1. juggler

    juggler

    Messages:
    4,327
    Name:
    Simon
    Edit My Images:
    No
    Well, maybe not really a beginner :)

    If you're going to be at Bury St Edmunds camera club tonight then do introduce yourself. I'l be the one at the front wittering on about lighting.
     
  2. Harlequin565

    Harlequin565

    Messages:
    3,014
    Name:
    Ian
    Edit My Images:
    No
    Good luck Simon! I sincerely hope you have a better time than I did at my first.

    They'll be a lucky bunch if they can get over their egos... See... This is why I shouldn't be allowed out :)

    Seriously - have a great time!
     
    MatBin likes this.
  3. juggler

    juggler

    Messages:
    4,327
    Name:
    Simon
    Edit My Images:
    No
    Thanks! They seem like a friendly bunch so far :)
     
  4. Chipper

    Chipper

    Messages:
    1,760
    Edit My Images:
    No
    Yes - have a good time. I belong to two cameras clubs and they are very different. I have learnt a huge amount belonging to one and they are extremely helpful. I hope you have a good time.
     
    juggler likes this.
  5. juggler

    juggler

    Messages:
    4,327
    Name:
    Simon
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    No
    Well, the club was fun - and they were a very welcoming bunch.

    I've no idea what people really made of my talk / demo. It was a bit tricky to know where to pitch the material given that few of the attendees had any real interest in lighting or portraiture; I suspect I waffled rather a lot. I do hope I've got some of them thinking a bit more about light in general.

    I did make them photograph each other - which caused some merriment!
     
    ancient_mariner and sphexx like this.
  6. jpgreenwood

    jpgreenwood

    Messages:
    785
    Name:
    jason
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    Yes
    I've tried a couple of local camera clubs and they didn't really appeal to me. I'm quite "youthful" in life (some will probably call it immature lol), l'm not afraid of getting into rivers and climbing down slippery slopes to get a good shot. I found most people at these clubs were a little less mobile than me and were a safe bunch. All nice people but mostly retired. Lots of photography days out were arranged during the week when I'm at work and were all very safe locations. I once witnessed a small in-club competition and it was very bitchy. I never went back after that. Maybe I'm difficult to please and 'm sure all clubs are not like this.
     
    Graham W and Bearair like this.
  7. Canon f1.8

    Canon f1.8

    Messages:
    213
    Name:
    Paul
    Edit My Images:
    Yes
    Went once to my local camera club, it was very clicky, I felt way out of my comfort zone so never went back.
     
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  8. DG Phototraining

    DG Phototraining Woof

    Messages:
    4,384
    Name:
    Dave
    Edit My Images:
    Yes
    I gave my presentation on being a Wedding Photographer again last night, it went down so well I was invited to the pub afterwards too :D

    If you're wanting to do this sort of thing again @juggler then I'd suggest dropping the Committee member who Booked you asking for commentary - here's my "standard" type of thank you and comment message...


    Many thanks for inviting me along to present last night, it seemed to be well received and a pint in the pub afterwards was a bonus :D

    I always like feedback on my presentations too, so if you could ask your members for their 'real' comments that'd be helpful thanks

    I'm not after any polite backslapping, just honest feedback about what the group liked, didn't like or any ideas on how it can be improved; yours was version 5 as I've already amended some parts in response to crit & ideas from previous clubs

    Thanks again


    I always enjoy them and getting paid a bit too (£75 in my case) is a bonus :)

    Once you have (I'm sure) positive comments back you can use that as a means of approaching other clubs too, I find it fun but it does drive some other business enquiries too so there's a hint of commercial sense about sharing your knowledge in this way too

    If you were close enough to me I'd happily come to watch :)

    Cheers

    Dave
     
  9. juggler

    juggler

    Messages:
    4,327
    Name:
    Simon
    Edit My Images:
    No
    Beat you to it :)
     
  10. DG Phototraining

    DG Phototraining Woof

    Messages:
    4,384
    Name:
    Dave
    Edit My Images:
    Yes
  11. Harlequin565

    Harlequin565

    Messages:
    3,014
    Name:
    Ian
    Edit My Images:
    No
    I find in a group, there's always someone who isn't interested, someone on their phone, someone trying desperately to stay awake and two people just who can't wait to hold their conversation. It's not possible to please "all the people all the time" and it's one of the challenges of delivering to a relatively small audience. Keeps you on your toes though :)

    If you're doing fun things and getting people to laugh I guarantee you did a fab job. People like to be engaged (and not lectured for 2 hours)

    And a big +1 on critical feedback. I revise my notes every single year based on things I'm told. Best feedback ever (on a January-March evening class course) was "it would have been better if the evenings were lighter".

    Glad it went well!
     
    juggler likes this.
  12. viewfromthenorth

    viewfromthenorth

    Messages:
    2,620
    Name:
    Andy
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    No
    I do between 4 and 10 talks a year, done about 30 so far. I can now do 90 minutes without my voice fading to a husky whisper after 70

    I’m not in a camera club myself any more, but always enjoy visiting clubs to do talks. Sure, you’ll always get someone who falls asleep, and given my rather niche area of photography, not everyone will be interested. However, I always point out at the start of the talk that even if you hate the photographs, hopefully people might find an interesting place, photographer, technique, website or idea to take away and explore further.

    I may be undercharging at £50
     
    juggler likes this.
  13. DG Phototraining

    DG Phototraining Woof

    Messages:
    4,384
    Name:
    Dave
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    Yes

    No-one EVER falls asleep at my talks, but then I engage them too so I demand attention lol

    £50 for you Andy is stupidly cheap - Hell I'd consider driving UP NORFF for one of yours too just to see your work, where I'd also sit in the front - asking questions - so best you don't tell me your dates :)

    Dave
     
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  14. viewfromthenorth

    viewfromthenorth

    Messages:
    2,620
    Name:
    Andy
    Edit My Images:
    No
    Cheers Dave, I’m not sure whether people falling asleep is due to the camera club demographic or my ‘droll’ delivery! I may need some charisma lessons from you

    I actually felt I was undercharging when just asking for expenses, numerous times I got asked ‘is that all?’ when asking for £16.40 or whatever. That said, at a recent talk the treasurer thought my fee was £75 and looked a bit taken aback when I said I’d agreed £50. At the risk of sounding hypocritical, it’s not about the money though, I just enjoy talking to people about my work! Hope to see you at one, one day?
     
    DG Phototraining likes this.
  15. StevenS

    StevenS

    Messages:
    255
    Name:
    Steven
    Edit My Images:
    No
    I joined a local camera club in January. Probably been 5 or 6 times. They seem obsessed with rules and competitions and the judges seem to have fixed criteria about what makes a good or bad photograph, can't tell the difference between digital and film and insist that images must have flaws or unwanted objects processed out (I don't use photoshop and do minimal post-processing). I just like looking art interesting photography, preferably travel photography. When I first went along I had no idea it was such a competitive business. There are three clubs within about 15 minutes of me. I think I'll just look out for speakers that interest me.
     
  16. jpgreenwood

    jpgreenwood

    Messages:
    785
    Name:
    jason
    Edit My Images:
    Yes
    Exactly this^

    Delusions of adequacy!
     
  17. juggler

    juggler

    Messages:
    4,327
    Name:
    Simon
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    No
    From the splendid feedback I've received so far that seems to be very much the case. It sounds as though a lot of their lectures are rather dry, very long and include a lot of showing off.
     
    Harlequin565 likes this.
  18. Nostromo

    Nostromo

    Messages:
    2,414
    Name:
    Dominic
    Edit My Images:
    Yes
    I like my camera club. It's not very big, about 35/40 members. We have one comp a month, alternated between print and dpi and a few cup comps. The rest of the weeks are filled with talks/presentations and fun nights. There are a few club outings, birds of prey, night photography, white water rafting etc. It's a good mix of things.
    You can't really control a judges comments, some do seem to stick to a script, but you can either choose to ignore them or take on board what they have to say.
    When I've seen photos from some of other clubs, a lot of the images seem very samey (if that's a word), heavily photoshopped composites and it all becomes very boring.
     
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  19. viewfromthenorth

    viewfromthenorth

    Messages:
    2,620
    Name:
    Andy
    Edit My Images:
    No
    I don’t remember doing a talk at that particular club

    When I was a member of my local club, some of the lectures were excellent, but some were mind numbingly awful to the point that I left at the interval.
    We had one lady who shouted the entire lecture from a script very loudly, another guy who showed no more than 8 mediocre pictures in the first half and preached the importance of the rule of thirds but the creme de la creme was a two and a half hour lecture by a chap on the steam trains and coal mines of Bavaria. Now I’m quite interested in industrial subjects but this was uninteresting photographs presented and depicted in an unspeakably tedious manner and he didn’t even dignify us with an interval half way through. Mind you, most would have walked out if he had......
     
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  20. juggler

    juggler

    Messages:
    4,327
    Name:
    Simon
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    No
    During my talk I did mention my innate lack of desire to photograph steam trains. No-one seemed to take offence!
     
  21. chris malcolm

    chris malcolm

    Messages:
    1,312
    Name:
    Chris
    Edit My Images:
    Yes
    What put me off from joining a local camera club which runs annual exhibitions was going to one of their exhibitions. What I said at the time was "They shouldn't have called this a photography exhibition! They should have called it a Photoshop exhibition! Hardly any of these are photographs of anything that anyone with the photographer could possibly have seen. They're mostly arty composites of multiple images some of which were once parts of photographs. Not what I would call photography. It owes something to photography in the same way that someone who glues bits of cut out newspapers to furniture owes something to journalism, but in no way is a piece of furniture covered in bits of newspaper a kind of journalism."
     
    PetethePrimate likes this.
  22. Chipper

    Chipper

    Messages:
    1,760
    Edit My Images:
    No
    Well, not all clubs are like that and, if a bit of research is done, a one off visit is ually enough to tell you what the club is like.
     
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  23. Harlequin565

    Harlequin565

    Messages:
    3,014
    Name:
    Ian
    Edit My Images:
    No
    I'll take your steam trains and raise you a 2 hour talk on how to do white balance in photoshop. Delivered in the same tone as the teacher from Ferris Bueller. There's 2 hours of my life I won't get back.
     
  24. viewfromthenorth

    viewfromthenorth

    Messages:
    2,620
    Name:
    Andy
    Edit My Images:
    No
    That sounds like no beginning of fun!

    In fairness, I’ve seen some very good speakers as well in my time, only thing was my old clubs syllabus was predominantly lectures so we had the full spectrum of good, bad and indifferent. And this was what prompted me a) to leave, and b) to do my own talks that were a bit different to the norm.

    One thing that continues to surprise me at my talks is when I refer to photographers from the past (and even some contemporary ones) and how few people tend to have heard of them.
     
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  25. Ed Sutton

    Ed Sutton

    Messages:
    4,105
    Name:
    Dave
    Edit My Images:
    No
    Not unlike this place. :exit:
     
  26. jerry12953

    jerry12953

    Messages:
    8,433
    Name:
    Jeremy Moore
    Edit My Images:
    No
    Just as a matter of interest, I've been asked to do a talk at a camera club a couple of times, one about 80 miles away, for which I quoted £100 (+ VAT) . I never heard back from either.

    I didn't think that was an excessive fee; how does that seem to other people?
     
  27. Chipper

    Chipper

    Messages:
    1,760
    Edit My Images:
    No
    I think, and I may be a little out of date as I stepped out of committee stuff 5 or 6 months ago, it's about half that plus travel but perhaps a treasurer or two might know better. Of course, there are some some names that charge a whole lot more than that.
     
    jerry12953 likes this.
  28. Harlequin565

    Harlequin565

    Messages:
    3,014
    Name:
    Ian
    Edit My Images:
    No
    80 miles is quite a way. What's that - just under 2 hours? Each way? 4 hours in the car & a 2 hour talk is quite a dent in your day. Presume it's an evening club so that means setting of during rush hour adding more journey time? So whilst it might be a lot to a camera club, it feels like a suitable recompense to me.
     
    jerry12953 likes this.
  29. jerry12953

    jerry12953

    Messages:
    8,433
    Name:
    Jeremy Moore
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    No

    Plus the overnight of course. Glad you agree with me that it wasn't excessive. Anyway, as I said, I never heard back from them, but I will quote that fee again if anyone else asks - "because I'm worth it"!
     
    Graham W likes this.
  30. DG Phototraining

    DG Phototraining Woof

    Messages:
    4,384
    Name:
    Dave
    Edit My Images:
    Yes
    Fees are often just travel based on a silly calculation so I go with 45p per mile for Judging, so Speaker I simply charge £75 as a flat rate - but then I'd never consider going anything like that far for just £75 either

    So I don't think your rate was too bad, just a bit too far for travel to make sense of going anyway for me

    Dave
     
  31. yzfmike

    yzfmike

    Messages:
    40
    Edit My Images:
    No
    For a judge we expect to pay travel expenses at the PAGB (Photographic Alliance of Great Britain) recommended rate - currently 45p per mile.

    For a speaker we expect to pay travel expenses plus an agreed fee.

    The performance of judges and speakers is variable but, by liaising with other clubs we normally get good quality, interesting, speakers - some are outstanding. Speakers costs are between £50 and $150 inc travel expenses
     
  32. jerry12953

    jerry12953

    Messages:
    8,433
    Name:
    Jeremy Moore
    Edit My Images:
    No
    Useful to know there are standard rates.

    Thanks.
     
  33. viewfromthenorth

    viewfromthenorth

    Messages:
    2,620
    Name:
    Andy
    Edit My Images:
    No
    I charge a flat £50 for weekday talks a maximum of 50 miles / 1 hour from home, and a minimum £75 for weekend talks.
     
  34. PetethePrimate

    PetethePrimate

    Messages:
    2,121
    Name:
    Pete
    Edit My Images:
    No
    Before I moved, the local club I went to was ace. We either met in a friend's cafe on Saturday mornings for a (semi) serious chat/indoor session or arranged trips out to local places of interest. No committee or hierarchy and it worked well because we had a good mix of ages and experience. Our monthly compo was voted on by the cafe's customers (rather than by us) and one year we got some funding to produce a calendar which raised over £500 for a local charity. Now, the only local(ish) clubs I have found have their agendas set up for the next 12 months with no organised trips or any apparent encouragement of its members to do anything other than turn up for these evening sessions/talks. I went to one meet where one of the joint chairs talked over the other and an open floor on how best to put on an exhibition was dire . Half the fun for me is to go out somewhere with other people and shoot and learn from your mistakes whilst sharing some knowledge/experience along the way.
    And yes, I hate it when photoshop takes precedent over camera technique - you can't polish a turd even tho' some people think photoshop will. "Oh I can photoshop that out/in" Yes, it has it's uses but it's about photography not an Adobe product.
     
    Last edited: Oct 17, 2018 at 11:39 PM
    Manxmaid likes this.
  35. Manxmaid

    Manxmaid

    Messages:
    3,925
    Name:
    Andrea
    Edit My Images:
    Yes
    It's interesting to read of all the experiences of different types of club. My local club meets twice a month from September to May, with a Christmas party (well, a meal with a fun print competition on the night) and an end-of-season awards night and buffet. During the summer we organise three exhibitions of our work at local shows and also try to have 2-3 group outings.

    We have 20-25 members on an average night, with ages ranging from late 40s to 70s and abilities from novices to accomplished. Our meetings generally alternate between a competition night with a guest judge and a 'club night' when we have a guest speaker or an activity of some sort. Being on a small island we are unable to draw guest speakers from a wide area but thankfully there are some good local photographers who are experts in their field and willing to share their images and tips. Twice a year our club takes part in a 2-way or 3-way competition with one or both of the other clubs on the island, and we also supply the images for a local company's calendar, which helps to promote our club.

    I have enjoyed all aspects of the last two years and learned a lot as well as making some good new friends. At the end of last season I was invited to join the committee and I am enjoying the process of planning the activities and helping to set the direction for the future. It helps that we are a small club and probably not as competitive as others, so our meetings are more about enjoying each others' images, learning from each other and encouraging the new members.

    I would recommend that anyone interested in their local club should make contact and go along for a meeting or two to get an idea of how they operate - most clubs will gladly welcome prospective members and suggest they come along for a look and a chat. Hopefully you will meet some like-minded people from your area and be able to take part in trips and activities as well as learn from the competition process (even if it is just that judges can wildly disagree about the same image!).
     
    Last edited: Oct 18, 2018 at 12:23 AM
    DG Phototraining likes this.
  36. welshwizard645

    welshwizard645

    Messages:
    978
    Name:
    Peter
    Edit My Images:
    No
    We learnt something in our club last week - very interesting speaker - he submits photos to international salons. We saw before and after images, many that were rescued in PS. When international salon selectors view a photo they have 5-6 seconds to make a judgement, a photo in this case needs to have made a significant impact in that time. In a normal competition/critique judges have 2 minutes or more to consider each photo and any photo selected for an international could be torn to pieces and end up with a 6 out of 10.

    In our club we have a great range of speakers, some brilliant and some rather 'disappointing' to put it mildly. For 'better' speakers we have paying nights to help with expenses. We actively provide feedback and sometimes reading reviews is more entertaining than the presentations; sometimes what was good for one member wasn't for another, you can't please everyone all the time. Cliques also exist everywhere but in my club it isn't so bad.
     

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