FILM Photographer of the year

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I've tried, I really have, but I still don't get the point of no PP months. If a finished image requires selective dodging and burning to reach its full potential then why wouldn't you do it?
 
Kev M said:
I've tried, I really have, but I still don't get the point of no PP months. If a finished image requires selective dodging and burning to reach its full potential then why wouldn't you do it?
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:shrug: to comply with the rules of the competition. Then do another one properly for you own consumption :naughty:
 
What are those particular rules trying to achieve though? To see who can produce the best half finished image?:shrug:
 
Kev M said:
What are those particular rules trying to achieve though? To see who can produce the best half finished image?:shrug:
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It only applies for a few months of the year. It is to fit in with rules for the digital section which avoids bad images being made much better with lots of photoshop. It tests the skill of the photographer in getting the image right from the start in the camera.
 
From reading through all the posts it seems th sponsor for this year has a somewhat narrow view of post production and so the team are stuck. There is a quite old fashioned school of primarily amateur photographers who seem to zealously believe that the ultimate skill of a photographer is in the production of pictures with no input in the light/darkroom, including the no cropping brigade.

It's not a school is subscribe to, being as one of the fundamental benefits of our medium is that it's a two stage process, capture and then print, but it is a surprisingly widely held "belief system" (for want of a better phrase). You can see it in F&C quite often too, with people posting pictures and revelling in their having done no post work to their flat, narrow tonal range picture, or posting the native 3:2 ratio images when small crops can fundamentally improve the composition.

Having said all that the rules are the rules, and it does at least stop most months being full of hideous HDRs and highly polished turds. I do think the no PP months are over the top, but as Darren says it's only for a couple of rounds
 
raathistle said:
From reading through all the posts it seems th sponsor for this year has a somewhat narrow view of post production and so the team are stuck. There is a quite old fashioned school of primarily amateur photographers who seem to zealously believe that the ultimate skill of a photographer is in the production of pictures with no input in the light/darkroom, including the no cropping brigade.

It's not a school is subscribe to, being as one of the fundamental benefits of our medium is that it's a two stage process, capture and then print, but it is a surprisingly widely held "belief system" (for want of a better phrase). You can see it in F&C quite often too, with people posting pictures and revelling in their having done no post work to their flat, narrow tonal range picture, or posting the native 3:2 ratio images when small crops can fundamentally improve the composition.

Having said all that the rules are the rules, and it does at least stop most months being full of hideous HDRs and highly polished turds. I do think the no PP months are over the top, but as Darren says it's only for a couple of rounds
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+1

But I would add there are mainly two types of shots and one is action shots when sometimes you can't add much in PP to make it "pretty" although at least basic flaws like spots can be removed....but when you have time to take a shot then why not post it at its best (of course not going over the top in PP).
Lets face it outside of our small circle, a billion people around the world would just judged the result for like or dislike and wouldn't care how it was achieved or even what equipment was used.
 
cowasaki said:
It only applies for a few months of the year. It is to fit in with rules for the digital section which avoids bad images being made much better with lots of photoshop. It tests the skill of the photographer in getting the image right from the start in the camera.
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Isn't the end result more important than how you got there? I'm convinced the whole getting it right in camera idealogy is a myth perpetuated by those who can't get to grips with Photoshop or wet printing. There are certain things like selective contrast adjustments that just can't physically be done in camera and the end result will likely suffer for a lack of it.

raathistle said:
From reading through all the posts it seems th sponsor for this year has a somewhat narrow view of post production and so the team are stuck. There is a quite old fashioned school of primarily amateur photographers who seem to zealously believe that the ultimate skill of a photographer is in the production of pictures with no input in the light/darkroom, including the no cropping brigade.

It's not a school is subscribe to, being as one of the fundamental benefits of our medium is that it's a two stage process, capture and then print, but it is a surprisingly widely held "belief system" (for want of a better phrase). You can see it in F&C quite often too, with people posting pictures and revelling in their having done no post work to their flat, narrow tonal range picture, or posting the native 3:2 ratio images when small crops can fundamentally improve the composition.
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Ain't that the truth. I bet guys like Les Nixon and Gene Nocon are glad that guys like me can't get it right in camera, otherwise they wouldn't need to write books on wet printing with techniques like selective split grade printing.

raathistle said:
Having said all that the rules are the rules, and it does at least stop most months being full of hideous HDRs and highly polished turds. I do think the no PP months are over the top, but as Darren says it's only for a couple of rounds
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See I have no problem with the hideous HDR's or badly photoshopped photos for two reasons.

1)They prove that you can't polish a turd into a diamond. But that isn't the same as saying that a SOOC shot is the Holy Grail.

2)Even if I think something looks like a polished turd, it's an artform and it's a subjective opinion. It's up to the judges to decide based on what the individual puts in front of them.

In a no PP month why can't you cross process if that is what the photographer visualised before they took the shot? It is after all a global adjustment using nothing but a choice of negative and developer.
 
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Kev... nobody's forcing anyone to submit sooc shots.

However, the rules of this competition are, for a couple of months, that there is minimal/no PP.

You may argue it's a silly rule - I may agree with you - I personally think that it's stupid that you can't pick up the ball and run with it in soccer, but apparently it's enshrined in the rules that you can't :shrug: - Hence, when I played team games, it tended to be Rugby rather than Football.

If you don't like it, fair enough, don't enter those months. Frankly, if I had have been able / eligeable to enter the competition this year, that's probably the approach I'd have had to have taken, as most of my competition entries in the POTY competition, according to "purists" were probably best described as "photoshop monstrosities" :shrug:
 
Just finished photographing my entry for January.

Off to the shops tomorrow to get some developer to see what they look like. Was a lot of fun thinking of something to fit the theme. Just hope the end result looks like it does in my head.
 
As has been said, it is just for a couple of months and it applies to everyone. There could just as easily have been a black and white month where people could argue that it made no sense. Just treat it like the themes in that its the best picture that fits in with the rules that month. I am a big user of photoshop having done tutorials and created numerous montages, posters etc. I have even swapped heads and struck people in photos when they were not there. If I were in the competition I would find those two months harder but it's the same rules for everyone.
 
Darren, just as a sort of follow up question, would split grade printing be eligible in the no PP months? It's a global contrast adjustment method so part of me thinks it should, but it feels like the digital equivalent would be frowned upon in those months. It's probably a moot point as I'm unlikely to be able to wet print anything for this as my darkroom is currently doubling up as a bee keeping storage area, but it would be nice to know
 
Any GLOBAL technique done by the photographer is fine even in the no pp months basically the only restrictions on film togs are selective adjustments such as dodging and burning and any post scan adjustments that are local.
 
raathistle said:
my darkroom is currently doubling up as a bee keeping storage area
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C'mon...man up

The risk of a few bee stings while trying to fine focus would add an element of fun to the process :)

I wonder if bees behave differently under a safelight.......
 
Just shot 2 rolls of potential entries for month 2 using sheets of paper and pillowcases as backdrops and light diffusers. Is there a separate award for frugal photographer of the year?

:D
 
robhooley167 said:
Just shot 2 rolls of potential entries for month 2 using sheets of paper and pillowcases as backdrops and light diffusers. Is there a separate award for frugal photographer of the year?

:D
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Better hope I don't recognise any pillow cases as backdrops then...









NIL POI. MUAHAHAHAHAHAHA


;) :D
 
Trololol

I used the one with your face on as the backdrop, but i might have blurred it enough to make it unrecognisable (probably for the best really)

:D
 
Just developed the film containing the entries for January and scanned the negatives.

Am pleased with the result apart from dust spots on the negative and a micro hair.

Usually would just remove these in Photoshop, but can't as PP not allowed.

Any advice...is it possible to re-wash the negatives and try to dry again in a more dust free environment or something else?

Thanks
 
Would methylated spirits work for a wash? It would dry very quickly hopfully not leaving time for dust.
 
I think it would be a bit harsh to stop cleaning up of the photo. That is not pp in my book, just a necessary evil of working with scanned negative!
 
Isopropyl alcohol is the main constituent of commercial negative cleaner and can be picked up for next to nothing online (y)
 
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Rules:

You may, in any month that allows post production, do manual post production extended/retarded development, selection of developers, cross developing, burning etc etc IF you are printing yourself from your negatives or in creating the negatives (if scanning negatives then spot dust removal is acceptable but we may ask to see the original). In a [no pp] month you can only mess with the negative/print globally by selection of developer and adjusting time etc so no cross processing, dodging, burning etc....
 
Except you can cross process in a no pp month because it's a global adjustment through choice of developer.
 
Kev M said:
Except you can cross process in a no pp month because it's a global adjustment through choice of developer.
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Yes, that is in the rules. It is mentioned again in the no pp months section. "No PP" is effectively less restrictive for film users especially those developing their own.
 
Thanks for the help and advice.

Now how do I get rid of those scratch marks.... :)
 
Steve said:
Thanks for the help and advice.

Now how do I get rid of those scratch marks.... :)
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Remember this is a photography competition so maybe a scratched image would still do it. I don't get to judge any myself so I can't say.
 
Scratches aren't too noticeable tbh.

And, I'm only entering for fun.

Don't think I will be troubling the scorers :)
 
Sent in my entry just now, lets see what happens, it was good fun thinking about what to send in to meet the theme of the month.
 
Sectionate said:
Was there ever an option to submit a film and a digital entry?
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No, if you enter in film then you are still entering the main competition just using film, they are NOT separate competitions. There IS an additional prize for those using film but this is for the film tog of the year and is a little something extra, you would still get the holiday if you won using film.
 
I don't get a vote but I obviously get to see all the images and who they are from etc. There are some good images coming through and film is most definitely holding it's own :D
 
oh well - if the standards that high, it's just as well I can't enter then - I'd only sulk when I failed dismally :LOL:
 
If those who have submitted FILM images can check their email and make sure you stated FILM in the title or at least the body of it. At least one has fallen through the net so far.
 
Submitted my entry last night.

Had 2 dealines for 31st January...tax return and this.

Tax return yet to be completed....you have to get priorities right :)
 
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