Car buyers should have 'long, hard think' about diesel

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42kWh battery on the BMW i3 is supposed to be possible for 225 miles, as is the new Leaf's claim
The new Renault Zoe R110 ZE 40 is also up there and for an hours rapid charge will give you 75% of the battery (claimed). Thats around £25K
Then you've the Jaguar i-pace and Audi E-tron claiming over 300 miles - thats testla territory on distance and price :D

Hyundai Kona could be interesting also

So range is getting there - although for real world mileage drop the claimed by about 25% unless you're really frugal.
 
gman said:
I can't for the life of me remember and slightly different, but I do recall a newish car which can use the heat from the engine bay or something to keep the cabin warm for something like 15 minutes after the engine is turned off. Possibly one of the flagship German makes but can't remember.
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I just came across where I had heard this and it wasn't a new car but a 12 year old 2006 BMW 760LI. Some amount of tech in that car considering when it was launched over 15 years ago.
 
I was at Telford services the other day. Seems if you own a Tesla, you're on to a winner there.
 
wuyanxu said:
How much range will your hybrid engine car give us? The future is tiny motorbike engine range extender in an EV for those people who must produce tail pipe emissions. The 2040 ban is rumoured to require 50 miles zero emission range, unless you put a battery size of almost whole gen1 Leaf EV in there, you'd be hard pushed to achieve that range by engineering a traditional hybrid.
(8.6kWh in the Golf GTE to achieve 25 miles of EV range, 19kWh is likely required to achieve 50 miles of EV range. In comparison, Hyundai Ioniq battery EV 30kWh can achieve 100+ miles of range)
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Ford are currently testing EV transit vans with a 1.0 Ecoboost engine powering a generator to recharge the battery. That already has a 31 mile range so by 2040 should easily make 50 miles.
It seems the range of Ev's hasn't progressed that much. In 1998 Ford launched an EV Ranger pick up truck that had a 65 mile range, it is only now we are seeing cars with greater range.
 
Does anyone know roughly what the average battery weight to range ratio is?
 
nilagin said:
Ford are currently testing EV transit vans with a 1.0 Ecoboost engine powering a generator to recharge the battery. That already has a 31 mile range so by 2040 should easily make 50 miles.
It seems the range of Ev's hasn't progressed that much. In 1998 Ford launched an EV Ranger pick up truck that had a 65 mile range, it is only now we are seeing cars with greater range.
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The parcel delivery van is a perfect candidate for electrification. It spends a lot of its time driving in city traffic. The diesel noise also disturb quiet neighbourhoods.

Was that 1998 electric pick up ever put to mass production? How many was made? How much to buy one? Is the 65 miles range winter range with heater blasting? The 2011 Nissan Leaf can do 65 miles in winter with heater blasting. It is mass produced and from 2013, produced in many factories around the world. 2016 saw 40kWh Renault Zoe, quoting 250 NEDC miles (ha!) at an affordable price.
Same can be said on any mild hybrid today, in comparison to 1997 Toyota Prius.

In fact, Toyota managed to do hybrid with high reliability. I can't imagine Ford Powershift will become more reliable with a hybrid engine ;)
 
The BMW i4 that is proposed to come in 2021 looks very interesting as are the comments being made by BMW that they will electrify more "normal" looking cars and may offer different battery packs for the same car depending on user requirements and costs that the user will pay.They are also fully aware that range is going up but needs to be better (in some cases, depending on use, charging facilities etc) Plus they may continue to create weird looking things like the i3 to complement more traditional looking models.
 
wuyanxu said:
The parcel delivery van is a perfect candidate for electrification. It spends a lot of its time driving in city traffic. The diesel noise also disturb quiet neighbourhoods.

Was that 1998 electric pick up ever put to mass production? How many was made? How much to buy one? Is the 65 miles range winter range with heater blasting? The 2011 Nissan Leaf can do 65 miles in winter with heater blasting.
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Modern diesels aren't much noisier than petrol.
The pick up was available for mass production but only 1500 were ever sold.
No idea what the range would have been with the heater blasting, but then that was 1998 and a 2011 Leaf can manage little more, 13 years later.
 
nilagin said:
Modern diesels aren't much noisier than petrol.
The pick up was available for mass production but only 1500 were ever sold.
No idea what the range would have been with the heater blasting, but then that was 1998 and a 2011 Leaf can manage little more, 13 years later.
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Which is why I cant see EVs dominating the market in the short term, it's the battery technology that's holding them back, unless of course someone can really find a way to store electricity more efficiently than what we have at present.
 
Diesel and petrol ban should come much faster, say MPs

A ban on sales of new petrol and diesel cars should be brought forward by eight years to 2032, MPs have said.

Some European countries, including Denmark, Germany and Ireland, plan to ban sales of new petrol and diesel cars from 2030, ten years ahead of the UK.


https://www.bbc.com/news/business-45899580
 
fine. if 14 years isnt long enough to iron out all the issues i think we have bigger problems.

in the meantime demand for new diesel seems to be rising. at least my new company keeps getting delayed.
 
Mr Bump said:
Diesel and petrol ban should come much faster, say MPs

A ban on sales of new petrol and diesel cars should be brought forward by eight years to 2032, MPs have said.

Some European countries, including Denmark, Germany and Ireland, plan to ban sales of new petrol and diesel cars from 2030, ten years ahead of the UK.


https://www.bbc.com/news/business-45899580
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Easy to bring in a law which bans something when the banning of said item has no effect on your way of life.
 
Mr Bump said:
Diesel and petrol ban should come much faster, say MPs

A ban on sales of new petrol and diesel cars should be brought forward by eight years to 2032, MPs have said.

Some European countries, including Denmark, Germany and Ireland, plan to ban sales of new petrol and diesel cars from 2030, ten years ahead of the UK.


https://www.bbc.com/news/business-45899580
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If other European countries plan to ban the sales earlier, the UK won't need to ban anything.
 
nilagin said:
If other European countries plan to ban the sales earlier, the UK won't need to ban anything.
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or as per usual we will be the laughing stock of europe where they dump all the crap they can't sell in their own country the germans will love that.
 
Mr Bump said:
or as per usual we will be the laughing stock of europe where they dump all the crap they can't sell in their own country the germans will love that.
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Cheap BMW's for the masses, thats pretty considerate, considering the beetle is being discontinued.
The German chancellors dream of a peoples car has finally come to fruition in the UK (y)

Best of all ? the near side and middle lanes will largely remain empty (y)
 
Mr Bump said:
or as per usual we will be the laughing stock of europe where they dump all the crap they can't sell in their own country the germans will love that.
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Manufacturers are unlikely to be developing and manufacturing engines just for one market. If other large markets are only allowing Ev's then only EV cars will be developed.
 
Love to know where the government will recoup the ridiculous amount of tax revenue they currently enjoy from fuel tax.
 
neil_g said:
Like I said much much earlier in the thread, you'd have to be naive if anyone thinks there won't be some sort of levy on electric cars or the supply of juice.
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Indeed.
My thoughts are that the ban will be put back...and put back...and put back ...
 
Serious question, the earth has been around for billions of years, motor vehicles for about 130 years
The earth has gone through many climate changes, cars have only become affordable to the masses for probably
50 years and yet it seems they they alone are the cause of all the problems we have today
No mention is made of the pollution churned out by industry and various other causes
So do we think banning sales of a few cars in this country will really make that much of a difference ?
You can bet that many other countries won't follow suit
 
Gremlin said:
the earth has been around for billions of years, motor vehicles for about 130 years
The earth has gone through many climate changes, cars have only become affordable to the masses for probably
50 years
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So you see the Earth actually wanted us to drive cars, otherwise why on earth would it have turned the dinosaurs into fuel?
65 million years .. Gone but not forgotten (y)
 
Gremlin said:
Serious question, the earth has been around for billions of years, motor vehicles for about 130 years
The earth has gone through many climate changes, cars have only become affordable to the masses for probably
50 years and yet it seems they they alone are the cause of all the problems we have today
No mention is made of the pollution churned out by industry and various other causes
So do we think banning sales of a few cars in this country will really make that much of a difference ?
You can bet that many other countries won't follow suit
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I've mentioned the massive pollution issues regarding the sourcing of battery materials. The whole irony doesn't seem to sink in for those claiming electric cars are somehow better for the environment however.
 
neil_g said:
I've mentioned the massive pollution issues regarding the sourcing of battery materials. The whole irony doesn't seem to sink in for those claiming electric cars are somehow better for the environment however.
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and the next problem looming is how to dispose of said batteries once they are no longer usable
 
Gremlin said:
and the next problem looming is how to dispose of said batteries once they are no longer usable
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Put them back in the holes that were dug to mine the materials and bury them (y)
 
Cobra said:
Put them back in the holes that were dug to mine the materials and bury them (y)
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Does anyone else feel that to cure today's supposed problems we are just creating more problems for the future
and then in a few years time when everyone has gone electric they will find another problem and so it goes on and on and on
 
The sooner the most destructive species (so far!) on Earth goes extinct, the better for the planet - as long as it's in more than 50 years that the extinction starts...
 
andy700 said:
How on earth can any sane petrolhead think about diesel or electric when there are these around?
How much is a Nissan Leaf?

Get yourself one of these, you will never be depressed again.

https://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201810051227032?radius=1500&sort=price-asc&advertising-location=at_cars&make=FORD&fuel-type=Petrol&postcode=m403sb&onesearchad=Used&onesearchad=Nearly New&onesearchad=New&model=MUSTANG&transmission=Manual&page=1
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Don't tempt me. :p

Gremlin said:
Does anyone else feel that to cure today's supposed problems we are just creating more problems for the future
and then in a few years time when everyone has gone electric they will find another problem and so it goes on and on and on
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That's likely to be the case. As for your earlier comment, perhaps it's because I don't have a TV, but I get the impression that there area lot of different areas coming under pressure over climate change, however cars are the main area that 'ordinary' people can make a difference in hence the messages being sent.
 
viv1969 said:
Well, the only Telford services, ;) but yes, Shifnal turnoff on the M54.
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Our friends live in Shiftnal but I've not used them in a while because they were very expensive, plus there and back in our diesel car was about 1/3 the range so we didn't need to fill ;)
 
neil_g said:
Fugly.

:)
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Those were - the new ones are much nicer.

There was a company at Classic Lemans this year advertising converting old cars into electric. They'd even packaged the engine bay to look like an old engine. Looked really good.
 
Byker28i said:
Our friends live in Shiftnal but I've not used them in a while because they were very expensive, plus there and back in our diesel car was about 1/3 the range so we didn't need to fill ;)
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They are a bit rubbish, to be fair.
Unless you have a Tesla, that is. You'd have to pretty unlucky to rock up at the same time as 6 other Tesla drivers! :ROFLMAO:
 
There's quite a lot of testla's our way. I see a lot on the daily M4 commute, 6-8 maybe, more than other EV's.

I saw 3 Kia stingers around Haverford West last week, I found that unusual as I haven't seen many others
 
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