Cheap light meters?

cardiff_gareth

cardiff_gareth

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Gareth
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I've seen Mr Heaton uses a Sekonic light meter that when I've looked online, isn't the cheapest. My Bronica ETRSi came with the AE prism finder II which I haven't used yet as I only got the camera and all last night and the battery was dead so the new one is coming tomorrow. I think I'd rather use it with a WLF that it would have come with when new.

If I choose to do this and buy a WLF, then is there a cheaper alternative to work out exposure rather than the Sekonic?

I've got this light meter for studio work but I doubt it's compatible for pointing at a scene?!

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The spec from your link says incident and reflected, ambient light. On that basis, it should work. But I don't know the meter.
 
Or a Sekonic Twinmate, nice and simple so even I can use it.
 
cardiff_gareth said:
I can just move the dome over and point it at the landscape on front of the camera and take a reading? I thought the subject would be too far away to get an accurate reading?
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It's the same principle as using TTL non spot metering. The only difference the distance makes is how much is included.
 
StephenM said:
It's the same principle as using TTL non spot metering. The only difference the distance makes is how much is included.
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I had thought that process myself but then I thought a 15mm super wide would capture more light than a 300mm so the exposure would fluctuate. Given the dome is capturing a much more larger area I thought it would of been well out?!
 
cardiff_gareth said:
Thanks for that link ;)
So for reflected light I can just move the dome over and point it at the landscape on front of the camera and take a reading? I thought the subject would be too far away to get an accurate reading?
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Yes, this is how all hand-held meters work in reflected mode (except a few expensive spot meters that have lenses and viewfinders). Looks like this one meters 'within a 40 field of view', which I think means a 40 degree angle of view, about what you'd get with a 50mm lens (horizontally in landscape mode) on full frame 35mm. It's just an average reading. You also have the option of leaving the dome over the sensor and metering the light source instead in incident mode.
 
cardiff_gareth said:
I had thought that process myself but then I thought a 15mm super wide would capture more light than a 300mm so the exposure would fluctuate. Given the dome is capturing a much more larger area I thought it would of been well out?!
Click to expand...

You need to read up on the use and advantages of incident light readings.
They are universally used in the film industry as they lock the tone values so much more accurately.
They measure the light falling on the subject rater than reflected from it.
To use them you point the meter from the direction of the subject toward the camera.
I used them right up to the advent of digital. Providing the light is the same it still works as accurately for distant subjects.

The field of view is immaterial to an incident meter, it is not concerned with the subject.

I still have sekonic and gossen ambient and flash meters I have used such meters since the late 50's
 
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I use my phone. I have a Pentax Spotmeter which I find really useful when slow landscaping, but even then, the phone nails it most of the time. If you do a lot of work where your dynamic range is all over the place, and/or you shoot a lot of slide film, then perhaps it might be worth it. If you're shooting B&W though, you have a lot of room for error.

I do have a saved search for a nice Sekonic, but those prices.... lol...
 
Terrywoodenpic said:
You need to read up on the use and advantages of incident light readings.
They are universally used in the film industry as they lock the tone values so much more accurately.
They measure the light falling on the subject rater than reflected from it.
To use them you point the meter from the direction of the subject toward the camera.
I used them right up to the advent of digital. Providing the light is the same it still works as accurately for distant subjects.

The field of view is immaterial to an incident meter, it is not concerned with the subject.

I still have sekonic and gossen ambient and flash meters I have used such meters since the late 50's
Click to expand...


Thanks. The incident metering where you point it at the camera, I don't k ow how far away from the camera you have to be? I want to mainly shoot landscapes and if I've got to walk into the scene to turn back and take a reading before heading back then the light will have gone hence me thinking now reflected light, ie dome over and point to the scene from in front of camera being the quicker way?

Don't want to appear a noon to meters but I am and want to get it as right as possible!
 
Harlequin565 said:
I use my phone. I have a Pentax Spotmeter which I find really useful when slow landscaping, but even then, the phone nails it most of the time. If you do a lot of work where your dynamic range is all over the place, and/or you shoot a lot of slide film, then perhaps it might be worth it. If you're shooting B&W though, you have a lot of room for error.

I do have a saved search for a nice Sekonic, but those prices.... lol...
Click to expand...

I have an Sp1000 also with a 55mm Takumar lens. What app are you using for the camera? My Huawei doesn't do aperture in Pro mode but I can do ISO and shutter! Go figure!
 
cardiff_gareth said:
Thanks for that link ;)
So for reflected light I can just move the dome over and point it at the landscape on front of the camera and take a reading? I thought the subject would be too far away to get an accurate reading?
Click to expand...

Meter off an area close to hand that resembles a similar light value that you want to capture in the distance.....alternatively, cheaper and arguarbly better, leave the meter in your kit bag, learn sunny F/16 and most importantly don't get too hooked up over exposure......Learn the principles, quickly assess the light levels of the scene, set the shutter speed/ aperture and take the shot but don't over think it.......that installs doubt!

Practice, find a metering method that works for you and stick with it egardless of what others suggest or do.

FWIW, when I do use a meter, it is rare that I'll opt for reflective metering, much prefering incident unless measuring reflective from palm of hand and opening a stop to give basically the equivalent of an incident reading.
 
cardiff_gareth said:
I have an Sp1000 also with a 55mm Takumar lens. What app are you using for the camera? My Huawei doesn't do aperture in Pro mode but I can do ISO and shutter! Go figure!
Click to expand...

This is the app. It's on the Apple store, but once you know what the icon looks like I guess you can search for it on your store... Free, but I paid the pound to remove ads.
apps.apple.com

‎Photo Light & Exposure Meter

‎A light meter that is always with you! It will help you understand how to take pictures correctly and allow you to experiment with the settings in real time. Nothing extra. Large and comfortable controls. And everything is in full view. Capabilities: - Selection of optimal shooting values in rea…
apps.apple.com
 
cardiff_gareth said:
want to get it as right as possible!
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You will!

but don't force it, nor try to 'perfect it' ........find a method that works for you ( ie practice some of the methods offered) , then be confident in your choice and more imprtantly, confident when you trigger the shutter!
 
If you're on Android then have a look at this one. I use it and have found it accurate enough for print film so far. Not sure what it's like on incident light and I'm not aware it works on flash, but used as a standard point and measure light meter, it's got to be one of the best couple of quid I've spent (I paid for the ad free version with full exposure comp functionality after trying the free version and liking it). https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.dq.fotometroNa&hl=en_GB&gl=US

It gives an old-fashioned looking display of f numbers against various shutter speeds within the exposure range, and for reflected light you can see what your aiming your phone's camera at by looking at the image in the middle of the 'mock meter' display, and also zoom in on it using the lever at the bottom of the 'meter' - a spot metering type function. Anyway, what do you want for $2?! ;)
 
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cardiff_gareth said:
I've got this light meter for studio work but I doubt it's compatible for pointing at a scene?!
Click to expand...

It reads light levels so it will do the job!

EDIT. ALL light meters, be it TTL, handheld or app give the photographer a guide, it is upto the tog to understand the principles of how light interacts with film and what effects will be registered when the exposure is made.


The lightmeter does not automatically give you the correct exposure .....It is you, the tog, that does that!

Treat the meter like an advisor......You can choose to accept or decline the advice ;)
 
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Asha said:
Treat the meter like an advisor......You can choose to accept or decline the advice ;)
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Or sack the advisor and try another one if you (or your phone) don't get on with them. For £1 or £2 a go it hopefully shouldn't break the bank, or end in an employment tribunal either! ;)
 
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Back in the 80s and 90s I used to be known in the local photojournalism community as the light meter guy. I shot thousands of rolls of film in those days and almost every one of them started with an incident light reading.

You probably already know all this, but metering light levels comes in 2 forms - incident and reflected. An incident reading measures the light falling on the subject. A reflective reading measures the the light reflected off the entire scene.

All in-camera light meters use some form of reflective averaging. Modern cameras have some pretty sophisticated algorithms that work the averaging. Way better than the old film cameras from back in my day. (And BTW, that Bronica is a wonderful old camera.) Even with modern averaging, a reflective reading works best when the scene is fairly evenly lit. If your subject is backlit or you have a very bright background or very dark background, that will cause problems with your reflective reading.

Incident meters use a translucent dome to measure the light actually falling on that dome. If you're taking, say, a backlit portrait, you hold the meter in front of the subject's face and read the light falling there, expose for that and let the background go where it may.

Since you're using a camera built in the late 70s, early 80s, you might think about getting a used meter from that period. If you don't mind analog, the Gossen Luna Pro is bulletproof and can be had on Ebay for $20-30.

In the 80s, we started seeing digital meters. The Minolta Flashmeters and Autometers were the ones to have at the time. If you're looking at Flashmeters, don't buy anything earlier than a IV. I-III used 6 odd button-sized batteries that were hard to find, hard to replace on the fly and expensive. Took all the fun out of those meters.

1605219927631.png

My favorites, from left to right. Gossen Luna Pro, Minolta Flashmeter IV, Autometer IIIF, Autometer VF. (I've owned all of these meters and a few more. I still own a Flashmeter IV and the last time I used it was on Monday.) These pictures came off Ebay US. None of the meters pictured were selling for more than $100.
 
drsilver said:
Back in the 80s and 90s I used to be known in the local photojournalism community as the light meter guy. I shot thousands of rolls of film in those days and almost every one of them started with an incident light reading.

You probably already know all this, but metering light levels comes in 2 forms - incident and reflected. An incident reading measures the light falling on the subject. A reflective reading measures the the light reflected off the entire scene.

All in-camera light meters use some form of reflective averaging. Modern cameras have some pretty sophisticated algorithms that work the averaging. Way better than the old film cameras from back in my day. (And BTW, that Bronica is a wonderful old camera.) Even with modern averaging, a reflective reading works best when the scene is fairly evenly lit. If your subject is backlit or you have a very bright background or very dark background, that will cause problems with your reflective reading.

Incident meters use a translucent dome to measure the light actually falling on that dome. If you're taking, say, a backlit portrait, you hold the meter in front of the subject's face and read the light falling there, expose for that and let the background go where it may.

Since you're using a camera built in the late 70s, early 80s, you might think about getting a used meter from that period. If you don't mind analog, the Gossen Luna Pro is bulletproof and can be had on Ebay for $20-30.

In the 80s, we started seeing digital meters. The Minolta Flashmeters and Autometers were the ones to have at the time. If you're looking at Flashmeters, don't buy anything earlier than a IV. I-III used 6 odd button-sized batteries that were hard to find, hard to replace on the fly and expensive. Took all the fun out of those meters.

View attachment 298693

My favorites, from left to right. Gossen Luna Pro, Minolta Flashmeter IV, Autometer IIIF, Autometer VF. (I've owned all of these meters and a few more. I still own a Flashmeter IV and the last time I used it was on Monday.) These pictures came off Ebay US. None of the meters pictured were selling for more than $100.
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Very well explained (y)

I've tried several meters over the years from Westons through to Sekonic L758

I now have two which are small, light and perfect in their use ....L308S, and my prefered Lunasix 3
 
Try using an app on your phone. I use myLightMeter and have used it with slide film and it’s always right, providing your metering off the correct surface. I usually meter off my hand, shading it with my body for dark shadows and holding it in full sunlight for the highlights. It’s usually only a few stops difference and you can guess the in between pretty easily.
 
I have three Gossen LunaSix meters, I had to buy three of them (second hand) to get one that was accurate, then I had the better of the remaining two recalibrated. The downside is that they use an old mercury type battery that's now obsolete (due to the toxicity of mercury). There are some alternatives, including air cells which deliver the right voltage consistently enough, but only last a few months (and aren't that cheap either!), and voltage/size adaptors to enable the use of silver oxide batteries (I have one of those for mine).

The Lunasix is very good, but it depends where you point it for reflected light (as with any reflected light meter, but at least I can see what I'm pointing my phone app at), plus it's something else for me to carry. My mobile phone goes with me all the time if I leave the house, so it makes more sense for me to take that and leave the lightmeter at home to save weight, unless I'm on an F&C meet up or other such dedicated photography trip. Sadly, convenience and functionality often wins out over specialism.
 
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I have the same model of Sekonic as Mr Heaton. But if I find I've left it in a different camera bag, I'm fairly happy to use my iphone. The app I have on the iPhone is called "Pocket Light Meter" and I've set it to give an exposure correction of 1/3rd EV so that it matches against the Sekonic. Having said that 1/3 EV isn't really going to matter unless you're shooting slide film.
 
Asha said:
Very well explained (y)

I've tried several meters over the years from Westons through to Sekonic L758

I now have two which are small, light and perfect in their use ....L308S, and my prefered Lunasix 3
Click to expand...
So you like those little Sekonics? I been looking at those. My Minolta meter is pretty huge.
 
drsilver said:
So you like those little Sekonics? I been looking at those. My Minolta meter is pretty huge.
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As I mentioned above, they are simply a guide to light levels , and for a lot of time I don’t need to use them.
Nonetheless I always have one with me for when light diminishes and assessment of values by eye becomes more of a challenge.

Much as I prefer the lunasix for a number of reasons, the l308s is very light, small, very simple to use without complicated menus , and uses just one readily available AA battery.

1/2 or 1/3 stop increments too.

Yes I would say, based on its attributes mentioned above, the best digital meter that I’ve done across so far.
Put it this way, I have no intention in parting with it. ;)
 
For incident light, you just need the same light to fall on the dome as the subject, which means the dome (like the subject) faces the camera.

With reflected light readings, exact direction and angle of view come in. After I saw the difference in reading depending on whether the meter was held level or pointed down slightly for landscape I gave up on it. For the last 50 odd years I've stuck the palm of my hand in the same sunlight as the subject, taken a reading and opened up one stop. If you think about it, you'll realise that this reading depends only on the amount of light, and is therefore an incident method.
 
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Mr Badger said:
I have three Gossen LunaSix meters, I had to buy three of them (second hand) to get one that was accurate, then I had the better of the remaining two recalibrated.
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Either I've been very lucky, or you very unlucky. The five Lunasixes (Lunapro in America, I think) I have agree.
 
cardiff_gareth said:
Thanks. The incident metering where you point it at the camera, I don't k ow how far away from the camera you have to be? I want to mainly shoot landscapes and if I've got to walk into the scene to turn back and take a reading before heading back then the light will have gone hence me thinking now reflected light, ie dome over and point to the scene from in front of camera being the quicker way?

Don't want to appear a noon to meters but I am and want to get it as right as possible!
Click to expand...


It does not matter where you are, relative to the landscape, providing you are not in the shade.
Sunlight will be identical.

If a landscape is lit by a mix of sun and cloud cover take readings for both as the light changes. However the sunlight reading will still control the highlights for the scene. and would be the preferred reading for transparency use.
 
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I had a Minolta Autometer III, one drawback was it didn't have a proper off switch.
So I inserted a small piece of card between the battery and terminal to stop the battery draining.
Funny little round batteries not readily available like the usual AA type.
 
StephenM said:
For incident light, you just need the same light to fall on the dome as the subject, which means the dome (like the subject) faces the camera.

With reflected light readings, exact direction and angle of view come in. After I saw the difference in reading depending on whether the meter was held level or pointed down slightly for landscape I gave up on it. For the last 50 odd years I've stuck the palm of my hand in the same sunlight as the subject, taken a reading and opened up one stop. If you think about it, you'll realise that this reading depends only on the amount of light, and is therefore an incident method.
Click to expand...

Absolutely I too have used the hand method with reflected light meters.

For laypeople the incident light method of setting exposres is counter intuitive and they have trouble getting their headed round how it works. However it's the most accurate and most consistent method to use. Nearly all remaining high end exposure meters use it as the measuring system. The exception being spot meters, which are useful for measuring brightness ranges and for pegging an individual tone over a series of images.
 
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cardiff_gareth said:
I've seen Mr Heaton uses a Sekonic light meter that when I've looked online, isn't the cheapest. My Bronica ETRSi came with the AE prism finder II which I haven't used yet as I only got the camera and all last night and the battery was dead so the new one is coming tomorrow. I think I'd rather use it with a WLF that it would have come with when new.

If I choose to do this and buy a WLF, then is there a cheaper alternative to work out exposure rather than the Sekonic?

I've got this light meter for studio work but I doubt it's compatible for pointing at a scene?!

Redirect Notice

www.google.com
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Gareth, this is well worth a look starting at 37 minutes in.

 
Terrywoodenpic said:
For laypeople the incident light method of setting exposres is counter intuitive and they have trouble getting their headed round how it works
Click to expand...

Lol, this was me until this thread. I've generally used my phone (reflected) and a spotmeter to take readings. When using my (no internal meter) M3, I will take a reading off my hand +1 stop and just use that until the light changes.

So whilst I knew what incident was I never realised the point of it until today. I think I'll still use my spot meter for when I'm going really slow landscape and want to make sure the shadow detail is exposed how I want it, but a small incident meter may find its way into the bag...

Thanks all! (and the OP for posting!)
 
Asha said:
The lightmeter does not automatically give you the correct exposure .....It is you, the tog, that does that!

Treat the meter like an advisor......You can choose to accept or decline the advice
Click to expand...

Indeed as unless old cameras have been checked whose knows if the shutter speed is accurate or even the f stop on lens is what it says, also manufacturing tolerance on film IS0, and there is using old film and fresh film....it can all add up if unlucky, but because of film latitude should only be a problem if a more accurate reading is needed for positive film.
 
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kendo1 said:
A lot of people use their phone. It's normally close enough, especially for B&W
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Probably a lot closer than many of the old meters.
I don't normally carry a mobile & this is still my preferred option!
 
cardiff_gareth said:
I've seen Mr Heaton uses a Sekonic light meter that when I've looked online, isn't the cheapest. My Bronica ETRSi came with the AE prism finder II which I haven't used yet as I only got the camera and all last night and the battery was dead so the new one is coming tomorrow. I think I'd rather use it with a WLF that it would have come with when new.

If I choose to do this and buy a WLF, then is there a cheaper alternative to work out exposure rather than the Sekonic?

I've got this light meter for studio work but I doubt it's compatible for pointing at a scene?!

Redirect Notice

www.google.com
Click to expand...
I have both a Polaris and a Sekonic L-308S meter. They are functionally equivalent. The Sekonic is better built but the Polaris has also been very reliable. One advantage of the Polaris is that there is a 10 degree spot attachment for it if you are into that degree of control. I just use the meters in incident mode mainly as I previously had a Weston meter with invacone, the incident metering attachment, and used it for years in incident mode mainly exposing slide film. The only cameras I use with built in meters, in preference to hand held, are my EOS 3 and 6D, even though some other film cameras I own have TTL or other metering options.
 
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