How do I expose, for glamour, while shooting into the sun with fill-in flash?

[evilonion]

ah ok sorry.
thats something im yet to learn about.

I take it shooting at 1/4000 is beyond most flash's abilities then?

 

[Kaouthia]

Yes, basically due to the way the camera shutters work, the sync on Nikon bodies is limit to 1/250th, with Canon bodies, anywhere from 1/60-1/250 depending on stuff (I dunno, you'd have to ask a Canon owner).

Beyond 1/250th in AutoFP high speed sync mode, your flash is sending out pulses of flashes so that it can provide even exposure across the entire scene (which is why you lose a couple of stops, because your flash would simply blow up if it tried to do full power pops for the duration).

 

[evilonion]

ok thanks makes sense.
Im looking forward to getting the sb900 now

wail, with regards to reflators etc have you considered making a diy reflective box to put over the flash heads to direct all the light at the subject?

minimising light loss...?

 

[Kaouthia]

The SB-900 essentially has a built in reflective box, that's what happens when you zoom to 200mm on it (one of its key selling points, imo).

The flash tube itself doesn't provide any more power output, but because of the way it's designed, a lot more light is coming out of the end of the flash head, and it's a more focused beam of light.

The example shots I posted above had all the SB-900s zoomed to 200mm (and the SB-600s zoomed to 85mm, their limit).

 

[HoppyUK]

I didn't realise you were trying to beat the sun, so this comment might be relevant - you won't do it.

Rule of thumb with full mid-day sun here (sunny 16 rule) is that you need 400ws of flash to even have a chance. Even then it's marginal if you want room to manoevre with different light shapers and some flexibility with distance. A good hotshoe gun has about 60ws, and on high speed sync it will be a fraction of that, dropping to insignificant at very high shutter speeds.

If you want to fight bright sun, then you need masses of studio flash power and a stack of ND filters to get the shutter speed down to the max x-sync. It's like pushing water uphill.

Being realistic, a huge silver reflector is your best option and if you're careful to select a darker background while angling the reflector to direct the sun most efficiently, that's probably as close as you'll get. But conversely, when the sun gets lower and the light level with it, you're options are greatly increased.

 

[Kaouthia]

I didn't realise you were trying to beat the sun, so this comment might be relevant - you won't do it.

Plenty of others have. With Canon you might not be able to do it.

 

[itsdavedotnet]

They don't support high speed sync.

but even a couple (maybe 3) YN460s at full power will be better than an sb900 doing the trick HSS thing.

Go for balancing rather than nuking the sun, much nicer to have the sky balanced imo, if I wanted to shoot at night, I'd do just that... autumn time you can often get away with a couple speedlights, whereas this summer I've had to use about 1000ws just to balance a group of 4 with the sky.

 

[Kaouthia]

but even a couple (maybe 3) YN460s at full power will be better than an sb900 doing the trick HSS thing.

Not really, unless he slaps 7 stops of ND over his lens and buys about 20 YN460-II flashes (the extra 200mm zoom vs. the fixed 35mm position of the YN460-II makes a HUGE difference).

Go for balancing rather than nuking the sun, much nicer to have the sky balanced imo, if I wanted to shoot at night, I'd do just that... autumn time you can often get away with a couple speedlights, whereas this summer I've had to use about 1000ws just to balance a group of 4 with the sky.

This summer I used several SB-900s & SB-600s.

Balancing the sky vs. nuking the sun is really a matter for the photographer (and their potential client) to determine and the effect they're after. What other people think of what they want to do isn't really an issue.

 

[HoppyUK]

Comment on how flash guns work.

High Speed Sync (FP Sync) strobes the flash at incredibly high speed, like 50,000 per sec, so it effectively becomes continuous light. It keeps this up for the duration of the full shutter cycle so that you can use any shutter speed. The power is limited by the capacitor that can only deliver the same amount of charge and with HSS this is spread over a few hundred much smaller pulses. How many of these pulses you actually capture depends on your shutter speed and at very high speeds it's no more than a dozen or so and the vast majority of the gun's output is simply wasted.

On the zoom head thing, that is a way of narrowing the beam of light so that it is concentrated into a smaller but brighter pool. The actual light output is not increased. It makes a useful difference when using a longer lens when clearly you don't want or need the light spread over a wide area of the scene, but the design of the zoom heads is not very efficient and the benefit falls some way short of what you might expect from the inverse square law theory.

 

[HoppyUK]

Plenty of others have. With Canon you might not be able to do it.

Realistically, there is no way you will beat full mid day sun with a hot shoe gun. Not even with Nikon.

The only way you have a chancve is by using multiple guns at very close distance, as per that McNally situation (which I'm sure he only ever did as a joke).

Tomas Whitehouse had a long thread about this and he ended up with studio heads running off a petrol generator.

 

[Kaouthia]

Realistically, there is no way you will beat full mid day sun with a hot shoe gun. Not even with Nikon.

Not with *A* hotshoe flash no, but with several, sure.

The only way you have a chancve is by using multiple guns at very close distance, as per that McNally situation (which I'm sure he only ever did as a joke).

No, I don't think that was a joke, as there's a particular set of training videos on Kelby Training that Joe also did dedicated to using AutoFP High Speed Sync mode, and plenty of other examples where he's used AutoFP.

 

[Kaouthia]

The actual light output is not increased.

The output is concentrated, so while overall it's not more light, it's the same amount of light in a smaller area, thus brighter.

It's no different to putting a long throw reflector on a studio strobe.

 

[evilonion]

Just so i get this right in my head...
The sun is very bright, and due to this would cause various issues with the image as the model would be a shadow and the sun very bright.

So you need to throw enough light onto the model to balance out the brightness of the sun?
As in get pretty close to ambient light as possible so that the image is equally exposed?

And due to this extreme amount of light you then need a very high shutterspeed and low iso and high aperture in order to actually take the picture....
being such a high shutterspeed you then need more flashes as the actual output of the flash is lower because its making hundreds of pulses of slightly low powered light? thus, needing even more flashguns...

 

[Lynton]

Glamour in the desert in Saudi?????

I thought it was a public stoning to show a bit of calf there??????

 

[Wail]

Folks, I appreciate all the feedback and I have a lot to learn.

There are many posts which I need to reply to, but I'm not home right now to be able to focus on each reply, I will get to that once I am back home.

Can I kindly ask for input on these two scenarios: -

1. Leaving the sun as is, not wanting to nuke it, how would I meter my flashes (currently they are 3 SB900), so that I get just a subtle fill-in effect?

2. When wanting to nuke the sun, using HSS, how do i meter the flashes so that they don't over-expose the shot for me?

I would much rather keep the flashes on manual, and adjusting their power strength individually; but is that the right thing to do?

Again, thank you so much for all the input, I will get back to each reply, one by one, once I am back home.

 

[Kaouthia]

Either way you're best metering them with the histogram (which is obviously a little tricky given your circumstances).

You wouldn't be able to adjust their power manually individually as such (unless you stick with just 3 flashes) if you're wanting to do high speed sync as you'd have to use CLS.

You will be able to adjust the power of different groups manually, and each group and be a group of one flash, but generally, if you've got 2 or 4 or more flashes sitting in a particular spot all clumped together, you want them all firing at the sme power anyway, so that'd be one group.

If you were able to keep within your camera's sync speed of 1/250, then you could use radio triggers and set each flash individually (but it would require somebody physically being at the flashes to adjust the power, with CLS you can do it all from the camera itself or the flash/SU-800 on the hotshoe).

 

[Wail]

Sorry, I may have mis-understod your question. I thought you were using TTL and it was over exposing, so if you just set the +/- dial to -2/3, it would help

Thank you for the clarification; and sorry if I got you, and many others confused on the matter of what I'm trying to expose for

This might be worth a shot on the cheap, go to a Car/Auto store, buy a few windscreen/dash reflectors, (to stop the dash from melting in hot countries and keep the car cooler) join together with a couple of bits or wood/brush shaft, job done for a fraction of the price of photographic reflector.

Nice idea, and we use "dashboard" protectors a lot. I will look into stapling 3 together and see what results that give me; but most importantly, how we can keep them open and taught?

Will come back to you on this

does it have to be sb900's?
if your on a budget can you not get a bank of cheap chinese flashguns?
Then upgrade your kit as you go along...?

Money is always an issue, isn't it :shrug:. In this case, it's more an issue of practicality vs. budget.

Each SB900 costs, with its' accessories, more than a reasonable Bowens starter kit. That's pretty expensive.

I've ruled out, completely, the el-cheapo simply because I want to make sure that -

1. I don't start blaming el-cheapo kit for the poor results
2. I don't go on later on to buy better kit, and hence ending spending twice
3. I want consistent colour temperature from the lights
4. I want reliable firing

But thank you for suggesting an alternative; anything thrown at me, at this stage, is good. Helps to solidify what I'm doing

 

[Wail]

Yes, basically due to the way the camera shutters work, the sync on Nikon bodies is limit to 1/250th, with Canon bodies, anywhere from 1/60-1/250 depending on stuff (I dunno, you'd have to ask a Canon owner).

Beyond 1/250th in AutoFP high speed sync mode, your flash is sending out pulses of flashes so that it can provide even exposure across the entire scene (which is why you lose a couple of stops, because your flash would simply blow up if it tried to do full power pops for the duration).

Thank you for clarifying this bit

ok thanks makes sense.
Im looking forward to getting the sb900 now

wail, with regards to reflators etc have you considered making a diy reflective box to put over the flash heads to direct all the light at the subject?

minimising light loss...?

DIY, yes it's an option if faced with no other workable solution. I am not keen on this approach, if necessity dictates.

I can order large reflectors from WHE, or Amazon; but I already have 3 different sized circular ones, and will see if these are any good along with the other pointers I've got from here.

 

[Wail]

I didn't realise you were trying to beat the sun, so this comment might be relevant - you won't do it.

, that makes it simple ; your is an opinion I highly value, and I was hoping to never hear this. I don't want to give up, not when I've come this far.

I have to build my Glamour & Implied Nudes with Nature Shots in Saudi Arabia. It's become an obsession, a serious obsession.

Rule of thumb with full mid-day sun here (sunny 16 rule) is that you need 400ws of flash to even have a chance. Even then it's marginal if you want room to manoevre with different light shapers and some flexibility with distance. A good hotshoe gun has about 60ws, and on high speed sync it will be a fraction of that, dropping to insignificant at very high shutter speeds.

Thank you for reminding me about that rule. I will probably go out there tomorrow, or Wednesday, to do some practice shots and measurements.

If you want to fight bright sun, then you need masses of studio flash power and a stack of ND filters to get the shutter speed down to the max x-sync. It's like pushing water uphill.

Pushing water uphill, I like that analogy; and makes me all the more adamant that I want to do it, a huge learning curve in there, but that's the fun bit. The results, an icing on the cake

Being realistic, a huge silver reflector is your best option and if you're careful to select a darker background while angling the reflector to direct the sun most efficiently, that's probably as close as you'll get. But conversely, when the sun gets lower and the light level with it, you're options are greatly increased.

I'll be off to do some tests tomorrow, or Wednesday, with my reflector, and to get some measurements. I will also do some real-life tests with the various reflectors I already have. If these fail, then I'll order something large (thank God for www).

Plenty of others have. With Canon you might not be able to do it.

.. In reality, I knew I was fighting fire with a petrol pump, attempting this. The local customs, weather, and my knowledge of flash is making this all the more of an impossible challenge; but I knew what I was getting into. I hope I can pull something 1/2 decent off.

 

[Wail]

but even a couple (maybe 3) YN460s at full power will be better than an sb900 doing the trick HSS thing.

I haven't the faintest clue about YN460s, would you be kind enough to elaborate as to why you believe these to be better than SB900?

Go for balancing rather than nuking the sun, much nicer to have the sky balanced imo, if I wanted to shoot at night, I'd do just that... autumn time you can often get away with a couple speedlights, whereas this summer I've had to use about 1000ws just to balance a group of 4 with the sky.

Balancing & Nuking, different effects and I hope to experiment with both and achieve something good on both fronts. How the results fare out, I'm yet to discover, and may never truly find out

Not really, unless he slaps 7 stops of ND over his lens and buys about 20 YN460-II flashes (the extra 200mm zoom vs. the fixed 35mm position of the YN460-II makes a HUGE difference).


This summer I used several SB-900s & SB-600s.

It would cost me close to £2500 to get my SB900 collection up to 8; not something I'm keen on doing. Not right now. However, if I can pull something off, something interesting and satisfying, then that may justify me going forward with more expenses of that magnitude; but for now, I will just sit and envy your Christmas tree collection of Speedlights

Balancing the sky vs. nuking the sun is really a matter for the photographer (and their potential client) to determine and the effect they're after. What other people think of what they want to do isn't really an issue.

I'll try both, just for the fun of being able to say I'm trying to nuke the sun from Saudi Arabia

Comment on how flash guns work.

High Speed Sync (FP Sync) strobes the flash at incredibly high speed, like 50,000 per sec, so it effectively becomes continuous light. It keeps this up for the duration of the full shutter cycle so that you can use any shutter speed. The power is limited by the capacitor that can only deliver the same amount of charge and with HSS this is spread over a few hundred much smaller pulses. How many of these pulses you actually capture depends on your shutter speed and at very high speeds it's no more than a dozen or so and the vast majority of the gun's output is simply wasted.

On the zoom head thing, that is a way of narrowing the beam of light so that it is concentrated into a smaller but brighter pool. The actual light output is not increased. It makes a useful difference when using a longer lens when clearly you don't want or need the light spread over a wide area of the scene, but the design of the zoom heads is not very efficient and the benefit falls some way short of what you might expect from the inverse square law theory.

Thank you for explaining how it works

Realistically, there is no way you will beat full mid day sun with a hot shoe gun. Not even with Nikon.

The only way you have a chancve is by using multiple guns at very close distance, as per that McNally situation (which I'm sure he only ever did as a joke).

I thought what he did was only a marketing ploy, a sort of stunt to show-off what he can pull-off. If he's meant it as an inspiration for others to learn and follow, then he's very bloody well succeeded with that too, much to my predicament.

Tomas Whitehouse had a long thread about this and he ended up with studio heads running off a petrol generator.

I believe I read that thread, and was hoping to do more reading on that matter at some point in the future. For now, I'm having enough trouble with finding the models and keeping the Speedlights from melting.




May be it would have been easier to learn Photoshop :bonk:

 

[Wail]

<snip>

No, I don't think that was a joke, as there's a particular set of training videos on Kelby Training that Joe also did dedicated to using AutoFP High Speed Sync mode, and plenty of other examples where he's used AutoFP.

Could you please post me a link to the Kelby Training you mention.

Just so i get this right in my head...
The sun is very bright, and due to this would cause various issues with the image as the model would be a shadow and the sun very bright.

So you need to throw enough light onto the model to balance out the brightness of the sun?
As in get pretty close to ambient light as possible so that the image is equally exposed?

And due to this extreme amount of light you then need a very high shutterspeed and low iso and high aperture in order to actually take the picture....
being such a high shutterspeed you then need more flashes as the actual output of the flash is lower because its making hundreds of pulses of slightly low powered light? thus, needing even more flashguns...

I think you've about summed it up pretty well

 

[Wail]

Glamour in the desert in Saudi?????

I thought it was a public stoning to show a bit of calf there??????

@ the public stoning bit

I've been asked this by many, and every time I type some reply I come back to think that this isn't something I'm comfortable to discuss in an open forum!

So, please excuse me for not being able to answer this question. I'm not being rude, but simply prudent.

 

[Wail]

Either way you're best metering them with the histogram (which is obviously a little tricky given your circumstances).

You wouldn't be able to adjust their power manually individually as such (unless you stick with just 3 flashes) if you're wanting to do high speed sync as you'd have to use CLS.

You will be able to adjust the power of different groups manually, and each group and be a group of one flash, but generally, if you've got 2 or 4 or more flashes sitting in a particular spot all clumped together, you want them all firing at the sme power anyway, so that'd be one group.

If you were able to keep within your camera's sync speed of 1/250, then you could use radio triggers and set each flash individually (but it would require somebody physically being at the flashes to adjust the power, with CLS you can do it all from the camera itself or the flash/SU-800 on the hotshoe).

, toilet-paper-roll is right next to me as I type; and no, I'm not typing this from my bathroom

Yes, CLS is what I've been using all the time

 

[Kaouthia]

I haven't the faintest clue about YN460s, would you be kind enough to elaborate as to why you believe these to be better than SB900?

I would say probably the price - although now I'd look at the YN560 over the YN460-II as you can zoom the head to 105mm for a bit more punch.

You can also get 5 or 6 YN560 flashes for the same price as an SB-900, but there's no TTL, CLS or FP Sync support with 'em. That wouldn't be a problem for me for most of the shooting I usually do, but I would think it might be an issue for you.
If you're in a position where you can stay below the 1/250 sync speed, and are happy with radio triggers and setting the power manually on each flash, they're a perfect alternative.

It would cost me close to £2500 to get my SB900 collection up to 8; not something I'm keen on doing. Not right now. However, if I can pull something off, something interesting and satisfying, then that may justify me going forward with more expenses of that magnitude; but for now, I will just sit and envy your Christmas tree collection of Speedlights

lol, not quite a Christmas tree yet. The SB-600 of mine I had there has since died, and the other SB-600 and one of the SB-900s were CGeezer's, hehe. But, I do plan on picking up more over the coming months.

I'll try both, just for the fun of being able to say I'm trying to nuke the sun from Saudi Arabia

You might wanna be careful using words like "nuke" and "Saudi Arabia" in the same sentence.

 

[Kaouthia]

Could you please post me a link to the Kelby Training you mention.

I *think* it's this one.

http://www.kelbytraining.com/player/index.html#tab\browse/section\categories/category\all/course\201/lesson\2873

I don't have a subscription any more so can't view it to check, but there last few videos on that deal with high speed sync.

 

[Wail]

<snip>


You might wanna be careful using words like "nuke" and "Saudi Arabia" in the same sentence.

, I think it's nuke and Iran that the world is worried about; take it from me, nuke and Saudi Arabia is the least of anyones' worries

But, it's always good to be prudent. Let me stick to what I know best, Landscape and Nature

 

[HoppyUK]

Just so i get this right in my head...
The sun is very bright, and due to this would cause various issues with the image as the model would be a shadow and the sun very bright.

So you need to throw enough light onto the model to balance out the brightness of the sun?
As in get pretty close to ambient light as possible so that the image is equally exposed?

And due to this extreme amount of light you then need a very high shutterspeed and low iso and high aperture in order to actually take the picture....
being such a high shutterspeed you then need more flashes as the actual output of the flash is lower because its making hundreds of pulses of slightly low powered light? thus, needing even more flashguns...

You got it. The biggest problem with high speed sync is it's very wasteful of power, due to the action of the focal plane shutter at high speeds. And every time you increase the shutter speed by a stop, you reduce the effective flash power by a stop, because you waste another 50% of it. So you just end up chasing your tail until you disappear up your own f/stop.

HSS is great for fill-in when you're reasonably close and have a big hotshoe gun. Basically when you don't actually need very much light. If you want the maximum amount of light from a flashgun, the only way to capture the full output of the capacitor, in one dump with no wastage, is at the camera's max x-sync speed.

The only way of increasing the power of HSS flash is with the new auto-TTL Pocket Wizards that can do quite a few things that even Canon cannot (no Nikon version yet). Unlike the basic Canon HSS system, the PWs increase the power of each HSS pulse according to the shutter speed selected, so they are more efficient.

Or rather, the PWs are a bit less inefficient. The flash still has to pulse for the duration of the shutter cycle and the duration of that cycle doesn't change a great deal whether you're at 1/500sec or 1/4,000sec so the benefit is not nearly as great as you might hope. A useful bit of help when you're in a corner, but that's your lot.

Wail, there's a guy on here who posts in the Glamour section, Jason Cole, who shoots a lot of flash in bright sun in Oz. Superb stuff on his website http://www.colestudios.com.au/magazine_model_photography/ He uses a stack of expensive Broncolor studio lights powered by battery generators, and by the looks, he waits for the sun to go down a bit

 

[Kaouthia]

the PWs increase the power of each HSS pulse according to the shutter speed selected, so they are more efficient.

I *may* be wrong, but I was under the impression that's how Nikon's AutoFP high speed sync worked too.

 

[HoppyUK]

I *may* be wrong, but I was under the impression that's how Nikon's AutoFP high speed sync worked too.

Is that true?

 

[Kaouthia]

I thought it was, hehe.

Will do some digging to find out for sure when I get back home tomorrow.

 

[Wail]

<snip>

Wail, there's a guy on here who posts in the Glamour section, Jason Cole, who shoots a lot of flash in bright sun in Oz. Superb stuff on his website http://www.colestudios.com.au/magazine_model_photography/ He uses a stack of expensive Broncolor studio lights powered by battery generators, and by the looks, he waits for the sun to go down a bit

Yup, I've been following his threads intensely, but mainly for the landscapes

I recall he has a set of DVDs, and a book out, may be worth seeing these. I'll jump off to his site now and have a look there.

But I have to say, the information here has been very helpful, thank you all

 

[tdodd]

There may be some ideas here you can use - http://strobist.blogspot.com/2008/10/great-video-on-overclocking-your-sync.html.

But often you will see photographers using reflectors and shades/scrims in super bright conditions - http://www.sunbounce.com/cms/index.php?id=beispiele0&L=1 and http://www.youtube.com/user/CaliforniaSunbounce

 

[Wail]

Had an excellent day out shooting

The reflector was a major help, as was suggested. As a matter of fact, it was the major contributor to some of the best shots.

Nuking the sun, impossible with what we currently have. As of today, added one more SB900 for our shooting tomorrow, and come Saturday another SB900 will be added :shake:

Another shoot tomorrow, this time I'll aim to use more reflectors.

Oh, the toilet-roll didn't work :thumbsdown:. I've flattened the roll onto the LCD and tried to look into it, but the amount of light bouncing back from my face was way too much. There wasn't an angle that I could use which would allow me to view the LCD without any reflection off of my face.

T-shirt, towel over head, same problem; they all suffered from light leak making it impossible to see the LCD. So, basically, until very late in to the afternoon we are shooting blind without knowing how well we've exposed our shots. Not a big issue, as we're enjoying this big time, really big time.

I wonder if a lightmeter is the way to go, to get our exposure perfect and spot-on? Got a very good deal on the Sekonic L758DR :shrug:

 

[Wail]

Friday's shoot was a contract to what Thursday's was, what a horrible shoot it was :thumbsdown:.

The model came totally unprepared, looked as if run by a herd of cows (camels in this case), nagging and complaining all the time. From the onset I was no longer keen to shoot, but had to make an effort at least for the sake of experimenting with the light and a couple of new techniques.

We'd cut the day short, didn't stay to sunset purely because I wasn't too keen to shoot with such a model.

There are probably a couple of shots that I can say are "useable", but even then, the experience of this session was not as expected. Sadly, this is one model I may not book again.

 

[Wail]

Oh yes, the extra Speedlights and reflector made a huge difference.

Thanks for all the suggestions made here

 

[Kaouthia]

Glad you managed to start getting things figured out, even if your model was a little underwhelming.

 

[Wail]

Thank you; it is as was said, pushing water uphill . Not an easy feat at all.

I've still to figure out how to view my LCD when out there. I hate shooting like this, can't see anything until it's all too late and day may be wasted.

As for the model, the one from Thursday was amazing, the one from Friday (yesterday) was a nightmare. At least had one great day shooting and a couple of days of practice.

Back to my main issue of setting the flash exposure, would a lightmeter help me get the settings for the flash strength to get things right?

 

[Kaouthia]

I really couldn't say as I've never used one outdoors for this kind of thing.

 

[Arkady]

Something else I just remembered - I saw some 'behind the scenes' shots from a movie set once which was being shot in the desert (an old John Ford Western, as I recall - if anyone knew about desert shooting it was the old Hollywood guys like Henry Hathaway and John Ford) - the subjects were all under a kind of open-ended white scrim light-tent which dropped the ambient light at least a couple of stops - the large-scale equivalent of a hand-held diffuser between the subject and the sun.
The lights were also massive - big studio spots used with giant reflectors.
Maybe not on as massive a scale, but I'd definitely think of using diffusors to mute the sunlight so as to make the off-camera flashes not have to work so hard...

I just watched Pirates of the Caribbean pt3 and the scene where they're on the desert beach in Davy Jones' Locker is obviously done under some kind of diffusors, as is the scene on the beach with the kraaken's corpse...
That white salt-pan desert under a clear sky is just the lighting problem Wail's talking about - look at the shadows - dawn or dusk, for sure not midday - I think it's maybe asking too much...

It's going to be a Cecil B. DeMille production with lots of assistants whichever way you cut it by the sounds of things.
Something else to consider being the particular security considerations given the subject matter...

 

[Wail]

Thanks Rob

It didn't even occur to me to use these large diffuser-tents; I will see if that's possible from a logistical point of view, but it sure seems like it would help.

Security, that is a concern, but we've taken suitable measure to ensure everyone working on the shoot is well catered for.

I think, if I can't get this to work in late afternoon light, I will have a change of shooting strategy.