Humble Pie

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Arkady

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Rob
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No
Apologising isn't something I tend to worry about most of the time.
In my line of work, if someone takes offense at something I say, they let me know about it pretty much straight away - sometimes in words of one syllable, punctuated with a fist. That way we don't sit and stew if someone annoys us - we clear the air and move on.
I'm good enough at my job to be able to get away with an attitude at work that some find bordering on arrogant - I prefer to think of it as self-confident, but there you go. It's come back to bite me in the bum on more than one occasion, so i'm mindful of it when I remember. But by and large, I get away with it because the folks I work with are like me.

At the end of the day, I'm in the Army. I work with others in the Army and other Armed Forces. I don't work with civilians in a civilian environment. I am a product of the training and experiences that have shaped me over the past 20 years. I spent 15 years as an Infantry NCO (Queen's Regiment then Princess of Wales's Royal Regiment) serving on operations in Northern Ireland, Africa and the Former Yugoslavia.
I have seen things that would give you nightmares. I have seen things that have given me nightmares.

My sense of humour is based on the one I find helps me with all of that - squaddie humour.
A plane crashes killing everyone on board - we laugh.
Someone gets run over by a tank - we laugh.
We laugh at pretty much anything - in an environment where sudden, violent death is a fact of life - routine almost - then laughing at it is probably the only way we stay sane.
It's not a version of 'sane' that many civilians would recognise, however.

So, if I occasionally say something that someone takes offense at, see it with an eye to where I come from - my humour is based on the misfortune and suffering of others - shadenfruede gone to the next level if you will.

If you leave an opening, I'll exploit it. It's my nature.
And to the non-Europeans here, try to remember that all humour here is based on self-deprecation and on other's suffering. We're not like you at all. Just because you speak a dialect of English, doesn't make you understand us any better.
Something I'm constantly reminded of whenever I work with the US Armed Forces.
Boy, they are strange...

And Canadians...well....:nut:
 
No explinations needed here m8,
i have worked with the Royal Engineers....now that is a strange bunch....:thumb:

MyPix
 
No problem here either.

I have seen enough of your posts to know you say it like it is when others tread lightly. I respect and value your opinons even if I don't always agree with them.
I've also learnt the way your humour runs and take it as it is meant - in fun. Very big of you to apologise to those more sensitive or new to your ways :)


;)
 
ive only been on the forum for a very short time, i cant judge, but i like your straight to the point answers on photos. I did the TA for a while a few years ago (Royal Artillery), so can understand anwyay, my wee brother is in the Black Watch, he has very similar humour. So no worries here.
 
ps, my dad was based in Aldershot for many years when he was in the Reme, and i can remember trying to crack a tortoise open at about 4 year old in our house down there. I just wanted to see what was inside :(
 
Arkady said:

No problem from me either,

It takes a big man to apologise for anything, thank you Rob! :thumb:
 
I actually wrote a lengthy reply to this thread, then I thought "sod it".
 
I think I may have trampled on some toes in the last couple of days.

Trouble with a forum like this is no-one wants to upset anyone, so we all say "ooh how lovely your photo is," when in reality it's ****e and we should all be saying - in the nicest possible way - get out and do it again (or even - "it's really ****e - why did you even bother?").
Forget trying to save it in Photoshop. Just do it again.
Two or three trips back outside and you soon learn to get it right, I can tell you.
 
Um, If I don't like somebody's photo, I tell them so.

All you need to do is employ a little tact and there's no need to have anybody upset.
 
MyPix said:
No explinations needed here m8,
i have worked with the Royal Engineers....now that is a strange bunch....:thumb:

MyPix

Oi ! Hands off the Engineers ... please !?! :hissyfit: Spent only 9 years with them (as one of them rather !) And only WE should be permitted to say "strange bunch" ... even if it is nearly true !:banghead:

Other than that, for what it is worth Arkady - I like what you say and how you say it, you are also exceedingly helpful in your own inimitable way ! :smilenod: Face value is a great place to start, and to stay ... :thumb: I am sure there are not many here who would be arrogant enough to change you !:nunu:
 
Tact....


tact...

hmm...


Sorry, what was that again?
 
Venomator said:
I am sure there are not many here who would be arrogant enough to change you !:nunu:

Even my Colonel has given up I think...
And my last CR was pretty good.:clap:
 
This pie isn't sounding all that humble now Rob. ;)
 
I have little problem with blunt replies and harsh but honest criticism when in context of the topic.

I fully understand squaddie humour, my brother is a 3 striper and has been through all the places you've mentioned and showed me pictures from his journies, and as you rightly said, they can be the stuff of nightmares :shock:

But that doesn't mean everybody will cut some slack and accept it, this is a friendly forum. The staff here work hard on keeping it that way.

If people become offended by comments/suggestions or actions of ANY member, I urge them to press the little button which says report bad post under the posters avatar. The staff will view and discuss it and majority rule decides if and what action to take.

At the end of the day, this is the internet......it's not real life, so no one needs to get upset.
 
Arkady said:
(or even - "it's really ****e - why did you even bother?").

but that is the only way we learn, and to have constructive criticisme is the only way to better an image

if your a ' pro ' you could get away with a comment like that to another ' pro ', but not with amatures m8,
it may be ' **** ' but its a steep learning curve to produce what may be acceptable to the majority,

MyPix
 
If someone says an image is bad/poor/or ******!

thats fine, as long as they give reasoned account for their thoughts, as you said mypix, it's a steep learning curve.

Some are lucky enough to spend all day taking pictuers while being paid for the pleasure, others have to pick it up in their spare time because of other more pressing commitments, as such it's slower and harder to get a grip of the curve.

The old rule of thumb applies to photographry as it does to brick laying.....spend enough time doing it and you'll get it right in the end.

Common courtesy isn't something we need to buy, so we shouldn't be afraid to use it!
 
As a new member who will be posting some pictures soon for everyone to pull to pieces, I'll be expecting (and welcoming) any comments that can help me to improve my photography skills, that's what I registered for.

At the moment I'd class myself as someone with more enthusiasm than talent, but I'm hoping with help to even up the balance a little, hopefully withough losing any enthusiasm.

This thread has actually reminded me about an email I received over Christmas from a former colleague, which was signed off with this quote.

"Be who you are and say what you feel, because those who mind don't
matter and those who matter don't mind." - Dr. Seuss, 1904 - 1991

A bit sentimental, but I can see where he was coming from.
 
having been a member on a few photo forums I fully understand that the written word can cause offence where it wasn't meant. You can't after all see the poster's expression on their face, hear the tone of their voice...I try to take a step back from what first appears to be a curt posting and see if I can read it in a different way....I really do try honest lol....it is all too easy to take offence and be confident in replying to posts with a snipe because you are unknown so it doesn't matter so much.

Personalities can change when they are hidden by the internet too, I try and be me, never want to offend or upset anyone and am mortified if I do but I do feel confident in my abilities in photography as I am sure you do Arkady ( I still feel I have so much to learn), it can come acrross as arogance if its not worded right, but like you say, your training has dealt with that side of things for you to a certain extent but at least you have acknowledged this and can let us know that your words are not meant to hurt anyone.

I might come back and edit this cos I'm not sure if I am saying things in the right way..... ;)
 
If your goal is to produce a professional standard of work then it is essential to strive harder to do that - why waste time on stuff that is only destined for the family album?
Pictures of ickle cuddly wabbits are just that - nice, but. We can help people with thier technical skills (which is where I think you're coming from) but if we want to help people progress beyond mere happy-snaps then we need to be a bit firm.
I thought that was the point of having a Critique section and a Sharing section.

And I'm sorry (again) - this wasn't meant as an apology per se, more as an explanation as to why my crass, blunt self is the way it is.
If you think I'm being an ar*e - then by all means hit the panic button, but I'd far rather you told me direct to shut the **** up.
I'm a grown-up and it'll only hurt for a while...
 
Miniholic said:
As a new member who will be posting some pictures soon for everyone to pull to pieces, I'll be expecting (and welcoming) any comments that can help me to improve my photography skills, that's what I registered for.

At the moment I'd class myself as someone with more enthusiasm than talent, but I'm hoping with help to even up the balance a little, hopefully withough losing any enthusiasm.

This thread has actually reminded me about an email I received over Christmas from a former colleague, which was signed off with this quote.

"Be who you are and say what you feel, because those who mind don't
matter and those who matter don't mind." - Dr. Seuss, 1904 - 1991

A bit sentimental, but I can see where he was coming from.

Suppose you posted a picture here, and everybody told you it needed improving and how that could be achieved.... then Arkady comes marching out of the fog and shouts "THATS F***ING S**TE!!!" in your face from 2 feet away - is that really going to encourage you in any way at all? I don't believe it is. Its more likely to make you wander off to a different forum where people are not so nasty. After all, it only takes one, in my opinion.

Arkady needs to get off his high-horse and understand this. In my opinion.
 
Marianne said:
I might come back and edit this cos I'm not sure if I am saying things in the right way..... ;)

No - it's good - I get it. Girls are so good at this.

I just shoot things that annoy me.
 
GfK said:
Suppose you posted a picture here, and everybody told you it needed improving and how that could be achieved.... then Arkady comes marching out of the fog and shouts "THATS F***ING S**TE!!!" in your face from 2 feet away - is that really going to encourage you in any way at all? I don't believe it is. Its more likely to make you wander off to a different forum where people are not so nasty. After all, it only takes one, in my opinion.

Arkady needs to get off his high-horse and understand this. In my opinion.

Have I ever, ever done that?
No.
It only looks like a high horse from the gutter.
 
Whooooooooa there chaps

If this continues this course, the thread is going to end up in a sorry state and the forum will be the worse for it!

Considered words and constructive comments only, there's no place for nastyness here :nunu:
 
digitalfailure said:
Whooooooooa there chaps

If this continues this course, the thread is going to end up in a sorry state and the forum will be the worse for it!

Considered words and constructive comments only, there's no place for nastyness here :nunu:

It won't continue. I've said all I feel I can get away with saying on the issue.
 
Let's cool it folks, we know when we're pushing it and when we aren't. Basic communication skills and a little consideration are what we all use in our day to day dealings with people, and just because we're sitting behind our monitors, it's no excuse for turning into Jack The Ripper. Look at what you just typed before you hit the 'Submit' button.
 
By all means, consider email or PM to each other if you have a difference of opinion on a subject,
but I WILL NOT have open war on a forum, thats just not on.

I've stated in previous posts in this thread, constrctive comments and reasoning behind why, are all thats needed.

I'm not the worlds greatest typist or the best person for expressing what I think in words......I fix cars for a living and teach others how to fix them.I'm NOT an expert on the english language. I understand that comments can become mis understood because a punctuation mark is left out, or because someones left the caps lock on. Common sense and an open mind prevail and I re read as Marianne mentioned in her post.
 
This started off as a well intended (I believe) explanation and appears to have degenerated somewhat - I am with the mods and believe this thread should now be locked ... for all our sakes !
 
I'll not lock the thread, but I am watching it, as i'm sure the rest of the staff are :suspect1:

I'm all for sorting things out and getting things off chests, but name calling and sideswipes aren't the way to do it. we are ALL adults on here and we CAN all play together nicely. :smilenod:
 
Actually have no problems with harsh responses, as long as constructive......which I think any have all been to date. This similar debate on truthful critique comes up on every Photo forum. You almost need 2 levels of Critique sections.....one for those looking for positive responses & then possibly a "this is how it really is boyo" section ;). For me I think I'll stick with an inclusion at the front of any critique posts to state what level of response I want ....... most days I'm thick skinned & for me I desperately want to improve my photography, so happy to take it on the chin.....most days ;)
 
DJW said:
most days I'm thick skinned & for me I desperately want to improve my photography, so happy to take it on the chin.....most days ;)
.....you want to be thankful you're not a woman....some days of the month I have to shut myself in a box!
 
Marianne said:
.....you want to be thankful you're not a woman....some days of the month I have to shut myself in a box!
:laugh1: :D
 
I don't see the point of wasting other people's bandwidth tbh ;)
 
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