Formula 1 (and other categories) 2019

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More struggles for Alonso. Failed to qualify. He gets one more chance tomorrow to take one of the last row places.
Maybe he isn't quite as good as the hype suggested. I have always been a fan, but after LH was up against him in his first year at McLaren I expected FA to kick ass, which didn't happen. It seems he can get the best out of a poor car with a poor teammate, but on equal terms with a top driver is he really as good as being portrayed?

Having said that, F1 is full of that, is/was MS as good as his results when teammates were not allowed to beat him, and to an extent the same could be levelled at LH and absolutely with SV.
 
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Maybe he isn't quite as good as the hype suggested. I have always been a fan, but after LH was up against him in his first year at McLaren I expected FA to kick ass, which didn't happen. It seems he can get the best out of a poor car with a poor teammate, but on equal terms with a top driver is he really as good as being portrayed?

Having said that, F1 is full of that, is/was MS as good as his results when teammates were not allowed to beat him, and to an extent the same could be levelled at LH and absolutely with SV.
I think he showed his class when he first ran at Indy. Back then it was with the support of a proper team. This time McLaren are doing it themselves (with some help from Carlin), but their resources are nothing compared to Penske, Andretti, Ganassi et al.
 
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I think he showed his class when he first ran at Indy. Back then it was with the support of a proper team. This time McLaren are doing it themselves (with some help from Carlin), but their resources are nothing compared to Penske, Andretti, Ganassi et al.
Lets see.. :)
 
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Having said that, F1 is full of that, is/was MS as good as his results when teammates were not allowed to beat him, and to an extent the same could be levelled at LH and absolutely with SV.
I think LH44 has proved over the years he can put a poor car on the podium, and you have to be good to have won so many races, and got so many poles in qualifying. Bottas is proving to be a good team mate, and is pushing him hard, and competition is what he needs to be successful. A weak 2nd driver doesn't help anyone.

Vettel I think is having a hard time at Ferrari. He went there thinking all was rosey, but he now has a very fast, young team mate and that's starting to show. Schumacher was a good driver, but he wasn't as great as everyone says in my book. I remember him taking out Mansell in a race just so he could win the championship and stop Mansell from doing it. He generally had the best car and team orders on his side. He had the pick of the pit crews too.
 
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I think LH44 has proved over the years he can put a poor car on the podium, and you have to be good to have won so many races, and got so many poles in qualifying. Bottas is proving to be a good team mate, and is pushing him hard, and competition is what he needs to be successful. A weak 2nd driver doesn't help anyone.

Vettel I think is having a hard time at Ferrari. He went there thinking all was rosey, but he now has a very fast, young team mate and that's starting to show. Schumacher was a good driver, but he wasn't as great as everyone says in my book. I remember him taking out Mansell in a race just so he could win the championship and stop Mansell from doing it. He generally had the best car and team orders on his side. He had the pick of the pit crews too.
Are not thinking of MS shunting Damon Hill in Australia?
 
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It wasn't just the cut in the rear tyre which possibly explained the tail off in pace over his 4 laps (grid is set, I initially, based on average speed over 4 laps so consistency is very important) but he had another 4 attempts and his fastest run only gave him 31st place - only top 30 guaranteed a place on the grid next weekend.

There is now a session today (weather permitting) to select the final 3 places (from 5 cars I think).

It's quite a palaver setting the grid for the 500!
 
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It wasn't just the cut in the rear tyre which possibly explained the tail off in pace over his 4 laps (grid is set, I initially, based on average speed over 4 laps so consistency is very important) but he had another 4 attempts and his fastest run only gave him 31st place - only top 30 guaranteed a place on the grid next weekend.

There is now a session today (weather permitting) to select the final 3 places (from 5 cars I think).

It's quite a palaver setting the grid for the 500!
He’s up against some class too to get one of those last 3 spots.
 
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May have been actually... Long time ago, but I remember it being a British driver, and it being put down to a "racing incident" when it very much wasn't....
It's happened before, Senna and Prost springs to mind. I guess the extreme competitive nature of some of these guys cease a win at all costs attitude. You just watch how LH starts sulking if VB begins to get the upper hand, not that I think he will.
 
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It's happened before, Senna and Prost springs to mind. I guess the extreme competitive nature of some of these guys cease a win at all costs attitude. You just watch how LH starts sulking if VB begins to get the upper hand, not that I think he will.
The Senna Prost incedent at Suzuka had history frome the previous year when Prost tried to take Senna out but Senna managed to continue, win the championship only to have the then French boss of the FIA to uphold a protest from Prost that Senna had not completed the whole race distance as he had cut the chicane while retuning to the track after Prost had shunted him thus giving the championship to Prost.
 
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Fraser White
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Maybe he isn't quite as good as the hype suggested. I have always been a fan, but after LH was up against him in his first year at McLaren I expected FA to kick ass, which didn't happen. It seems he can get the best out of a poor car with a poor teammate, but on equal terms with a top driver is he really as good as being portrayed?

Having said that, F1 is full of that, is/was MS as good as his results when teammates were not allowed to beat him, and to an extent the same could be levelled at LH and absolutely with SV.
It's always extremely hard to tell how good a driver actually is and how important the car is.

The saddest name in F1 IMO is Williams - once the pinnacle of engineering excellence when Patrick Head and Adrian Newey were together. (David Coulthard as development driver & promoted on the death of Senna.)

Ferrari - have always had strong backing from the FIA and makes the regulations unfair. Ferrari were definitely cheating in the days of MS; launch control was hidden in software as were several engine maps. If they cried 'illegal' on chassis or aero to the FIA the team they complained about always had to modify their cars.MS was always with a team prepared to cheat - Benneton with Flavio

McLaren - once brilliant then fell from grace until Newey & Coulthard (Both ex Williams) arrived. Coulthard had to play second fiddle due to Ron Dennis favouritsm for Hakinen but Newey rated him as a development driver, now back in the doldrums after 'investing' far to much in Alonso.

Red Bull - ex Stewart & jaguar came good when guess who arrived/ Newey & Coulthard; probably the modern day Williams IMO.

Merc - untouchable! vast resources and money with an impeccable engineering department.
 
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In the current era, when Mercedes had the brilliant idea of "splitting the turbo" to allow it to both fit in the right place (for aero) and get cooler air, it proved such a game changer. Other teams complained, but they hadn't broken any rules, and in my mind, it's what F1 is all about, that ability to come up with new ideas to make the car more effective - Innovation. In 5-10 years we will se split turbos on road cars (unless we've all got EV's).

That's what gave Mercedes it's big leg up, and with a brilliant driving team along with their class leading engineering, they've proved to be very difficult to beat.....
 
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Go away Fraser. This was a good thread until you started your usual rubbish. You add nothing of substance, just posting contentious rubbish.
Not really - tell me when Alonso did anything good? He is part of the reason McLaren are so s*** now - to much time invested in one driver who can not develop a car.

They are already benefitting from him leaving the F1 team.

He was only good when he was with teams who cheated.
 
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Ignoring Fraser for the irritating troll he clearly is....

McLaren / Fernando's failure to qualify is made all the worse with the news that overnight they were provided with setup sheets, and various parts, from Andretti and Penske and reset the car accordingly.

However, for the first few practice laps on Sunday (before the rain came) the car was running horribly low. Even after raising ride height, it was still bottoming.

I can't help but feel McLaren underestimated the task (and with de Ferran and Brown involved, they really should have) and were woefully under prepared.
 
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Ignoring Fraser for the irritating troll he clearly is....

McLaren / Fernando's failure to qualify is made all the worse with the news that overnight they were provided with setup sheets, and various parts, from Andretti and Penske and reset the car accordingly.

However, for the first few practice laps on Sunday (before the rain came) the car was running horribly low. Even after raising ride height, it was still bottoming.

I can't help but feel McLaren underestimated the task (and with de Ferran and Brown involved, they really should have) and were woefully under prepared.
Exactly this.
 
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I'm not knocking Lewis, he is a rare talent, but when during his F1 career has he driven a truly poor car?
But that is probably the most important part a driver can contribute to a team.
The performance on a GP weekend is the tip of the iceberg, the feedback they give to the engineers during hours of testing is far more critical.
It's no coincidence the top drivers end in the best cars - a great deal of that is down to the driver/engineer relationship.
A reason I don't rate Alonso; he was given the full backing of McLaren but the team went backwards with him.
 
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I'm not knocking Lewis, he is a rare talent, but when during his F1 career has he driven a truly poor car?
WHen he first went to Mercedes, the car was not competitive, the Mclaren he just came from were strong, Red Bull were dominating, and Ferrari were in there too. But he still managed to win a few races that year. When he started at Mclaren they again weren't the most competitive.

A driver with his talent is always going to be picked up by one of the better teams rather than one of the others down the pit lane.
 
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WHen he first went to Mercedes, the car was not competitive, the Mclaren he just came from were strong, Red Bull were dominating, and Ferrari were in there too. But he still managed to win a few races that year. When he started at Mclaren they again weren't the most competitive.

A driver with his talent is always going to be picked up by one of the better teams rather than one of the others down the pit lane.
The Mercedes was far from a bad car when Lewis arrived in 2013...he managed 3 podiums (one due to team orders preventing Rosberg from challenging him for third in Malaysia) and just a single win.

Lewis is unusual in that he, in my opinion, has never driven a poor car in F1.
 
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Though it was a brave move by Lewis to go from the McLaren to the Mercedes at the time. I remember a lot of fans thought it was a bad idea.
Not really. The move followed a pending change in the regulations (Nasp to turbo) where it was quite obvious that being in a team who were an engine supplier would be a huge advantage. The only gamble was would the Mercedes engine be any good - it was quite obvious it would be considering the engineering resources they had and previous form.

Why would Mercedes supply the same to a competitor?

Lewis is a top drawer race driver, an excellent development driver and has been well managed through his career - a great package!
 
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The Mercedes was far from a bad car when Lewis arrived in 2013...he managed 3 podiums (one due to team orders preventing Rosberg from challenging him for third in Malaysia) and just a single win.

Lewis is unusual in that he, in my opinion, has never driven a poor car in F1.

The Merc wasn't finished when he went there, it took a couple of seasons (until they split the turbo) for it to up there with the best.
 
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The Merc wasn't finished when he went there, it took a couple of seasons (until they split the turbo) for it to up there with the best.
'But Mercedes have sold the move to Hamilton on the basis that they are preparing for a huge push in 2014, when new chassis and engine rules are introduced.'
Norbert Haug

The Mercedes was utterly dominant the year after Lewis went there (16 victories out of 19GP) and was good in 2013 - it just was crap in the hands of Schumacher in 2012!

The Car was Nasp in 2013 & turbo in 2014 - the turbo was not split at a later date - it was split at it's inception.

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ckCd9D-eBm4
 
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Niki Lauda has died. Sad news.
Just heard

Sad but given he had a lung transplant last year and survived as long as he did, major respect to one of the greats - he made 70 years of age!

RIP
 
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The Merc wasn't finished when he went there, it took a couple of seasons (until they split the turbo) for it to up there with the best.
It was a gamble going to Mercedes, but a calculated one which paid off.

The car was competitive from the get-go...in 2013 Lewis won a race and finished on the podium 3 more times, Nico won 2 races and finished on the podium a further 2 times. I'm sorry but that does not sound like a poor/uncompetetive car to me.

Also, you are incorrect about the Mercedes engine concept - the split layout was there right from the start of the turbo-hybrid era in 2014 when of course Mercedes/Lewis won their respective championships.
 
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Further (barely believeable) information re. McLaren's Indy 500 debacle:

"Among the myriad problems that afflicted them was the fallout from a decision early in the programme to build their own steering wheel. These house electronic read-outs and several controls for the car, and most Indycar teams buy them in from British company Cosworth.

When McLaren realised they had run out of time to do their own before starting testing, they ordered one from Cosworth, but when it arrived it did not have any gear-change paddles. When McLaren asked why, they were told they had not ordered them."
 
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Further (barely believeable) information re. McLaren's Indy 500 debacle:

"Among the myriad problems that afflicted them was the fallout from a decision early in the programme to build their own steering wheel. These house electronic read-outs and several controls for the car, and most Indycar teams buy them in from British company Cosworth.

When McLaren realised they had run out of time to do their own before starting testing, they ordered one from Cosworth, but when it arrived it did not have any gear-change paddles. When McLaren asked why, they were told they had not ordered them."
Sounds like someone at McLaren needs to be fired.
 
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