i'm fuming.....

markw08 said:
As soon as he grabbed him on the back of the neck or pushed him does this
give you the right to defend ????
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Case law provides a precedent that you can actually use a pre-emptive strike.

If you honestly and genuinely believe someone is about to hit you then it is perfectly lawful to give them a smack in the gob to dissuade them from doing so.

As always you have to ask yourself what is reasonable force. If someone is pushing you then yes you can use force to defend yourself.
 
stan the man said:
good point lisa..they don't know me or where i live,in as much as i don't know them,or where they live.

mmmm.not sure what to do for the best.
Click to expand...

Just leave it then. The kids with the lad in question will all back up that he was innocent, never took a swipe at you etc, etc, you know the score.

Just keep away from the area (or if you have to go again, grow a beard and wear dark glasses). :)

Lisa
 
markw08 said:
I agree that video is criminal damage... i meant it was not related to your incident where somebody is physically abused...

The first vid is something i would not like happen to me.. dont think i would have lasted as long a that guy did...

As soon as he grabbed him on the back of the neck or pushed him does this
give him the right to defend himself ????

I think you would have heard from the police by now if they have reported it.. Over 24hrs since the incident...

(y)
Click to expand...

ah,okay mark...crossed wires on my part :bonk:

i doubt i'm going to hear from the police as i've said mate..they don't know me or where i live...so unless the police can act on the information of a photographer kicked me in the balls,but i haven't a clue as to who or where he lives :LOL:

dave..i truly just want to forget the whole incident,and get on with my life.i have a wife whom needs my attention more than this incident does..life goes on eh.

thank you tommy,and no..it won't put me off going out with the camera..far from it (y)
 
Alot of "Assualt" and "self defence" being thrown around here and just thought i would just try and clear things up with my limited knowledge of the law.

It all comes under the Non-fatal offences against the perston act 1861

"Assualt" - is a verbal or percieved threat. If some one hits you it is not Assault.
"Battery" - Is an application of force. Such as a push or a punch.
"Common Assault" - Most cases contain both of the above and is known seperatly as "Common Assault"

As for the guy saying it was ABH. No. ABH is for more serious acts then a kick in the nads. And it most have also caused Psychological Harm.

Self Defense - This will be deemed on a case by case basis as to what would be a "Reasonable force" to halt or stop what was happening. Often using a subjective test such as "What the reasonable man do?" This is a complete defense.

If not Self defense it could be Provacation this will be a mitigating defence but not total such as self defense.

In this case i think the reasonable man when punched would respond with a reciprocal punch or kick and it was certainly a reasonable force to apply :bonk:
 
Crazyhorse said:
Just leave it then. The kids with the lad in question will all back up that he was innocent, never took a swipe at you etc, etc, you know the score.

Just keep away from the area (or if you have to go again, grow a beard and wear dark glasses). :)

Lisa
Click to expand...

yeah..might be wise,trouble is,it's a lovely place normally..and i love taking my grandchildren there,so if i don't go,it's like they are ruling my life
 
stan the man said:
yeah..might be wise,trouble is,it's a lovely place normally..and i love taking my grandchildren there,so if i don't go,it's like they are ruling my life
Click to expand...

I can see where you're coming from. Just keep away for a bit, it doesn't mean they've have won at all. You might never see them again. But I'm sure they'll be replaced by other scroats.:bang:

Lisa
 
lol at kicking the guy in the nuts lol

sad thing is that these idiots don't understand anything other than violence. I think you were quite restrained after being pelted with snowballs. I don't see anything wrong with your actions. You were verbally abused, assulted with snowballs and then physically assulted then you only hit the buy once then walked away. I'd just laugh it off particurlary as the guy won't live down his kick to the nuts from his friends.



stan the man said:
decided to go out with the camera this morning,to a local park for some landscape and wildlife shots.was enjoying myself when a gang of 17-18 yr olds started taking the pee[that,i can handle by ignoring them],then,as i'm about to take a shot,i'm bombarded with snowballs..myself and camera being covered.

so i turn and asked what they think they were playing at,and they said"what"..i said "you know full well what,do you think it's funny to knacker 2.5K's worth of equipment with your antics",then they give me more abuse,so i put down my camera and front up to them to see how brave they would be then.but one of them thinks he has the measure of me by taking a swing,which slightly catches me on the chin,si i retaliate by kicking him in the groin...and he sinks to his knees,i turn and walk away....

this has upset me,and has completely ruined my day...a bad start to 2010 :bang:
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Many years ago I was coming out of an off licence, the guy in front of me walked past a group of youths one of whom spat on him for no reason.

The guy moved forward throwing a right hand that a heavy weight boxer would have be proud of, caught the youth squarely on the chin sending him crashing in to a bus shelter which vibrated with the impact.

The guy got in to his car and drove off, the youth whose eyes were now in separate orbits, sat crumpled half propped up by the shelter half sprawled on the floor.

For him and his mates, I recon it was the first time in their lives that they had seen a ‘consequence’ for their actions.

I like consequences (y)

As for the youth you ‘defended’ yourself against perhaps having gonads the size of tennis balls for a few days might focus his mind :dummy:
 
Stan im sorry to hear of your incident and think you let him off lightly I too went to the park yesterday and was pulled away by my girlfriend... outraged at kids belting snowballs at helpless ducks and geese...whilst I dont condone violence, being punched in the face isnt going to be corrected by "now listen here young man" saldly violence seems to be what the mass of teenagers understand... to all those opposed to stans reply to a punch in the mush...if you haven't seen the new michael caine film yet harry brown please watch it, youl get a real picture of what todays youth is like.http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OVOSfHFNlcI
 
Well, I wasn't going to mention this but an acquaintance of mine (ex Marine and as fit as a fiddle), aged 42 got set upon by three youths late one night. He 'sorted' them all out.

Good on him.

Lisa
 
stan the man said:
i'm afraid it's not an ego thing for me..just whats right and wrong.
Click to expand...

I actually meant their ego, not yours, the point I was trying to make was if they had just apologised then you might have had a little rant but it would be finished. Because he had an ego he started up with you in front of his mates to look big.

I'm no angel, I once chased a pedestrian for half a mile because he stepped out of the traffic right in front of me, nearly had me off and then gave me the finger when I shouted (in shock) at him.:)
 
stan the man said:
the trouble is mark,a lot of these "youth" that are having "fun",as you put it,do so in a totally different way to we did as "youth"."fun" for a lot of these youth is destroying peoples belongings and possesions,property...need i go on.this is not the way i had fun as a youth,i can assure you.
as for the stories about "killer hoodies on the rampage" etc...that may be sensationalism,but there are a lot of gangs of them hanging around making a general nuisance of themselves,destroying the local park,depriving the smaller children of that pleasure etc..that to me is not acceptable behavior.
Click to expand...

I can promise you that what kids are doing today is just as bad as what kids did back then (at anytime infact). Its just that any "hoodie" story is a very newsworthy story that always makes news headlines, this then means that the perception of the newspaper reading population are lead to understand that "the kids of today" are ferral and demonised which is just not the case.

I can infact tell you that crime as a whole is actually going down and has been for sometime - see this report
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/shared/bsp/hi/pdfs/16_07_09_bcs.pdf

chris321 said:
What?! You mean the police don't all think we're murderers, terrorists, and peadophiles?! But that's what I read in The Sun, so it must be true right?! :LOL:
Click to expand...

Its for this reason that I have stopped reading any newspapers (maybe The Times if I am pushed) and I only get my news from a source that doesnt rely on viewing figures to make money (ie the BBC). Sky News is just as bad :(

Anyway i wouldnt worry about it Stan, just walk away next time and ignore them - Dont become a stastistic and one of these fellas that gets stabbed because they think that they hold the upper hand and think that its a good idea to challange a group of teenagers.

Deep breath, count to 10, walk away and live to shoot another day.

:)
 
oskanoears said:
Stan im sorry to hear of your incident and think you let him off lightly I too went to the park yesterday and was pulled away by my girlfriend... outraged at kids belting snowballs at helpless ducks and geese...whilst I dont condone violence, being punched in the face isnt going to be corrected by "now listen here young man" saldly violence seems to be what the mass of teenagers understand... to all those opposed to stans reply to a punch in the mush...if you haven't seen the new michael caine film yet harry brown please watch it, youl get a real picture of what todays youth is like.http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OVOSfHFNlcI
Click to expand...

Luckily not all teenagers are this bad...

But small incidents that happen give them bad publicity....
 
Stan The Man,

Was it a good kick, like the one you'd see Johnny Wilkonson doing, or was a girly kick like that of a Sunday League footy player? Hope it taught the little oik a lesson...

By the way, I had that happen to me and some mates while out in town one evening. Walking along my mate has a burger thrown at his head by a yoof. It ruined his nice new bobble hat. He told the thrower of said burger to go procreate with himself. The lad didn't like it. He ran up behind my mate, banged him with Tyson-like force on the back of the noggin, knocking him to the ground unconcious. he broke three teeth on impact and bust his nose. My other mate promptly got stuck in and tackled the youth. The yoof's mate was now wading in so i got stuck in. I booted him straight in the face, knocking him out cold. My mate sent the other one scarpering.

I don't think that it was at all a good move to do what we did but we did it and taught them a lesson. I don't regret it but I certainly wouldn't do it again unless seriously provoked.

However, when someone takes a swing at you the blood boils. It's as simple as that.

Stan was right to do what he did as soon as that punch was swung IMO
 
mark.carline..none of the facts i state are leads from the media..just by what i see in general.i know not all hoodie wearing teenagers are bad to the bone[i even wear hoodies myself],and this particular group weren't even wearing hoodies[in fact,looked pretty well presentable].they may well come from decent families for all i know.

sorry kickstart...got my wires crossed again :bonk:
 
Fair play to you sir. I haven't read all the comments here, I got bored, but I would have done the same as you and maybe even gouged his eyes out a little bit too! People under 18 are just getting more and more disrespectful and cocky as generations pass, and I hope you kicked him real hard!
 
I'm sorry that this happened Stan.

I'm glad that you managed to show restraint as a second blow could perhaps have been viewed as too much and made you liable to a charge or at least some intimidating questioning if the police had been involved.

I'm glad that this incident didn't go any further and I hope that you haven't been too upset by it. I do worry what would have happened if someone less well controlled and self assured as yourself had been the target of the attack as they may have suffered more both physically and mentally. I'm sure that an incident like this would greatly upset many people should they be victim to it.

To those who seem to believe that throwing snowballs at cars and people is ok, it isn't, please grow up. :nono:
 
Stan before attack:
GurmanPortrait.jpg


Stan during attack:
basketball-kick.jpg


Stan after attack:
photo07hiressu9.jpg


:D:D:D
 
Dave W said:
Case law provides a precedent that you can actually use a pre-emptive strike.

If you honestly and genuinely believe someone is about to hit you then it is perfectly lawful to give them a smack in the gob to dissuade them from doing so.
Click to expand...

Just like Steven Gerrard did a while ago. He ONLY THOUGHT he was going to get hit so beat the crap out of the barman / DJ and got away with it in self defence.

Thoguh I'd hazard to bet that if it was you or me we'd be done for assault.
 
Giving someone a slap should always be a last resort, but to be honest if you hadn't defended yourself how long before mob mentality took over and his pals decided to join in? It sounds like you took control of a situation that could have quickly gotten out of hand, so hats off to you - personally you wouldn't have seen me for a fresh pair of heels :)

But I've seen it go the other way, my neighbor confronted some youths he thought were up to no good on Boxing Day and got a bit of a kicking - they were able to cite self defense so they are classed as the victims...a bit borderline but probably correct as well, but it goes to show it doesn't always end up the way you expect.
 
For the people that say what the kids are doing is no worse than what we used to do. I have to disagree with you on that one. & years ago i was jumped by a groupe of 15 or 16 of 17 to 18 year olds while waling home. For my trouble i got a week in hospital with a fractured scull and scaring to the right hand side of my brain. Since that attack i developed epilepsy started blacking out, lost my job(HGV driver) and am on tablets for the rest of my life. All because of the pack mentality of these inbreds that we have running the streets now. I did manage to take 2 of them down with me. They then tried to press charges against me for it. Luckily the whole indecent was seen and they got noware but in trouble themselves.
 
keeps21 said:
Just like Steven Gerrard did a while ago. He ONLY THOUGHT he was going to get hit so beat the crap out of the barman / DJ and got away with it in self defence.

Thoguh I'd hazard to bet that if it was you or me we'd be done for assault.
Click to expand...

Well that's why Steven Gerrard elected for a jury trial. He could have murdered someone and his peers from Merseyside would have acquitted.:D
 
Talk about restraint, this guy certainly puts up with a lot of abuse before defending himself:eek:

[YOUTUBE]J8ojeHySYSA&feature=related[/YOUTUBE]
 
wack61 said:
Talk about restraint, this guy certainly puts up with a lot of abuse before defending himself:eek:

[YOUTUBE]J8ojeHySYSA&feature=related[/YOUTUBE]
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Les hits the deck, an Youtube classic!!! I love the fact the big fella is definitely martial arts trained, his controlled stance is a picture as he walks towards Les to clock the cheeky fekka!!
 
Stan, fair play, and judging by your display picture you know some moves.. :) its good you diffused it then rather than letting them carry on. hope the new year brightens up for you mate!


Chris
 
Now I remember why I left England :(.

That country is doomed ....
 
I agree with you mate, I certainly wouldnt have let the little sods get away with it and never have. Although, I will admit that I was in Harlem once with my cousin, and he cut up someone trying to get a parking space. An argument then immediatley happened between the two of them, and then guns were drawn at each other... now there's confrontation and theres confrontation I crapped myself and stayed in the car. Luckily, lots of shouting ensued and then the other guy left without anyone "busting any caps".

Gave me a sobering lesson on how quickly a situation can esculate, and has always been in my mind before I get into a confrontation with people nowadays... especially as these little scrotes nowadays like to carry knives.
 
Hi Stan. Glad you and your kit are Ok. I may have told you about when I was confronted while out with my gear by four youths about 17/18. One was armed with a chisel and another with a crowbar. I managed to talk my way out of it and called the old bill. I knew where they hung out and the copper arrester two of them. Cut a long story short 2 were sent down and one was given a suspended sentence, the other was never found.
Stan good on you for what you did I only wish I could have done the same.
One thing I don't think has been mentioned is that it is unwise to take these (think of the strongest swear word and insert here). Is it worth losing your life over your camera equipment. I am sure if I had argued or threatened them I would either be in hospital or the ground.
For weeks after I would not go to a public place with my gear and still avoid places where there might be drugged up youths.
All the best Stan
Dai
 
Can't believe I just read all 398 posts....

Gotta be honest, probably exactly the same way I would have reacted. Possibly not the wisest course of action has been pointed out by many but then again, probably the most likely. Hope the guy thinks twice about chucking snowballs at people again.

I was in the centre of town the other day going from one shop to another when I had three thrown at me. Pain in the ass, gave them the finger and carried on. No potential harm, no foul.

On the other hand I was leaving a building where we were leaving a meeting last year. Not the best place in town and such but as we were leaving we had to physically restrain some kids from pushing past us into our building. One took offence and whilst we were driving off, rushed over to an older gentleman's car, he must be getting on for 65ish now and pulled the door open, proceeding to put the boot in. I exited the vehicle I was in with all due haste, his mates took one look at me and pulled the guy off. If they hadn't I honestly had malice on my mind. To be honest even after we had managed to leave I still wanted to go back and give the guy a piece of my mind.

In hindsight there are probably better ways to have dealt with it (maybe) whilst it's happening it's a different story, guess that's why they say you get wiser as you get older, life experience helps there.

edit: By the way whilst I'm definately an adherent to turning the other cheek, I am human enough to say that I'm kinda glad you stood up to the guy.
 
I would say you were in the right to smash his face in, clearly they started it and you would have got away with self defence.

I personally would have battered him with my elbows as I have no patience for doyles like this......and I get agressive quite quickly lol
 
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