Everyone wants to be a photographer

[ernesto]

They have a social reputation which they don't really deserve, just like the VW Golf, a car that was reliable once upon a time in the mid 1980's.

Their reputation comes from making products that just work. They are enjoyable to use, interface very well between hardware/firmware and software and always more intuitive to use..
I have used Android, I have used Windows and other alternatives but I always prefer using Apple. This is not a fashion led decision as nobody can see me using my iMac or iPad when at home can then but I am still happy to pay the premium for it as I use it many hours per day and my last Mac lasted 7 years without a single fault.

 

[Organnyx]

"The best survive... the rest don't" - how I wish that were true - sadly there's a market for naff formulaic dross too, always has been, always will be.......(such companies as Olan Mills).

I don't think a genuinely talented professional has anything to fear from "amateurs", and to be frank there are a great many of them who are artistically far worse than many amateurs, and they still manage to make a good living - I can think of one or two in this area who haven't the first clue as to how to take a good picture, but are doing very nicely thankyou............

To my mind commercial success does not necessarily show they're better photographers at all..............

 

[Pookeyhead]

"The best survive... the rest don't" - how I wish that were true - sadly there's a market for naff formulaic dross too,

Which should only be a matter of concern to you if you also produce naff formulaic dross, surely.

 

[Lyonspride]

Their reputation comes from making products that just work. They are enjoyable to use, interface very well between hardware/firmware and software and always more intuitive to use..
I have used Android, I have used Windows and other alternatives but I always prefer using Apple. This is not a fashion led decision as nobody can see me using my iMac or iPad when at home can then but I am still happy to pay the premium for it as I use it many hours per day and my last Mac lasted 7 years without a single fault.

That's where their stranglehold over their OS, software and hardware comes in, buy a decently built PC and it'll last just as long, but unlike Apple nobody controls who builds PCs. My folks bought their last PC from Aldi and its rubbish.
Android is cursed by the same cheap hardware manufacturers.

I won't allow anyone to control how I use my PC, or what software I use, or what hardware it has. I built my current one in 2009 and it's still lightening fast.

If you buy cheap, you pay twice.

 

[Organnyx]

I'd be quite happy if only truly good photographers rose to the top of the pile, sadly it doesn't work that way - for me that's a truth, obvious to anyone, what I produce (or don't) is irrelevant to that statement - I love good photography, and am saddened to see utter dross being marketed (and bought) by many. Of course it's subjective, but I don't think there's any denying that there's some bloody awful photography about, a lot of it produced by "pros".

(Ps, smug Linux Mint user)

 

[Pookeyhead]

Of course it's subjective, but I don't think there's any denying that there's some bloody awful photography about, a lot of it produced by "pros".

(Ps, smug Linux Mint user)

What particular market are you referring to?

 

[specialman]

It's alright wanting to be a photographer, but it's the effect of these people's perception that photography is easy that has to be dealt with.

I know loads of people who want to be racing drivers but it'll never happen. These people wanting to be photographers though, that can happen and quite easily. How long they last in the profession is another matter.

The key thing is accessibility to equipment - that's well documented - but also the expectations of the potential client. There's another thread on TP where London Headshot has invested £25,000 on a hasselblad because it will give him access to clients who want super-high quality. The money involved is probably equally high and they (the clients) expect high quality, hence the investment the photographer is making.

But I don't believe 'average Joe' has standards that are very high, hence why there are some truly appalling photographers who exist as a business year-on-year.... they give the client what they want at a price they want and everyone is happy. But this diminishes the value of photography as a whole. This idea that those who've had it good for so long deserve to be undercut is stupid; all that's doing is driving quality down in price, which makes no sense.

A few people on here need to wake up when it comes to thinking this way - we're not talking about the amateur photography game where taking a good image is the only end result; we're talking about people's careers and livelihoods. I should know, I've just been made redundant as a result of people undervaluing my skills and ultimately, not understanding the value a good image carries. And I was powerless to stop it....

 

[Lyonspride]

It's alright wanting to be a photographer, but it's the effect of these people's perception that photography is easy that has to be dealt with.

I think it needs to be suggested that the big camera manufacturers are the ones making it easier to get reasonable images from low end compact cameras... But they themselves are forced to compete with mobile phones.

I remember the Sony Ericsson k800, the early release had better image quality than the Sony compact digital I bought 2 years previous. Sony then screwed with the firmware to over sharpen the k800's images.

For as long as mobiles keep pushing, the big brands will keep closing the gap between compact and DSLR....

 

[steve_lyt]

the mark of a true professional , is basicly not how well they handle ideal stituations but , how they perform when things go wrong.

 

[Steve Smith]

the mark of a true professional , is basicly not how well they handle ideal stituations but , how they perform when things go wrong.

It's certainly true that many businesses get more repeat bookings when things go wrong and are handled competently and efficiently than when everything goes to plan.


Steve.

 

[Steve Smith]

A few people on here need to wake up when it comes to thinking this way - we're not talking about the amateur photography game where taking a good image is the only end result; we're talking about people's careers and livelihoods.

You could say this about almost every trade that people work in on a self employed basis. There are too many carpenters, plumbers, taxi drivers, gardeners, etc, etc. to make a good living with the amount of work available but that shouldn't be a bar to someone trying. It would be unfair if it was.


Steve.

 

[Pookeyhead]

There's happy crappy snaps charging peanuts for crap social portraiture... and there's Perou, Nadav Kander or Tim Walker.... and a whole spectrum in between. Why concern yourself with what happy crappy snaps do?

 

[Soda Farl]

That's where their stranglehold over their OS, software and hardware comes in, buy a decently built PC and it'll last just as long, but unlike Apple nobody controls who builds PCs. My folks bought their last PC from Aldi and its rubbish.
Android is cursed by the same cheap hardware manufacturers.

I won't allow anyone to control how I use my PC, or what software I use, or what hardware it has. I built my current one in 2009 and it's still lightening fast.

If you buy cheap, you pay twice.

As I have already said the facts speak for themselves. In reliability terms Apple outperforms every other manufacturer that sells p.c's and laptops in the 1k plus category. That is a fact.

 

[steve_lyt]

if things go wrong , either as Steve said it has to be handled in a competant manner, or they dont even realise something went wrong in the first place.

an example , at an event the Av went wrong , but no one noticed , it was sorted without panicing and cause minimal delays . this was due to it being handled in a professional manner . im not saying that an ametear couldnt have handled it as well, but the experience came into play.

in many ways as with any trade poeple think that its the tools that make someone good at what they do, but that is only a small part of it , experience is far mor important, and also knowing your equipment

 

[Steve]

As I have already said the facts speak for themselves. In reliability terms Apple outperforms every other manufacturer that sells p.c's and laptops in the 1k plus category. That is a fact.

I did a quick google search and found several sites quoting stats. NONE of them showed Apple as most reliable....Asus, Toshiba and Sony all being above Apple.

For example:

http://www.statisticbrain.com/laptop-malfunction-rates/

Perhaps you could share the source for your 'facts'?

 

[Lyonspride]

I did a quick google search and found several sites quoting stats. NONE of them showed Apple as most reliable....Asus, Toshiba and Sony all being above Apple.

For example:

http://www.statisticbrain.com/laptop-malfunction-rates/

Perhaps you could share the source for your 'facts'?

I think it can be subjective, when somebody spends double the money for a "status" item, they don't complain so publicly when it goes wrong. Like a friend that bought an expensive 4x4 because his car got stuck in the snow, he didn't tell a soul when the 4x4 got stuck a year later, because he knew we'd all laugh.

 

[MWHCVT]

Is photography getting easier, I don't think it is but other than PAS I've not actually got any film experience, but I don't think digital is easy to do well....the trouble I think is that the vast majority of the general public wouldn't know a great photo if it were printed on a canvas and smashed over there heads

 

[DrRusty]

I want to be a better photographer but there is no way I am going to jack in my job and set out to become a Pro.

However turn up with a "big" camera and people seem to expect more. I has someone seeing my to be fair pretty basic kit immediately state "you could do weddings" ! I quickly explained why that wasn't the case.

I think people hear the praises from friends and family and it goes to their few heads.

 

[Phil V]

Is photography getting easier, I don't think it is but other than PAS I've not actually got any film experience, but I don't think digital is easy to do well....the trouble I think is that the vast majority of the general public wouldn't know a great photo if it were printed on a canvas and smashed over there heads

That's part of the problem, the other one is that photography is an art and a science - the science bit has got an awful lot easier.

You used to be able to charge for photography if you could focus and expose properly, now the camera does that for you. That upset all the 'pros' that were banking on making money from just their technical skills.

The art bit is trickier, and the camera will never be able to do it. But now you only have to learn the arty bits - and that's where the stealth attack has come into play. The internet has made studying photography and photographers easy for anyone who puts their mind to it. It was difficult 30 tears ago to learn all this stuff, nowadays a newbie can be copying the work of 'good' photographers overnight.

 

[Soda Farl]

I did a quick google search and found several sites quoting stats. NONE of them showed Apple as most reliable....Asus, Toshiba and Sony all being above Apple.

For example:

http://www.statisticbrain.com/laptop-malfunction-rates/

Perhaps you could share the source for your 'facts'?

I think it can be subjective, when somebody spends double the money for a "status" item, they don't complain so publicly when it goes wrong. Like a friend that bought an expensive 4x4 because his car got stuck in the snow, he didn't tell a soul when the 4x4 got stuck a year later, because he knew we'd all laugh.

As I explained earlier the stats are based on the units sold by the company I work for and are compiled based on repair requests from our customers.

For example the entry level Toshiba's and Sony's you quoted as being more reliable are among the worst, their more expensive gear scores a little better. Asus to be fair scores reasonably well on their higher end kit but quite poor on their lower end equipment as you would expect. Based on equipment costing 1k plus Apple scores the highest.

The stats you quoted are quite misleading. Hp for example being the worst this is true of there pavillion range which are atrociously bad however there business desktop range for example their elite range is one of the most reliable around. Toshiba's Satellite range of laptops are absolute rubbish were as their Tecra and Portege range are superb.

Comparing like for like though on units costing over 1k Apple is the most reliable manufacturer.

 

[MWHCVT]

That's part of the problem, the other one is that photography is an art and a science - the science bit has got an awful lot easier.

You used to be able to charge for photography if you could focus and expose properly, now the camera does that for you. That upset all the 'pros' that were banking on making money from just their technical skills.

The art bit is trickier, and the camera will never be able to do it. But now you only have to learn the arty bits - and that's where the stealth attack has come into play. The internet has made studying photography and photographers easy for anyone who puts their mind to it. It was difficult 30 tears ago to learn all this stuff, nowadays a newbie can be copying the work of 'good' photographers overnight.

I'd be useless with manual focus but I do see what you mean

 

[blakester]

Is photography getting easier, I don't think it is but other than PAS I've not actually got any film experience, but I don't think digital is easy to do well....the trouble I think is that the vast majority of the general public wouldn't know a great photo if it were printed on a canvas and smashed over there heads

I disagree with the second part of your post Matt I'm afraid.
Its a sweeping statement of the general public, photography is subjective, and people's taste will differ wildly.
Can I ask what you are basing your statement on?

 

[Phil V]

I'd be useless with manual focus but I do see what you mean

You'd be fine, you have to remember that proper manual focus bears no resemblance to attempting MF on a modern AF camera.

 

[MWHCVT]

I disagree with the second part of your post Matt I'm afraid.
Its a sweeping statement of the general public, photography is subjective, and people's taste will differ wildly.
Can I ask what you are basing your statement on?

It's purely on observation, I should maybe have gone a little further, it's maybe that the none photographers value a photo entirely for the memory of the moment captured, mainly it comes from the number of times I've sat and looked through friends recent sets of photos and there not being a single one in focus some to the point you only know there are people in the shot, or there person who's actual wedding photos had her with a telegraph sticking out of her head and there all the people raving about it :shake:

 

[blakester]

It's purely on observation, I should maybe have gone a little further, it's maybe that the none photographers value a photo entirely for the memory of the moment captured, mainly it comes from the number of times I've sat and looked through friends recent sets of photos and there not being a single one in focus some to the point you only know there are people in the shot, or there person who's actual wedding photos had her with a telegraph sticking out of her head and there all the people raving about it :shake:

Fair enough Matt
You've brought up another point with your explanation, that of capturing the memory. Thats what matters to some, the memory.

Anyway, I took it off topic, apologies to the OP

 

[specialman]

You could say this about almost every trade that people work in on a self employed basis. There are too many carpenters, plumbers, taxi drivers, gardeners, etc, etc. to make a good living with the amount of work available but that shouldn't be a bar to someone trying. It would be unfair if it was.

Absolutely, people should always be encouraged to try. And you're probably right - there are probably loads of tradesmen fighting for a limited number of jobs... DIY will have an impact on their businesses.

But how many people actually set themselves up (legitimately) as taxi drivers, carpenters, plumbers (etc) at the drop of a hat? I doubt it's that many, what with qualifications and the legalities involved....

With photography it's very easy because the only barometer of if you're any good is the end image and in many cases, the client doesn't have a clue what they want - or has extremely low standards - so the photographer gains success at the cost of those who strive to create a standard, a level of a quality, which usually means they're in a higher price bracket.

Ignroe me, I've just got the hump lately at people who think photography (and imaging in general) is all done by the machinery and not the individual

 

[Steve Smith]

You've brought up another point with your explanation, that of capturing the memory. Thats what matters to some, the memory.

I think with wedding photography and general family snapshots, that is the most important thing.

If you look through old family albums, two things are usually on most people's minds.

1. Trying to put names to faces.
2. Noticing the changes in fashions, cars, etc. over the years.

Technical quality, artistic merit and composition are not very important in these cases.


Steve.

 

[Steve Smith]

But how many people actually set themselves up (legitimately) as taxi drivers, carpenters, plumbers (etc) at the drop of a hat? I doubt it's that many, what with qualifications and the legalities involved....

Other than having a Hackney carriage licence, the trades I mentioned are easy to set up. Anyone can be a gardener or carpenter or plumber (other than gas fitting) without any qualifications.

No different to setting up as a photographer really.

Ignroe me, I've just got the hump lately

Consider yourself ignroed!!!


Steve.

 

[Steve]

As I explained earlier the stats are based on the units sold by the company I work for and are compiled based on repair requests from our customers.

For example the entry level Toshiba's and Sony's you quoted as being more reliable are among the worst, their more expensive gear scores a little better. Asus to be fair scores reasonably well on their higher end kit but quite poor on their lower end equipment as you would expect. Based on equipment costing 1k plus Apple scores the highest.

The stats you quoted are quite misleading. Hp for example being the worst this is true of there pavillion range which are atrociously bad however there business desktop range for example their elite range is one of the most reliable around. Toshiba's Satellite range of laptops are absolute rubbish were as their Tecra and Portege range are superb.

Comparing like for like though on units costing over 1k Apple is the most reliable manufacturer.

Okay....so we will just have to take your word for that despite every source for failure on a google search contradicts it. :shrug:

 

[cowboy]

I've noticed recently the amount of rubbish being touted by friends and relatives as photographs.

By rubbish I mean out of focus, drab, heads cut off, etc.

I've tried to help them by pointing out a little PP can go a long way, also looking through the photos before uploading them only to be met with rudeness, one told me there is no need to do any PP as theirs are good enough straight out of camera.

I even did a little PP on one of their pics and although their family thought it was a lot better I was just interfering.

They have reduced the size of the pics in camera as facebook takes to long to upload all the photos they take over a weekend (can be around a thousand).

Another took a photo of their child and they must have moved their eyes at the critical moment so she looks like she has cataracts but this is on canvas in the living room.

As long as people are happy with this type of dross professional photographers might need to tighten their belts a little but once it is seen as the rubbish it is then the market will improve.

 

[specialman]

Other than having a Hackney carriage licence, the trades I mentioned are easy to set up. Anyone can be a gardener or carpenter or plumber (other than gas fitting) without any qualifications.

No different to setting up as a photographer really.

I read it as tradespersons in general, my fault. Yeah, with plumbers and carpenters then maybe skill is the only barometer, but other trades like gas fitting, electrical work, car mechanic demand qualification. I know you didn't mention them, but for the sake of what I was pointing to, I reckon you'd soon be found out if you started touting yourself as one of those trades without the relevant safety training, insurances etc. With photography it seems much easier to set up and filter in the position to satisfy the needs of a client....

Consider yourself ignroed!!!

I'm always confused how autocorrect on OS X wants to work one minute and the next, it just turns a blind eye

 

[POAH]

Don't get me wrong I am all for people learning and enjoying photography but it just seems recently EVERYONE wants to do it. Years ago when I first started photography using a 35mm film camera hardly anyone was interested in it. Is it because its more accessible now or that people enjoy seeing instant results now with digital or is it as I think because of mobile phones and people use the cameras on the phones and think... this is easy I want to do more of this..

Just wanted peoples thoughts........

don't know anyone that wants to be a photographer as a job and I couldn't care less even of they did.

 

[Mr Bump]

Photography's really fun.

got to agree here, also as a recent convert to taking piccies with the new technology the general learning curve to taking good pics is easy, maybe to great pics more difficult but thats what the pros are for.

Photography is not a dark science and we should defo embrace more people enjoying this.

I also disagree with folk who say post processing is part of the picture taking process......its not its borderline fakery.

 

[London Headshots]

I also disagree with folk who say post processing is part of the picture taking process......its not its borderline fakery.

You need to get out of this line of thinking. Not only because it's wrong, but also because you're closing yourself off from an incredible and complex technical process that's as amazing as photography itself.

The elitism present in the minds of purists is as bad as the elitism in the first post of this thread. Neither kind belongs in photography.

 

[gadgeteer]

Without a doubt, becoming a photographer is easier nowadays than in days gone by. Manual focus, dark rooms, limited amounts of film etc all made it harder for an amateur to train up.

But as others have already said, the modern digital camera does away with all that.

The megapixel wars is over and more recently the emphasis has been on ISO performance. Even that will end soon I think. Personally I think the next gamechanger is whichever company manages to get Lytro-style technology into their cameras.

Can you imagine how many more people will become a photographer once you don't even have to worry about focus? Just stick the file on the computer and adjust afterwards!

Combine that with pulling stills from video and if the camera companies can merge the two technologies, the market as we know it will change.

 

[seriousrikk]

I also disagree with folk who say post processing is part of the picture taking process......its not its borderline fakery.

Good post processing now is just doing what folks did in darkrooms with their film. Was that fakery too?

 

[Ed Sutton]

...I've just been made redundant as a result of people undervaluing my skills and ultimately, not understanding the value a good image carries.

Sorry to hear that, Pat. I thought your employer was clued up on that.

I also disagree with folk who say post processing is part of the picture taking process......its not its borderline fakery.

Then it's been borderline fakery since the darkroom was invented.

 

[specialman]

Sorry to hear that, Pat. I thought your employer was clued up on that.

No comment

got to agree here, also as a recent convert to taking piccies with the new technology the general learning curve to taking good pics is easy, maybe to great pics more difficult but thats what the pros are for.

Photography is not a dark science and we should defo embrace more people enjoying this.

People getting into photography and then enjoying the full spectrum of what cameras can offer them is great. It drives the photographic industry.

But the real matter here is people getting into it and overnight, they're marketing themselves as a pro and taking cash for the images and service the provide. That has to be controlled somewhat, not in some draconian fashion, but by educating punters and (some) photographers alike that price isn't the defining factor. Ultimately, aside from their wallets, punters are also led by their taste and that is something you can't neccessarily influence...

I also disagree with folk who say post processing is part of the picture taking process......its not its borderline fakery.

It is, there's no getting away from it. In the same way we chose film stock, devving chemistry and paper to give a certain look and feel to a print from film, digital manipulation is part and parcel of digital imaging. Deny that and you're denying the evolution (and revolution) that has happened.

 

[steve_lyt]

pp is part of photography , i quite agree , but what make me mad is when , photos are taken with the attitude " oh i can sort it in photoshop" , this should not be the case the image should be the best you can get it when its taken.

creative photography is different , in that it may be taken with pp in mind

 

[Steve Smith]

Then it's been borderline fakery since the darkroom was invented.

I don't do a lot of dodging and burning when I'm printing but yes, it's almost as old as photography itself.

A lot of Frank Hurly's images from the Endurance Antarctic expedition had more dramatic skies added.

He did the same thing to some of his battle field images, many of them being staged too.

http://nla.gov.au/nla.pic-an24574133-v


Steve.