Grey Imports

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If you read my posts it's pretty obvious I know what I'm buying and am certainly not trying to pretend anything,but your obviously just looking to argue which I won't rise to some of us grew up some time ago
I agreed with another post about big business tax avoiders, never said grey imports isn't the same and really who's cares? This is about buying a camera which I saved £286 which is all that matters and yes of Course they've avoided tax but can I prove it? NO
Do I care? No
 
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makes me wonder then how companies like panamoz and HDEW which are in the UK can sell grey goods, unless its under the first sale and internal exhaustion regulations.
as for buying from amazon. well just because you may pay tax on it doesnt mean it ends up in the tax mans account as its been well documented about amazon and there shady tax loopholes, so by buying from them your just lining there pockets not the taxmans, so i would rather not pay at all than pay tax to a company who profits from that tax
 
What makes you think Panamoz are in the UK?
 
cowboy said:
If I buy off Panamoz etc I am buying an illegal import as they are not paying UK tax and vat.

If I buy off Amazon I am buying a legal import, paying the tax and vat BUT Amazon aren't paying it due to having a good accountant (they are probably paying the vat and then are able to claim some of it back :) )

Neither really helps the UK.

If there are savings to be made by the non payment of tax etc I would rather it was to my benefit rather than some big retailer.

:)
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Slightly fatuous argument. We are talking mainly about VAT here, which Amazon will pay after receiving the amount from the end user. They are allowed to claim back the VAT that they paid for the item.
VAT is a one time tax - it is paid by the end user, not the intermediaries.

What they avoid is Corporation Tax, something entirely different.
 
petert said:
If you read my posts it's pretty obvious I know what I'm buying and am certainly not trying to pretend anything,
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I did read your posts, you said:

petert said:
Yes I'm well aware they may not have paid taxes though it's not something you can know for sure without seeing their records
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You can't know for sure? Please.

petert said:
but your obviously just looking to argue which I won't rise to some of us grew up some time ago
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I'm not looking for an argument, you don't seem to fully understand what you're doing and repeating that I'm being childish because you can't actually address or understand (mostly because you're taking this far too personally) my points is not a smart response.

petert said:
I agreed with another post about big business tax avoiders, never said grey imports isn't the same and really who's cares? This is about buying a camera which I saved £286 which is all that matters and yes of Course they've avoided tax but can I prove it? NO
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You're not listening, the requirement isn't on Panamoz or whoever, they're not the ones avoiding the tax, the requirement is actually on you to declare the items you import.

petert said:
Do I care? No
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If you say so, you're getting awfully worked up about it though.
 
I don`t give a flyer where you buy goods from, but stating on an open internet forum that you are actually importing goods without paying import tax is downright silly.

Whether you agree or disagree with import tax, it is a legal requirement for you to declare if importing goods into the UK, so perhaps staying quiet about it would be the best course of action.
 
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petert said:
Indeed it's not people like us that are the big tax avoiders, it's the big corporations.
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You're right, but not in the way you think.

What the big corporations do is tax AVOIDANCE, and it's legal.
What people like you do is tax EVASION, and it's illegal.
 
I didn't realise I was importing anything?? In fact my d7100 was in the uk so how's that importing? Simon how can I know for sure? I just buy it not check it's travel history.
Mine was delivered from.Manchester not Hong Kong
 
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simonbarker said:
I did read your posts, you said:



You can't know for sure? Please.



I'm not looking for an argument, you don't seem to fully understand what you're doing and repeating that I'm being childish because you can't actually address or understand (mostly because you're taking this far too personally) my points is not a smart response.



You're not listening, the requirement isn't on Panamoz or whoever, they're not the ones avoiding the tax, the requirement is actually on you to declare the items you import.



If you say so, you're getting awfully worked up about it though.
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Worked up :-D just amused
 
:)) Police would be extremely busy arresting people who bought grey imports :)):-D
 
petert said:
I didn't realise I was importing anything?? In fact my d7100 was in the uk so how's that importing? Simon how can I know for sure? I just buy it not check it's travel history.
Mine was delivered from.Manchester not Hong Kong
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That's the response you're going with? You said above you knew what you were buying but OK I'll bite, you look at the company you're buying from and the answer becomes apparent very quickly. As you well know.
 
simonbarker said:
That's the response you're going with? You said above you knew what you were buying but OK I'll bite, you look at the company you're buying from and the answer becomes apparent very quickly. As you well know.
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Presumably the terms of the contract on the vendors web page would confirm one way or the other ?
 
simonbarker said:
That's the response you're going with? You said above you knew what you were buying but OK I'll bite, you look at the company you're buying from and the answer becomes apparent very quickly. As you well know.
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I didn't look into their finer details but going by the price it's obviously not a UK model your point being?
 
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petert said:
I didn't look into their finer details but going by the price it's obviously not a UK model your point being?
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Some of the grey resellers state that they only act as your agent and you are the importer of the goods. The consequence of this is that you and not them are evading the VAT / duty being liable for the charges. I note that some offer to repay any import charges which makes it pretty clear that no tax is being declared.

My point is that you seemed to infer that by showing a degree of ignorance then you abdicate all responsibility. If I have misinterpreted your post in this way then I apologise
 
No there's no ignorance I know what a grey import is and when I'm buying one, what I have been trying to say is not everyone will, many people don't even know what a grey import is and they hardly display it everywhere, I have no problem buying them purely for the better value like thousands of others and like them I don't care about the moral or legals :confused: can you explain hdew cameras?
 
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taxboy said:
Presumably the terms of the contract on the vendors web page would confirm one way or the other ?
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It's entirely possible for someone who's not familiar with these things to buy without realising as in fairness many of these companies do a good job of tucking that information away or using wording which makes it less than clear and we sometimes only see what we want to.

Saying that I doubt the above applies to many people reading this thread.
 
petert said:
No there's no ignorance I know what a grey import is and when I'm buying one, what I have been trying to say is not everyone will, many people don't even know what a grey import is and they hardly display it everywhere, I have no problem buying them purely for the better value like thousands of others and like them I don't care about the moral or legals :confused: can you explain hdew cameras?
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Nope I can't explain HDEW' s business model perhaps you might wish to ask them ??. However given that you are prepared to act illegally by your own admission then it seems we are back to the earlier post re shoplifting etc and there really doesn't seem much point in going over that with you.

What I will say is this consider 2 self employed painters who live next door in a small town. They're both equally skilled and have the same overheads. However one gets all the work because he's not paying the tax and so is cheapest the other goes bust. You're the painter who goes bust feel the same about it ??
 
Along with thousands maybe millions of others but as I said before I just look for best deal I can find like everyone else but then I don't buy cameras every day and I'm no good at painting ;-)
 
petert said:
:)) Police would be extremely busy arresting people who bought grey imports :)):-D
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Nothing to do with the police or them arresting you. It is HMRC that control import duties.

Your lack of knowledge is apparent in many of your posts in this thread. Better being quiet about it.
 
That was a joke <:eek:) really what's with some people? you need to be Einstein to buy a camera? Some people need.to get a life :-B
HMRC don't control much do they?:-D
 
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petert said:
I didn't look into their finer details but going by the price it's obviously not a UK model your point being?
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You asked how you could know but OK my point was you were well aware of the choice you were making but you also alluded that ignorance was a valid excuse, to be blunt legally it's not and as far as the thread goes you were already aware from the onset so you already have the answer to your own question.

As I said earlier no one truly cares what course you decide on but it's unwise to paint a bulls eye on your back and cheer about it, it's not the same but I am strangely reminded of when someone goes joyriding then sticks a video showing themselves doing it on YouTube.
 
Broken record comes to mind(bah) for someone that doesn't care you sure go on about it, what about everyone else on the forum that's openly admitted buying greys? Or is this a pick on one thread?
 
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Is this such a big deal in your life? If.you have one. Do you think your crusade will change anything? You can't explain hdew greys? I thought I was the ignorant one
 
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petert said:
Along with thousands maybe millions of others but as I said before I just look for best deal I can find like everyone else but then I don't buy cameras every day and I'm no good at painting ;-)
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So just to summarise tax evasion isn't really a crime to you and or the belief you won't get found out but shoplifting is serious enough on your moral compass as a step too far ??
 
so the advice it seems is to spend hours digging through company small print to find out if they have paid tax on there grey imports to there UK warehouse. might be all well and good for individual companies who have there own website but just take a look around amazon these days and see how many sellers are hong kong based yet list UK shipping address.ebay is the same.. traders listing as UK based, UK number, UK address ( address in portsmouth is one giveaway ) but half of them are overseas traders using a drop point in the UK. and not just from china either, ive seen US companies trading as a UK vendor on more than one occasion.

think some people need to go take a long walk outside in the real world though if all they can do is get worked up over buying grey goods as theres far more corruption, backhanders, illegal trading and whatever else going on in this country by the co called powers that be and super rich that would most likely give you a seizure if your going to get this worked up over saving a few quid over the occasional bit of camera gear.
 
Spy said:
What I find interesting about grey imports is that some of the sellers such as HDEW and Panamoz offer a 3 year UK warranty which is actually longer than the warranty ffered by Canon UK for their more expensive UK products.

It really makes you think although wherever possible and my pocket allows, I would prefer to buy official UK stock in order to support our UK retailers otherwise we may find that in the future, there won't be anywhere to go and browse cameras :eek:
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Right on the nail, when the local shop shuts because they cannot compete, where will buyers go to 'feel" the product. Sorry I know it costs more but the local shop is needed by a lot of us, I find it very hard to buy something off a few pictures and a review, I like to hold it, and try it for real. So please when you can support your LPS.
 
;-) Who's evading tax? we're buying a camera or lens I pay my tax every month
 
You don't know what a camera feels like? B-)
 
No getting bored with people that need a reality check
 
hmm lets see what some make of this then
clearly a china based company
they state 1 year warranty 14 day returns , local UK warehouse
yet they are cheapest around that ive found... so to most you would assume grey imported goods no tax / import duty.
yet they clearly state

Product and Price

We sourced our products globally and aimed to provide the brand new product with best price to our customer.
When you shop at our store, you do not need to worry about any hidden costs (Price includes Delivery, Import Duty & Tax). The price that you see against our items is the full cost of that item

so who am i or anyone else to believe otherwise... after all its written on the internet so it MUST be true
 
lightshipman said:
Right on the nail, when the local shop shuts because they cannot compete, where will buyers go to 'feel" the product. Sorry I know it costs more but the local shop is needed by a lot of us, I find it very hard to buy something off a few pictures and a review, I like to hold it, and try it for real. So please when you can support your LPS.
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HDEW is a local UK shop based in wallington. it started out as a high street electrical family run store and moved into the small retail park at wallington where there office/ warehouse is and where you can visit and collect your goods if you choose.
the extended warranty they offer is with a 3rd party UK based repairs centre ( which they must have a deal with ) so even though they sell grey imports you are still supporting local UK businesses
 
dean messenger said:
so the advice it seems is to spend hours digging through company small print to find out if they have paid tax on there grey imports to there UK warehouse. might be all well and good for individual companies who have there own website but just take a look around amazon these days and see how many sellers are hong kong based yet list UK shipping address.ebay is the same.. traders listing as UK based, UK number, UK address ( address in portsmouth is one giveaway ) but half of them are overseas traders using a drop point in the UK. and not just from china either, ive seen US companies trading as a UK vendor on more than one occasion.

think some people need to go take a long walk outside in the real world though if all they can do is get worked up over buying grey goods as theres far more corruption, backhanders, illegal trading and whatever else going on in this country by the co called powers that be and super rich that would most likely give you a seizure if your going to get this worked up over saving a few quid over the occasional bit of camera gear.
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I fully understand where your coming from but I believe that whilst there are serious issues that need to be tackled at high level it also helps to challenge low level behaviours. In the same way that graffiti and petty vandalism aren't crimes of the century but if you can stamp them out everyone gets a better environment
 
dean messenger said:
HDEW is a local UK shop based in wallington. it started out as a high street electrical family run store and moved into the small retail park at wallington where there office/ warehouse is and where you can visit and collect your goods if you choose.
the extended warranty they offer is with a 3rd party UK based repairs centre ( which they must have a deal with ) so even though they sell grey imports you are still supporting local UK businesses
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So their grey imports must be legal? Surely they would have been pulled over by now if they weren't? Either there's a big flaw in the law or the goodie two shoes in here don't know as much as they would like to think
 
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taxboy said:
I fully understand where your coming from but I believe that whilst there are serious issues that need to be tackled at high level it also helps to challenge low level behaviours. In the same way that graffiti and petty vandalism aren't crimes of the century but if you can stamp them out everyone gets a better environment
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grey imports are NOT illegal. yes theres certain rules behind them but essentially it is rights exhaustion and once that is in motion then there is no issue legally buying grey goods.
the issue comes more for the consumer in terms of warranty, and sometimes product packaging ( non UK plug, no instruction manual etc)
some people may also get confused between grey goods and white box goods which are totally different.

However the key factor here. is show me a retailer or reseller that specifically states the good are grey imports.
its very easy to chuck out comments like ignorance , but in all honesty how many people when looking to buy a product online do a whois search to find out the source of the product and the registered company details.
people love a bargain.pure and simple. ( why do you think ebay is so popular ) . but can you honestly say if you buy second hand you know the provenance of a piece of gear. and if it turns out the original source is a grey overseas are you then an accessory to tax evasion too?
and buying new isnt much different. its quite clear UK stores sell grey imports too soo unless you ask to see there accounts ( which they arent going to show you then its down to accepting what they state and not lose any sleep over it.
 
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