Concerned mum wants law changed

jamesev said:
Just wondering how easy would it be to search and find the mum on social media and see if she has posted any photos of her child after all she asks the question "Where is that picture of my little girl now?" and she might have posted photos of "her little girl" on t'interweb already.
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See my post #133 . He husband has lots of photos of the mother and child ;)
 
woof woof said:
Nothings working for me but don't worry about it.
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I just searched Lorraine Mcmenemy and she was the first found. She doesn't share except to friends but has shared a post about the issue and made it public. Her cover photo includes the kids face with hers.
 
Dangerous said:
I just searched Lorraine Mcmenemy and she was the first found. She doesn't share except to friends but has shared a post about the issue and made it public. Her cover photo includes the kids face with hers.
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Has anyone called her a paedophile for posting pictures of children yet?
 
I see on her FB page she is a ‘Child Development Officer at Glasgow City Council” whatever that is.
 
sphexx said:
I see on her FB page she is a ‘Child Development Officer at Glasgow City Council” whatever that is.
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I've known a few social workers. Some are very good at their jobs. Others are, shall we say, not well suited to their chosen careers...
:tumbleweed:
 
My daughter posted a comment on her FB which went something like this

Parents these day.

child to mam
Mam, I'm going round to (friends name)

mam to child
ok but text as soon as you get there then every 20 minutes and just before you leave to come home

when she was a child

Daughter to mam
Mam, I'm off the the old quarry in the woods

mam to daughter
ok, tea's at 5, bye.


Sad sign of the times. No wonder kids just play on their phones or ipads often with no parental controls set.
 
I don’t know if anyone else on here is a parent, I imagine they are. However as a photographer and a parent of a 3 year old daughter I side with the mother. She might well have gone over the top BUT I think you should ask permission to take a photo of someone if their going to be the main point of focus and the person is easily identifiable in the photo, especially of children, at least take the photo and approach the person after to show them and ask. If I saw someone taking photos of my daughter without asking and explaining why I think it’s perfectly reasonable to ask to see the photos, ask questions and have them deleted if I wanted.

at the end of the day we’re talking about protecting a child from potential harm. No matter how small the likelihood is that there was nasty intent behind the photos the fact is that for the vast majority of the people photography is a hobby. To be cross at a women for being concerned about her child because it might affect a hobby seems silly to me. She might well be paranoid but considering all the events in the news other the last few years I don’t really blame her
 
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A PS to my post above.

There was something a few years ago and I'm going to be a bit vague on the details as I can't remember, something about the incidence of female paedophiles and it being apparently possibly ignored and/or under reported. They said that perhaps 1 in 3 are female although as we're all humans and possibly all open to the same unfortunate life experiences or biology or other factors that make people along a scale from at one end people sexually interested in appropriately aged persons of the opposite sex to the other end at which things get very dark and unsettling I'd have thought that the incidence of female to male paedophiles may be 50/50? Maybe pictures of children is mainly a male deviancy and maybe females gravitate to something else? The bogus social / health worker examining children or something like that maybe? Maybe the numbers get close to equalling out once all avenues are collated?

Many people I assume have stories about a cousin, aunt or other female family member or family friend.
 
Strange isn't it by making such a fuss she has had to suffer all this verbaige... Not cool.

As for photographing children, This comes up every now and then,
In the UK I can remember a couple of cases, one was someone was upset because someone photographed the remembrance parade through some town and had photographed the air cadets marching,
Another was some 14 year old girl was photographed handing drinks to the cyclists in a race at one of the "feeding station", and the other staff complained about it, the fact that the photographer had photographed them as well was neither here nor there and the cyclists were the main interest, both cases made the newspapers and some photography magazines and to be honest were smoke and mirrors, as pointed out if you are taking part in an organised march / sporting event etc then you need to expect people to be photographing it, If you do not like it do not take part. Simple.

I have probably taken a couple pictures of kids, and the only interest they had to me was photogenic, I have included a copy of them here, one was at an event where they were dressed up as Steampunk and the other was at a monument and just worked on so many levels.. Would I go out of my way to photograph them, no, definately not, but as with the boy and the comic, it was a spontaneous ohh that will make a cracking shot.. End of the day the law regarding photography is the law, and does anyone really want that limiting and us becoming a dictatorial state.

Boy on a Bridge by Tony Taylor, on Flickr

SteamPunk family by Tony Taylor, on Flickr
 
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Ben johns said:
I don’t know if anyone else on here is a parent, I imagine they are. However as a photographer and a parent of a 3 year old daughter I side with the mother. She might well have gone over the top BUT I think you should ask permission to take a photo of someone if their going to be the main point of focus and the person is easily identifiable in the photo, especially of children, at least take the photo and approach the person after to show them and ask. If I saw someone taking photos of my daughter without asking and explaining why I think it’s perfectly reasonable to ask to see the photos, ask questions and have them deleted if I wanted.

at the end of the day we’re talking about protecting a child from potential harm. No matter how small the likelihood is that there was nasty intent behind the photos the fact is that for the vast majority of the people photography is a hobby. To be cross at a women for being concerned about her child because it might affect a hobby seems silly to me. She might well be paranoid but considering all the events in the news other the last few years I don’t really blame her
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Agree 100%
 
Ben johns said:
I don’t know if anyone else on here is a parent, I imagine they are. However as a photographer and a parent of a 3 year old daughter I side with the mother. She might well have gone over the top BUT I think you should ask permission to take a photo of someone if their going to be the main point of focus and the person is easily identifiable in the photo, especially of children, at least take the photo and approach the person after to show them and ask. If I saw someone taking photos of my daughter without asking and explaining why I think it’s perfectly reasonable to ask to see the photos, ask questions and have them deleted if I wanted.

at the end of the day we’re talking about protecting a child from potential harm. No matter how small the likelihood is that there was nasty intent behind the photos the fact is that for the vast majority of the people photography is a hobby. To be cross at a women for being concerned about her child because it might affect a hobby seems silly to me. She might well be paranoid but considering all the events in the news other the last few years I don’t really blame her
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I think it's how you approach situations and deal with them that could make a difference.
 
Ben johns said:
I don’t know if anyone else on here is a parent, I imagine they are. However as a photographer and a parent of a 3 year old daughter I side with the mother. She might well have gone over the top BUT I think you should ask permission to take a photo of someone if their going to be the main point of focus and the person is easily identifiable in the photo, especially of children, at least take the photo and approach the person after to show them and ask. If I saw someone taking photos of my daughter without asking and explaining why I think it’s perfectly reasonable to ask to see the photos, ask questions and have them deleted if I wanted.

at the end of the day we’re talking about protecting a child from potential harm. No matter how small the likelihood is that there was nasty intent behind the photos the fact is that for the vast majority of the people photography is a hobby. To be cross at a women for being concerned about her child because it might affect a hobby seems silly to me. She might well be paranoid but considering all the events in the news other the last few years I don’t really blame her
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I would not take photos of children, who I did not know. If I did post photos of our grandchildren, it would be with their parents permission. I would also make the photos private.
 
Dangerous said:
I've no idea but children don't develop well if wrapped in bubblewrap to shield them from real life.
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I think the media has a lot to do with it. I’m 30 and was given a lot of freedom. Would go out all day with friends without a phone (obviously) and never had a problem. However as a parent now I’m even a bit paranoid! I think the news and social media has played on people’s fears to get views and ratings. There’s so much now about sex offenders that I think it’s hard not to be concerned. Having said that how do we know that the problem has always been the same but since the introduction of technology people are being caught and found out much easier
 
woof woof said:
I think it's how you approach situations and deal with them that could make a difference.
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That’s sort of what I mean. I think you could do a lot to help a situation, even offering to email a copy of the photo or something. I’ve taken photos in public before and been a bit concerned when there are children around. Slightly depressingly I seem to be far less concerned if I’m out with my other half, I do think being a women or being with a women seems to take the edge off people’s fears
 
jonbeeza said:
I would not take photos of children, who I did not know. If I did post photos of our grandchildren, it would be with their parents permission. I would also make the photos private.
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Same. I just don’t understand why people get angry with parents when their not happy about having photos taken of their children. I think some parents probably go straight to 10 right away without first asking but we don’t know if something similar happened to them when they were younger. It’s understandable to be a bit concerned. I was approached once by a man asking if I’d taken a photo of him and I hadn’t actually taken a photo of anything. I showed him the photos I’d taken and he left. He was polite but I don’t know what he would have been like if I actually had taken a photo of him!
 
Ben johns said:
Same. I just don’t understand why people get angry with parents when their not happy about having photos taken of their children. I think some parents probably go straight to 10 right away without first asking but we don’t know if something similar happened to them when they were younger. It’s understandable to be a bit concerned. I was approached once by a man asking if I’d taken a photo of him and I hadn’t actually taken a photo of anything. I showed him the photos I’d taken and he left. He was polite but I don’t know what he would have been like if I actually had taken a photo of him!
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If people do not want photos of their children being taken then the only way the can achieve that is by not taking their children out in public, the fact is that we are all having images taken off us all the time, especially in a shopping center.
But the anger at this woman is because she has judged and condemned others without any evidence, upset her child when it was not necessary and wants the law changed which will remove others freedoms because of her paranoia, not supported by any empirical evidence. But the thing that angers me most is the sheer hypocrisy of moaning about others when her own husband shares photos of her child on the internet where they could be quite easily copied by the very people she accuses these "photographers" of being.
 
Ben johns said:
Same. I just don’t understand why people get angry with parents when their not happy about having photos taken of their children. I think some parents probably go straight to 10 right away without first asking but we don’t know if something similar happened to them when they were younger. It’s understandable to be a bit concerned. I was approached once by a man asking if I’d taken a photo of him and I hadn’t actually taken a photo of anything. I showed him the photos I’d taken and he left. He was polite but I don’t know what he would have been like if I actually had taken a photo of him!
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It would just be a shame if there were a change in the law, so that you could not include people/ children in photos you took, of general street scenes. When I take photos in the street, I don't specifically intend to photograph people, it just happens that people are on the street, at time of taking the photo.
 
Ben johns said:
I think the media has a lot to do with it. I’m 30 and was given a lot of freedom. Would go out all day with friends without a phone (obviously) and never had a problem. However as a parent now I’m even a bit paranoid! I think the news and social media has played on people’s fears to get views and ratings. There’s so much now about sex offenders that I think it’s hard not to be concerned. Having said that how do we know that the problem has always been the same but since the introduction of technology people are being caught and found out much easier
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Back when I was a child we would be out all day and our parents had no idea where we were, never had a problem. There must have been lots of 'bad people' but word never got around.

These days the world finds out in seconds when social media uploads go viral. We are just finding out now what went on in some approved schools, kids homes etc. in the 50s &60s and much of it is horrific yet this knowledge is wide spread in days and it COULD be perfectly innocent.

I don't do street photos but I have taken photos that include other peoples kids but they have always been part of a scene where my kids or grandkids have been the main subject and the other kids were 'just in the way' and I would have missed the shot if I waited for them to move out of view. I don't warn the grandkids as one will try to hide, one will stand still and look stupid and the other two will automatically start to pose for the camera, none of which I would class as family photos to remember the good times from.

Other than family photos I try not to include people as IMHO they just spoil the shot.
 
Baloo said:
If people do not want photos of their children being taken then the only way the can achieve that is by not taking their children out in public, the fact is that we are all having images taken off us all the time, especially in a shopping center.
But the anger at this woman is because she has judged and condemned others without any evidence, upset her child when it was not necessary and wants the law changed which will remove others freedoms because of her paranoia, not supported by any empirical evidence. But the thing that angers me most is the sheer hypocrisy of moaning about others when her own husband shares photos of her child on the internet where they could be quite easily copied by the very people she accuses these "photographers" of being.
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You can’t say don’t take children outside if you don’t want photos taken of them, almost sounds like blaming the parents. Sounds similar to if you didn’t want to be robbed you shouldn’t have bought nice things.

I agree about cctv but it’s not the same. i also agree about sharing photos on Facebook, it it’s stupid, I’d never do it with my daughter. But that was her choice, it wasn’t her choice to have a photo taken by someone else. I’m not saying she’s 100% right but her not being 100% doesn’t mean your 100% or that it’s ok to be angry at her
 
jonbeeza said:
It would just be a shame if there were a change in the law, so that you could not include people/ children in photos you took, of general street scenes. When I take photos in the street, I don't specifically intend to photograph people, it just happens that people are on the street, at time of taking the photo.
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I agree. I think the context changes how people feel. You get photos where a person is more of a shape that adds to a photo and then you have people like Bruce Gilden. Technically Bruce has the right to take those photos but it’s just rude to me and the outcome is worth it
 
Having done long exposure shots to ensure no one is in them, it's surpising how many ask why are you photographing me when the exact opposite is what one was attempting to achieve.

Strange how there is so much "as a parent we do not want"....... but the Royal families kids appear to be fair game to satisfy the publics demand to see their kids.
 
Reading through this thread again while logged out I have to laugh at some stupid things, so a family take their children to the park and then you get some god almighty photographer taking photos of your children laughing while on a swing so creepy indeed but if that`s their thing then best of luck to them as the police would soon need to talk to them. You do have to worry about some people though now days, I`d go in to town to take photos and the only time I`d take a photo in a park would be for my family and not for some creep to photograph.
 
Dangerous said:
Back when I was a child we would be out all day and our parents had no idea where we were, never had a problem. There must have been lots of 'bad people' but word never got around.

These days the world finds out in seconds when social media uploads go viral. We are just finding out now what went on in some approved schools, kids homes etc. in the 50s &60s and much of it is horrific yet this knowledge is wide spread in days and it COULD be perfectly innocent.

I don't do street photos but I have taken photos that include other peoples kids but they have always been part of a scene where my kids or grandkids have been the main subject and the other kids were 'just in the way' and I would have missed the shot if I waited for them to move out of view. I don't warn the grandkids as one will try to hide, one will stand still and look stupid and the other two will automatically start to pose for the camera, none of which I would class as family photos to remember the good times from.

Other than family photos I try not to include people as IMHO they just spoil the shot.
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No I don’t tell family when I’m taking a photo. But as I said before I think it’s reasonable to approve them after and say what your doing. That might be going overboard but I’d expect to be asked every time I took a photo of someone, I wouldn’t be angry at them
 
Baloo said:
How is CCTV not the same? You think pervs cant get hold of CCTV footage?
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It’s the intent. Of course pervs could get hold of it, im not saying ban alcohol because some people abuse it or ban cars because some drive to fast. People aren’t wrong for taking photos of people including children. What I’m saying is getting angry at the parent when they ask what their doing is stupid.
 
I guess though what would people do if they had a group of men taking photos of your child, would you really be happy with that. I cant say I would be entirely happy.
 
Dangerous said:
I just searched Lorraine Mcmenemy and she was the first found. She doesn't share except to friends but has shared a post about the issue and made it public. Her cover photo includes the kids face with hers.
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But is HER child so surely up to her if she posts it? You also dont know about if that child is subject to a child protection order or similar. I always ask at my sons football as I could post a pic online that could identify a vulnerable child.
 
Ben johns said:
I don’t know if anyone else on here is a parent,
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Most child cruelty/abuse is committed by parents or step-parents ;)

BTW just to reiterate, there is almost no evidence that these foreign ”non-Scottish” and presumably dark skinned men were actually intending to take photos with their phones of her daughter though one did include the daughter in a photo. Also her problem was that she believed they were planning to kidnap her daughter and anyway there are plenty of photos of her daughter on Facebook.

As I wrote earlier, we are just being wound up by the media for their own purposes. The only effect is to make it easier for criminals while the police are out hunting down photographers with big cameras etc etc :(.
 
Ben johns said:
It’s the intent. Of course pervs could get hold of it, im not saying ban alcohol because some people abuse it or ban cars because some drive to fast. People aren’t wrong for taking photos of people including children. What I’m saying is getting angry at the parent when they ask what their doing is stupid.
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First you have no knowledge of the intent, look at the posts above to see pictures taken of children for no other reason than it made a great photo. Second who got angry with the woman?
 
Dave70D said:
Reading through this thread again while logged out I have to laugh at some stupid things, so a family take their children to the park and then you get some god almighty photographer taking photos of your children laughing while on a swing so creepy indeed but if that`s their thing then best of luck to them as the police would soon need to talk to them. You do have to worry about some people though now days, I`d go in to town to take photos and the only time I`d take a photo in a park would be for my family and not for some creep to photograph.
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Well im not saying that you have to be a creep to photograph other people and other children. But you have to respect the people your taking photos of and not get cross when asked about it. Considering it’s a hobby, and even if your full time job, they have more of a right to be out in public and to question what’s happening than you do you take a photo
 
Ben johns said:
Well im not saying that you have to be a creep to photograph other people and other children. But you have to respect the people your taking photos of and not get cross when asked about it. Considering it’s a hobby, and even if your full time job, they have more of a right to be out in public and to question what’s happening than you do you take a photo
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No they have exactly the same right!
 
Ben johns said:
I just don’t understand why people get angry with parents when their not happy about having photos taken of their children.
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I don't get angry at the parents but I do regard them as just plain stupid when they act like that woman.

Think on this: when children walk through most towns they're being filmed; when children get on a bus they're being filmed; when children go into many shops they're being filmed. The only way to "protect" them is to wrap them in burquas and escort them between house and school then back again.
 
Baloo said:
First you have no knowledge of the intent, look at the posts above to see pictures taken of children for no other reason than it made a great photo. Second who got angry with the woman?
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And neither do you, for all you know the intent might have been dodgy.
I think we’re arguing for the wrong reasons! I don’t disagree with anyone here really, I just think that people need to understand the other side.
maybe no one here has gotten angry as such but I’ve read YouTube comments on photography channels on the subject and they tend to be angry towards parents
 
Ben johns said:
Well im not saying that you have to be a creep to photograph other people and other children. But you have to respect the people your taking photos of and not get cross when asked about it. Considering it’s a hobby, and even if your full time job, they have more of a right to be out in public and to question what’s happening than you do you take a photo
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I agree the photographer has to respect who`s image they are taking and that is right as is the right of the person to ask if their photo was taking without their consent, plus I do think a person does have a right to ask for the photo to be deleted as at the end of the day it`s manners and respect.
 
Baloo said:
No they have exactly the same right!
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Im sorry but I don’t agree with that. I don’t know the law exactly but let’s assume that the law gives the same right to both parties as you say.
morally the photographer does not have the same right as the person being photographed.
 
Ben johns said:
And neither do you, for all you know the intent might have been dodgy
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Correct, because I do not know their intent I make no judgement and do not demand a change in the law to remove others rights!
 
Dave70D said:
I agree the photographer has to respect who`s image they are taking and that is right as is the right of the person to ask if their photo was taking without their consent, plus I do think a person does have a right to ask for the photo to be deleted as at the end of the day it`s manners and respect.
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But, subject to OS/app/etc, you can’t delete a phone photo in any meaningful way!
 
Baloo said:
Correct, because I do not know their intent I make no judgement and do not demand a change in the law to remove others rights!
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Neither have I! Lol. All I’ve said is what she did is understandable given that it was her child, she has a right to protect her child against Potential harm and she didn’t know the intent either
 
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