Film Photographer of the Year 2019 (FPOTY 19) thoughts and ideas: Poll added

[Mrs Snap]

pmsl - Volunteers take two steps forward, you shuffle forward one step, and everyone else takes one step back...

and, sorry, no, I'm not volunteering - something like 4 years of running all the leaderboards and collating scores for the main bitch-fest POTY competition was more than enough for me...

Just trying to find out what's going on. My post got a few likes and a couple of jokey replies but no actual useful feedback. Also, @ChrisR started this thread and has been asking about last years themes which implies to me that he's interested in running the competition.... If he is, I'm out!

 

[Mr Badger]

pmsl - Volunteers take two steps forward, you shuffle forward one step, and everyone else takes one step back...

and, sorry, no, I'm not volunteering - something like 4 years of running all the leaderboards and collating scores for the main bitch-fest POTY competition was more than enough for me...

No major bitch-fest on here, we're all too polite (apart from where banter is concerned!)... Mind you, I believe someone did get really annoyed on the F&C forum a few years ago and went "Tut".

 

[excalibur2]

Just trying to find out what's going on. My post got a few likes and a couple of jokey replies but no actual useful feedback. Also, @ChrisR started this thread and has been asking about last years themes which implies to me that he's interested in running the competition.... If he is, I'm out!

Well IMO you are a very competent person organising things esp meets so if you wanted to do POTY you'd be excellent.

 

[sirch]

Just trying to find out what's going on. My post got a few likes and a couple of jokey replies but no actual useful feedback. Also, @ChrisR started this thread and has been asking about last years themes which implies to me that he's interested in running the competition.... If he is, I'm out!

Well, you did such a good job of organising the Onich trip

Let's see if @ChrisR is up for it, if push-came-to-shove I too could probably be persuaded but I am really rubbish at remembering things in general and dates in particular, i.e. actually spotting that it is the last day of the month is generally well beyond my abilities so I can see people might find that a bit frustrating.

 

[Andysnap]

And I have an actual top hat for drawing out the themes so we have all the important stuff sorted.....

 

[Mr Badger]

And I have an actual top hat for drawing out the themes so we have all the important stuff sorted.....

Well how about you and @RaglanSurf pulling an idea out of it for the New Old Film Challenge then?

 

[Mrs Snap]

if push-came-to-shove I too could probably be persuaded but I am really rubbish at remembering things in general and dates in particular, i.e. actually spotting that it is the last day of the month is generally well beyond my abilities so I can see people might find that a bit frustrating.

@Carl Hall has done a great job organising FPOTY for the past two years. If people still want to take part, it would be a shame to see it die off because nobody is prepared to organise it. I'm happy to take a turn running it, whether now or a following year, to ensure that it continues and I hope that other people would too.

 

[dmb]

@Carl Hall has done a great job organising FPOTY for the past two years. If people still want to take part, it would be a shame to see it die off because nobody is prepared to organise it. I'm happy to take a turn running it, whether now or a following year, to ensure that it continues and I hope that other people would too.

So @Mrs Snap has my vote.

 

[ChrisR]

Sorry, I've been travelling all day, now back in them Midlands. I have been meaning to say that if @Mrs Snap decided against, I'd be willing to run it for a year. Might need a bit of chivying at times, though. I also had the idea that we might get others to put up the thread for some months, eg if away etc.

 

[Mrs Snap]

So, shall I do it for 2019? I had no intention of swooping in and trying to grab it from anyone else interested in organising it. On the other hand, we could spend the next few days or weeks being very polite and British about it (“Allow me”, “No, allow me”…. ad infinitum) whilst not actually making any decisions!

I’m glad to see that one or two people may be prepared to take over in 2020!

 

[TheBigYin]

So, shall I do it for 2019? I had no intention of swooping in and trying to grab it from anyone else interested in organising it. On the other hand, we could spend the next few days or weeks being very polite and British about it (“Allow me”, “No, allow me”…. ad infinitum) whilst not actually making any decisions!

I’m glad to see that one or two people may be prepared to take over in 2020!

I think that your offer is very kind and generous, and I'm sure you'll make a great job of it... All who agree say Aye...

 

[simon ess]

Aye

 

[srichards]

Aye.

 

[excalibur2]

So, shall I do it for 2019? I had no intention of swooping in and trying to grab it from anyone else interested in organising it. On the other hand, we could spend the next few days or weeks being very polite and British about it (“Allow me”, “No, allow me”…. ad infinitum) whilst not actually making any decisions!

I’m glad to see that one or two people may be prepared to take over in 2020!

Well if you are really keen on doing it then I vote for you, but if you think you'll be very busy next year then I'll have plenty of spare time next year, being retired, and put my name forward as once upon a time used to be very good at spread sheets although a bit rusty now.
Maybe a vote to choose?

 

[Andysnap]

Aye, aye and thrice times aye.

Well if you are really keen on doing it then I vote for you, but if you think you'll be very busy next year then I'll have plenty of spare time next year, being retired, and put my name forward as once upon a time used to be very good at spread sheets although a bit rusty now.
Maybe a vote to choose?

Very kind of you to offer Brian but Jan can easily fit a bit of FPOTY admin into her schedule, if necessary I can take over some of her other duties, washing, cleaning, ironing etc.

 

[Mrs Snap]

some of her other duties, washing, cleaning, ironing etc.

You're very stupid brave when you're 35 miles away from me!

 

[Mr Badger]

Snip:

Very kind of you to offer Brian but Jan can easily fit a bit of FPOTY admin into her schedule, if necessary I can take over some of her other duties, washing, cleaning, ironing etc.

Well Andy, you've heard the expression 'new man'... and I think Mrs S will be looking for one if you aren't careful!

 

[Mr Badger]

I think that your offer is very kind and generous, and I'm sure you'll make a great job of it... All who agree say Aye...

Aye.

 

[Andysnap]

You're very stupid brave when you're 35 miles away from me!

Yep, thats me, brave from a distance. I shall give my normal grovelling apology when you get home dear.

 

[Mr Badger]

Yep, thats me, brave from a distance. I shall give my normal grovelling apology when you get home dear.

I may be able to find you some space in my garden shed for a few nights if it doesn't work. We chaps need to stick together in times of need.

 

[excalibur2]

Well I vote we put a list up now for next year's FPOTY and start now as there are going to be, for the next four days, sunny weather and I want to catch up cycling and photography while it's still warm.

 

[Peter B]

Aye, aye and thrice times aye.

and a big to Janet for offering.

 

[sirch]

I think that your offer is very kind and generous, and I'm sure you'll make a great job of it... All who agree say Aye...

Aye

 

[Harlequin565]

and a big to Janet for offering.

+1 from me too. Thanks Janet.

 

[ChrisR]

Aye aye, Cap'n!

 

[Carl Hall]

It's an aye from me too Thanks Janet

 

[RaglanSurf]

Thanks Janet, you're a star.

 

[Mrs Snap]

Nah, I've changed my mind!

My thinking cap is on. Watch this space....

Edit - Feel free to throw in any more ideas or suggestions you might have

 

[dmb]

Nah, I've changed my mind!

My thinking cap is on. Watch this space....

Edit - Feel free to throw in any more ideas or suggestions you might have

Aye - (like what I said before)

Should we put the rejected 10% back in the mix (Celebrity, Air, Postcards, Hope and Run) as some of the additional suggestions might be even worse?

 

[ChrisR]

Edit - Feel free to throw in any more ideas or suggestions you might have

I had a post here for the aborted 2016 FPOTY that might have some interesting additions...

Can I suggest that whatever the initial set of themes is, eg the remainder of Carl's for example, or an augmented list, we do another poll, maybe each vote for 12? That way we can again rule out the really unpopular ones. Although we want to encourage folk to shoot new things, we don't want to discourage ourselves while doing it!

BTW there seem to be two themes to do with frames in Carl's list; don't think we should have both (and they may effectively be the same).

 

[Mrs Snap]

Should we put the rejected 10% back in the mix (Celebrity, Air, Postcards, Hope and Run) as some of the additional suggestions might be even worse?

I wasn't planning to. I thought I'd ask for a few additional suggestions from people then add a poll to whittle the least popular out like Carl did last year.

I had a post here for the aborted 2016 FPOTY that might have some interesting additions...

Can I suggest that whatever the initial set of themes is, eg the remainder of Carl's for example, or an augmented list, we do another poll, maybe each vote for 12? That way we can again rule out the really unpopular ones. Although we want to encourage folk to shoot new things, we don't want to discourage ourselves while doing it!

BTW there seem to be two themes to do with frames in Carl's list; don't think we should have both (and they may effectively be the same).

Thanks Chris. I'll try and have a look at that later.

I do have a couple of ideas I'm pondering at the moment. If I can flesh them out into something coherent, I'll post them up for everyone's amusement and instant rejection!

 

[Mr Badger]

Is there really any point in adding to the numerous theme nominations we already have? There are already more enough themes to choose from for one year there, so let's just chuck what we've got in the hat, draw 12 out and it's sorted, however:

The thing I think we should spend a little time on (to increase entry numbers and make things a bit easier on ourselves) is to put the 12 selected themes in as logistically as 'shootable' order as possible given the time of year and 'lead in' time for the subject. For instance, 'Summer' would be a pretty crappy subject for January, and Halloween would be a challenge for May if we aren't allowed to enter photos taken the preceding October. Please note, these aren't nominated themes, they're just to illustrate my point, before someone goes looking and ends up confused!

Sound like a plan?

 

[Mrs Snap]

Is there really any point in adding to the numerous theme nominations we already have?

Actually, yes. There are a few people who started entering FPOTY 2018 later in the year, who missed out on the last chance to suggest themes. I'm going to give them the opportunity if they want it so they stand a chance of one of their suggestions being picked.

The vote to remove subjects that the majority really don't like prior to the draw worked well last year so I plan to do it again.

I agree with your point about the order to an extent. Looking at the remaining themes from last year, there are very few it would actually apply to. Until the draw is done, I won't know if there are any obviously unsuitable month/subject combinations that need looking at.

 

[Mrs Snap]

Actually, yes. There are a few people who started entering FPOTY 2018 later in the year, who missed out on the last chance to suggest themes. I'm going to give them the opportunity if they want it so they stand a chance of one of their suggestions being picked.

I did a quick analysis this morning and found the results very interesting...

• 11 people have entered at least one month of the 2018 competition who didn't suggest themes
• 10 people have have entered at least one month of the 2018 competition who did suggest themes
• 4 people suggested themes who, so far, have not entered the competition

I'm definitely going to invite the 11 to come up with at least one idea each. It's entirely up to them if they want to.

 

[Mr Badger]

I wasn't thrilled about the topic selection process last year, which I thought wasted rather a lot of time.

For those who missed it, from memory it involved: People suggesting three ideas for topics, with a deadline set for this; when the deadline ended any very similar topics were amalgamated to avoid repetition; then there was a poll to decide (as I understood it) the most popular suggestions, and I assumed that the top 12 would then be chosen as the topics for 2018.

I'd obviously misunderstood (to be honest, I was losing interest in the process by that stage), because all that time and effort spent in having a poll merely resulted in a few 'least popular' topics being eliminated, with the rest (over 40 of them - including ones that barely got more votes than the few that were rejected) being put in a hat and 12 drawn out at random.

In hindsight, I couldn't see a significant benefit in having a poll if so many subjects that were quite clearly nobody's favourites were left in. Why not just pick the top 12 from the voting, go with those and do without a draw? Or, if we want to introduce a random element, then put the top 20 from the poll in the hat and draw from those?

 

[Mrs Snap]

I wasn't thrilled about the topic selection process last year, which I thought wasted rather a lot of time.

For those who missed it, from memory it involved: People suggesting three ideas for topics, with a deadline set for this; when the deadline ended any very similar topics were amalgamated to avoid repetition; then there was a poll to decide (as I understood it) the most popular suggestions, and I assumed that the top 12 would then be chosen as the topics for 2018.

I'd obviously misunderstood (to be honest, I was losing interest in the process by that stage), because all that time and effort spent in having a poll merely resulted in a few 'least popular' topics being eliminated, with the rest (over 40 of them - including ones that barely got more votes than the few that were rejected) being put in a hat and 12 drawn out at random.

In hindsight, I couldn't see a significant benefit in having a poll if so many subjects that were quite clearly nobody's favourites were left in. Why not just pick the top 12 from the voting, go with those and do without a draw? Or, if we want to introduce a random element, then put the top 20 from the poll in the hat and draw from those?

Why have you changed your (presumably meant to be a joke?) comment comparing FPOTY to Brexit?

 

[Mr Badger]

Why have you changed your (presumably meant to be a joke?) comment comparing FPOTY to Brexit?

After posting, I thought that some constructive comment might actually add more to the thread than a joke this time, so deleted the banter and used that post space rather than putting two consecutive posts on the thread.

 

[Carl Hall]

I wasn't thrilled about the topic selection process last year, which I thought wasted rather a lot of time.

For those who missed it, from memory it involved: People suggesting three ideas for topics, with a deadline set for this; when the deadline ended any very similar topics were amalgamated to avoid repetition; then there was a poll to decide (as I understood it) the most popular suggestions, and I assumed that the top 12 would then be chosen as the topics for 2018.

I'd obviously misunderstood (to be honest, I was losing interest in the process by that stage), because all that time and effort spent in having a poll merely resulted in a few 'least popular' topics being eliminated, with the rest (over 40 of them - including ones that barely got more votes than the few that were rejected) being put in a hat and 12 drawn out at random.

In hindsight, I couldn't see a significant benefit in having a poll if so many subjects that were quite clearly nobody's favourites were left in. Why not just pick the top 12 from the voting, go with those and do without a draw? Or, if we want to introduce a random element, then put the top 20 from the poll in the hat and draw from those?

The process for picking the themes was always meant to be random, so that people are pushed to shoot things that are a bit different. If we'd just taken the top 12 themes then we'd have ended up with 12 unexciting themes that we all take photos of all the time anyway. The reason for the poll was to get rid of those few themes that people thought were a little too far outside the box.

We talked about the method for picking themes at the start of November, so there was loads of time to discuss it before the poll even started.

 

[Mr Badger]

The process for picking the themes was always meant to be random, so that people are pushed to shoot things that are a bit different. If we'd just taken the top 12 themes then we'd have ended up with 12 unexciting themes that we all take photos of all the time anyway. The reason for the poll was to get rid of those few themes that people thought were a little too far outside the box.

We talked about the method for picking themes at the start of November, so there was loads of time to discuss it before the poll even started.

And we now have time to review that process and suggest amendments to it. I can see what the aim of last year's process was, but in hindsight I still think it wasn't worth the time taken to have a poll when only the lowest scoring 10% (just 5 topics out of 50?) were rejected. For the probable difference it made they could have gone into the hat with the rest.

 

[Mrs Snap]

And we now have time to review that process and suggest amendments to it. I can see what the aim of last year's process was, but in hindsight I still think it wasn't worth the time taken to have a poll when only the lowest scoring 10% (just 5 topics out of 50?) were rejected. For the probable difference it made they could have gone into the hat with the rest.

So, we can remove more of the least popular suggestions during the initial cull. That isn't a problem. I'm hoping that there will be an obvious cut-off point once the poll has closed and the results are visible. However, in my opinion, the process followed and the results that it aimed to achieve was sound.