How Creative are you..............Really?

big soft moose said:
I'm sorry but now you've strayed in gortch territory "you can think what you like but i'm right and your wrong" is not a sensible grounds for discussion, if you think that then the discussion is over before it starts.
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I thought the idea of a discussion was to put people right when they are wrong. Must be the taint of Yorkshire blood in my veins...:D

big soft moose said:
If you were as much as an expert as you think you are you'd recognise that (as David indeed did , ref wordswortth/Keroac etc)
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Ooh. The scathing put-down... :rolleyes:

If Wordsworth hadn't been born in Cumbria would he have been inspired to write his poetry elsewhere, or would he have moved to The Lakes? He wrote poetry about other places, after all. I suggest that while place can determine the way work develops it doesn't make people creative out of nothing. It's a chicken and egg thing.
 
Steve said:
I could get that up to 14.02 if I lived in a windmill and wore a kaftan.
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careful you don't get it caught on the sails
 
Ed Sutton said:
I
If Wordsworth hadn't been born in Cumbria would he have been inspired to write his poetry elsewhere, or would he have moved to The Lakes? He wrote poetry about other places, after all. I suggest that while place can determine the way work develops it doesn't make people creative out of nothing. It's a chicken and egg thing.
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indeed - but they were places that inspired him, he didnt write "an ode to the inside of a dreary dwelling house" as far as i'm aware
 
Ed Sutton said:
What cobblers this 'everyone's opinion is equally valid' is. Unfortunately it seems to abound on the 'democratic' internet.
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Why i have just wasted precious moments of my life conversing with you I have no idea. Can you not understand the simplicity of this ? If i lived in a windmill I would not spend all day taking photos of it ! However the fresh air , beautiful views and history of my home would certainly be more inspirational to me than a three bed semi and staring at a motorway. Furthermore i already do take inspiration from everywhere , my work covers everything from office buildings to architecture to industry to urban decay not to mention weddings which are packed with creative potential and commercial work which demands creative ideas.

You by the way have outwitted yourself with the phrase "Pookeyhead works in education with creative people, so his opinion should carry more weight on this subject than someone who shovels s*** for a living"

according to your previous comments shovelling s*** for a living should not make you any less creative, just as where you live apparently has nothing to do with it.

If you are going to enter a debate best to be consistent with your reasoning.
 
big soft moose said:
indeed - but they were places that inspired him, he didnt write "an ode to the inside of a dreary dwelling house" as far as i'm aware
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No.. but many great poets have written about such subjects. Are you suggesting only great poetry is written about pastoral landscapes and daffodils now? :)
 
TP or not TP


Light falling through the blackout gap weaves its way across my vision
challenging me to look away from the monitor to the green fields beyond my window
the melancholy hum of the the motorway drowned out by the rhythmic pulsating house music emanating from the wooden box on my window ledge
another light flickers as another batteries life is refreshed, they sit in a row like obedient soldiers just awaiting their next task
my fingers dance away on the keyboard sending out messages across the net for some to see and some forget
and then .... inspired by a cup of coffee delivered by a lovely dark haired girl - I post a photo and wait
last nights freezing cold antics on the top of a hill
fumbling with the settings with frozen hands
braving the late night Rottweiler walker in the dark
to get a photo of an Angel in the Stars
will people like it
will the noise be too high
will the horizon be wonky
or too many stars in the sky
another day passes another hour gone
moments of life - just part of its song



created in a three bedroom terrace house on the edge of an industrial city, wishing i was in a windmill :)
 
The whole point of creativity is that it exists no matter where the person is, it comes from inside them. There have been great works of art (of all kinds) created in horrific conditions, idyllic conditions and all the mundane conditions in between.

Obviously the person can be influenced by what is around them, but that isn't the source of the creativity it's a resource that the 'artist' uses.

If I spend my time taking urban shots (I love taking photos in Salford too as it's where I was born and raised), are they more creative if I live in a lighthouse or barn? Are they more creative if I live in the city centre? It's obvious that it doesn't affect it at all, as the decisions were made by me, not the house I could afford or the clothes I can make for myself.
 
Andrew Davies Photography said:
You by the way have outwitted yourself with the phrase "Pookeyhead works in education with creative people, so his opinion should carry more weight on this subject than someone who shovels s*** for a living"

according to your previous comments shovelling s*** for a living should not make you any less creative, just as where you live apparently has nothing to do with it.

If you are going to enter a debate best to be consistent with your reasoning.
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I don't think he meant that someone who shovels **** can't be creative or gain inspiration from his surroundings, but rather that person's opinion on what inspires creatives is probably less reliable than someone who actually earns their living inspiring creatives. In the same way that I'd be far less qualified to discuss the merits of shovelling ****... because I know nothing about it... or managing a hedge fund, or how to run a successful management meeting... I have no interest in such things, and therefore know nothing. I am entitled to give my opinion on the subject, of course, but would my opinion be as valid as a hedge fund manager's? No.. of course not.
 
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Andrew Davies Photography said:
TP or not TP


Light falling through the blackout gap weaves its way across my vision
challenging me to look away from the monitor to the green fields beyond my window
the melancholy hum of the the motorway drowned out by the rhythmic pulsating house music emanating from the wooden box on my window ledge
another light flickers as another batteries life is refreshed, they sit in a row like obedient soldiers just awaiting their next task
my fingers dance away on the keyboard sending out messages across the net for some to see and some forget
and then .... inspired by a cup of coffee delivered by a lovely dark haired girl - I post a photo and wait
last nights freezing cold antics on the top of a hill
fumbling with the settings with frozen hands
braving the late night Rottweiler walker in the dark
to get a photo of an Angel in the Stars
will people like it
will the noise be too high
will the horizon be wonky
or too many stars in the sky
another day passes another hour gone
moments of life - just part of its song



created in a three bedroom terrace house on the edge of an industrial city, wishing i was in a windmill :)
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That was terrible... please buy a windmill.
 
XA2inmypocket said:
Didn't William Morris idealise the carpentry craftsman in his simple cottage, for his creativity in creating a simple yet beautiful chair?
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Simple cottage - a thing of beauty made of natural stone probably with a roaring hearth fire and wooden beams across its roof built lovingly by hand by a man for his family . . . . . . changed my mind , i want to swap the windmill for a simple cottage now
 
"One day I missed a train from Pendlebury - (a place) I had ignored for seven years — and as I left the station I saw the Acme Spinning Company's mill ... The huge black framework of rows of yellow-lit windows standing up against the sad, damp charged afternoon sky. The mill was turning out... I watched this scene — which I'd looked at many times without seeing — with rapture..."

A quote from a man born in Stretford and then raised in Rusholme and Pendlebury. Not a windmill or cottage in sight, but he saw something that led to a large number of works of art, because it was him that was creative and not the surroundings.

quick edit for anyone not familiar with Manchester: Stretford/Rusholme/Pendlebury are not full of rolling hills and streams :)
 
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Andrew Davies Photography said:
Simple cottage - a thing of beauty made of natural stone probably with a roaring hearth fire and wooden beams across its roof built lovingly by hand by a man for his family . . . . . . changed my mind , i want to swap the windmill for a simple cottage now
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I have a feeling that at some point, Morris also suggested that Art was dead, killed by Capital.
 
Andrew Davies Photography said:
Simple cottage - a thing of beauty made of natural stone probably with a roaring hearth fire and wooden beams across its roof built lovingly by hand by a man for his family . . . . . . changed my mind , i want to swap the windmill for a simple cottage now
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Idealised view. That cottage was probably a damp, badly lit hovel for it's original inhabitants. This idealised view of "the land" is a modern view. A few hundred years ago, you'd be thought of as an idiot for wanting to live in the countryside. It was regarded as dirty, uncouth and full of dangerous people and peasants.


You get your inspiration from wherever you are for whatever reason you get it, but what house you live in has bugger all to do with it. Granted, for some people, WHERE that house is might be a source of inspiration, but if you think your photography will suddenly take on a new dimension because you live in a cottage you're deluded.
 
Pookeyhead said:
I don't think he meant that someone who shovels **** can't be creative or gain inspiration from his surroundings, but rather that person's opinion on what inspires creatives is probably less reliable than someone who actually earns their living inspiring creatives. In the same way that I'd be far less qualified to discuss the merits of shovelling ****... because I know nothing about it... or managing a hedge fund, or how to run a successful management meeting... I have no interest in such things, and therefore know nothing. I am entitled to give my opinion on the subject, of course, but would my opinion be as valid as a hedge fund manager's? No.. of course not.
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That was my (apparently hidden) meaning. .:)
 
Pookeyhead said:
I don't think he meant that someone who shovels **** can't be creative or gain inspiration from his surroundings, but rather that person's opinion on what inspires creatives is probably less reliable than someone who actually earns their living inspiring creatives. .
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I thought you were a lecturer in photography at a polytechnic

that aside - someone who shovels s*** for a living, or manages a hedge fund, or whatever is the most likely (indeed only ) person able to give a conclusive view on what it is that inspires them to be creative... because its different for each of us...

I agree that a beautiful house in the country isnt a prerequisite for everyone - sassoon, owen, etc were 'inspired' by the horror of the trenches

but no one , regardless of their background, is able to conclusively state what moves any person other than themselves to creativity
 
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big soft moose said:
I thought you were a lecturer in photography at a polytechnic
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.

There's been no such thing as a polytechnic since 1992 Pete... do keep up dear chap.
 
Pookeyhead said:
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There's been no such thing as a polytechnic since 1992 Pete... do keep up dear chap.
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okay an ex ploytechnic then - point remains (and no offense intended) that "making a living inspiring creatives" is a very romantic description for lecturing on photography to a bunch of undergraduates , many of whom are probably actually thinking about the forthcoming college disco, that fit girl in the front row, or what is good for a hangover (other than drinking heavily the night before;) )
 
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Pookeyhead said:
My thoughts exactly.
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I think daryl is suggesting that painting his love spuds (or getting lindsay to do it for him) is what moves him to creativity.... this is a long running in joke since he interviewed her on the 'interview a pro' thread
 
big soft moose said:
okay an ex ploytechnic then - point remains (and no offense intended) that "making a living inspiring creatives" is a very romantic description for lecturing on photography to a bunch of undergraduates , many of whom are probably actually thinking about the forthcoming college disco, that fit girl in the front row, or what is good for a hangover (other than drinking heavily ;) )
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Pete... seriously.. you've got no idea what you're talking about.

The vast majority of universities are ex-polytechnics Pete. Please at least have the courtesy of TRYING to know what you're talking about.
 
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Pookeyhead said:
Pete... seriously.. you've got no idea what you're talking about.

The vast majority of universities are ex-polytechnics Pete. Please at least have the courtesy of TRYING to know what you're talking about.
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i remember well what it was like to be a student David. you may think they are all sat there inspired and hanging on your every word with rapt attention - but unless you are a very unusual lecturer I strongly doubt it

and by the way there are 91 universities in the uk - 32 of them are ex polytechnics - which doesnt qualify as a vast, or indeed any kind of, majority

as I said though i didn't intend this as a personal slight - you may be a wonderful lecturer, and your institution may be a shining light of academic brilliance in the study of photography - however I don't accept that being even the best lecturer in photography endows you with mystic insight into what makes every other person creative , or that this makes your opinion on the subject significantly more weighty than anyone elses.
 
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big soft moose said:
i remember well what it was like to be a student David. you may think they are all sat there inspired and hanging on your every word with rapt attention - but unless you are a very unusual lecturer I strongly doubt it

and by the way there are 91 universities in the uk - 32 of them are ex polytechnics - which doesnt qualify as a vast, or indeed any kind of, majority

as I said though i didn't intend this as a personal slight - you may be a wonderful lecturer, and your institution may be a shining light of academic brilliance in the study of photography - however I don't accept that being even the best lecturer in photography endows you with mystic insight into what makes every other person creative , or that this makes your opinion on the subject significantly more weighty than anyone elses.
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Wow... it took you this long to read that Wikipedia page? LOL It's not accurate BTW... there are more than 32 ex polys. That article only lists those with Honours degree awarding powers and ignores those with FdA awarding powers, and does not include those who's degrees are awarded by another university, and are therefore regarded as an associate college of that university.

Of course you intended it as a personal slight... at least have the courage of your convictions man!! Get a backbone! At least I respect people who do, regardless of their treatment of me. Why else say "I thought you were a lecturer in photography at a polytechnic" when questioning whether I earn my living by inspiring creative people?

I can honestly say that the vast majority of our students are exactly as described... and it shows in their work. I, like many others, tend to think a creative person's worth is measured by their work. Talking of which.. where's yours Pete? Not seen much of that BTW.

As for being able to tell people what motivates them and spurs their creativity better then they are able to themselves, you'd be surprised. If I had £100 for every time I met someone who knew exactly what fires their creativity, only to have them realise they were wrong after three years... well.. perhaps I'd be living in a windmill.
 
Pookeyhead said:
Why else say "I thought you were a lecturer in photography at a polytechnic" when questioning whether I earn my living by inspiring creative people?
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because i'm questioning whether any lecturer at a polytechnic (or indeed any university) really makes their living by "inspiring creatives" - its not a personal slight to you , i have no knowledge of what you are like as a lecturer - I do however remember various lecturers at crewe and alsager where i went (now part of man met) who thought they were the bees knees and incredibly inspirational to their students (in general i mean , I didnt study photography) but we all thought were boring old bastards


Pookeyhead said:
Talking of which.. where's yours Pete? Not seen much of that BTW.
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mostly in the same place yours is - ie not on this site. That said I am doing a 52 if you want to have a look, i'd even welcome your critique if you are intellectually honest enough to give it objectively rather than deriding the work due to our personal differences.


Pookeyhead said:
As for being able to tell people what motivates them and spurs their creativity better then they are able to themselves, you'd be surprised. If I had £100 for every time I met someone who knew exactly what fires their creativity, only to have them realise they were wrong after three years... well.. perhaps I'd be living in a windmill.
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with respect david you are talking about students again - the average 18 year old has trouble telling their arse from their elbow , so its not suprising that they've changed their mind by the time they reach 21. However the majority of the membership here are somewhat older and more experienced and I'd bet money that you havent got the first idea what it is that motivates me (for example) to creativity (in the wider sense - bearing in mind that i'm a writer, woodturner and carver as well as a photographer)
 
My mum worked for Middlesex poly as a secretary in the art department. Some brilliantly talented artists, I still have some line art that's brilliant.
 
Pookeyhead said:
Wow... it took you this long to read that Wikipedia page? LOL It's not accurate BTW... there are more than 32 ex polys. That article only lists those with Honours degree awarding powers and ignores those with FdA awarding powers, and does not include those who's degrees are awarded by another university, and are therefore regarded as an associate college of that university.
.
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that is it ignores those that arent actually universities - strange that
 
big soft moose said:
because i'm questioning whether any lecturer at a polytechnic (or indeed any university) really makes their living by "inspiring creatives"
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Obviously.... but why are you doing that? Why the scepticism? What else do you think we do?

big soft moose said:
- its not a personal slight to you , i have no knowledge of what you are like as a lecturer - I do however remember various lecturers at crewe and alsager where i went (now part of man met) who thought they were the bees knees and incredibly inspirational to their students (in general i mean , I didnt study photography) but we all thought were boring old bastards
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So you're letting your own limited and out of date experience of higher education influence your view of the entire subject. Which is what I assumed.


big soft moose said:
mostly in the same place yours is - ie not on this site. That said I am doing a 52 if you want to have a look, i'd even welcome your critique if you are intellectually honest enough to give it objectively rather than deriding the work due to our personal differences.
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That would be you transferring your own personal traits onto me then. You think I give lower grades to students I don't like as well?


big soft moose said:
with respect david you are talking about students again - the average 18 year old has trouble telling their arse from their elbow , so its not suprising that they've changed their mind by the time they reach 21. However the majority of the membership here are somewhat older and more experienced and I'd bet money that you havent got the first idea what it is that motivates me (for example) to creativity (in the wider sense - bearing in mind that i'm a writer, woodturner and carver as well as a photographer)
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While irrelevant... they're at least 19... you can't enrol on a HE course unless you're 19.... or you are 19 by the time the course starts. only around half of this years entry were 19. The rest range from 26 to 43... Last year our oldest student was 67. You can't level that accusation at those can you Pete?

No.. I've no idea what motivates you Pete...no idea whatsoever... but I don't work with you 5 days a week like I do my students. I DO know what motivates them.


big soft moose said:
that is it ignores those that arent actually universities - strange that
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In their own right, no, as many are actually associate colleges of other universities. If you gain a degree from Blackpool, it's actually from Lancaster university - we're merely a college of Lancaster. Lancaster are happy with what we do, as are QAA, and the AoP, and the RPS and the BIPP and industry in general. Just you... a bloke on the net... who actually has no experience of the subject being discussed seems to have a problem with any of this :) Just t put things into perspective for you.
 
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It's turned into a lively debate mostly... except when the usual suspects troll it with thinly disguised personal attacks. Not that the OP was anything other than a troll post anyway... I mean.. fancy asking such a question in TP... I mean... what else did you expect?
 
Andrew Davies Photography said:
so his opinion should carry more weight on this subject than someone who shovels s*** for a living
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I have a friend who told me he shovels s*** for a living when I first met him. I thought he was using it as a generic term for a terrible job but it turned out that he works for Southern Water and does actually shovel it!


Steve.
 
I used to shovel it (actually, fork it!) for a living - well, at least some of the job involved forking it or pushing it around or spreading it over fields!
 
Nod said:
I used to shovel it (actually, fork it!) for a living - well, at least some of the job involved forking it or pushing it around or spreading it over fields!
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'nowt wrong with that. Someone's got to do it.
 
Just for the record, I never went to university, but my other half did and now my daughter is [shockingly, at another ex polytechnic] and I can tell you their experiences are vastly different! The pressure is very much on the students to study, to attend, to do the work, to pay attention, in a way it never was 35 years ago, when the only pressure was to make damn sure you passed the end of year exams regardless of what you did in between times.

However, back to the main points, I am very much of the opinion that environment does indeed influence the creatives, but that environment certainly doesn't have to be 'idyllic' in the traditional sense. Look how much great poetry, photography and novels have been inspired by living through war, nothing idyllic in that. Would moving from a less idyllic environment to one that is more so make that person more productive in their creativity? Impossible to say, even for the person concerned unless they tried - some would find that to be the case, some would simply die of boredom. So, as I see it, there is no right answer to what would be a better environment, it is a very individual choice.
 
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