Interesting blog about the iPad

mrgubby said:
I was going to put :razz: but thought that would be a bit strong ;)



This is a bit that worries me as well, I'm so used to having a horizontal control surface & a vertical viewing area I'm not sure how to use the iPad. I could cope with browsing but I'm not sure about holding the iPad for 2 hours while watching a film.

If it is released with a stand I could imagine it as an excellent cooking aid & brilliant for watching TV in the bath (y)
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I think it depends how you hold it right. So the way I describe could be too much. But is it going to be any heavier than a hardback? Right now I'm Reading a hardback rested on my legs and it's fine. In bed a put it at an angle to the side.

Perhaps the same experience will be true of the ipad
 
joescrivens said:
I think it depends how you hold it right. So the way I describe could be too much. But is it going to be any heavier than a hardback? Right now I'm Reading a hardback rested on my legs and it's fine. In bed a put it at an angle to the side.

Perhaps the same experience will be true of the ipad
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1.5 pounds apparently.
 
This thread is fail :). Joe, you are 100% biased, 100%....you are incapable of seeing any other point of view.
 
I'm entirely undecided on the iPad because I haven't used one. I will reserve judgement until I have had a long play with one. I'm amazed by peoples' wild opinions on something they have only looked at pictures of.
 
joescrivens said:
How much heavier than a hardback is that I wonder
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I reckon if you dropped an ipad on your head it would hurt more than the book.
But that's just my opinion, I mean some peeps have a numbness of the skull in parts and thus opinion may vary...

wait....did I say opinion...I meant fact of course, yes fact may vary..


:|
 
Kaouthia said:
I have to admit, that's quite shocking. I never expected to see the word "arsed" in The Guardian.
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He's a passionate man, that Charlie Brooker :LOL:
 
ROFL ROFL ROFL

Even more shocking..

The Guardian said:
Videocalls are overrated anyway. You just sit there staring at each other with nothing to say. It's like a prison visit: eventually one of you has to start masturbating just to break the tension.
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I wonder if I'd get in trouble with the mods if I put that in my sig. :p
 
Kaouthia said:
The biggest complaint about lack of flash was not games. It was streaming multimedia through sites like Youtube, Vimeo, Hulu (for peeps in the US).
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Yes, as a Flash developer I'm fully aware of that. But I'm not talking about complaints, I'm talking about why Cra pple aren't putting Flash on their devices.
 
joescrivens said:
You reckon? If in a years time you are wrong can I say "I told you so?"
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Of course you can :)

jontucker said:
I find that mindbogglingly short sighted. The fact that the screen is MUCH bigger, even if there are no other differences, makes this device substantially different with regard to the software that can be written for it.



What is it that Apple are 'doing'?
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Protectionism is what Steve Jobs and Cra pple are best at... and it'll keep on going until they decide what you can and can't see on the internet. It's already happening.
 
KayJay said:
Yes, as a Flash developer I'm fully aware of that. But I'm not talking about complaints, I'm talking about why Cra pple aren't putting Flash on their devices.
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"Haven't", not "aren't". It's been said that flash support has been added to the iPhone OS v4.0 (apparently shipping with the iPad). Whether that is true or not remains to be seen though.
 
KayJay said:
Protectionism is what Steve Jobs and Cra pple are best at... and it'll keep on going until they decide what you can and can't see on the internet. It's already happening.
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Indeed. Of course, people always have the option of not buying apple products if viable alternatives are available. The only people who are being affected are those who purchase the products, and there a lot more people out there who don't buy Apple stuff than those that do.

Steve and his crew aren't telling me what I can and can't do on my PCs.
 
Kaouthia said:
Indeed. Of course, people always have the option of not buying apple products if viable alternatives are available. The only people who are being affected are those who purchase the products, and there a lot more people out there who don't buy Apple stuff than those that do.

Steve and his crew aren't telling me what I can and can't do on my PCs.
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Well this is true. I guess it only becomes a worry when their market share increases.
 
Kaouthia said:
"Haven't", not "aren't". It's been said that flash support has been added to the iPhone OS v4.0 (apparently shipping with the iPad). Whether that is true or not remains to be seen though.
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If that is true I'll be pleasantly surprised. I wonder if Microsoft will also pursue their case to have Silverlight support.

I did read an interesting statistic today on the Adobe CTO's blog that on some macs Flash runs 20% slower in OSX than it does in Windows and IE8 (using bootcamp on the same hardware). I wonder if performance issues such as this are also stalling Flash support on their mobile devices.
 
KayJay said:
I did read an interesting statistic today on the Adobe CTO's blog...
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That is quite interesting. Given Apple's determination to get that dominant market share (although, with the current state of things, I'm not convinced that's going to happen, certainly not any time soon), I'm surprised they seem to be alienating Adobe so badly.

I'd say that well over half of the various Adobe video tutorials I find online (Photoshop & AfterEffects mostly) are done on a Mac (oh, yes and they're almost all flash videos). So, given their apparent attitude towards Adobe, it seems so odd that they'd risk a relationship so ingrained into peoples' minds as a perfect marriage.

I wonder if Adobe will shift more towards giving Windows software development the priority over Mac as a "Yeah, well, take that Apple!" response.
 
That happened with the CS4 release as far as I remember. Mac users had to wait a couple of months before they could use CS4 at its full potential due to some hardware support issues.
 
Kaouthia said:
That is quite interesting. Given Apple's determination to get that dominant market share (although, with the current state of things, I'm not convinced that's going to happen, certainly not any time soon), I'm surprised they seem to be alienating Adobe so badly.

I'd say that well over half of the various Adobe video tutorials I find online (Photoshop & AfterEffects mostly) are done on a Mac (oh, yes and they're almost all flash videos). So, given their apparent attitude towards Adobe, it seems so odd that they'd risk a relationship so ingrained into peoples' minds as a perfect marriage.

I wonder if Adobe will shift more towards giving Windows software development the priority over Mac as a "Yeah, well, take that Apple!" response.
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http://www.wired.com/epicenter/2010/01/googles-dont-be-evil-mantra-is-********-adobe-is-lazy-apples-steve-jobs/

About Adobe: They are lazy, Jobs says. They have all this potential to do interesting things but they just refuse to do it. They don’t do anything with the approaches that Apple is taking, like Carbon. Apple does not support Flash because it is so buggy, he says. Whenever a Mac crashes more often than not it’s because of Flash. No one will be using Flash, he says. The world is moving to HTML5.
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Flash does make Safari (on OSX) crash often. I can understand why they don't want something so buggy on the the iPhone or iPad. People are used to desktops/laptops crashing, it's expected to happen occasionally but if the iPhone crashed that often the blame would be given to Apple, not Adobe.

There is a new version of Flash player in beta, 10.1 I think it is, so maybe that will be available in iPhoneOS 4.

You are right though, I have to ring Steve Jobs every day and ask him if I can go on the internet... :thumbsdown:
 
Nifkin said:
I like this article too:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2010/feb/01/ipad-therefore-iwant-why-idunno

;)
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Thats a good article. Made me chuckle

"Personally, I'm not sure whether I'll buy an iPad, although I think – I think – I'm about to buy a MacBook. Yes, I was a dyed-in-the-wool Mac sceptic for years. Yes, I've written screeds bemoaning the infuriating breed of smug Apple monks who treat all PC owners with condescending pity. But being chained to a Sony Vaio for the last few weeks has convinced me that I'd rather use a laptop that just works, rather than one that's so ponderous, stuttering and irritating I find myself perpetually on the verge of running outside and hurling it into traffic. "
 
Kaouthia said:
Indeed. Of course, people always have the option of not buying apple products if viable alternatives are available. The only people who are being affected are those who purchase the products, and there a lot more people out there who don't buy Apple stuff than those that do.

Steve and his crew aren't telling me what I can and can't do on my PCs.
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Theres also a flip side to this, you could say that Apple are restricting what can be used on their devices and you'd be right but in the same instance they are also opening up a world where amateur programmers can get their product out into the market. Just look out how many people since the invention of the app store have created an app that has now made them money, it's given them an avenue to succeed where they may not have done in the past. For $99 you can become part of the developer network and submit and app to the app store. Ok so Apple have the choice whether to accept or deny it BUT you now have an easy pathway into creating something that might make you some money. I've seen a few articles of nobodys all of a sudden creating an app and becoming hugely successful.
 
I'm hoping to get my hands on a copy of CS5 through work and maybe building a few apps. It's pretty straightforward, especially since I'm a fairly competent AS3 programmer. So that is pretty exciting for me.

Flash player 10.1 will have HD video support too!
 
Might have a go myself too, Still using actionscript 2 though so need to brush up on AS3 first.

But therein lies my point. You are now considering publishing some apps since you have AS3 experience, to what extent would you have thought about building some applications for a mobile device before the app store was invented? Maybe you would have always done it, but the ease of making it in an environment you know will likely make that happen faster.

You never know you might stumble across something and become hugely successful! good luck to you!
 
jontucker said:
http://www.wired.com/epicenter/2010/01/googles-dont-be-evil-mantra-is-********-adobe-is-lazy-apples-steve-jobs/
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URL doesn't work.


jontucker said:
Flash does make Safari (on OSX) crash often.
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Does it make other browsers on OSX crash often or just the one written by Apple?

jontucker said:
the blame would be given to Apple, not Adobe.
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When things crash on Windows, it's Windows' fault. When things crash or don't work on Linux, it's Linux's fault. Why should Apple not take the blame when things crash on their system? :)
 
Kaouthia said:
URL doesn't work.




Does it make other browsers on OSX crash often or just the one written by Apple?


When things crash on Windows, it's Windows' fault. When things crash or don't work on Linux, it's Linux's fault. Why should Apple not take the blame when things crash on their system? :)
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I think that perception is due to the way in which windows and linux are made for computers in general whereas apple make software for apple hardware. So windows and linux have a harder job because the software has to be made to work on all manners of hardware, they have no control over it. Apple has complete control of the OS and the hardware.

Therefore it likely isn't windows or linux thats the issue just like it might not be apple. The crashing reasons are probably the same, but because windows isn't made to be just used on one computer and loses that control the perception is that it was windows that caused the issue. Just look at that other thread in this forum where EdinburghGary was moaning at Win 7 when it turned out to be a hardware problem.

The perception with the OS is different in those cases so people put the blame on things they shouldn't most likely
 
joescrivens said:
The perception with the OS is different in those cases so people put the blame on things they shouldn't most likely
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On a system that "just works". If something doesn't "just work". It's Apple's fault. :)
 
Kaouthia said:
URL doesn't work.
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Weird, it did work. Try here.

Kaouthia said:
Does it make other browsers on OSX crash often or just the one written by Apple?
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No idea. I only use Safari and I'm talking from experience not from what I've read.

Kaouthia said:
When things crash on Windows, it's Windows' fault. When things crash or don't work on Linux, it's Linux's fault. Why should Apple not take the blame when things crash on their system? :)
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Wrong. There are plenty of things that make Windows and Linux crash that aren't their fault. Anyway, I'm not talking about a desktop OS which people accept will crash occasionally (ALL operating systems).

I'm talking about a mobile OS which people expect NOT to crash, at all, ever. Non tech-savy people (read: MOST people) don't realise that it's not alway the OS that's crashed and the OS gets the blame. Apple don't want the iPhone to crash and therefore have not approved (have Adobe even written a mobile Safari plugin??) flash for use on it because they think it's too buggy. That's not the only reason either is it, Flash eats resources, including battery life.
 
Kaouthia said:
Nope.


No, I was talking about the common perception. The majority of people blame Wwindows or Linux when something crashes. Those same people would also blame OSX if something crashed there.
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It's true.

The perception is that since Windows and Linux are made to work on any machine then they should be made to work with everything, if something crashed then it's their fault - they should have been made to work better.

BUT since OSX only works on apple hardware then the perception is that others things should be made to work on their OS.

I'm not saying thats right but that is why people think the way they do.
 
Kaouthia said:
Nope.
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Oh, it's because TP's word filter is changing the link. Replaces the *s with what comes out the back of a bull.


Kaouthia said:
No, I was talking about the common perception. The majority of people blame Wwindows or Linux when something crashes. Those same people would also blame OSX if something crashed there.
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Ok, so we agree. My point, though, is that for a desktop OS, people accept that. For mobile OS they don't. Phones need to work, all the time. If the iPhone kept crashing and ran out of battery every five minutes then it wouldn't be very popular. Apple are just protecting themselves. I think if, between them, Apple/Adobe can get over these issue then we will see Flash on the iPhone/iPad but by that time HTML5 might be gaining on Flash anyway.

The notion that Apple don't want Flash on these devices because it would impinge on their revenue from the app store is ridiculous.... there are thousands of free games in the app store already that apple don't make any money from.
 
jontucker said:
Oh, it's because TP's word filter is changing the link. Replaces the *s with what comes out the back of a bull.




Ok, so we agree. My point, though, is that for a desktop OS, people accept that. For mobile OS they don't. Phones need to work, all the time. If the iPhone kept crashing and ran out of battery every five minutes then it wouldn't be very popular. Apple are just protecting themselves. I think if, between them, Apple/Adobe can get over these issue then we will see Flash on the iPhone/iPad but by that time HTML5 might be gaining on Flash anyway.

The notion that Apple don't want Flash on these devices because it would impinge on their revenue from the app store is ridiculous.... there are thousands of free games in the app store already that apple don't make any money from.
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I think you are still missing his point. What he is saying is when a pc crashes the person blames windows or linux but when a mac crashes the person blames flash or whatever program crashed. Regardless of whether they accept the crash or not the blame is put on different places
 
joescrivens said:
I think you are still missing his point. What he is saying is when a pc crashes the person blames windows or linux but when a mac crashes the person blames flash or whatever program crashed. Regardless of whether they accept the crash or not the blame is put on different places
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I think you're missing MY point. Regardless of who/what gets the blame on a desktop OS, people accept that they will crash occasionally. On a mobile OS, (WHICH IS WHAT WE ARE TALKING ABOUT WITH THE IPHONE/IPAD) people don't accept it so readily.
 
jontucker said:
I think you're missing MY point. Regardless of who/what gets the blame on a desktop OS, people accept that they will crash occasionally. On a mobile OS, (WHICH IS WHAT WE ARE TALKING ABOUT WITH THE IPHONE/IPAD) people don't accept it so readily.
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yeah we all get this theres no need to keep repeating yourself, nobody is denying that or disagreeing with you.

You kept writing this in response to Kaouthia's point about why Apple never get blamed for OS crashes though which is why we keep pointing it out again
 
Ok, let's limit it to Mobile OSes. The only reason I even mentioned the windows/osx blaming thing was because somebody else pointed out about flash crashing his safari...

So, I shall rephrase...

When things crash on Windows Mobile, it's Windows Mobile's fault. Why should Apple not take the blame when things crash on their system? ESPECIALLY, in the case of Apple Mobile, when applications are checked and approved by them in advance?
 
Kaouthia said:
When things crash on Windows Mobile, it's Windows Mobile's fault. Why should Apple not take the blame when things crash on their system? ESPECIALLY, in the case of Apple Mobile, when applications are checked and approved by them in advance?
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Yes, Windows Mobile does get the blame and you and I both know that it's not always the fault of the OS but never the less the general perception is that Windows Mobile crashes. The reason Apple shouldn't take the blame is that they don't have to. They have developed the iPhone and app store in such a way that they don't have to. Microsoft didn't develop Windows mobile that way.
 
jontucker said:
Yes, Windows Mobile does get the blame and you and I both know that it's not always the fault of the OS but never the less the general perception is that Windows Mobile crashes. The reason Apple shouldn't take the blame is that they don't have to. They have developed the iPhone and app store in such a way that they don't have to. Microsoft didn't develop Windows mobile that way.
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I'd say it was the opposite to this - if apple can approve or reject anything that goes on the app store then they should be able to vet applications for their crashing, a windows mobile app was made without microsoft ever getting any say in it. If anything it should be the opposite, apple should be to blame for allowing an app to exist that crashes whereas microsoft shouldn't be blamed for an app crashing they had no say in.

Flash on the other hand is different, apple don't have a say in what flash apps exist on websites so although they can vet the flash plugin they have no control of the application - same position as windows. But when the same flash app crashed on both devices what Kaouthia is saying is why blame windows but not apple?
 
joescrivens said:
I'd say it was the opposite to this - if apple can approve or reject anything that goes on the app store then they should be able to vet applications for their crashing, a windows mobile app was made without microsoft ever getting any say in it. If anything it should be the opposite, apple should be to blame for allowing an app to exist that crashes whereas microsoft shouldn't be blamed for an app crashing they had no say in
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You're still not getting it. And moreover you're proving my point. Apple do everything they can to stop buggy apps from getting in the app store and making the iPhone crash because they know they will get the blame even if it is the app. Fair enough, if they let a buggy app through then they should get the blame.

This discussion was about FLASH, remember. Apple haven't approved Flash for use on the iPhone because they obviously think there is a problem with it (whatever that problem is, I'm not speculating on that). Therefore they're not getting the blame for it crashing (etc) the iPhone.
 
jontucker said:
You're still not getting it. And moreover you're proving my point. Apple do everything they can to stop buggy apps from getting in the app store and making the iPhone crash because they know they will get the blame even if it is the app. Fair enough, if they let a buggy app through then they should get the blame.

This discussion was about FLASH, remember. Apple haven't approved Flash for use on the iPhone because they obviously think there is a problem with it (whatever that problem is, I'm not speculating on that). Therefore they're not getting the blame for it crashing (etc) the iPhone.
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firstly, I already said that above and secondly here is the point, read carefully:

BUT WHY DO WINDOWS GET THAT BLAME IF APPLE DON'T?

I can't make it any more simple than that!
 
jontucker said:
The reason Apple shouldn't take the blame is that they don't have to. They have developed the iPhone and app store in such a way that they don't have to.
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Apple approves every single item that runs on the iPhone, why should they not be blamed when something goes wrong?
 
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