Cloning

droj

droj

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droj
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I repeatedly see on these forums talk about cloning, including recommendations to 'clone something out'. My point here isn't about ethics but about discipline (pursuance of craft). If something isn't wanted in a photograph, why is it there in the first place? Surely an addiction to processing toys is no excuse for sloppy work?
 
Sometimes its not possible to have everything perfect every time and one thing that can be cloned out or healed could make the image better.

If you're cloning out 20% of the frame then maybe there's a problem. If it's a lamppost that's ruining the background then cool.

Each to their own at the end of the day.
 
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DBT85 said:
Sometimes its not possible to have everything perfect every time and one thing that can be cloned out or healed could make the image better.

If you're cloning out 20% of the frame then maybe there's a problem. If it's a lamppost that's ruining the background then cool.

Each to their own at the end of the day.
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A portrait session with a scab from a cut. Not a permanent feature but not sure if you'd want it forever on a pic.
 
As Darren has said it's not about being sloppy, just simply it's not always possible to avoid every distraction or item that you don't want in frame I see nothing at all wrong in removing un-desirable elements from frame in post production if I'm not able to avoid them at the time of shooting, in addition to this while I'll always aim for perfection it's simply not always possible to notice every last little bit of the scene even though we try
 
For years artists (painters) have recorded scenes by selectively leaving out, adding or moving picture elements.

The use of the clone tool simply allows photographers to exercise the same degree of creativity and selectivity.

It's about making a picture, as opposed to just taking a picture.
 
What an absolutely ridiculous (and I find slightly offensive) thing to say. To me it shows 'sloppiness' in understanding the circumstances many pictures are taken in where it's not possible to omit certain features. Oh to be perfect eh:rolleyes:
 
droj said:
I repeatedly see on these forums talk about cloning, including recommendations to 'clone something out'. My point here isn't about ethics but about discipline (pursuance of craft). If something isn't wanted in a photograph, why is it there in the first place? Surely an addiction to processing toys is no excuse for sloppy work?
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Do you belong to a camera club? I have to ask.
 
droj said:
I repeatedly see on these forums talk about cloning, including recommendations to 'clone something out'. My point here isn't about ethics but about discipline (pursuance of craft). If something isn't wanted in a photograph, why is it there in the first place? Surely an addiction to processing toys is no excuse for sloppy work?
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Toys? What are 'processing toys'?
 
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The majority of us have taken a shot and during processing noticed and unwanted blemish dust spot or an unwanted object in the background. The clone tool is invaluable in correcting the errors/ oversights.
 
sbowler579 said:
The majority of users on here would have edited that image just as you did Mathew(y)
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Well to be fair the majority of members would likely have been able to get though the tiny gate/turnstile type arrangement the local council had put in place so wouldn't have been stuck on the outside shooting in :p sadly I couldn't as I was/am too fat...but working on that now (y)
 
MWHCVT said:
Well to be fair the majority of members would likely have been able to get though the tiny gate/turnstile type arrangement the local council had put in place so wouldn't have been stuck on the outside shooting in :p sadly I couldn't as I was/am too fat...but working on that now (y)
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You need to get a pair of step ladders as a Christmas pressy, problem solved.:)(y)
 
sbowler579 said:
You need to get a pair of step ladders as a Christmas pressy, problem solved.:)(y)
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I think chain saw would be better :p cut my own way through the Fence :LOL: though more seriously I'm currently 80 days into a fairly large change of diet, and it's going well, don't have a figure for what I've lost but already having to but smaller clothes so hopefully in a couple of years climbing over fences or squeezing through fences shouldn't be an issue :)
 
Matthew I glanced at your poppies thread, and it made me see RED. I don't think you should be allowed to clone people out, at least not without their written permission.
jon ryan said:
Yes, I've heard of Photoshop. What makes you think it's a toy?
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Many of the things that it gets used for.
ST4 said:
I had a loom at your Flickr stream btw. It made my day.
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That's encouraging.
 
droj said:
Matthew I glanced at your poppies thread, and it made me see RED. I don't think you should be allowed to clone people out, at least not without their written permission.
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Why do you think you need written permission to clone a person out of a shot taken in a public place?

jon ryan said: ↑
Yes, I've heard of Photoshop. What makes you think it's a toy?
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droj said: Many of the things that it gets used for.
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Are there things it should be used for?
 
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jon ryan said:
Why do you think you need written permission to clone a person out of a shot taken in a public place?
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I thought it was obvious - you'd be performing an unsought act upon a person. Regardless of place. Akin to murder, really, along with removal of the corpses. Only the poppies remained, and some of them were ... well, remember Dolly the Sheep.
 
droj said:
Matthew I glanced at your poppies thread, and it made me see RED. I don't think you should be allowed to clone people out, at least not without their written permission.
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:LOL: :LOL: :LOL: Would you mind if I cloned you out :p

I just don't get why you feel so strongly about removing distractions...

droj said:
I thought it was obvious - you'd be performing an unsought act upon a person. Regardless of place. Akin to murder, really, along with removal of the corpses. Only the poppies remained, and some of them were ... well, remember Dolly the Sheep.
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:LOL: so I'm a Photographic Murderer...I prefer to be seen as a Digital Assassin
 
The next time I take an image of a bird I'll ask it to move up a few branches to improve the composition
 
ST4 said:
Do you drink a lot of alcohol?
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Gallons, Steve - I start at breakfast-time.
BillN_33 said:
The next time I take an image of a bird I'll ask it to move up a few branches to improve the composition
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That's utterly irrelevant to the thread, Bill. Start again.

It's funny how people get so uppity. Yes I was being provocative but it was a sensible question. And what happens? Jumpy egos hopping about like sand-fleas. I think that Shaheed's has been the only rational reply so far.
 
Brian G said:
It's about making a picture, as opposed to just taking a picture.
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That's b*****ks, you're just sounding off. I was suggesting that a bit more attention at the taking stage would preclude being over-fiddly at a further stage of the making. I'm no stranger to craft, and economy of means is a good target for any craftsperson, and will evidence in the finished work.
 
droj said:
Gallons, Steve - I start at breakfast-time.

That's utterly irrelevant to the thread, Bill. Start again.

It's funny how people get so uppity. Yes I was being provocative but it was a sensible question. And what happens? Jumpy egos hopping about like sand-fleas. I think that Shaheed's has been the only rational reply so far.
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Well it's not a case of being uppity, let face you were the one that suggested removing people from frame were akin to murder...talk about the biggest over reaction of all time :LOL: do you think cloning or otherwise removing of distracting elements from frame is something that is purely from the digital age?

It's simply artistic licence at work
 
I have to say I'm with the majority on here.

I view post processing as part of the image making process. I shoot in raw. Basic adjustments in LR, polish in Photoshop and finish off on Lightroom.

Your initial premise is that everything should be right in camera. Mine is that the final image should be as good as it can be. You obviously need to start with a good image.

All I'd say is judge the results and not the process as isn't it all about the final picture anyway?

I clone with impunity too!

S
 
MWHCVT said:
It's simply artistic licence at work
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Dear Matthew, with a regretful sigh, on the basis of having seen your poppies images, I don't think that you know what artistic means. i wouldn't've said this, but it was you who invoked the term.

If you want to engage in discussion, that's fine. But if you want to use terms, define them. That's a basic. Anything less voids the discussion.
 
Sir SR said:
Your initial premise is that everything should be right in camera.
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No it wasn't, you're running with the ball. Just that giving full attention at the taking stage is a healthy discipline that many obviously lack. It was a call to arms. Can you tell me that laziness in that arena isn't prevalent?
 
droj said:
What are you miffing about? That's hardly sensible debate. What a non-contribution.
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Nothing about this thread is sensible. Your initial post is a classic troll post - it's daft and obviously inflammatory, especially coming from someone who seems to have been around cameras and photography for a while. You couldn't think that was a reasonable and sensible point to make. Then, well, you're equating cloning to murder... which I think pushed the trolling from the obvious, to the slapping-everyone-in-the-face-bleeding-obvious. :D
 
Wow... Well that was five minutes of my life I'll never get back...

So here you go...I'm not a photographer. I'm a Picturemaker and artist. And for what it's worth, I am also a graphic designer. I bet you just rolled your eyes. I'm sorry, but what a load of pompous, egotistical, moronic and complete typical camera club tosh. My tools are my camera, Lightroom and Photoshop. I shoot raw so that I can manipulate the image in LR and have the most creative control visually as I see it in my head. I use PS to create my textured backgrounds because I can't afford to spend a couple of grand on a single Oliphant background! I also have the luxury of making each piece different. And if I have to clone out a lighting stand leg to achieve the art that I'm making, I'm not going to lose any sleep over it.

Aren't camera clubs just a big playground of a bunch of blokes sitting around and saying 'oh, look at me and what a big lens I've got' and scratch themselves? Tools...

Apologies in advance for the brashness of this post. I'm having an extremely bad day.
 
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As a hobbyst I do not see any problem with cloning and other post processing tools to create my images and meet my "clients" (especially when she is sitting beside when processing some images) expectations.

Much cheaper than employing a make up artist, and easier than smearing vasaline on the front of a lens etc.
 
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droj said:
I thought it was obvious - you'd be performing an unsought act upon a person. Regardless of place. Akin to murder, really, along with removal of the corpses. Only the poppies remained, and some of them were ... well, remember Dolly the Sheep.
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And the winner of the Dumbest Comment on a Photography Forum goes to...

Anyone else noticed how the people who get all snobby and superior about Photoshop tend to be the ones who lack the ability to understand what it's for and how to use it properly? Reminds me of people back in the day who called themselves photographers but had never been in a darkroom.
 
droj said:
That's b*****ks, you're just sounding off. I was suggesting that a bit more attention at the taking stage would preclude being over-fiddly at a further stage of the making. I'm no stranger to craft, and economy of means is a good target for any craftsperson, and will evidence in the finished work.
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I can't see how I thought you meant get most of it right in camera.

You sir are a troll. Of the worst kind.

I'm out.

S
 
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