- Messages
- 115,214
- Name
- The real Chris
- Edit My Images
- No
and the site receives a small commission
I don't understand how a Smart meter will save me energy ?
- Thread starter BADGER.BRAD
- Start date
- Messages
- 9,276
- Edit My Images
- No
The worst thing about conspiracy theories is that, when applied to the last four governments of the United Kingdom, they've often turned out to be true. 
Steep
Nutcrack Rapids
- Messages
- 16,636
- Name
- Hugh
- Edit My Images
- Yes
What they mean is it will save THEM money, my supplier is getting ever more annoying with emails and texts trying to get me to take a smart meter.
- Messages
- 10,358
- Name
- Jonathan
- Edit My Images
- Yes
Here you go.
That's my electricity cost by day for January and February. The blue line is what I paid including standing charge and totals £128.71. That's on Intelligent Octopus which I believe is the best tariff for me for those 2 months and the one I actually used. The orange line is what I would have paid if I had been on Flexible Octopus 2022 v1 which as far as I can see is the best tariff that Octopus would offer me if I didn't have a smart meter. The total would have been £292.39. So having a smart meter allowed me access to a tariff that saved me c£85 a month. (It's worth noting that I have an electric car which is what causes the spikes but every single day the orange line is higher than the blue no matter how much I use)
I have used the currently quotes Flexible price - in practice it can vary according to the wholesale market but I don't have historical values - I don't believe the rate was significantly less in Jan/Feb than it is now. In other news, Octopus just cut my overnight cost by 25% and daytime by 7%. I don't know if they are doing that for Flexible but if they are, that will already be priced in - i.e. I think Flexible would be worse than these figures.
E7 on flexible would have been a lot closer - total for 2 months would be £186 so only £28 a month worse but I don't know if you can get an E7 meter fitted if you don't have one without getting a smart meter.
- Messages
- 9,276
- Edit My Images
- No
I find myself thinking that those people who write about how wonderful smart meters are and who, sometimes, become aggressive towards others who hold a contradictory view, is that they're displaying disconfirmed expectancy (click the link for more information).
The evidence suggests that smart meters may help with some peoples' budgeting but they need to be living in the right sort of house, have the ability to both understand and control energy budgeting and be dealing with a supplier that is genuinely going to meet their expectations. What seems to be the general situation is that most people cannot control their use of energy beyond a tiny and probably irrelevant amount.
The smart meter rollout was sponsored by Energy Minister Richard Harrington, who was made a life peer in 2022, just as the stupidities of the system were becoming clear to everyone except the government. To be fair, Harrington is not entirely stupid; his opposition to Brexit and his work for Ukrainian refugees seems to show that he has a brain. In this particular case, however, we can only assume his brain had taken a holiday, without telling him!
- Messages
- 10,358
- Name
- Jonathan
- Edit My Images
- Yes
I think a brief summary would beI find myself thinking that those people who write about how wonderful smart meters are and who, sometimes, become aggressive towards others who hold a contradictory view, is that they're displaying disconfirmed expectancy (click the link for more information).
The evidence suggests that smart meters may help with some peoples' budgeting but they need to be living in the right sort of house, have the ability to both understand and control energy budgeting and be dealing with a supplier that is genuinely going to meet their expectations. What seems to be the general situation is that most people cannot control their use of energy beyond a tiny and probably irrelevant amount.
The smart meter rollout was sponsored by Energy Minister Richard Harrington, who was made a life peer in 2022, just as the stupidities of the system were becoming clear to everyone except the government. To be fair, Harrington is not entirely stupid; his opposition to Brexit and his work for Ukrainian refugees seems to show that he has a brain. In this particular case, however, we can only assume his brain had taken a holiday, without telling him!
1. They allow people to access different tariffs and these are usually cheaper (or at least there's a cheaper tariff)
2. They provide information that could allow an interested person to save money / energy by modifying their behaviour. In many cases these savings won't be huge but I'm done cases they might be.
3. They allow energy firms to read the metres more frequently, accurately and cheaply. They could use this information to predict bills giving more accurate payment plans.
4. Nothing about them obligates anybody to do anything at all. You are perfectly free to ignore better tariffs and energy saving options. You just get a newer version of a thing you already have.
The thing that really baffles me is why people are so opposed to them other than "I don't like change" or the stronger version "I don't trust the people making the change".
Do you have other reasons for not wanting one?
- Messages
- 9,276
- Edit My Images
- No
My reasons include...
- Don't fix what ain't broke.
- Never assume that the first or even the third version of a new technology will work as intended.
- I really don't want people installing things in my home unless I really want those things.
- If cheaper tarrifs are available to some customers they should be available to all customers - without reference to the customer's time of use.
- Anything that makes the privatised companies' lives more difficult seems like a good idea to me.
- Messages
- 2,139
- Name
- martin
- Edit My Images
- Yes
At no time previously have advantages tariffs been mentioned to me, if I could save money by having one fitted and not changing much I might consider one, so then electricity suppliers maybe should send out quotes, with and without ‘smart meters’ and best tariffs, seeing savings in £s might help persuade folk?
If you are prepared to run heavy load electrical devices such as washing machines, tumble dryers and dishwashers (and charge an EV) overnight then a variable tariff facilitated by a smart meter should save money.
In my case however, for fire safety reasons we will not run any of the above machines overnight & I don't have any immediate plans for an EV, I am happy enough with my 'self charging' hybrid car which will do 60-70mpg, it came with 5 years warranty, servicing & breakdown cover so running costs are mainly VED, fuel & insurance. Doing an annual mileage of 4000-5000 miles the cost of changing to an EV is too high at present.
We have swapped our light bulbs for LED, use a microwave oven as well as a gas hob & oven. & we have 'smart' heating controls, double glazing, plus cavity & loft insulation too, meaning there's little scope for further energy savings.
So a smart meter offers no immediate benefit to me. I can easily cope with photographing my meters once a month & reporting their readings online.
The following article also covers some other security considerations concerning smart meters, it's worth reading past the headline ......
www.thisismoney.co.uk
In my case however, for fire safety reasons we will not run any of the above machines overnight & I don't have any immediate plans for an EV, I am happy enough with my 'self charging' hybrid car which will do 60-70mpg, it came with 5 years warranty, servicing & breakdown cover so running costs are mainly VED, fuel & insurance. Doing an annual mileage of 4000-5000 miles the cost of changing to an EV is too high at present.
We have swapped our light bulbs for LED, use a microwave oven as well as a gas hob & oven. & we have 'smart' heating controls, double glazing, plus cavity & loft insulation too, meaning there's little scope for further energy savings.
So a smart meter offers no immediate benefit to me. I can easily cope with photographing my meters once a month & reporting their readings online.
The following article also covers some other security considerations concerning smart meters, it's worth reading past the headline ......
Smart meter readings could leave you vulnerable to burglars
Changes in the way energy companies take data from the meters mean hackers could use the information to plan break-ins when people aren't at home.
OP
- Messages
- 3,723
- Edit My Images
- Yes
A friend of mine in his mid 70's had a letter saying he was in the vulnerable group and they would do everything to help him out in this cost of living crisis, the following week he went shopping only to return to find he had no electric, He had no clue what had happened so after checking everything else he went for the main switch located i n the outside meter cupboard. At this point he found that it was a different meter and had no understanding about it, there was a small sticker saying if there was a problem with the meter phone 089979089XXXX which he did , The phone number was not in use , I tried this multiple times as did he from different phone networks just in case there was some sort of gremlin between networks. He knows nothing about the internet or technology so had to spend 3 days with out electric which meant he could not cook. Luckily he had a wood burner as temps were in the minus at the time. As we live in a great area neighbors made him food and made sure he was alright. He was lucky as a hell of a lot of places this would not have happened. He was later cut off multiple times as he didn't understand how to use it. Previous to this he had never had a problem and always paid his bills. It really knocked him for six affecting his mental health for a good while. mean while they could give a stuff. I have heard lots of other horror stories but as they were in the papers /on TV or with other people I don't know too well I cannot confirm them.
I had a direct debit with my old electricity company which one of the times the decided to take all my credit and charge me 3 times for my monthly direct debit. At this point I was on holiday and had no clue what had happened as My card was being declined. I rang the Bank thinking my card had been cloned and they said there had been 3 payments taken out and in the first instance to speak to the trickle people. They denied they had done this and refused to do anything about it. So then I rang the bank back. The lad that I spoke to said this is happening quite a lot , As he had unto very recently worked for one of these struggling Energy providers he told me they are doing all sorts of dodgy things in order to get the money back which was why he had left. He took the money back from them and advised me to cancel the Direct debit ( It was the sort where they take what ever the bill is) I then had a few months of them hassling me although I paid the amount on the day they issued me with a bill. In the end I blocked the various numbers they called me on as well as their emails.
Just my experience but why would I want to change something that works for something that may well give me a load of grief ?
OP
- Messages
- 3,723
- Edit My Images
- Yes
That make total sense to me ! I go round at the end of the night making sure everything is switched off after a Lady I know had her house catch fire while they were sleeping due to a faulty appliance ( in this case a fridge so awkward to turn off). They very narrowly escaped with their lives and she now has major anxiety issues in her house at night and suffers serious sleep problems (she moved after the fire because of this which didn't really help) So I think your comment is a serious one to make.
We had a short circuit in the wiring on a dishwasher which we caught just in time; a family friend had their kitchen & utility room destroyed by a tumble dryer fire so we are a lot more cautious too. We never leave any appliances apart from fridge & freezer turned on if we go out or go to bed.
Forgot to add, we have a quite a few smoke alarms installed........
Last edited:
- Messages
- 3,175
- Edit My Images
- Yes
I find your reasons completely contradictory:
1. It is broken, because electricity are not flat rate. Market price fluctuates over time.
3. You don't want smart meters, but yet:
4. You feel the cheaper tariff should be available to you, a tariff that specifically varies electricity pricing according to market fluctuation over time.
You either want the tariff and get smart meter installed, or you stick with old meters and pay a flat rate.
On safety, you can easily access this cheap night rates tariff by virtually time-shift your load to night time. A battery of some sort will greatly help you here. Currently there is 30p difference between night rates and a slightly higher day rate (9.5p/kWh night rate, 40p/kWh day rate; vs 35p/kWh "cap"). For a 10 kWh consumption house, it only takes 5 years to get ROI on battery install (£5000 battery install cost).
Mr Bump
From under the bridge
- Messages
- 9,638
- Name
- Paul
- Edit My Images
- Yes
- Messages
- 9,276
- Edit My Images
- No
I don't know what the bloke in the pet shop told you but that's not a pussy cat...
- Messages
- 10,358
- Name
- Jonathan
- Edit My Images
- Yes
That's a great idea and may help win over some people. However, I don't think it's possible to do this accurately. A smart meter doesn't just provide you with the data, it provides the energy supplier with the data. With an old fashioned meter they can't tell when you used power so can't work out what they would have charged.
However, you could do a crude check yourself by reading the meter say 3 times a day for a week. Or you could do a really simple check - all of Octopus' tariffs are here https://octopus.energy/tariffs/ (other suppliers are of course available). In my own postcode area, I can't find a non Smart domestic tariff that is cheaper than a Smart one. Not having a smart meter (or more specifically not being on a smart tariff) is actually costing you money - possibly a lot.
See above - on the rates I quote, the Smart tariff is cheaper than the best dumb tariff every hour of every day. You wouldn't need to change your habits to benefit. It's a fair point that suppliers could offer a better flat rate than they do - just pitch it at the highest amount from a smart tariff. But they don't. Somebody has to pay for meter readings and it seems fairest that it isn't the people who don't need them.
As for that article....I'm trying to be polite but that's one of the dumbest articles I've seen in a long time. I was away all last week and yes, you could probably figure that out from "hacking" my smart meter (though according to the article this has never been done) but there are many easier ways for a local thief to work this out. In case you're not aware, ThisIsMoney is brought to you by the same scare mongering shock journos as the Daily Mail with a similar agenda and quality of fact checking.
- Messages
- 9,276
- Edit My Images
- No
There was a time when Britain had a fairly good handle on what should be managed by the government for the good of all citizens and what should be in the private sector.
When run properly, the public utilities provided water, energy, communications and transport efficiently. However, every time a right wing government took office, they demanded "efficiency", which is a dialect word meaning "profit for my friends and ignore the weak or poor". I cannot help but see this smart meter obsession as just another example of the use of that word. A small minority of "customers" (another dialect word meaning "the fools who have no choice but to pay me for a necessity") will benefit from this technology but the vast majority will pay for it (Who did you think would get the bill?) without obtaining any benefit whatsoever.
It's a sweet life in the modern Conservative and Unionist Party Auxilliary!
When run properly, the public utilities provided water, energy, communications and transport efficiently. However, every time a right wing government took office, they demanded "efficiency", which is a dialect word meaning "profit for my friends and ignore the weak or poor". I cannot help but see this smart meter obsession as just another example of the use of that word. A small minority of "customers" (another dialect word meaning "the fools who have no choice but to pay me for a necessity") will benefit from this technology but the vast majority will pay for it (Who did you think would get the bill?) without obtaining any benefit whatsoever.
It's a sweet life in the modern Conservative and Unionist Party Auxilliary!
As I said previously I don't have an EV, so a tariff that offers cheap charging is of no benefit to me. I also don't have a heat pump, solar panels or battery bank storage. As far as I can see (as an Octopus customer already) the only tariff that makes any sense to me with a smart meter would be Octopus Agile.
However, according to Octopus themselves (copied from their website below) I would be better off for the moment staying on my current tariff than switching to Octopus Agile.
Agile Octopus is unlike any other energy tariff. Its dynamic pricing unlocks the opportunity for customers to make savings by shifting their electricity use to times when it's cheaper (and greener).
Agile prices vary a lot based on trends in the wholesale energy market (our energy boffins blog regularly about it). Currently, soaring global gas prices have pushed wholesale prices to record highs: they've increased over 400% since the start of 2021. This means Agile's prices are consistently high right now, and it's likely you'll save more money by sticking to a standard variable or fixed tariff throughout the Winter.
We won't ever divert from our mission, but due to continued market volatility and the beta nature of this smart tariff we may need to restrict daily sign ups. You're still free to sign up below, and we'll let you know if this affects you joining Agile.
In Winter '22-'23, a typical household on Agile paid around 35p/kWh on average (a little more than the average variable tariff).
Agile prices can spike up to 100p/kWh any time – that's three times higher than most customers are paying right now.
This tariff is best suited to customers who can shift large amounts of their energy use to avoid these expensive peaks, often by using smart home technologies like solar and batteries.
However, according to Octopus themselves (copied from their website below) I would be better off for the moment staying on my current tariff than switching to Octopus Agile.
How much will it cost?
Agile Octopus is unlike any other energy tariff. Its dynamic pricing unlocks the opportunity for customers to make savings by shifting their electricity use to times when it's cheaper (and greener).
Agile prices vary a lot based on trends in the wholesale energy market (our energy boffins blog regularly about it). Currently, soaring global gas prices have pushed wholesale prices to record highs: they've increased over 400% since the start of 2021. This means Agile's prices are consistently high right now, and it's likely you'll save more money by sticking to a standard variable or fixed tariff throughout the Winter.
Important: Agile pricing during an energy crisis
Octopus are famous for leading the way with our innovative collection of beta smart tariffs, helping bring cheaper and greener power to all our customers.We won't ever divert from our mission, but due to continued market volatility and the beta nature of this smart tariff we may need to restrict daily sign ups. You're still free to sign up below, and we'll let you know if this affects you joining Agile.
In Winter '22-'23, a typical household on Agile paid around 35p/kWh on average (a little more than the average variable tariff).
Agile prices can spike up to 100p/kWh any time – that's three times higher than most customers are paying right now.
This tariff is best suited to customers who can shift large amounts of their energy use to avoid these expensive peaks, often by using smart home technologies like solar and batteries.
- Messages
- 9,276
- Edit My Images
- No
More of this strange language.
I tried running it through a translator, which threw a fit and finally came up with "We want you idiots to give us extra money for pretty well nothing but if too many of you fall for this, some of you will start to see through our scam and we can't be having that, can we?"
Last edited:
Years ago someone I knew wrote a software program for a laugh which was designed to generate 'corporate' phrases not dissimilar to the one above.......More of this strange language.
I tried running it through a translator, which threw a fit and finally came up with "We want you idiots to give us extra money for pretty well nothing but if too many of you fall for this, some of you will start to see through our scam and we can't be having that, can we?"
I only included it to avoid being accused of selective editing of the text I copied and pasted......
- Messages
- 3,175
- Edit My Images
- Yes
Octopus are very clear how to best take advantage of this tariff. They are also very up-front about downside of the tariff (may get up to £1/kWh at peak times).
I cannot see how any of that can be viewed as a scam in any shape or form.
- Messages
- 3,761
- Name
- Trevor
- Edit My Images
- Yes
It's just the same sort of language as these:
1. Single-handedly, I managed managed the successful upgrade and deployment of a new environmental illumination system with zero-cost overruns and zero safety incidents.
Or 'I changed a light bulb.'
2. I've completed the aqua thermal treatment of ceramics, steel and aluminium under a constrained environment.
Or 'I did the washing up.'
I agree, I have no issue with Octopus or the information they provide to customers. Should we ever decide to buy an EV I will look again at tariffs & see if there is any benefit to having a smart meter. Octopus Agile remains of interest to me, but not for now. If energy prices ever get back to to the level they were a couple of years ago it might be worth revisiting.
OP
- Messages
- 3,723
- Edit My Images
- Yes
Unfortunately that rules out a hell of a lot of people !
OP
- Messages
- 3,723
- Edit My Images
- Yes
OP
- Messages
- 3,723
- Edit My Images
- Yes
As soon as you start insulting people you've lost the argument !
- Messages
- 3,175
- Edit My Images
- Yes
Which part? The £5000 up front cost? or 5 years wait for return on investment? or 10 kWh average daily consumption doesn't apply to people?
If someone have £5000 and want to double their money in 10 years. This is the surest way. Energy price variations will only get bigger as more renewables are brought online.
OP
- Messages
- 3,723
- Edit My Images
- Yes
Unfortunately most people or at least working people don't really have a choice when they use electricity so a hell of a lot of people could end up on this £1 a unit tariff should it happen.
In my case I could take the risk of running electrical equipment at night but as I live at least 10 miles from the nearest fire Station down small country roads the risk to me and my family although low in reality is still far too high.
OP
- Messages
- 3,723
- Edit My Images
- Yes
A hell of a lot of people live hand to mouth so asking them for £5000 is just as daft as asking them for £100,000,000. If they cannot afford the Energy bills as they are and are choosing between Food or heat where they going to magic £5000 from .
- Messages
- 3,175
- Edit My Images
- Yes
It is sign-up by choice. If some people find it hard to move high consumables away from peak times then don't switch to it.
As said many times, smart meter offers the choice of those tariffs. Nothing else.
But then, the possibility of £1/kWh is their disclaimer to account for the most expensive times.
This is the reality: 17-36p/kWh. Given the choice to either pay 35p/kWh all the time or only a few hours a day........
Source: https://energy-stats.uk/octopus-agile-london/
That is true, and with interest rates going up and up, it's difficult to justify a loan.
There is also the possibility that they do not own the property so difficult to get it approved.
In my case, I haven't got the space near fuse box to have the hardware installed. At least not without moving things about.
But no denying localised storage is one of the solution to get cheaper energy. It just cannot be easily put into practice by everyone right now.
- Messages
- 10,411
- Name
- John
- Edit My Images
- Yes
My bold. I'm not sure if you were referring to fuel duty PLUS VAT or just fuel duty.
There's an anomaly re home-charging versus using a public charger.
EV charging via a charging point in a public place is subject to VAT at the standard 20% rate but only a 5% rate applies to a person’s house or building which uses less than 1,000 kilowatt-hours a month which,I think is about the average..very roughly, household consumption ..family of four. We use about 80Kw a week.
I don't keep spread sheets like you do but I read the meters (gas/electric) every Saturday morning first thing (unless rain is forecast in which case I do it before turning in for the night on Friday...lol.) and write them on A4 sheets with columns I drew and keep them in an A4 folder. Very basic..Date/Reading/Use/plus-minus/Comments (usually re the weather..hot/cold or on holiday) I have them going back three years after which I bin them. We're with Octopus and send them the reading on request. .No smart meters for us. If we need an appliance or a light or heating on, it goes on. We just don't waste it. I'll tell you what, on the face of it but I can't really prove it, is that since we got a Ninja AF400 air fryer (just right for two) the electric consumption has dropped by about 3-5Kw a week. We only use the oven occasionally now, mainly for Sunday roast which seems better.
Someone,I can't find the post, it's a long thread now, wondered if the energy companies have financial penalties imposed on them for not reaching targets and, at present, they've just been told to increase take up but in this 2023/25 window they will incur heavy penalties for missing targets which,I think, will lead to sharp practices and pressure on,especially, the elderly and vulnerable. ..as ever. Can't the government see that ? It happened with the first generation meters. Customers would get a call from the company or even the engineer at the door to install the meter saying it was 'law' .I recall reading that the second generation of smart meters have an industry standard so people can switch suppliers and remain compatible. That wasn't the case with the first generation no doubt to discourage customers from switching.
Friends of ours have a smart meter and the husband..who has the latest technology for just about everything they have., is forever keeping an eye on it and was very keen to show me how he could see the exact usage increase when he, for example., switched on the oven or the kettle. I couldn't live like that. It could easily lead to neurosis, I'm sure. When we visit I'm reluctant to ask for a cuppa as the kettle, especially the 2.5Kw or 3Kw rapid-boilers, gobbles up the electricity at an alarming rate.
- Messages
- 115,214
- Name
- The real Chris
- Edit My Images
- No
Yes they do, and I've made reference to it a couple of times in the past.
One of the posts I made, was to the effect that they were offering me £100 to have one fitted, which begged the question, how much do these penalties cost them.
OP
- Messages
- 3,723
- Edit My Images
- Yes
I would 100% agree with your statement, A friend of mine a electrical/electronic design Engineer 20 years ago looked into it using economy 7 to charge batteries of the day ( Submarine batteries as I remember ) He worked out loses both ways ( charging and drawing from the batteries) and reckoned it was worth it then. He did say how long it would take to recuperate the cost but I cannot remember. Now days it must be all the easier with the better battery technology.
OP
- Messages
- 3,723
- Edit My Images
- Yes
You have to laugh at this ! We have all been encouraged to have smart meters and now the phone networks ( after government pressure) are turning off 2g and 3g many smart meter use 2g . Only in Britain !
have a look at the end of the article
have a look at the end of the article
- Messages
- 2,977
- Name
- dean
- Edit My Images
- Yes
That made me think so I had a look. Now the only things I have running between 23:30 and 05:30 are the fridge/freezer and the sky box and I admit I haven't worked but at 7.5p per kWh for those times and 38.74p per kWh between 05:30 and 23:30 compared to 32.56p per kWh on flexible octopus I doubt I would save much if anything without either a serious change in my living routine or a serious investment in batteries. Now for some with a much higher night-time usage it maybe advantages but not for me.
lindsay
Admin
- Messages
- 5,227
- Name
- Lindsay
- Edit My Images
- Yes
I think the original one was the Honeywell Buzz-phrase Generator (who remembers Honeywell? Maker of some pretty decent minicomputers back in the 60'/70's).
EDF have been pestering me to get a smart meter for a few months now. However their argument is based on us being on a 2-rate (Economy 7) tariff and meter, and apparently the BBC radio signal that trigger the rate change is being switched off in next year (31.3/24) RTS Switch Off so that kind of forces my hand.
- Messages
- 3,175
- Edit My Images
- Yes
When I moved into my house, I had economy 7 meter. It was later renewed due to age and I insisted staying on like-for-like e7 meter for future EV and solar. Since then, the time when it flips rate slowly goes later as year went on. It was 7:38 when it was finally changed to smart meter. So I'd have thought the final generation non-smart e7 meters are local clock based?
Have your e7 switch-over time drifted over the years? Is it a digital read-out with flashing LED or old style analogue digits and spinning indicator?
Have your e7 switch-over time drifted over the years? Is it a digital read-out with flashing LED or old style analogue digits and spinning indicator?
- Messages
- 10,358
- Name
- Jonathan
- Edit My Images
- Yes
Yes. If your overnight consumption is low and you plan to keep it that way then time based plans will almost always be more expensive than flat rates. Personally I've managed to shift practically all my mains usage to the night time (via batteries and solar which cost a lot of money) which gets me access to extremely cheap power.
There's a *huge* surge in power demand in the UK between 4pm and 7pm so if people can avoid this, energy companies will "pay" them quite a lot (either in actual money or by discounting costs at other times). Of course this can't be done without smart meters.
There's another thread about money in this forum and people seem to enjoy playing Premiums Bonds. As @wyx087 mentions above, if you have a moderate amount of money to invest (probably £5k+) and want an excellent practically guaranteed return then get a smart meter and some batteries. Prices were very high earlier this year but with higher availability they are dropping. I just added two more 2.4 KW batteries to my stack from "a well known auction site" for £1,500 complete with an 8 year warranty. If I wanted, I could use them for nothing else than playing the Flux game - charging overnight at 20.5p and selling in the afternoon at 36.85. Payback on this guaranteed scheme would be 5 years. 3 months. Then it's profit.
Or more likely you could use Intelligent Octopus and charge them from the mains overnight at 7.5p and have 4.8 KWH per day for a saving of about £1.20 a day. Payback in < 2 years.
[Payback calculation assumes
1. Octopus keep offering Flux (very likely) and don't change the rates (most likely is the differential will increase giving shorter payback)
2. You already have an inverter and wiring. I did so it was a simple matter of plugging in. Your first battery will cost significantly more.]