Film Photographer of the Year 2019 (FPOTY 19) thoughts and ideas: Poll added

Question - Do you want to include either of the suggestions outlined in FPOTY 2019?

  • Neither

    Votes: 6 28.6%

  • Mystery Month only

    Votes: 10 47.6%

  • Joker only

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • Both

    Votes: 5 23.8%
  • Total voters
    21
  • Poll closed .
I can stick a poll on this thread for you, @Mrs Snap , if that would help... just give me the parameters if you'd like it done.
 
ChrisR said:
I can stick a poll on this thread for you, @Mrs Snap , if that would help... just give me the parameters if you'd like it done.
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Thanks Chris. It would be probably be better to keep it in the one thread. I'll let you know when I've worked out what the parameters are :)
 
Ok, here goes. What do you think of these?

Mystery month:

Normally, the photos for any month can be taken from the 1st December once the themes are published. My suggestion is that one month, probably in the summer when the days are much longer and weather will be lovely(!), we have a mystery theme which is only unveiled on the 1st of that month. This means that everyone would only have about 4 weeks to take, develop and upload their entry for that one month only. All other months would remain as per normal rules.

@TheBigYin has agreed to draw the theme from a list of suitable ones and announce it on the 1st day of that month, if we decide to go for this suggestion.

Joker:

Throughout the year, each person could have a joker to play in any one month when entering an image they’re particularly happy with. They would have to announce this prominently in their post at the point of submitting their entry. Then, if their entry comes in, say, the top 5 they would receive a few extra points in that month, possibly 5. It would take a bit more management from me and everyone would have to remember to play their joker at some time during the year, but I’m sure I could find a way to record jokers played on the leaderboard spreadsheet. Any jokers not played by the end of the year would be automatically activated in December.

It would give everyone the chance to earn a few extra points if the votes go their way in that particular month.

So, is there any appetite to add either the mystery month or joker to 2019’s competition?

Edit - Poll Added
 
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Mystery month sounds a good idea. I think the admin for the joker would end up being a pain.
 
srichards said:
Mystery month sounds a good idea. I think the admin for the joker would end up being a pain.
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simon ess said:
My thoughts precisely
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A pain it might be but do you think from the point of view of entering the competition that it would work, add value, be more fun, make a difference etc.?
 
(Devils Advocate Mode)

my only thought, and I'm well aware that I'm a nasty cynical sod, but, if the joker has been pre-announced, what (other than personal ethics and that you're all really nice people) is to stop people saying "stuff that, i'm not voting for their joker or they'll get extra points if it hits the top 5"... Despicable, yes, but some people do things like vote for their own image (shocking I know...) and this isn't much of a stretch...

If you were to decide to do it, I'd make the "playing joker" submission by PM only, and then announce them after the voting closes.
 
I dunno, I still vote for the photos which I think are the best, even if they're from people above me in the table. I assume everyone else does this too. Except for maybe the one person who only votes for one photo each month, which I've always been suspicious about.

I don't think the Joker would add a huge amount more work. Keeping track of it could be as simple as an extra couple of columns on the points table with a cross in one to show who's used it, and the joker points in the other which are then added on to the total. It's up to Janet how it all works though, obviously. It would definitely add some excitement when the points are announced, as the poll results being visible mean that everyone pretty much knows how everyone's doing before the poll even closes.

Both ideas get a big thumbs up from me (y)
 
srichards said:
Mystery month sounds a good idea. I think the admin for the joker would end up being a pain.
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simon ess said:
My thoughts precisely
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I kind of agree that the admin for the Joker round 'could' be a bit of a pain, but it might not be. Like Carl says, it could be as simple as adding a column or two to his spreadsheet and sticking a reminder on the entry thread each month. If we do it, I'd want to try and get it right first time to make it as easy as possible.

TheBigYin said:
(Devils Advocate Mode)

my only thought, and I'm well aware that I'm a nasty cynical sod, but, if the joker has been pre-announced, what (other than personal ethics and that you're all really nice people) is to stop people saying "stuff that, i'm not voting for their joker or they'll get extra points if it hits the top 5"... Despicable, yes, but some people do things like vote for their own image (shocking I know...) and this isn't much of a stretch...

If you were to decide to do it, I'd make the "playing joker" submission by PM only, and then announce them after the voting closes.
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Thanks for the constructive feedback. I hadn't really thought of that because, like Carl, I assumed that everyone had a similar voting ethic as myself. I'll have a think about this some more......

Carl Hall said:
Except for maybe the one person who only votes for one photo each month, which I've always been suspicious about.
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Really? :( That adds weight to Mark's suggestion....

simon ess said:
I really don't know, is the honest answer.

Be interesting to read people's thoughts.
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I'm very interested in people's thoughts about both ideas, not just votes. If there is a way to possibly improve either one (like Mark's suggestion) I'd like to know.

Just to let you all know, I am not voting in the poll. I genuinely don't want to bias or skew the poll results with my opinions. If the results are very close, I may have to make a decision one way or the other using the poll and feedback in this thread, so I want them to reflect your opinions and not mine. I've made the results only visible after voting so that none of you can be swayed by what other people have already voted for. A result of this is that I cannot see the results yet so you're all better informed than I am! Although once Mr Snap has voted I may be able to sneak a peek at them ;)

Edit - I see both of these suggestions as short term. I am only planning to organise FPOTY for one year so whoever takes over can bin both of these and start from a clean slate!
 
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I think mystery month is a good idea, I am doubtful about the joker idea just beacuse of how it can be judged against the other entries that month, I know I would struggle to decide whether to vote for a joker at all.
 
One thing I liked in one of the main POTY years was the anything goes month where everyone got to enter what they thought would be their most striking/unusual image, it was later in the year so folk had plenty of time but I guess it was a bear to judge.
 
Just wondered if people see this as a competitive or just a but of fun? Personally I am not very competitive and was going to just use this as an opportunity to try and improve my photography as there are subjects I would not normally take.
 
This is also why I enter, however I'm open to a bit of change to the format just to keep it interesting.
Having read the collective thoughts above I'm actually leaning toward the mystery month idea more so than the joker round, or even the anything goes idea. There are more things to think about with the joker idea that we hadn't considered originally.
 
Its mostly fun in so far as I'm not trying to win but I do see it as a nudge to take better photos.
 
Many quizzes I take part in have a "Joker round", but the key there is that the Joker has to be played before that round starts and therefore before the questions are known. (ie it might be a music round, but we have no idea of the kind of music we'll be asked about). I'm fine with whatever others want to do, since I mainly participate as a way of taking me out of my comfort zone with themes.
 
sirch said:
I think mystery month is a good idea, I am doubtful about the joker idea just beacuse of how it can be judged against the other entries that month, I know I would struggle to decide whether to vote for a joker at all.
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Fair enough, thanks for the feedback. I've been thinking about Mark's suggestion of playing joker by PM only but I can see a pitfall with it.

steveo_mcg said:
One thing I liked in one of the main POTY years was the anything goes month where everyone got to enter what they thought would be their most striking/unusual image, it was later in the year so folk had plenty of time but I guess it was a bear to judge.
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Anything Goes was in the 2017 FPOTY competition but removed in 2018 because of feedback about the difficulty of judging it.

Quendil said:
Just wondered if people see this as a competitive or just a but of fun? Personally I am not very competitive and was going to just use this as an opportunity to try and improve my photography as there are subjects I would not normally take.
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It's generally supposed to be just a bit of fun. There is a scoreboard but no prize. Using it as an opportunity to improve is a perfectly valid reason for taking part, so please join in!
 
Quendil said:
Just wondered if people see this as a competitive or just a but of fun? Personally I am not very competitive and was going to just use this as an opportunity to try and improve my photography as there are subjects I would not normally take.
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Usually I run a mile (quite slowly :) ) from any form of competition but I do find myself getting a bit competitive over this for some reason.

It is fun and you should join in, it might inspire you to take “better” photos but I find the lack of any form of feedback often leaves me wondering why the voting went the way it did and from that point of view it is perhaps not the most informative way of improving your photography
 
sirch said:
Usually I run a mile (quite slowly :) ) from any form of competition but I do find myself getting a bit competitive over this for some reason.

It is fun and you should join in, it might inspire you to take “better” photos but I find the lack of any form of feedback often leaves me wondering why the voting went the way it did and from that point of view it is perhaps not the most informative way of improving your photography
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This is a good point. Would it work to have another thread, a sort of "why the hell didn't you philistines vote for this" kind of thing :D
 
sirch said:
Usually I run a mile (quite slowly :) ) from any form of competition but I do find myself getting a bit competitive over this for some reason.

It is fun and you should join in, it might inspire you to take “better” photos but I find the lack of any form of feedback often leaves me wondering why the voting went the way it did and from that point of view it is perhaps not the most informative way of improving your photography
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What's amusing is you could get a load of likes and get no where...for me I never add likes in competition shots as IMO it's pointless as some I like better than others...now being silly if we had:- like +1, like +2 etc to show some difference o_O
 
sirch said:
Usually I run a mile (quite slowly :) ) from any form of competition but I do find myself getting a bit competitive over this for some reason.

It is fun and you should join in, it might inspire you to take “better” photos but I find the lack of any form of feedback often leaves me wondering why the voting went the way it did and from that point of view it is perhaps not the most informative way of improving your photography
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Andysnap said:
This is a good point. Would it work to have another thread, a sort of "why the hell didn't you philistines vote for this" kind of thing :D
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Interesting point. We could possibly open up a single 'FPOTY Entry Feedback' thread where people who want feedback or critique could request it?
 
Andysnap said:
This is a good point. Would it work to have another thread, a sort of "why the hell didn't you philistines vote for this" kind of thing :D
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:LOL:

excalibur2 said:
What's amusing is you could get a load of likes and get no where...for me I never add likes in competition shots as IMO it's pointless as some I like better than others...now being silly if we had:- like +1, like +2 etc to show some difference o_O
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I suspect people add likes in the competition thread to try to get on the good-side of other posters? *

Mrs Snap said:
Interesting point. We could possibly open up a single 'FPOTY Entry Feedback' thread where people who want feedback or critique could request it?
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It's an interesting idea although I was more thinking that if @Quendil really wanted to improve then posting photos for crit might be a better idea. But personally I would like feed back and I think it could be good as long as people keep it fun, positive and informative.

steveo_mcg said:
:D

A general crit thread might be better. Otherwise the answer is easy, the others were better.
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But why were the others better? What made them better? Better fit for the theme? Better composition? Better light? Sharper? Softer? Too grainy? Better processing (blacker blacks, whiter whites)? So perhaps not that easy.




* that isn't worded quite how I meant it to sound, I hope no one takes it the wrong way. :exit:
 
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Carl Hall said:
I dunno, I still vote for the photos which I think are the best, even if they're from people above me in the table. I assume everyone else does this too.
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I only added my comment, because of the many years of doing the "normal" POTY on here and getting to see what some people got up to. To be honest, I'd have thought that the people on here would have been above that sort of thing (well, with the exception of at least one despicable nerk (i've been watching porridge again) who admitted to voting for their own shot in competitions - i'd always had that down as beyond the pale...)

Carl Hall said:
Except for maybe the one person who only votes for one photo each month, which I've always been suspicious about.
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oh, still happening. Sad Panda.
 
I must admit I'm not keen on either of the new proposals, but entirely based on my own abilities and failings. I seem to need quite a lot of time to get ideas for a theme worked out in my head, and also to choose among candidates, so a surprise theme would considerably add to stress and diminish fun. I'm also particularly bad at working out if my entries will be successful; often the images I like best score least, so a joker wouldn't really help me. But if either or both were included, it wouldn't put me off entering (I've entered every month of the old monthly POTY and FPOTY since POTY13, with the exception of those parts of 2016 when that bad Nick let it slide :( ).
 
ChrisR said:
Everything.
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My feeling too. As someone who only started this year and who had no post-Jan 2018 images, the first couple of months were Mystery Months Without The Mystery. I'm a slower worker, and I find it great that when I do have time to go take some photos, I can look at the list and choose something to go and do. It's great to have a reason to take photos. Whatever you decide won't make a difference - I'll still enter, but I like the structure of knowing what's coming. I'm just an old fogey who doesn't like surprises.
 
ChrisR said:
I must admit I'm not keen on either of the new proposals, but entirely based on my own abilities and failings. I seem to need quite a lot of time to get ideas for a theme worked out in my head, and also to choose among candidates, so a surprise theme would considerably add to stress and diminish fun. I'm also particularly bad at working out if my entries will be successful; often the images I like best score least, so a joker wouldn't really help me. But if either or both were included, it wouldn't put me off entering (I've entered every month of the old monthly POTY and FPOTY since POTY13, with the exception of those parts of 2016 when that bad Nick let it slide :( ).
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Harlequin565 said:
My feeling too. As someone who only started this year and who had no post-Jan 2018 images, the first couple of months were Mystery Months Without The Mystery. I'm a slower worker, and I find it great that when I do have time to go take some photos, I can look at the list and choose something to go and do. It's great to have a reason to take photos. Whatever you decide won't make a difference - I'll still enter, but I like the structure of knowing what's coming. I'm just an old fogey who doesn't like surprises.
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Let's see how the vote goes. Neither will be added in to the 2019 comp unless there's a majority in favour. If you've already voted, you'll have a better idea than me as to whether either are likely to be included. :)
 
Been thinking about this for a while, and I'd like to put something back to the F&C community. I don't post a lot, but I do read, and there's a lot of useful info here for anyone wanting to get started in film. And you're a nice bunch.

To that end, I'd like to offer a "prize" each month of a free A4 print to the winner or joint winners. I really enjoy printing and have been striving to find decent papers to print on for a while. My recent search for an inkjet paper similar to Multigrade IV has (hopefully) come to an end, so I could offer a print on matt, gloss or lustre paper.

Any winner would need to send me their file, preferred paper choice and their name & address and I'd get it posted out 2nd class. I guess the overall value of the prize wouldn't be more than a fiver so it's (hopefully) not worth vote rigging for :)

Obviously any entrant would be able to opt out! I wouldn't want to force anyone.
Thoughts?
 
Harlequin565 said:
Been thinking about this for a while, and I'd like to put something back to the F&C community. I don't post a lot, but I do read, and there's a lot of useful info here for anyone wanting to get started in film. And you're a nice bunch.

To that end, I'd like to offer a "prize" each month of a free A4 print to the winner or joint winners. I really enjoy printing and have been striving to find decent papers to print on for a while. My recent search for an inkjet paper similar to Multigrade IV has (hopefully) come to an end, so I could offer a print on matt, gloss or lustre paper.

Any winner would need to send me their file, preferred paper choice and their name & address and I'd get it posted out 2nd class. I guess the overall value of the prize wouldn't be more than a fiver so it's (hopefully) not worth vote rigging for :)

Obviously any entrant would be able to opt out! I wouldn't want to force anyone.
Thoughts?
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Just to say, Ian has already run this idea past our local friendly mod @TheBigYin and me. If you lot think it's a good idea, I'm happy to incorporate it into next year's competition.
 
Harlequin565 said:
Been thinking about this for a while, and I'd like to put something back to the F&C community. I don't post a lot, but I do read, and there's a lot of useful info here for anyone wanting to get started in film. And you're a nice bunch.

To that end, I'd like to offer a "prize" each month of a free A4 print to the winner or joint winners. I really enjoy printing and have been striving to find decent papers to print on for a while. My recent search for an inkjet paper similar to Multigrade IV has (hopefully) come to an end, so I could offer a print on matt, gloss or lustre paper.

Any winner would need to send me their file, preferred paper choice and their name & address and I'd get it posted out 2nd class. I guess the overall value of the prize wouldn't be more than a fiver so it's (hopefully) not worth vote rigging for :)

Obviously any entrant would be able to opt out! I wouldn't want to force anyone.
Thoughts?
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I think that sounds pretty blooming brilliant, Ian, although I write as one with very little prospect of winning one. It's a great offer.
 
I’d be quite happy with both the new suggestions although I do agree the joker idea may create more trouble but if Janet is prepared to police it then I’m happy to support it.

Hopefully the new year FPOTY will be well supported and if the rules remain the same I’ll be happy with that too.

Personally I’m happy with most themes but I really wouldn’t like to see the return of the ‘anything goes’ Month, I find it impossible to judge a studio portrait against a macro of an ants head against a street shot against an abstract, but apart from that I’ll have a go at most things.
 
Having seen evidence of Ian's printing skills I would be very happy to receive a print of any shot that would be good enough to win a month....so far not too likely :D
 
Andysnap said:
Having seen evidence of Ian's printing skills I would be very happy to receive a print of any shot that would be good enough to win a month....so far not too likely :D
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This is of course true but since you are cosied up with a very talented photographer there’s every chance you’ll have one on your wall very soon :D
 
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