It's official... digital is crap...

9 shows in 12 months.

I may be unknown in your world... but as that seems to consist of an armchair, no surprise there.

...and it's all exactly like the stuff on Flickr.

You are unknown, commercially unsuccessful and would not be able to live off the money you make from commissions. Them's the facts.

As for flickr, you could probably find your 'original' work or concept on there. As I said, you've not seen 99.95% of what is on it.
 
Removed
 
Last edited:
You are unknown, commercially unsuccessful and would not be able to live off the money you make from commissions. Them's the facts.

Been paying my bills with a camera for over quarter of a century: You never take any photographs. I'm content doing what I do now, so glean whatever schadenfreude you want, from whatever scenario you wish to invent for me. It's an irrelevance to me.


As for flickr, you could probably find your 'original' work or concept on there. As I said, you've not seen 99.95% of what is on it.

Maybe, maybe not - if you're right, we'll never know :) It's certainly full of stuff that looks like Joe Cornish though when I search for Landscape. Even more of it is just utter rubbish you can dismiss at a glance, granted... But.. Far less of it looks like most of David Ward's work for example because his work is clearly better conceived, and his work more original. For that reason alone, I think David Ward is immeasurably better than Cornish because I'm not judging Cornish by his popularity. Having said that, it's still landscape and I think it's one of the most difficult art forms to be original with, as the only way you can inject any of yourself into it, is the REASON you're taking the landscape and not the landscape itself. Landscape needs to stop merely showing things for showing's sake because unless it does, pretty soon, the only way to get any originality is to try to find more and more remote, or exotic locations, as that's all there is left now. We've seen everything. You can't keep photographing the same stuff and expect anyone to think of it as artful except other photographers, and they only really do so by appreciating the technical. You heard it in the talk between Cornish and Ward - the vast majority of the conversation was about composition, or technical matters... not the place.. the SUBJECT itself. It's almost as if the subject is irrelevant once the image is taken... that it's served it's purpose and all there is to discuss now is the photograph. How boring must that be when everyone who views your work just wants to talk about the actual image and not the reasons behind the image? It's as they want us to talk about THEM really... by discussing THEIR work. I'm content to disappear into the background and have people discuss the work because that's what I actually want. Why would I want someone asking me why I placed blade of grass X in corner Y? I probably never even noticed blade of grass X... I bet David Ward never gave that blade of grass a moment's thought either at the time. Time and time again I hear the usual detractors referring to Art Speak, yet have you heard those two bang on about each other's work? Tell me that's not sheer b******s being talked right there. How the barn "projects" into the space left by the grass... and how the blades of grass form an exclamation point (even though it doesn't)? What?? Does any of that actually matter or make me think differently when I view it? No. No one would even notice such irrelevances.

Any way...... All Flickr is, is a barometer of what's popular, not what's good. Art has never followed popular fashion, never has, never will. You can't make any kind of art if all you do is copy what's already popular - not unless you're doing it on purpose to appropriate it for some other use..... other than it's intended one.. or you're parodying it.


I think there are two types of photographers the purest and the artistic.
For me a purest image is a transparency no filters even a polariser ! YOU CANT OR LIGHTEN DARKEN THE IMAGES ! It is presented as it was taken and processed !
"NOT CROSS PROCESSED EITHER "
Then you have the artist who likes woking with scanned film or digital images manipulating and creating images not unlike dark room users who would dodge burn or sandwich images.
For me they both have a place in our world just in different places.


So artists only manipulate and only purists don't? Quite a polarised view isn't it? Do you break everything else in life down to such binaries? It probably makes life easier, but it probably means you truly understand little.
 
You have no commercial or critical success and are unknown in the world of photography, so what is it that makes you better than those who do have that? A few images in a project forum on talk photography?

Do you know what, I have no idea what PH real name is, so wouldn't know if I'd seen his work or not. However as a mature student on an arts based degree, sometimes/often his insights are very useful.

Quite liked his mermaid work, that showed some real long commitment to a project, as did the railway project, local, involved, interesting.
 
How the barn "projects" into the space left by the grass... and how the blades of grass form an exclamation point (even though it doesn't)? What?? Does any of that actually matter or make me think differently when I view it? No. No one would even notice such irrelevances.
You're inescapably right, David, that there's a popular concentration / obsession with surface rather than meaning. But aesthetics are also a part of the craft of image-making that can have emotional* / intellectual repercussions for the viewer, so don't dismiss them altogether.
 
I think there are two types of photographers the purest and the artistic.
For me a purest image is a transparency no filters even a polariser ! YOU CANT OR LIGHTEN DARKEN THE IMAGES ! It is presented as it was taken and processed !
"NOT CROSS PROCESSED EITHER "
Then you have the artist who likes woking with scanned film or digital images manipulating and creating images not unlike dark room users who would dodge burn or sandwich images.
For me they both have a place in our world just in different places.

So many points in between. We have the journalistic/documentary who are being asked for unprocessed images, to reflect the truth, right up to collages, hdr and all points in between. None are wrong if they deliver the image thats right for the situation, it's all about the image and how it's presented, perceived, interpreted, what does the creator want people to take from it.

Just read an interesting article on how people look at images.In their article, Catherine Lutz and Jane Collins explore the gaze and all its dimensions through the examination of National Geographic photographs.
http://iscte.pt/~fgvs/Lutz.pdf

1. The photographer's gaze
2. The institutional, magazine gaze
3. The readers' gaze
4. The non-Western subjects' gaze
5. The explicit looking done by Westerners who are often framed together with locals in the picture
6. The gaze returned or refracted by the mirrors or cameras that are shown, in a surprising number of photographs, in local hands
7. Our own, academic gaze.

Different ways of looking at images, different ways the images can be interpreted
 
Do you know what, I have no idea what PH real name is, so wouldn't know if I'd seen his work or not. However as a mature student on an arts based degree, sometimes/often his insights are very useful.

Quite liked his mermaid work, that showed some real long commitment to a project, as did the railway project, local, involved, interesting.


David Gregory....you can even put a face to the name......;)
 
@Pookeyhead - I'm looking forward to seeing Tom Wood's North Wales landscape work when it's published. Apparently he moved here with the intention of taking more landscapes again but one thing's for sure - they will be different. I can't wait.
 
@Pookeyhead - I'm looking forward to seeing Tom Wood's North Wales landscape work when it's published. Apparently he moved here with the intention of taking more landscapes again but one thing's for sure - they will be different. I can't wait.
More like 'if' they get published. They were supposed to be published in September. Last year.... :LOL:

Those exhibited at the Mostyn, Llanduddno were not yer Joe Cornish stuff, that's for sure. I enjoyed looking at them though.

FUJI9475.jpg


FUJI9472.jpg
 
More like 'if' they get published. They were supposed to be published in September. Last year.... :LOL:

Those exhibited at the Mostyn, Llanduddno were not yer Joe Cornish stuff, that's for sure. I enjoyed looking at them though.

FUJI9475.jpg


FUJI9472.jpg

Really? I didn't know that. I'm sure he'll gets around to publishing at some point, or I hope so at least.

Did you see his exhibition at Llandudno? I didn't as I only learned about him and his work some time afterwards. I was very disappointed to have missed it.
 
@Pookeyhead - I'm looking forward to seeing Tom Wood's North Wales landscape work when it's published. Apparently he moved here with the intention of taking more landscapes again but one thing's for sure - they will be different. I can't wait.

I'm not sure which landscape work you are referring to but there was an exhibition of his landscapes at Aberystwyth Arts Centre fairly recently which left me non-plussed. I hadn't heard of him before but he gave a talk in which he went right back to his roots as a documentary/portrait photographer. His earlier work deserved all the praise that was bestowed upon it but his landscapes were very much the poor relation. Nevertheless the tastemakers have continued to shower it with compliments. Did someone mention "emperor's new clothes"?

The thing is, just because someone is good at one genre of photography doesn't mean they will be equally successful in another.

Edit: he was still talking about getting them published - some German publisher or other, I think.......
 
Last edited:
Did you see his exhibition at Llandudno? I didn't as I only learned about him and his work some time afterwards. I was very disappointed to have missed it.

I did and should have taken more shots of the show. Unlike Jerry I think his landscapes, not all, are good. Although they're not all easily classifiable as landscapes. If you approach them as pictures without considering them as belonging to a genre I think they make more sense.

The three volume publication is still in the pipeline with Steidl.
 
The thing is, just because someone is good at one genre of photography doesn't mean they will be equally successful in another.

Doesn't that take us full circle in this thread, a reportage photographer playing at landscapes and thinks he knows it all ;)
 
I'm not sure which landscape work you are referring to but there was an exhibition of his landscapes at Aberystwyth Arts Centre fairly recently which left me non-plussed. I hadn't heard of him before but he gave a talk in which he went right back to his roots as a documentary/portrait photographer. His earlier work deserved all the praise that was bestowed upon it but his landscapes were very much the poor relation. Nevertheless the tastemakers have continued to shower it with compliments. Did someone mention "emperor's new clothes"?

The thing is, just because someone is good at one genre of photography doesn't mean they will be equally successful in another.

Edit: he was still talking about getting them published - some German publisher or other, I think.......

Yes, I'm sure they won't be to everyone's taste. Which landscapes was he exhibiting at Aberystwyth, do you know when and where they were taken?
 
Doesn't that take us full circle in this thread, a reportage photographer playing at landscapes and thinks he knows it all ;)
An arrogant attitude! And I don't suppose Tom thinks that he 'knows it all' - he's too intelligent and grounded.

Why 'playing' at landscapes? Explain yourself.
 
Last edited:
I'm not sure which landscape work you are referring to but there was an exhibition of his landscapes at Aberystwyth ...
That was the Mostyn show on tour ...
His earlier work deserved all the praise that was bestowed upon it but his landscapes were very much the poor relation. Nevertheless the tastemakers have continued to shower it with compliments. Did someone mention "emperor's new clothes"?
Someone else who doesn't 'get it' ...
Edit: he was still talking about getting them published - some German publisher or other, I think.......
Gerhard Steidl. Been on Steidl's website for months and months as 'not yet published'.
 
An arrogant attitude! And I don't suppose Tom thinks that he 'knows it all' - he's too intelligent and grounded.

Why 'playing' at landscapes? Explain yourself.

Well having spent a whole weekend exhibiting in the same room gave me plenty of time to form an opinion.
 
Doesn't that take us full circle in this thread, a reportage photographer playing at landscapes and thinks he knows it all ;)

Nearly said the same myself......

That's not a put-down, by the way. I could see why his documentary work was so highly praised. But the landscapes.....oooer! If anything he might have benefitted from someone telling him, er, actually Tom, these aren't that good...... although it is a matter of opinion, of course.

After donkeys years doing landscapes I wouldn't expect to be able to jump into portraiture and expect the results to be immediately worth exhibiting. It just doesn't work like that.

From the looks of it, there was a lot more work shown at Mostyn than Aberystwyth.
 
Last edited:
I believe that they were representative. There was quite a prolific range of subject matter. He used a variety of cameras including mf pano. I hope that you can't fault his technique even if you can't imbibe his vision ...
 
Last edited:
@Pookeyhead - I'm looking forward to seeing Tom Wood's North Wales landscape work when it's published. Apparently he moved here with the intention of taking more landscapes again but one thing's for sure - they will be different. I can't wait.

I like Tom Wood's stuff... as you say.. it's got a definite flavour and feel to it. It's so very difficult to develop anything unique in landscape.. its reassuring, and quite pleasing when it's done well. I'd love to see it, but North wales is one of those places that's not far in a straight line, but a pain in the ass to drive to.
 
David Gregory....you can even put a face to the name......;)

I knew I'd regret that. It's OK... I'm disguise now. I have a beard. Like Clark Kent removing his glasses... no one will ever recognise me :)

On a more serious note, I've also lost 2 stone in weight... unasked for, and unwelcome I might add.
 
Last edited:
You're inescapably right, David, that there's a popular concentration / obsession with surface rather than meaning. But aesthetics are also a part of the craft of image-making that can have emotional* / intellectual repercussions for the viewer, so don't dismiss them altogether.


I'm not, nor have I ever done so. When the two come together that's when sparks can really fly. However, having surface without meaning is almost always an empty, unsatisfying result, but having meaning without surface often isn't. It's not a balanced equation.


Sorry for the string of replies... the quote thing is doing its "I hate Firefox" thing again today.
 
I'm not, nor have I ever done so. When the two come together that's when sparks can really fly. However, having surface without meaning is almost always an empty, unsatisfying result, but having meaning without surface often isn't. It's not a balanced equation.
.

I don't entirely disagree -though i'd say that sometimes (though definitely not always) the surface can itself be the meaning -for example a beautiful view of a landscape might have interest in itself and evoke the feeling that such places should be protected (which was the message of Cornish's first major commission - "In search of neptune " for the National Trust. That book also has greater meaning now when you view it against a situation in which some of those beautiful views are gone for ever

(btw the quote thing also hates Chrome today - I suspect there is a glitch in the matrix)
 
I don't entirely disagree -though i'd say that sometimes (though definitely not always) the surface can itself be the meaning

I agree. It can. But it's not any kind of useful precedent because such demonstrable exceptions... are... well... exceptions :)
 
Removed
 
Last edited:
I am obviously not allowed a opinion unless I'm willing to be insulted ?
 
Last edited:
Pleased to hear it.

Anyway, not wanting to dwell on health matters, if you do find yourself in North Wales with an hour to spare one day, give me a shout. (y)


I'll do just that :)
 
Well I understand sarcasm or do I ?
I am obviously not allowed a opinion ?


No... you're just not very good at writing sarcasm then :)
 
A warning has been given for this post
No... you're just not very good at writing sarcasm then :)
MOD EDIT : Personal Attack removed.
BEST OF HEALTH AND ALL THE VERY BEST FOR THE NEW YEAR HOPE IT BRINGS ALL YOU DESERVE
 
Back
Top