Critique

BillN_33

BillN_33

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Edit My Images
No
Just mulling over my thoughts ..

I generally only comment on nature images, particularly bird images, not because I regard myself as an expert in these areas, more because I feel more qualified, through experience, to do so than any other subject.

When I look an image, no matter how good it is I always see something that I can Critique ........ I am now reluctant to comment on many "good" images, because of this ..... as I feel that my comments are received as negative, or considered to be so.

I see many images posted on here followed by a stream of "one line" postings saying what great shots they are .............. but I do not see images in that light at all ........ I look at the composition, the technical side of the shot, how it has been processed ...... and also my perception on the difficulty of getting that shot, the skill in getting the image if you like, I then consider the image and how I "feel" about it ..... how it makes me feel if you like.......... I can then comment but I always like to add a few words either way.......... the odd image does come along when "it's all about the image" is true ....... but these are few and far between.

I have stopped commenting on what I regard as poor images, many of which again are followed by "one liners" praising the image ............... I do believe in encouragement but not false flattery

In fact I have found many comments on images posted so confusing, (maybe the wrong word ..... maybe I mean so simple as a comment), that I have got to the stage where I have stopped posting images on the forum.

I am not pointing at any image specifically, it is a general comment
 
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BillN_33 said:
I am not pointing at any image specifically it is a general comment
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Most of the time I can't be bothered by the one liners as they appear to be blowing smoke in order to get a like back (Mods ... how about a THANK YOU as well as LIKE). I will comment on images that go beyond my "like", e.g. really like very much, and more often than not on themes I am not interested in (so if on such a theme I say something I mean it even more as a "like" ... e.g. babies).

However, on critique, if I see a nice image and if the image is repeatable or the issue is the processing then I might suggest. If it is a capture of something, e.g. a bird, I can ask if there is a different crop or not but if I would have liked more clouds less of something else is tough luck on me. I either like it as is or not.

If you offer critique you have to be prepared to explain in detail what you mean and why so the photographer can be more aware of the issue next time (if s/he values your comment).
 
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I tend not to add many comments on others posts these days, maybe not for the same reasons as others though. I use my phone a lot and once the " Like" button was added then its much easier just to hit that than make a comment especially with my fat fingers on a small phone.

I tend to take comments on board however as of late i read the crit given to me and find myself getting annoyed when others give crit but have never shown a skill level themselves to carry out the actions they suggest i or others do to our images-.If you want to crit to the minute detail to score points then please show your able to perform the act yourself its bloody nature and wildlife and its never perfect so i make the best of the situation and my skill levels at a given time. There isnt a perfect image so easy to crit if you desire to but people need to stop and think if they can walk the walk before asking others to do it( defo not aimed at anyone- just airing my views).
 
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This is a tough one?
I'm happy to put some images up every now and again, and if someone responds regardless of good or bad then that's fine ands I will always answer. I'm in the camp that if someone enjoys the image or doesn't and adds a few words regardless if its helpful critique or hurtful then again no issue.. Its just a few words and as long as I like them then that's good enough for me regardless, no one will die....And my tiny ego will cope ;).
The internet is full of experts with opinions and its just a case of not getting too upset otherwise don't contribute which is a real shame, as that's what forums are for (?) .

I'm happy to just like or add a few words as sometimes someone can see something slightly different that you don't see and perhaps learn for the next time.
 
I've all but given up, not just commenting but actually looking at the gallery forums.


A few of us used to comment in the Sports forum but have basically given up due to 'offended' posters and 'White Knights' when told what's wrong with an image.

Apparently the 'pros' should know better than to point out when something is wrong! :)
 
Yup , I will never give crit in this forum as the few times I did it just wasn't worth the agro
 
I like this forum, Its covers all angles of photography and as got something to offer anyone and everyone who wants to learn, You can find out the answer's to all sorts of problem. You can get advice on buying camera's, lenses and all sorts of ancillary equipment all associated with photography. The advice given can be good, bad or totally indifferent, that does not matter in my book. Like all advice you can sift through it and take from it what you want.
However when it comes to critique i do not feel confident or knowledgeable enough to give it. On the occasion i have posted a photograph on here, which as not been often, there as been quite negative feed back.
There is in my opinion no such thing as a perfect bird or wildlife photograph...... Simply because wildlife is totally unpredictable and long may it stay so.

I cant remember the actual photo i posted, but i do remember BillN-33 commenting on the fact that the processing of the shot let it down and could be better. When i asked if he could explain how i could improve it, he said it was teatime and would get back to me later. He never did. Now that's not a problem at all as far as I'm concerned. there is no obligation to do so....... However it had the effect of making me think twice if not three times before posting on this forum again. On this forum there are some excellent shots posted in all subjects and i enjoy looking at them and sometimes i offer a comment but never a critique. If a critique is offered it should be constructive and helpful with the possibility of information that will help the photographer to improve his/her next posting.
 
boogie 16 said:
I like this forum, Its covers all angles of photography and as got something to offer anyone and everyone who wants to learn, You can find out the answer's to all sorts of problem. You can get advice on buying camera's, lenses and all sorts of ancillary equipment all associated with photography. The advice given can be good, bad or totally indifferent, that does not matter in my book. Like all advice you can sift through it and take from it what you want.
However when it comes to critique i do not feel confident or knowledgeable enough to give it. On the occasion i have posted a photograph on here, which as not been often, there as been quite negative feed back.
There is in my opinion no such thing as a perfect bird or wildlife photograph...... Simply because wildlife is totally unpredictable and long may it stay so.

I cant remember the actual photo i posted, but i do remember BillN-33 commenting on the fact that the processing of the shot let it down and could be better. When i asked if he could explain how i could improve it, he said it was teatime and would get back to me later. He never did. Now that's not a problem at all as far as I'm concerned. there is no obligation to do so....... However it had the effect of making me think twice if not three times before posting on this forum again. On this forum there are some excellent shots posted in all subjects and i enjoy looking at them and sometimes i offer a comment but never a critique. If a critique is offered it should be constructive and helpful with the possibility of information that will help the photographer to improve his/her next posting.
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I would never knowingly use the word teatime
 
The crit I get on my images has significantly improved what I produce, particularly with regards to PP. I give my opinions where I think they will be constructive. Most of this stems from what I've learned from others here, not always something I am able to achieve myself. I find doing this helps myself too as critiquing other images has helped me look at my own images in the same way.
 
There are a few on here that get confused with 'critique' and 'finding fault' .............and the bird section has more than it's fair share!
 
This subject comes up with monotonous regularity.
I'm not sure who are the ones at fault, those who vocally disagree with crit (very rare IMO) or maybe ignore crit or those who think their crit is the be-all and end-all of photography to be rigorously followed and complain when it isn't.
Everyone here has the right to post photos, everyone has the right to crit in a crit forum and everyone has the right to accept or ignore that crit ... moaning about the results of either is pointless IMO.
 
•


I like the chance to look at others works, newbies, advanced or pros.
I like to help where I can and encourage everywhere I can. Every day
is a school day for anyone with an opened mind and heart… even me.
EDIT: Every day is a school day for all of us… as suggested.

I like to read the comments and critiques and I can make a difference
between clever observations, cool suggestions and groundless attacks.
I respect the naivety of some as I despise the venomous comments of
others.

What I disrespect the most are accusations, negative, vibes coming from
a long time member or even a mod.

gramps said:
Everyone here has the right to post photos, everyone has the right to crit in a crit forum and everyone has the right to accept or ignore that crit ... moaning about the results of either is pointless IMO.
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:agree:
 
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I sometimes give a one liner to the effect of liking a photograph but not for any backslapping, I will go into more detail regarding composition sometimes, however I don't feel competent enough to comment on pp. I have asked (several times) that instead of just commenting regarding pp that anyone who comments also copy and modify the image so the owner and others can see what improvements can be made.
I think it's a shame that the more experienced photographers indicate above that they don't wish to comment or show how a photo can be improved with pp or composition because the author takes offence, I would welcome their contribution. I may not agree with it and it might not create the image I was after, on the other hand it might well show how much better it could have been and what I was missing.
 
I always give the good and the bad... I don't really care if someone doesn't want to hear anything negative (I don't understand that). I don't post many pics as I also don't really care what someone else thinks most times, but if I do post a pic I'll take the good and the bad just as well... every once in a while I learn/re-learn something new, and I make more mistakes than I'd like to admit.
 
DemiLion said:
What that comes from is the dislike of comments like this… Which come across as just the tiniest bit arrogant.
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In French, when addressing others, it usually excludes the
speaker except when "we" is used. Here, I just wanted to
make sure that my non native sentence would include me
as beneficiary of the exercise.
 
Kodiak Qc said:
What would this mean in this context, Charles?
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First, DemiLion seemed as if he wanted to say exactly what he thought which could result in an argument. Therefore, the emoticons were "I got the popcorn" and I got a "drink" and I am ready to watch the argument. Second, you wrote
Kodiak Qc said:
Every day
is a school day for anyone with an opened mind and heart… even me.
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That "even me" can have three meanings.
- I know everything or I know so much but even I can learn something sometimes ... which would come across as arrogant. In plain English you could have written "Every day is a school day for all of us..."
- What you explained without any further interpretation.
- Having reread your comment again my 3rd interpretation was wrong. In Britain people often joke or do irony on themselves. They say one thing but mean exactly the opposite. The more gently it is done so it is not apparent the better it is. "Every day is a school day for anyone with an opened mind and heart… but I don't need to go to school anymore [;)]". The emoticon being optional.

If it helps a little :)
 
gramps said:
This subject comes up with monotonous regularity
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Normally in the help and support forum, where it get's a wider audience.

Human nature being what it is the old saying "beauty is in the eye of the beholder" applies here.
I rarely comment on things these days, too many who feel they know more are so quick to jump on others,
especially in support of their mates.

There are a few on here who seem to think their views on pictures etc, are the only valid ones
and don't accept when others post a different point of view, fair enough but for many that will stop them getting involved.

Also many don't even take the trouble to acknowledge when you do comment, ok so they may hit the like button
but that is not the same, personally I would love to see that button disappear, in my view it has played a large
part in the demise of critique and comments.
Maybe keep it in OOF but disable it in the critique forums and see if more take the trouble to post.

markyboy.1967 said:
its bloody nature and wildlife and its never perfect so i make the best of the situation
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This so true if you are truly in the wild, creatures don't just sit and pose in perfect light. Leaves, grass,branches etc will get in the way, cast shadows, give them a
colour cast, we can't ask them to move to a better place for us.
We've recorded what we saw at the time, should we always be editing to try and make it look what may be others idea of perfect, should rule of 3rds
always apply ?
Personally I love to see some of the environment included
 
Gremlin said:
Normally in the help and support forum, where it get's a wider audience.

Human nature being what it is the old saying "beauty is in the eye of the beholder" applies here.
I rarely comment on things these days, too many who feel they know more are so quick to jump on others,
especially in support of their mates.

There are a few on here who seem to think their views on pictures etc, are the only valid ones
and don't accept when others post a different point of view, fair enough but for many that will stop them getting involved.

Also many don't even take the trouble to acknowledge when you do comment, ok so they may hit the like button
but that is not the same, personally I would love to see that button disappear, in my view it has played a large
part in the demise of critique and comments.
Maybe keep it in OOF but disable it in the critique forums and see if more take the trouble to post.



This so true if you are truly in the wild, creatures don't just sit and pose in perfect light. Leaves, grass,branches etc will get in the way, cast shadows, give them a
colour cast, we can't ask them to move to a better place for us.
We've recorded what we saw at the time, should we always be editing to try and make it look what may be others idea of perfect, should rule of 3rds
always apply ?
Personally I love to see some of the environment included
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I nearly hit the like button ;)
I agree with pretty much everything you've written.
I don't think there is a perfect photo, just because everyone is different, with different views and standards. And because everyone is different, they give and take critique in different ways.
I do post photos sometimes and take the critique, positive or negative (although negative is probably the wrong word).
I wish more of the more experienced photographers would give feedback to other less experienced photographers, how can you learn if you walk round in a bubble of purely praise from the like button.
 
Gremlin said:
personally I would love to see that button disappear, in my view it has played a large part in the demise of critique and comments.
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I agree ... even though I am as guilty as anyone else in using it from time to time.
 
If members don't post photos or give feedback, then what's the point of the photo sections of this forum. I would encourage more people to post. I have learned so much from here, I'm still not a particularly good photographer, but I'm a lot better than I was.
The trouble with some of the feedback given is that there doesn't seem to be any encouragement to the poster. Just this is wrong, that is wrong. So the quality of feedback is important to the OP.
 
Nostromo said:
I nearly hit the like button ;)
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I did just cos I can :)

TBH I do post the odd picture, but doesn't really worry me whether people look, comment or anything. it's good when someone
does point out something you have missed, but the constant moaning about WB, colour cast really gets on my nerves, more so
when the person tries to correct and fails
 
Nostromo said:
The trouble with some of the feedback given is that there doesn't seem to be any encouragement to the poster. Just this is wrong, that is wrong.
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Maybe a failing on my part but it bugs me when this comes from people who rarely post their own photos.
 
I agree that's subject has been discussed a few times before, and IMHO it is good that it is discussed periodically to prevent the problems of the past ...... if it is brought out in the open people can have their says and indeed the above comments are interesting.

The Like Button - we have discussed this before and the suggestion is usually made that it be replaced with "Thank you"

"Likes" seem to be thrown around like confetti

Likes received are recorded - would be interesting to see a "likes Given" figure ...... is there one recorded?
 
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I used to post many more images than I do now, partly because of the one line responses, normally if I post an image on here it is because I am not 100% sure or I have tried something different. Because of this I am requesting comment and critique, I am a grown up, over the years I have developed a thick skin, so I can take a bit of negativity, likewise if it has worked, it would be nice to know why. From a positive or negative point "nice shot" doesn't really help. Yes its an ego boost (but thats why I have Flickr and Facebook), it doesn't help me develop. It has also has the effect of discouraging me from giving in depth critique.
 
BillN_33 said:
I agree that's subject has been discussed a few times before, and IMHO it is good that it is discussed periodically to prevent the problems of the past ...... if it is brought out in the open people can have their says and indeed the above comments are interesting.
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I agree, it does come up a lot, and I think I have probably repeated my comments each time, however it is good as a gentle reminder that we may have slipped into bad habits ( I know I have)

BillN_33 said:
The Like Button - we have discussed this before and the suggestion is usually made that it be replaced with "Thank you"

"Likes" seem to be thrown around like confetti

Likes received are recorded - would be interesting to see a "likes Given" figure ...... is there one recorded?
Click to expand...

Unfortunately this is a bi-product of social media and will only get worse. In general we are so use to used to scrolling through walls of posts and either clicking like or re-tweeting something the grabs our attention. The art of conversation is dwindling
 
When I click on my favourite forum that is Birds, at the top of the page shows the heading Forums>Photo Genres - Sharing & Critique.
Now my interpretation of this is We share our image and if anyone offers critique everyone can learn from it. The heading does not say sharing FOR critique therefore if I see an image that is shared that I think is worthy of praise I will give it and sometimes with enthusiasm. I have learned lots from the OP and others that have posted on this thread. In the main I agree with the critique offered but not always. I would comment though that there are times that there seem to be veiled attacks by some that seem a little bit personal against some contributors. just my observation.
 
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ChrisHeathcote said:
I used to post many more images than I do now, partly because of the one line responses, normally if I post an image on here it is because I am not 100% sure or I have tried something different. Because of this I am requesting comment and critique, I am a grown up, over the years I have developed a thick skin, so I can take a bit of negativity, likewise if it has worked, it would be nice to know why. From a positive or negative point "nice shot" doesn't really help. Yes its an ego boost (but thats why I have Flickr and Facebook), it doesn't help me develop. It has also has the effect of discouraging me from giving in depth critique.
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Everyone is different and has different levels of skill/ability ... some like to comment on a photo they enjoy looking at whilst others make a brief comment suggesting a small adjustment, still others may be able to provide strong technical advice. All types should be welcome as long as they are polite, sadly that isn't always the case and some feel that their crit is the only thing that matters ... whilst some members may be more crit-masochistic than others a constant stream of negativity discourages some people from posting at all.
 
IMHO - I think that it is always useful to regularly review and discuss, not only the Critique element of the forum, which can get a lot of "stick," but also any other area that are worthy. For me, is important to always make the Forum as interesting as possible ........

The Mods do their best, (hard for me to admit to that!!!), by having "sticky" threads ..... but new members come in all the time and are not aware of past actions or discussions.

I never use these "smiley" things ..... as I just do not know what they mean

Maybe the question is: How do we think that the Critique section can be improved, or indeed is it fine as it is?
 
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gramps said:
I agree ... even though I am as guilty as anyone else in using it from time to time.
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There was that discussion about the likes when I first came to TP.
I remember having taken a position against the like button… but I
am on no social media for one and I did not understand it's use.

"Like" or "TY" button is a third way to communicate one's apprecia-
sion, no matter the competence level — technique or artistique —
of the button pusher. All cannot express the how and why of their
preference(s)… or is in the mood to. I got some posts that got no
critiques, no comment… but some likes…

I learned to use the emoticon too… hoping it will help to express a
none hostile attitude from me since I can not include it very well in
the chosen words!
 
BillN_33 said:
Maybe the question is: How do we think that the Critique section can be improved, or indeed is it fine as it is?
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As I keep banging this drum I'll do it again.
Edit the photo that has been supplied for critique and show visually what needs to be changed, after all this is a PHOTO website so it's a visual based group not a book reading club :)
And yes I know I should post my shots with the request for it/them to be editted and maybe one day I'll get round to it.

Matt
 
MatBin said:
As I keep banging this drum I'll do it again.
Edit the photo that has been supplied for critique and show visually what needs to be changed, after all this is a PHOTO website so it's a visual based group not a book reading club :)
And yes I know I should post my shots with the request for it/them to be editted and maybe one day I'll get round to it.

Matt
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whilst I would agree ...... I have just edited an image and said

"I'd have a go at cloning out the gull in the BIF shot and re-crop .. easily done with the cloning and crop tools in, (I use PS), but other apps will do the job"

do you mean I should explain how to use the several cloning tools in PS plus how to add canvas ............ it would take me quite some time and there are far better videos on Utube on how to use the PS tools ...... which explain "how to"
 
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