Haida Gwaii #2

Delta Skies said:
Exactly half way across the image. Just come slightly to the right of where the trees hit the water line and drop down through the water.
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Hi Peter, it occurs to me that I am the only person on the planet that is 100% sure of the truth about this image. That said I would never have imagined the simple process of taking a photo with a MF camera (Pentax 645D) saving the image as a DNG and simply posting a jpg version to a forum would cause so much angst What is all the fuss about a perceived vertical line in an image that is degraded by jpeg compression? I see more than one line myself, there are several, mostly caused by reflection of the trees.

This preoccupation with this line infers that this image was composed. IT WAS NOT! I will not respond to this innuendo any further. Please move on, I hope you will enjoy more of what I will be posting.
 
Richard C. Jones said:
Thanks for your comment Steve, I enjoy a simple compliment. :)
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So basically you'll only be happy with compliments?
Nobody is accusing you of anything. You seem awfully angry and defensive
It's a photography forum, we're naturally curious with strange phenomenon.
 
jakeblu said:
For what its worth I don't see any line perfect or otherwise, I do see a great image though.
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Steve, this was a very easy shot, for those in doubt here's my methodology. I saw the scene, I liked it, I grabbed my camera, I took off the lens cover, turned on the power auto focused and pressed that little black thingy and it gave me this picture. That's all there is to it. Thanks for your compliment Steve it is clear and uncomplicated, just the way I want to live my life. :bat:
 
Delta Skies said:
Only by pixel peeping which I don't normally do but I'm trying to work out how/why this has happened as the OP said it's virtually SOOC which I accept. I can only imagine a glitch in the original file, caused during PP, or in the upload. Hopefully the OP will take this as constructive so he can investigate further to resolve.
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OK can some tech wiz tell me how to post the original DNG or should I go to the trouble of doing a video and posting to YouTube? your choice.
 
Richard C. Jones said:
OK can some tech wiz tell me how to post the original DNG
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•


If you want to do that, just drop it in my Kodiak Drop Box
and I will upload it to my website and send you the link or
post the link directly… your choice.
 
Kevin O'Brian said:
Another one that can see a distinctive straight line running vertical centre, could have something to do with compression uploaded for the web?
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Hi Kevin, that's one of my guesses, but since I'm the only one on the planet that knows what was done to this file right up to posting it, I'm not going to ruminate about a little line that I take no responsibility for creating. It could well be a JPG compression artifact or a tree trunk reflection. At this point I realy don't care, I can simply enjoy the memory of taking that shot, and everyone who cares to can go chase their conspiracy theories. I thought a simple honest statement would satisfy reasonable people, but a few here smell a rat when there are none. BTW in Alberta we have no rats, our provincial inspectors eradicate them at the border, so Alberta is close to 100% rat free. Since I know the truth about this image I will look for the DNG bring it up in PS RAW editor and video record it and post it to youTube, and then maybe I can get a rest from this. In that regard I will hit the ignore button on "cg girl"
 
Hi Richard, it must be compression I see the file is arond 86kb and I know you have edited my images NO but seeing how this has gone I'm sure you understand I will remove soon, Alberta is a great place been with work myself and I know we all hit that shutter for a reason, my close friend who I go out shooting with has exactly the same camera and it is a big old unit as I thought you may have shot with film and it could have been that? thats that ruled out here is a crop of the area with the line thats caught Fellow Members attention. PS this is also the Critique section you have shared the image in.

 
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Ok that's me out, not really sure why I've publicly been put on ignore, I've not been rude and repeatedly stated nobody is accusing anyone of anything.
First it was Canada conditions now possibly compression, the only curiosity is what the answer was. Plain and simple, Christ I even said I liked it right at the beginning.
Not sure why the OP is so angry.
 
Kevin O'Brian said:
Hi Richard, it must be compression I see the file is arond 86kb and I know you have edited my images NO but seeing how this has gone I'm sure you understand I will remove soon, Alberta is a great place been with work myself and I know we all hit that shutter for a reason, my close friend who I go out shooting with has exactly the same camera and it is a big old unit as I thought you may have shot with film and it could have been that? thats that ruled out here is a crop of the area with the line thats caught Fellow Members attention. PS this is also the Critique section you have shared the image in.

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Hi Kevin that line is unmistakable and I see some chromatic noise as well, but who on earth would waste their time pixel peeping a rotten dysfunctional JPG? the only reason I use them is to post to the Internet. This certainly is a straight line and thank you for going to the effort. All it proves to me is how lousy JPG's are at compression, this certainly can be explained as a JPG compression artifact. On more important issues for me is the tone in this forum for as you may well not believe, I am quite capable of accepting CC. What sets me off are the hidden agenda of the passive aggressive. That's what I perceived, and after all "Perception is the reality" I encourage you to look at my other postings in the Bird section and see how I handled the CC. ;)
 
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Cg_Girl said:
So basically you'll only be happy with compliments?
Nobody is accusing you of anything. You seem awfully angry and defensive
It's a photography forum, we're naturally curious with strange phenomenon.
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This just about sums this thread up. I liked how the OP quoted Jakeblu when he couldn't see the line and ignored the post when he did spot it.

Richard - I wasn't accusing you of anything. If you re-read, maybe in grown-up mode, what I said you'll spot that I was trying to be constructive. If you want just likes then post on Facebook. Talk Photography is a great photo community from whom I have learnt an awful lot over the years through the constructive comments made by its members not just about my images but those of others as well. Please take any comments made by members as being constructive, honest and as someone said above.
 
Kodiak Qc said:
•


If you want to do that, just drop it in my Kodiak Drop Box
and I will upload it to my website and send you the link or
post the link directly… your choice.
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Merci, bon ami! I think we have come closer to amicable closure on this, Thanks for the offer.
 
Hi Richard personelly I dont think it is Pixel peeping, agree with you it is unmistakable and this is a part of the forum that is open to Critique so maybe post in photos for pleasure/general if you are still going to upload such small quality JPG's in futre posts, I have had to take one or two holidays from the froum myself in the past thats another story, however on the other hand there is plenty of outstanding photographers and knowledge here TP has been a good friend over the years thats for sure.
Bird section now that would be me lost for sure, I may pop over and have a look :eek:
 
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Delta Skies said:
This just about sums this thread up. I liked how the OP quoted Jakeblu when he couldn't see the line and ignored the post when he did spot it.

Richard - I wasn't accusing you of anything. If you re-read, maybe in grown-up mode, what I said you'll spot that I was trying to be constructive. If you want just likes then post on Facebook. Talk Photography is a great photo community from whom I have learnt an awful lot over the years through the constructive comments made by its members not just about my images but those of others as well. Please take any comments made by members as being constructive, honest and as someone said above.
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You show your arrogance once again (assuming I ignored a post for my own convenience) by making assumptions about someone you don't know, and before you come back with more rhetorical hyperbole, let me point out that adult conversation on line is too easy to misconstrue as evidenced by your reaction to my response. Just more passive aggression with the words "grown up mode" grow a pair and tell me I'm childish and accept the consequences.
 
This is weird! Obvious straight vertical split in the image gets mentioned. All sorts of shenanigans ensue. Post five (or six? or so? whatever) we're told it's sooc. Then as the tale unfolds we're told it's more or less sooc. Then we're told that, well, it's obviously had the usual edits that we all do. Hmm, which is it, one wonders.....
 
Kevin O'Brian said:
Hi Richard personally I don't think it is Pixel peeping, agree with you it is unmistakable and this is a part of the forum that is open to Critique so maybe post in photos for pleasure/general if you are still going to upload such small quality JPG's in futre posts, I have had to take one or two holidays from the for4um myself in the past thats another story, however on the other hand there is plenty of outstanding photographers and knowledge here TP has been a good friend over the years thats for sure.
Bird section now that would be me lost for sure, I may pop over and a look :eek:
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Kevin, I have been well received in the bird section, maybe it a matter of "Birds of a feather...." I do value your last post which is already making me regret the one I posted just prior to this, you do seem to display more tolerance than me. That said, I feel extremely provoked by the tone starting out with the line, it was stated that "t appears to be two photos stuck together" . I explained that it was not a composite photo then it all hit the fan, I'm not used to this kind of posting and reacted by showing my anger. I have posted in the bird section and was met with the most amicable response. If you can accept my apology for my previous post, I will be most grateful.:). Now I'm going to post more from the Haida Gwaii.
 
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Richard C. Jones said:
Andrew, from your avatar, I'm guessing you are involved in falconry, am I correct?
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Afraid not, It was just a meeting with some falconers on the golf course where I took the photos and I liked it as an avtar. Stunning bird but I've been knocked because there was a horizon line in the background LOL
 
AJR SIMPSON said:
Afraid not, It was just a meeting with some falconers on the golf course where I took the photos and I liked it as an avtar. Stunning bird but I've been knocked because there was a horizon line in the background LOL
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Ahh, whether it is better to suffer the slings and arrows of outrageous forum posters.....:)
 
Richard C. Jones said:
Please don't feel intimidated by my colonial boy rough edges and ya dersent needs ta be callin me sir.
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I'm from a remote part of the Scottish Highlands so little intimidates us, you come over as smooth as silk and the use of Sir is more a sarcastic use of the word in our blunt vocabulary :)
 
Richard, I apologise if my comment caused offence. Having slept on it I shouldn't have added that. It was born from the frustration of seeing many people on here in the past reject what are trying to be constructive comments from other members. I'd like to add that I do believe you regarding your comments on the lack of editing. As suggested above I also suspect it was down to compression at upload which is another good reason I would never rely on photo sites like Flickr to be the definitive storage for my images. I wish you well in your continued journey on TP.
 
Can we see the original DNG then please? I'm not accusing you of anything but am genuinely interested. It seems like a very odd JPEG artifact and I'm curious how different it is from the original photo. You can just do Dropbox or we transfer.com and paste the link here.
 
Richard C. Jones said:
In that regard I will hit the ignore button on "cg girl"
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Richard - as a newbie to this forum you may not have been informed, so please take this as a word to the wise...

We provide a "ignore" button for people you may not wish to see further contributions from. Use it as you wish. BUT, please be aware, "we" (the staff) do not consider it good forum etiquette to publicly state that "i'm ignoring ......... now". Hit the button as you see fit to avoid futher arguments, but don't publish the fact or you may find that someone in charge decides that the forum at large will ignore you for a couple of days or more...

That goes for anyone else BTW... Personally, I don't see why people can't just plain old ignore things using their own brain-power, like we staff have to (ignoring people as staff would be counter prodictive, as the very people we'd choose not to see on the forum are the very ones that we spend most of our time having to deal with... of course, eventually, they generally DO find themselves not on the forum ;) )
 
Delta Skies said:
Richard, I apologise if my comment caused offence. Having slept on it I shouldn't have added that. It was born from the frustration of seeing many people on here in the past reject what are trying to be constructive comments from other members. I'd like to add that I do believe you regarding your comments on the lack of editing. As suggested above I also suspect it was down to compression at upload which is another good reason I would never rely on photo sites like Flickr to be the definitive storage for my images. I wish you well in your continued journey on TP.
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Thank you Peter, you are a class act and I am happy to keep posting my work here, sincerely it means a lot to me to have someone say they believe me about not posting a composite image. Thanks for your gentlemanly and courageous response.
htid said:
Can we see the original DNG then please? I'm not accusing you of anything but am genuinely interested. It seems like a very odd JPEG artifact and I'm curious how different it is from the original photo. You can just do Dropbox or we transfer.com and paste the link here.
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Sure my friend we could, but I prefer to Skype. are you on Skype? It would be easier to share my screen if it suites you, please don't hold your breath waiting for this file, I will attend to it ASAP but it was shot more than two years ago and so it will be a challenge to find it, no kidding, no ducking. I'm OK with showing you the file, but I don't want a high res copy of a DNG circulating to god knows where. I'm sure no one in photography wants to put out a copy of an original DNG. I know I offered but now I have had time to consider how unwise that is. I am however willing to show you on line or make a short video and post on YouTube. A caveat though, I will not tolerate any attempt to prove this is a composite and this post is no way an effort on my part to avoid being caught in an attempt to lie. I have been honest and forthright and any attempt to discredit my honesty and integrity will make me pull the plug and move on. I have already spent far too much time on this. I have more important things to do, like fire my divorce lawyer and represent myself. as I am in another case, a matter in which I also am self represented, its challenging and needs my full attention, so I ask that you be courteous and considerate until I give you reason not to. Now it's after 04:00 my time and I need to take my meds and get some sleep. Good night.
 
TheBigYin said:
Richard - as a newbie to this forum you may not have been informed, so please take this as a word to the wise...

We provide a "ignore" button for people you may not wish to see further contributions from. Use it as you wish. BUT, please be aware, "we" (the staff) do not consider it good forum etiquette to publicly state that "i'm ignoring ......... now". Hit the button as you see fit to avoid futher arguments, but don't publish the fact or you may find that someone in charge decides that the forum at large will ignore you for a couple of days or more...

That goes for anyone else BTW... Personally, I don't see why people can't just plain old ignore things using their own brain-power, like we staff have to (ignoring people as staff would be counter prodictive, as the very people we'd choose not to see on the forum are the very ones that we spend most of our time having to deal with... of course, eventually, they generally DO find themselves not on the forum ;) )
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Thanks for the heads up, I was wondering how long it would take for an intervention, and I was worried I may have crossed the line on some of my responses.I like this site far more than any others I have encountered I hope to continue participating. That said I much prefer to deal with people who are direct and brave enough to make their statement and take responsibility for the consequences rather than having to deal with passive aggressive's who whine and belly ache when they get return fire. If this is not in keeping with your policy and denies me the right to defend myself, then I will gladly move on. All the flaming and back and forth is taking up far too much of my time. I came to this forum for fun and learning, and I have not been disappointed in some cases, but in others I have felt intimidated and thus seriously p***ed. I hope you can understand, if not, then I am happy as I already stated, to move on.
 
Richard C. Jones said:
Thank you Peter, you are a class act and I am happy to keep posting my work here, sincerely it means a lot to me to have someone say they believe me about not posting a composite image. Thanks for your gentlemanly and courageous response.

Sure my friend we could, but I prefer to Skype. are you on Skype? It would be easier to share my screen if it suites you, please don't hold your breath waiting for this file, I will attend to it ASAP but it was shot more than two years ago and so it will be a challenge to find it, no kidding, no ducking. I'm OK with showing you the file, but I don't want a high res copy of a DNG circulating to god knows where. I'm sure no one in photography wants to put out a copy of an original DNG. I know I offered but now I have had time to consider how unwise that is. I am however willing to show you on line or make a short video and post on YouTube. A caveat though, I will not tolerate any attempt to prove this is a composite and this post is no way an effort on my part to avoid being caught in an attempt to lie. I have been honest and forthright and any attempt to discredit my honesty and integrity will make me pull the plug and move on. I have already spent far too much time on this. I have more important things to do, like fire my divorce lawyer and represent myself. as I am in another case, a matter in which I also am self represented, its challenging and needs my full attention, so I ask that you be courteous and considerate until I give you reason not to. Now it's after 04:00 my time and I need to take my meds and get some sleep. Good night.
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Thanks for your reply and offer but I will pass. You offered a DNG and of course it's your right to change your mind :) I don't feel Skype with its lower resolution video will be able to show me clear enough. Anyway I'm not a landscape photographer so I'm not that interested, I was just curious how the original shot looked. Thanks anyway.
 
Richard C. Jones said:
Thanks for the heads up, I was wondering how long it would take for an intervention, and I was worried I may have crossed the line on some of my responses.I like this site far more than any others I have encountered I hope to continue participating. That said I much prefer to deal with people who are direct and brave enough to make their statement and take responsibility for the consequences rather than having to deal with passive aggressive's who whine and belly ache when they get return fire. If this is not in keeping with your policy and denies me the right to defend myself, then I will gladly move on. All the flaming and back and forth is taking up far too much of my time. I came to this forum for fun and learning, and I have not been disappointed in some cases, but in others I have felt intimidated and thus seriously p***ed. I hope you can understand, if not, then I am happy as I already stated, to move on.
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Its quite simple Richard - if you feel you've been on the recieving end of any personal insults, there's a "report" link below each post. Simply report the post, with a quick note saying what you feel is wrong, and one of the staff will look at it. DON'T Bite back, and especially, DON'T start throwing personal insults around, or you'll end up being the one who gets reported and sanctioned. Leave the moderating of the forum to us poor benighted souls who don't have a choice.

I must admit, in this thread, having read everything, I don't honestly see anything where you've been insulted, or your honesty impugned - there HAVE been a few posts where people are being a trifle obsessive about tiny details - but this is the landscape section - if you start by saying that something it "Straight out of Camera" then people WILL start and look for signs of PP... Frankly, I can see the "line" that has been mentioned. Does it bother me - not in the slightest. I've put it down to compression artifacts, compressing a shot from a MF camera down to 1024x768 and 84kb is always going to b*****ks up the image quality somewhere or other. I don't get hung up on Image Quality in display on this forum... Now if I was stood in front of a 50" wide print of it, and I could see the same lines, then i'd be suggesting you had your camera checked out. But, ultimately, I'm more interested in the mood conveyed by the picture, and what you were trying to "say" with it than any of the colour balance crap or "rule of thirds" guff... Probably why my critique isn't often all that appreciated in this section I guess...
 
TheBigYin said:
Its quite simple Richard - if you feel you've been on the recieving end of any personal insults, there's a "report" link below each post. Simply report the post, with a quick note saying what you feel is wrong, and one of the staff will look at it. DON'T Bite back, and especially, DON'T start throwing personal insults around, or you'll end up being the one who gets reported and sanctioned. Leave the moderating of the forum to us poor benighted souls who don't have a choice.

I must admit, in this thread, having read everything, I don't honestly see anything where you've been insulted, or your honesty impugned - there HAVE been a few posts where people are being a trifle obsessive about tiny details - but this is the landscape section - if you start by saying that something it "Straight out of Camera" then people WILL start and look for signs of PP... Frankly, I can see the "line" that has been mentioned. Does it bother me - not in the slightest. I've put it down to compression artifacts, compressing a shot from a MF camera down to 1024x768 and 84kb is always going to b*****ks up the image quality somewhere or other. I don't get hung up on Image Quality in display on this forum... Now if I was stood in front of a 50" wide print of it, and I could see the same lines, then i'd be suggesting you had your camera checked out. But, ultimately, I'm more interested in the mood conveyed by the picture, and what you were trying to "say" with it than any of the colour balance crap or "rule of thirds" guff... Probably why my critique isn't often all that appreciated in this section I guess...
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This a late coming though and edit. We Canadians have an international reputation for being overly polite (but not me, I was born in Liverpool) I have lived in Canada for more than fifty years, However some of the Canadian stuff has rubbed off for example, we don't go in for group sex because it involves writing too many thank you notes:naughty:
 
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after being accused by you of making composite images in the transport thead,i am taking an interest in your replies and how you feel about being accused of manipulating this image....the line is blatantly there in the image.
 
When posting pictures here via Photobucket I've seen, oh I forget what you call it... lines in the sky... which are not visible in the original image on my screen but I've never seen a line down the centre like this. I'd be interested to know what caused this.
 
woof woof said:
When posting pictures here via Photobucket I've seen, oh I forget what you call it... lines in the sky... which are not visible in the original image on my screen but I've never seen a line down the centre like this. I'd be interested to know what caused this.
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•


I was not aware of that since I don't use any social média.
I can't grab, though, why nor how it would happen but I read
here that some pictures posted on TP are better elsewhere
too… all that is "voodoo like" to me.

I know Richard is a painter and that he likes composing images
at times. I know that he sees it, rightfully IMO, as an art form.

Given his experience and enthusiasm in imaging and composing,
if he says it is not, I have no reason to doubt or believe otherwise.
Uncle buck said:
Have to agree definitely a line there
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I see it too… but can't explain it!
 
The obvious answer/explanation is clumsy PP/compositing but the man of honour claims it's an SOOC, unmanipulated shot... I always shoot JPEG and while I have seen banding in skies after quality reduction to reduce file size, I've never seen two halves of a file separated like this.
 
Kodiak Qc said:
•


I was not aware of that since I don't use any social média.
I can't grab, though, why nor how it would happen but I read
here that some pictures posted on TP are better elsewhere
too… all that is "voodoo like" to me.

I know Richard is a painter and that he likes composing images
at times. I know that he sees it, rightfully IMO, as an art form.

Given his experience and enthusiasm in imaging and composing,
if he says it is not, I have no reason to doubt or believe otherwise.

I see it too… but can't explain it!
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I'm sure it's to do with compression and optimising images for web use.

Personally it's pretty much voodoo to me too but as I'm only a casual on line poster I can't be bothered to devote any brain power or time to trying to do it (posting images on line) properly but I am pretty sure that for the best results the effects of downsizing an image and posting it on line need to be taken into account and countered. I'd imagine that the much larger files we get from todays latest cameras may suffer relatively more from clumsy downsizing and on line posting and indeed that's what I've found with some of my more high dynamic range Sony A7 shots.

Yes, I see the line in the shot in question.
 
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