I don't understand how a Smart meter will save me energy ?

[BADGER.BRAD]

The adverts telling me a smart meter will save me energy /money baffle me surely they are misleading ! If I use a 100 watt light bulb for an hour will it only use as much as a 75 watt light bulb if I have a smart meter fitted ?

Rant over , what do you think of them ?

 

[Cobra]

EDF have been pushing me to have one fitted for years, I use what I need, no more, no less, the only advantage is to the suppliers,
who get penalised, if they don't fit X amount per year, by the government.
They were even offering me £100 if I had one fitted, so I have to wonder how much they get charged / penalised by the government, if they don't meet their target.
(but they stopped that now,)

I'm pretty sure their "claim" is b****x.

 

[Pound Coin]

I think the idea is that you find out what uses power in your house, and turn it off.

Unfortunately that would mean you wouldn't be able to come on the forum again!

 

[Nod]

The only way I can see that one could help reduce usage is if it highlighted a hidden high draw appliance.

 

[Mozthecat]

We moved house last year and suddenly went from all electric storage heater/economy 7 based heating that I had grown up with and then had in our flat for 15 years to gas based warm air heating and hot water.

The smart meter that was already installed helped us get a reasonable balance between comfort and cost. It also meant when the warm air unit broke down we could judge how much electric heating to use to stay comfortable, I would have been turning it off sooner to save(just in case), and my partner would have been running it for longer and not reaching for a throw as soon…

In short it helped us in the early days, and is being checked less often now as we are settling in.

 

[AndrewFlannigan]

I check the meters every morning and keep a note of how much gas and electricity we've used over the last 24 hours or so.

I put the numbers into simple spreadsheets so we know roughly what the next bill should be. That's detailed enough for our needs.

 

[boogie man]

The smart meter itself can’t save you anything, and if that’s the actual claim in the advert then it’s false or misleading advertising. All it can do is make you more aware of how much gas and/or electricity you’re using.

We inherited smart meters when we moved in to our house a couple of years ago. I don’t take much notice of the remote display, apart from getting annoyed about how much the power suppliers are racking up from the daily standing charge.

 

[Sky]

They're not smart at all and they won't save you money. All they can really do is enable the energy company to increase your charges by a few computer keystrokes.

Having always told them to get stuffed when they insisted I had one, I inherited one when I moved into my new place a couple of years ago. However, the supplier still wants me to give meter readings occasionally.

There are many reasons not to have one:

https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=why+a+smart+meter+UK

 

[AMcUK]

Mine saved me money as it allowed me to prove to the supplier that their inabilty to distinguish between winter when my electric heating uses lots of energy and summer when it doesn't evens out over the year.
I have reduced the absurd amount they wanted in direct debit adjustments in spring because their software predicts I'll have the heating on in July to something sensible.
The Octopus App also allows me to see what we've been using hour by hour, day by day, month by month charted with a click no excel required.
Helpful to see the cost of overnight appliances and the base load of the house when nothing was gone on.
The "in home display" is a useful reminder of what is going on but only your own behaviour will actually save you money.

You're all going to get one eventually though it may take years!

 

[tijuana taxi]

Saves the company money by getting rid of the meter reading person.

 

[Mr Perceptive]

I check the meters every morning and keep a note of how much gas and electricity we've used over the last 24 hours or so.

I put the numbers into simple spreadsheets so we know roughly what the next bill should be. That's detailed enough for our needs.

View attachment 387062

Check out the Hugo app for your phone, this gives historical data and and provides graphs etc. Far more useful than a Smart Meter and saves you all that transposing into a spreadsheet.

Smart Meter App to Reduce Energy Cost | Energy Saving App | Hugo

Save energy bills & reduce CO2 cost with Hugo's smart meter application. Enjoy all the energy-saving features for free. Get the app now!

hugoenergyapp.co.uk

 

[Gav.]

Funny claim that they 'save energy' when it's another thing 'plugged' in or using batteries

 

[wyx087]

My smart meter allowed me to save hundreds by signing up to EV time-of-use tariff. So instead of paying 35p/kWh I only pay 7.5p/kWh for charging EV.
My smart meter will allow me to save even more when I get vehicle-2-home (similar to home battery) installed and time-shift >95% of my electricity to the cheap price.

Smart meters are a step towards fairer pricing for electricity. The old way of burning more fuel (supply) to meet demand is very expensive (as we've seen over last 10 months). As more and more cheap renewable supplies are installed, more and more tariffs will have changing prices throughout the day. Smart meters will allow you to access this type of tariff if you wish.


I also have a smart meter that broadcast MQTT messages to my smart home. I then can use this to record my usage and do other things.

 

[AndrewFlannigan]

....and saves you all that transposing into a spreadsheet.

I'll stick with my spreadsheets.

On general priciples, I never use special purpose applications where a general purpose tool will work as well, which is one reason I don't want a smart meter...

 

[AndrewFlannigan]

My smart meter allowed me to save hundreds by signing up to EV time-of-use tariff. So instead of paying 35p/kWh I only pay 7.5p/kWh for charging EV.

I shall look forward to the change in vehicle tax when they reclaim the tax lost infrom petrol by increasing the electric vehicle tax to £2500 a year.

 

[wyx087]

I shall look forward to the change in vehicle tax when they reclaim the tax lost infrom petrol by increasing the electric vehicle tax to £2500 a year.

That's outside of this the smart meter topic, but I think you'll find the tax change is not £2500 a year.

From 2025, they are abolishing £0 VED exemptions. All cars that were exempt will have to pay minimum rate. Before 2017 it will be £20 (IIRC) and after 2017 it will be £165 or new price at 2025. It is the same for all vehicles.

 

[AndrewFlannigan]

That's outside of this the smart meter topic, but I think you'll find the tax change is not £2500 a year.

Oh dear, I am dissappointed. Still, I'm sure they'll get you soon enough...

 

[Mr Perceptive]

I'll stick with my spreadsheets.

Suit yourself, but since Hugo talks directly to the smart meter, its quite a time saving (and there are no spreadsheet typos)

 

[AndrewFlannigan]

Suit yourself,

I shall indeed, but I thank you for your kind permission...

 

[Mr Bump]

at the end of the day i like smart meters because i dont have to go to the celler to read them or let some scruffy oik in to do same, win win for me
also

@wyx087 is spot on as plans evolve you will be able to take advantage of them better like if suddenly leccy becomes half price between 10pm and say 4AM for car charging you will have to have a smart meter to do this.

 

[BADGER.BRAD]

I personally find the old method of selecting the cheapest way of doing something ( lighting,heating, cooking and hot water, ) and then use it when I need to and turn it off when I don't !

As regards electric cars the nearest charging point to me is 10 miles in the wrong direction and it 40p per kwh How many Kilowatt hours to charge the average car and how much time does it take ? Judging on 20 mins to charge and 20 mins to get there then 20 mins to get back then I think I'll leave that ! and that's if it's working or no one is on it !

 

[Nod]

Charging at public chargers is usually the expensive way to do it. The only public chargers we use are either at the Sainsbury's we usually shop at (which gives us 10-15 miles of charge while we shop) or in a car park where Mrs Nod parks when she's driven herself down to town. The charge at Sainsbury's is free, as is the charge at the car park, although Mrs Nod has to pay the parking charge! Full charging gets done at home.

 

[onomatopoeia]

They're not smart at all and they won't save you money. All they can really do is enable the energy company to increase your charges by a few computer keystrokes.

They can increase your charges without going anywhere near your conventional meter as well, which is what they've always done.

Smart meter allows me access to different tarriffs that a conventional meter doesn't and can save me money if I demand shift, which solar + battery allows me to. If you don't have your own generation and storage and don't mind reading the meter / letting people in (I got threatened with a court order and forced entry which I'd have to pay for if I didn't allow access) then stick with the conventional meter. because reasons.

 

[Cobra]

I personally find the old method of selecting the cheapest way of doing something ( lighting,heating, cooking and hot water, ) and then use it when I need to and turn it off when I don't !

More and more people are relying on technology to tell them what to do /run their lives, I'm not convinced that it's a good thing.

As regards electric cars the nearest charging point to me is 10 miles in the wrong direction

They installed 8 road side chargers here, less than 200 yards from me, several months ago, I've yet to see a car plugged in...

I got threatened with a court order and forced entry which I'd have to pay for if I didn't allow access)

Power suppliers actually have right of access, under the guise of "Safety checks"

I've not seen a "meter reader" here in years, but it's easy enough for me to read my own meters.
At least that way, I know figures re correct.

 

[BADGER.BRAD]

You're all going to get one eventually though it may take years!

Hopefully by then I'll be free from the energy companies.

Full charging gets done at home.

Unfortunately for me and many people this is impossible so for me with the wait time and the distance involved my little petrol car is still much cheaper and more convenient.

As a reverse of the electric car thing a friend of mine ( les) who lives in a log cabin, has a second large battery on his car, this is charged on his way to and from work or where ever he goes , he then plugs it into his cabin and it provides more than enough electric for him. He lives by himself so if he is not in he doesn't need electric. He uses an inverter to step up the voltage and says running off a limited battery is the best motivation for saving energy around the home. He uses a log burner in the winter using free fuel ( waste wood) so I'm guessing his little idea is working really well for him. His car runs on waste cooking oil as much as he can and he also says there is no noticeable difference in fuel consumption although he must be using at least some more to charge the battery. He has it well sussed !

 

[broc]

That's outside of this the smart meter topic, but I think you'll find the tax change is not £2500 a year.

From 2025, they are abolishing £0 VED exemptions. All cars that were exempt will have to pay minimum rate. Before 2017 it will be £20 (IIRC) and after 2017 it will be £165 or new price at 2025. It is the same for all vehicles.

The VED charges for EVs being proposed will not cover the lost fuel duty and VAT revenue as petrol and diesel sales fall. The Govt will almost certainly need to find ways of recovering the revenue from EVs, possibly by introducing a mileage 'tax'.

 

[wyx087]

No doubt about it. I'm more than happy to contribute, as long as this mileage "tax" is levied on all cars.

 

[AndrewFlannigan]

as long as this mileage "tax" is levied on all cars.

The users of petrol and diesel vehicles already pay a substantial mileage tax, in the form of fuel duty. Such a charge on electric vehicles levels the playing field.

 

[Mr Bump]

holy crap the amount of dinosaur on this thread is more than usual

 

[AndrewFlannigan]

holy crap the amount of dinosaur on this thread is more than usual

Perhaps you could explain that rather cryptic remark?

 

[wyx087]

The users of petrol and diesel vehicles already pay a substantial mileage tax, in the form of fuel duty. Such a charge on electric vehicles levels the playing field.

Funny you imminently jumped to the conclusion that I am suggesting additional tax for petrol/diesel.
I'm talking about a reform of how all vehicles are taxed, completely levelling the playing field.

Speaking of dinosaur, I found this very funny:

On general priciples, I never use special purpose applications where a general purpose tool will work as well, which is one reason I don't want a smart meter...

Pen and paper are much more general purpose than spreadsheet computer program, it can even write poems. Have you considered using that instead?

You use spreadsheet to simplify calculation.
You can also use smart meter and programs to get per-half-hour readings directly into your spreadsheet, simplifying input.

 

[Garry Edwards]

I don't have a smart meter but I love them!

My energy supplier wants to fit one, and as an incentive, they offer £30 whenever they arrange to fit it, regardless of whether they fit it or not.
Usually, they fail to turn up at all, and pay me £30. Occasionally they do turn up but can't fit it because the mobile phone signal is too poor, and pay me £30. This usually happens 3 times per year, so the non-existent meter pays me £90 per year.

 

[Cobra]

I'm talking about a reform of how all vehicles are taxed, completely levelling the playing field.

For once we are in agreement.
It would be great if this was calculated on EV's and ICE tax lowered in comparison.
or even averaged out to a mid point.
But we can all be sure if this happened that EV tax, would be brought in line with ICE's.

I said this right at the start of the discussion, way back, while EV owners were "crowing" about the cost of the tax or lack of it,
sooner or later the government would need to re-coop a lot of money as they became more and more popular, I see its started...

 

[wyx087]

It's one of those things, to be enjoyed to maximum while it lasted.

I don't believe I was ever in denial of EV's getting taxed eventually, can't be asked to dig up old threads.

It's really funny how every single time cheap EV motoring was mentioned, tax is brought up. People seems to forget staying ahead of the curve has many benefits.
(goes back to researching heat pumps for that sweet government subsidy while waiting for my subsidised Vehical-2-Home to be installed)

 

[AndrewFlannigan]

There are various problems with the way electric cars were introduced to the UK.

The first was the "rich man's bribe" that the government offered to purchasers of electric cars: 35% or up to £5,000, The second was allowing owners to charge the vehicle from their home supply, without paying the equivalent of fuel duty. The third was the zero vehicle excise duty. Given the relatively short predicted battery lives for fully electrical vehicles, there will probably be a very limited second hand market for years to come, preventing poorer drivers from using the technology and keeping them in thrall to the duty on petrol.

 

[Cobra]

I don't believe I was ever in denial of EV's getting taxed eventually, can't be asked to dig up old threads.

I don't recall you ever saying it either, but there were plenty that did, and iirc many saying they didn't own an EV at the time, but they "will be getting one"

There are various problems with the way electric cars were introduced to the UK.

And there is the rub, the whole thing was poorly thought out.

 

[wyx087]

The first was the "rich man's bribe" that the government offered to purchasers of electric cars: 35% or up to £5,000,

As emerging technology, it needs government subsidies to ensure it gets through to mass market.
Whereas fossil fuel, a well established technology and burden on Earth, are still getting subsidies to this day. (over 1 trillion in 2022, worldwide)

The second was allowing owners to charge the vehicle from their home supply, without paying the equivalent of fuel duty.

At time of introduction, there is no technical method of achieving and policing so that people couldn't circumvent.
Even now, it is not possible to separate grid charging from charging via home micro generation (eg. solar). After all, the energy never touched public domain, so why should there be fuel duty? For road use? Well, put in a vehicle mileage and/or weight based system.

The third was the zero vehicle excise duty.

Again, it's a form of incentive to increase adoption. This was promised up to 2025 and we are seeing vehicle exercise duty will be applied from 2025.

Given the relatively short predicted battery lives for fully electrical vehicles,

This is simply not true at all (FUD, or misinformation), on so many levels. Batteries are usually warranties for 8 years and are designed to outlast the lifetime of the car.

How long do batteries last in electric cars? | Autocar

Should you be worried about the battery life of an electric car? Not if you pay close attention to our guide

www.autocar.co.uk

There are currently over 700 EV's under £10k EV on Autotrader. The low number is more due to limited supply EV's back in early 2010's than battery dying.

New & Used Cars for Sale - Auto Trader UK

www.autotrader.co.uk

I bought my Nissan Leaf in 2017 for less than £9k. I've enjoyed 5% VAT for recharge and £0 VED for almost 6 years so far. It's a car that's no expensive than any regular Golf from similar age. I simply jumped in at the right time. And the Leaf will keep on giving with V2H as home battery.

You can see the 2010-2013 Japanese built Nissan Leaf, 10 years old first generation EV's, there's still over 70% on the road:

NISSAN LEAF - How Many Left?

Statistics for NISSAN LEAF.. See how many cars of any make and model are left on Britain's roads.

www.howmanyleft.co.uk

Over 90% 2014-2016 Model S are still on the road:

TESLA MODEL S - How Many Left?

Statistics for TESLA MODEL S.. See how many cars of any make and model are left on Britain's roads.

www.howmanyleft.co.uk

I don't deny everything were handled perfectly by the government, same as the message for why smart meter need to be installed, but let's not be an armchair critic and spread misinformation.

 

[Cobra]

I bought my Nissan Leaf in 2017 for less than £9k. I've enjoyed 5% VAT for recharge and £0 VED for almost 6 years so far. It's a car that's no expensive than any regular Golf from similar age. I simply jumped in at the right time. And the Leaf will keep on giving with V2H as home battery.

It seems that you made a right call at the right time (for you)
But I wonder how much your average person actually spends on a second hand car.
I certainly don't. My previous car cost me a little over £3000, I kept that for 5 years, and it cost me very little in maintenance.
less than £1000 in replacement parts, fitted, over the 5 years I owned it. 2x front springs, exhaust,( That was bloody expensive) water pump.


Should the worst happen, from the figures quoted, a replacement engine seems a lot cheaper than replacement batteries.
Everyone to their own, but they (EV's) are not for me, well not in this life time anyway.

 

[AndrewFlannigan]

And there is the rub, the whole thing was poorly thought out.

Worse than that, the whole thing looks suspiciously like a "deal" between David Cameron's Conservative party and interested commercial organisations.

As we have seen since 2010, anything that looks like corruption, generally turns out to be so. In this case, The Conservatives aquired some pseudo green credentials and the companies got a generous hand up out of taxpayers' funds during the "austerity" regime that was causing unhappiness to the general public and is doing even more harm now.

 

[wyx087]

Worse than that, the whole thing looks suspiciously like a "deal" between David Cameron's Conservative party and interested commercial organisations.

As we have seen since 2010, anything that looks like corruption, generally turns out to be so. In this case, The Conservatives aquired some pseudo green credentials and the companies got a generous hand up out of taxpayers' funds during the "austerity" regime that was causing unhappiness to the general public and is doing even more harm now.

On to conspiracy theory now?