / Fuji etc deliver great well praised bodies / lenses?
We can only assume and go on what we have in front of us.
:banghead:
Of course... because the biggest camera manufacturer in the world is staffed by idiots who haven’t got your intellect and understanding of the market.
... what have Canon R&D been doing these past 5 years?
Dual pixel autofocus?
http://learn.usa.canon.com/resources/articles/2017/intro-to-dual-pixel-autofocus.shtml
Blue spectrum refractive optics?
https://petapixel.com/2016/03/10/canons-new-blue-spectrum-refractive-lens-technology-works/
120 megapixels sensor?
https://petapixel.com/2018/03/29/this-is-the-power-of-canons-120mp-camera-sensor/
4,000,000 ISO sensor?
https://petapixel.com/2016/09/13/stargazers-filmed-iso-400000-canon-mh20f-sh/
It appears to me that Canon are investing in some serious R&D. Since they are clearly not putting all of that into every product they make, then we seem to be back to the point where you know better than Canon how to maximise their profits.
We don’t...
Unless you have some inside information, that’s exactly my point. Ridiculous assumptions based on emotion rather than facts.
The rest of your answer, just read it back... jeez, whataboutery!
Dual pixel autofocus?
http://learn.usa.canon.com/resources/articles/2017/intro-to-dual-pixel-autofocus.shtml
Blue spectrum refractive optics?
https://petapixel.com/2016/03/10/canons-new-blue-spectrum-refractive-lens-technology-works/
120 megapixels sensor?
https://petapixel.com/2018/03/29/this-is-the-power-of-canons-120mp-camera-sensor/
4,000,000 ISO sensor?
https://petapixel.com/2016/09/13/stargazers-filmed-iso-400000-canon-mh20f-sh/
It appears to me that Canon are investing in some serious R&D. Since they are clearly not putting all of that into every product they make, then we seem to be back to the point where you know better than Canon how to maximise their profits.
Because they're clearly not a bunch of clueless amateurs who you know more than.What’s the size of the manufacturer got anything to do with what said?
There's no basis for this assumption, you're funny. Of course they can make mistakes - engineering isn't easy. They should have started developing better IBIS years ago, but they thought they didn't need toYou seem to think Canon is the worlds best company, is it not and they can make mistakes.
I suggest you take a look at the last 12 months of Canon’s share prices..... lol
Some people base their buying decisions on specifications and features and not always a brand name.
More emotional illogical nonsense.I never stated that I understand Canon’s marketing logic but surely it doesn’t take a genius to work out Canon have handicapped the Canon R to protect sales of their DSLR lines, do you honestly think the Canon R is the best they could come up with?
I stated earlier, we can only go on what is in front of us, which is the Canon R!
How many are those in the eos R?Dual pixel autofocus?
http://learn.usa.canon.com/resources/articles/2017/intro-to-dual-pixel-autofocus.shtml
Blue spectrum refractive optics?
https://petapixel.com/2016/03/10/canons-new-blue-spectrum-refractive-lens-technology-works/
120 megapixels sensor?
https://petapixel.com/2018/03/29/this-is-the-power-of-canons-120mp-camera-sensor/
4,000,000 ISO sensor?
https://petapixel.com/2016/09/13/stargazers-filmed-iso-400000-canon-mh20f-sh/
It appears to me that Canon are investing in some serious R&D. Since they are clearly not putting all of that into every product they make, then we seem to be back to the point where you know better than Canon how to maximise their profits.
I'd say that's pretty damning of Canon's technical ability if the R is their pinnacle then.
No that's not whataboutery, that was an analogy. You may think Canon's always right because they have the market share but if that's really the case you'd probably be better off buying some of their shares than waiting to pounce when someone questions their decisions.
Everyone chill! lol
lol its 18c this morning here in london but quite windy. This is where IBIS would help!
He's not the only one it seems..... just relax, its only a camera company, its nothing life and death.Logic goes out of the window again...
You clearly have a lack of understanding of my posts.
Y see; here’s the thingHe's not the only one it seems..... just relax, its only a camera company, its nothing life and death.
If you’ve ever seen my responses to a ‘what camera...’ question, you’d know that IMO cameras are about the least important aspect of photography. Photography is about pictures not cameras, and pictures are made from subjects and light, but they’re harder to ‘think’ about - so forums are full of this kind of thread (mostly b****x) from the unthinking.Everyone chill! lol
And Canon have also shown that they can produce a global electronic shuttered sensor (no costly mechanical shutter needed, no rolling-shutter issues, no x-sync problems) with several patents and prototypes shown plus an actual global shutter option (expensive) in the C700 professional video camera. It's sensor tech that will rule the mirrorless world and Canon seems to be leading on this aspect from what we've seen, but who knows what the other tech giants have got up their sleeves.
Sony is the obvious threat and generally credited with the best sensors for image quality, but there's a lot more to it than than ISO-invariance and dynamic range - like power consumption, heat and of course cost - plus they have fingers in a lot of distracting pies like smartphone sensors and numerous other applications.
Canon is focused on making their own camera sensors, presumably saving on cost and certainly enjoying scale economies by using the same basic sensor designs modified to different formats and needs.
The first ‘useful’ post on the features of this camera. Well done StewartApologies if this has already been posted in this thread: I tried searching for it using a few different search terms but got no hits.
Anyway, it's an article titled "Canon EOS R: A deep-dive Q&A session with the Canon engineers", posted on Imaging Resource last week. There are some very interesting observations regarding why Canon made some of the design choices they did, and how those choices will affect overall system performance.
https://www.imaging-resource.com/news/2018/09/15/canon-eos-r-qa-with-the-canon-engineers
I’m sure there’s a market for it, but it’s not worth 36 50mm 1.8 STM’sDPR have some 50mm f1.2 samples...
https://www.dpreview.com/samples/01...tm_medium=marquee&utm_campaign=traffic_source
It may be a nice lens but it's maybe about £1,000 too much for me.
If you’ve ever seen my responses to a ‘what camera...’ question, you’d know that IMO cameras are about the least important aspect of photography. Photography is about pictures not cameras, and pictures are made from subjects and light, but they’re harder to ‘think’ about - so forums are full of this kind of thread (mostly b****x) from the unthinking.
Not only do I not get excited about cameras, I don’t understand the tribalism, or the obsession with camera bells and whistles that these threads are full of.
If you’ve ever seen my responses to a ‘what camera...’ question, you’d know that IMO cameras are about the least important aspect of photography. Photography is about pictures not cameras, and pictures are made from subjects and light, but they’re harder to ‘think’ about - so forums are full of this kind of thread (mostly b****x) from the unthinking.
Not only do I not get excited about cameras, I don’t understand the tribalism, or the obsession with camera bells and whistles that these threads are full of.