Just had Professional Photographs Taken, ADVICE DESPERATELY NEEDED!!

[Phil Young]

As we don't know, this is complete supposition.

Hence "I would bet"

You cannot blame the photographer from the info we have received to date.

Did I place blame on anyone? It certainly wasn't the photographer, it would be the studio sales team if anything.[/QUOTE]

Disgruntled customers are always completely honest are they not?

Not always, as in this case - we (as humans) interpret situations not as they are but as we perceive them to be. This means that the situation could be 100% as black and white as the customer has put it to us or perhaps he is the type of person to only see what he believes is true and disregard the rest. Similar to your reply to my post - you didn't really see what I wrote but replied to it with what you perceived was the truth.

You should also be blaming the OP for not giving full info as he seems to have left the thread.

I'm not blaming anyone for anything (hence "technically nobody is wrong") - it would be a sales tactic, no blame necessary.

 

[tiler65]

Hence "I would bet"


Did I place blame on anyone? It certainly wasn't the photographer, it would be the studio sales team if anything.

Some studios operate on a one man band basis..................we can't all be corporate moguls.

 

[joescrivens]

and I heard that some studios even operate a one woman band basis!! who'd have thunk it!

 

[Phil Young]

Some studios operate on a one man band basis..................we can't all be corporate moguls.

Yes, and in this case they would normally have to posses the same sales skills (not exclusive to the tactics I presented) to survive.

 

[TG.]

I don't think you will find anyone who will be willing to copy that 10x8 to the size you want it unless you can show them you own the copywrite.

Your quite wrong, you will find plenty who will, mainstream supermarkets for a start, and just to add before i get slated i am not saying it's right, a lot of places will just ask for a letter to say the person wanting the prints, has permission from the photographer, which anyone can knock up themselves making a letter head in PowerPoint, I've seen it done, i actually sold a CD of images to a client, so they could go and get printed at a well known supermarket, the supermarket told them they needed permission in letter form from me before printing, which i then provided, i gave them a legit letter with my email address and phone number on, did anyone call me or email me, to see if it was legit, did they hell, the person could have just knocked it up themselves on their PC. i don't quite know who is right or wrong in this thread, but i do agree photographers are going to have to adjust, whether that's their prices or services will be up to them, hell when people can go out and buy a digital slr for a couple of hundred quid, and get half decent photos, that's all that a lot of folk want, they couldn't care less if you've invested £50 or £5000 in your kit.

 

[ZoneV]

There was actually. He stated the point of the shoot was a 40X30 canvas. He said he had a price of £150. It's reasonable therefore to assume that he asked for the price of a 40X30.

You'd think so, but I wouldn't be so sure!

He says in the OP that the canvas was the main purpose of the shoot but doesn't say he asked for a quote for a canvas print.

It sounds like he did but people often word things to sound in their favour. We simply don't know.

 

[joescrivens]

and sadly I feel this will always be a mystery since the OP indicates he is unlikely to return

Thanks for the info. One final question then

where is columbo when you need him?

 

[Laudrup]

Quotes for what though?

For a 40x30. Unless he thought £150 was such good value for an 8x10 he bought vouchers for it.

 

[ZoneV]

I can't help but feel that if this was a straightforward con, I.e. the OP was initially quoted £150 for a 40x30 which later jumped to £400 (or whatever) after the shoot, the first post would be a lot more straightforward than it is.

 

[Johnd2000]

Read the whole of my post, then the statement you quoted will make sense.

The maths don't.

 

[tiler65]

The maths don't.

read above

 

[DT01]

I can't help but feel that if this was a straightforward con, I.e. the OP was initially quoted £150 for a 40x30 which later jumped to £400 (or whatever) after the shoot, the first post would be a lot more straightforward than it is.

Seriously?? Why would a studio owner do that? It's probably the easiest and quickest way to lose the client!

The points on the gaps in the communication are very valid and Phil's 'supposition' here, is probably close to the mark

OP: asks about prices for canvases.

Sales person: Tries to get them in without giving prices.

OP: Ballpark figure?

Sales person: Gives the cheapest canvas price in order not to scare them off.

Different price presenter at point of sale: presents canvas sizes that were not spoke of before.

For me it just looks like an age old sales trick. Technically nobody is in the wrong but I suspect the sales people were not as good as they should be or there was no communication between the two employees and conversations.

This exchange arises because, almost without exception, clients, or potential clients have only the vaguest idea of what they want. The want 'some lovely pictures'...can you give me a price for that?! Or the want 'a nice big canvas'....how much is one of those?! Narrowing down the process of what the client wants, usually takes place after they have seen the images (seeing as they couldn't hope to tell you which ones they love before they have seen them!) Then, they start asking about size and this often comes over as, 'so how big is a 20x16?' or 'what size is that one?' (pointing to the 40x30) Then, they start thinking about how much they can spend or how much they do or don't want to spend.

If a client called and said, 'I've got a big space in my room that will take a 40x30 inch frame, how much are your 40x30 frames?' it would be very easy to give a straight answer which, if anything, would only vary downwards from the initial figure given as I find a bit of discount is far more conducive to clinching a sale than ramping the price up! The thing is, they never ask such specific questions because mostly they don't know exactly what they want.

 

[ZoneV]

Seriously?? Why would a studio owner do that? It's probably the easiest and quickest way to lose the client!

Quite, and I don't think that is what happened for the reasons I've given.

I think what happened is the customer went in blind, had the shoot, fancied a big canvas and got stung by the reality. He then started to consider cheaper ways of producing what he wants.

It's only a guess of course but all things considered, that's where my money would go if I were a betting man.

 

[DT01]

Quite, and I don't think that is what happened for the reasons I've given.

I think what happened is the customer went in blind, had the shoot, fancied a big canvas and got stung by the reality. He then started to consider cheaper ways of producing what he wants.

It's only a guess of course but all things considered, that's where my money would go if I were a betting man.

Agreed!

 

[awphot]

I'm prepared for that as folk will try to justify extortionate pricing but I believe in fairness and that price is far from fair.

A canvas would cost the maker what... £20-30?? Then the time it takes to print and put together the canvas, an hour tops.

Let's say we'd be happy to work for £30 per hour, that's a near £400 net profit.

Ok so they are a business and theY have rates etc to pay...so what? It's still a fairly cheap product to buy to the company and they would wack at least 400% on top of their cost price. That's crazy.

I understand prices are going into the thousands of % but then a 10"x12" doesn't require a loan to buy for some...

hahahahaha

I guess you don't own any "white goods" then if you don't like "unfair" pricing.
How much do you think the parts and labour cost on the i-phone or the 1000 quid tv or the 600 quid laptop etc etc etc.

Or you can start comparing the price of a cup of coffee in Starbucks or a pound of spuds in tesco etc etc.

You most certainly would not appear to be running a "proper" high st business so I won't say any more.

 

[AndyB1976]

Hey guys,

I'm hoping someone can please spare a minute to help me without something important. I treated my girlfriend to professional photos of her and I yesterday at a high street photographer/studio...

Pictures all look great and then it came to the convo about pricing...! All 8-10" prints are £20 (Absolutely fine!) and then when it came to the 40x30" canvass that we want (the main reason for the shoot) he said it would be approx in the region of £350-420! I've subsequently searched online and seen you can buy prints on this size canvass at several places for between £50-80.

Can someone please help me to understand what, if anything, I am missing here... because there is an incredibly large difference in price and I cannot afford to pay up to £400 for it. My initial thoughts are buying it in 10x8" and seeing if I can then take that in to somebody for them to copy to a 40x30" canvass for me instead?

I don't know what to expect by way of replies, as this is a desperate attempt for advice and didn't know where to ask? ANY advice would be REALLY helpful (as it's for my girlfriends bday present)!

Thanks!

Yeah I did get quotes over the phone, and he gave me the impression of a ball-park figure approx £150. Therefore I purchased a £150 voucher once I had that initial conversation, and now it seems that when I go back the prices have upped (as he knows I need to use my voucher and is taking liberties!)

I don't understand how this would contravene studio copyright as technically I am purchasing a picture from them. All i'd be requiring is for someone to make it in to a bigger size for me...? Would no places out there be able to do this???

I'm not seeing where the customer has been 'done-over' here or conned into some upselling scam.

What I am missing? A 350-420 ballpark figure that comes in at 400?

 

[Laudrup]

Quite, and I don't think that is what happened for the reasons I've given.

I think what happened is the customer went in blind, had the shoot, fancied a big canvas and got stung by the reality. He then started to consider cheaper ways of producing what he wants.

It's only a guess of course but all things considered, that's where my money would go if I were a betting man.

Yeah I did get quotes over the phone, and he gave me the impression of a ball-park figure approx £150. Therefore I purchased a £150 voucher once I had that initial conversation, and now it seems that when I go back the prices have upped (as he knows I need to use my voucher and is taking liberties!)

How can that be going in blind?

 

[PsiFox]

Exactly Andy, nothing there suggests the 40x30 was discussed prior to the shoot. it only came up in the sales conversation at the viewing.

The second quote seems to me to imply the average spend and would probably buy a few nice prints.

 

[awphot]

Is anyone defending the photographer giving a ball park figure which is a third of the price he ultimately intends to charge? Because this is what is at issue, here.

In deference to the OP, this isn't about pro vs amateur tog pricing, it's about "bait and switch" sales practices, which are against the 2008 Consumer Protection from Unfair Trading Regulations.

That all depends on what questions were asked by the customer in the first place.
Q. what is a "ball park" figure for 3 of x and 1 of y (x and y NOT being large canvases)
A. approx 150-200

Q. what would a canvas in x dimensions cost.
A. oh, about 150

Q. What would prints cost
A. Well most customers spend about 150-200 for a selection of prints.

Only one of those answers would be "misleading" or wrong and that is where they specifically asked the cost of a specifically sized canvas.

 

[ZoneV]

How can that be going in blind?

He didn't get any specific quotes. From info in this thread, can you tell me what specific quotes he obtained? Not what it sounds like he might have obtained, but what he actually asked for?

In the initial conversation the photographer probably gave him his clients typical/average spends following a shoot to give some idea of cost (i.e. the £150 "quote"), as you might do with a client who doesn't really know what prints they want from a shoot.

The bottom line is, from the information he has posted, the OP didn't ask for a specific quote for a specific product. If he did then the answer is simple - he should head straight to his local Trading Standards Dept.

Honestly, though, read the first post again. Does that sound like someone who's been conned, or someone who wants a big canvas done cheap? Honestly? (He doesn't even mention the £150 "false" quote until the next post, after I advised him to get quotes in future. If I had been conned, the first thing I'd mention is the "false" quote, and the difference between it and the real cost, wouldn't you?)

Here is the OP:

Hey guys,

I'm hoping someone can please spare a minute to help me without something important. I treated my girlfriend to professional photos of her and I yesterday at a high street photographer/studio...

Pictures all look great and then it came to the convo about pricing...! All 8-10" prints are £20 (Absolutely fine!) and then when it came to the 40x30" canvass that we want (the main reason for the shoot) he said it would be approx in the region of £350-420! I've subsequently searched online and seen you can buy prints on this size canvass at several places for between £50-80.

Can someone please help me to understand what, if anything, I am missing here... because there is an incredibly large difference in price and I cannot afford to pay up to £400 for it. My initial thoughts are buying it in 10x8" and seeing if I can then take that in to somebody for them to copy to a 40x30" canvass for me instead?

I don't know what to expect by way of replies, as this is a desperate attempt for advice and didn't know where to ask? ANY advice would be REALLY helpful (as it's for my girlfriends bday present)!

Thanks!

 

[woof woof]

I'm not seeing where the customer has been 'done-over' here or conned into some upselling scam.

What I am missing? A 350-420 ballpark figure that comes in at 400?

Yeah I did get quotes over the phone, and he gave me the impression of a ball-park figure approx £150. Therefore I purchased a £150 voucher once I had that initial conversation, and now it seems that when I go back the prices have upped (as he knows I need to use my voucher and is taking liberties!)

From the outside looking in it seems to me that the customers gripe is that he feels that he got the impression that the price would be "ball park" £150 and it ended up being much higher. Surely part of the sales process should be ensuring that the customer is given accurate information - and understands what's being offered and its price.

The customers issue here seems to be the pricing and I'm pretty sure that if the OP had felt fully informed from the outset he wouldn't have gone forward or would have done so just going for the smaller prints. So, to me it seems like the pricing wasn't clear enough at the outset.

 

[Nod]

3 sides to every story - in this case, the OP's, the studio's and the truth and the only one we're likely to hear is the OP's. It's quite possible that the OP asked for a vague idea as to the cost of a 30x40 canvas and didn't specify the units - he wouldn't be the first to do so (anyone remember the Stonehenge scenario in Spinal Tap?) and he won't be the last.

I'm not going to get into the pricing structure that thinks such a mark-up is fair apart from to say that prices should be displayed prominently at the PoS and easily accessible on the studio's website IMO.

Faked up letterheads are generally easy to spot - at least when done on inkjets; a wet finger will smudge the print while "proper" printed letterheads won't.

 

[awphot]

At the end of the day here - The op did not like the price for the canvas and came on here - a photography forum - to find out how they could get a basic print scanned and done as a large canvas.
In other words asking how he can break the copyright law and save himself money and effectively con the photographer.

That to me is what should be discussed, not the pricing or the costs of running a business.

 

[AndyB1976]

Exactly Andy, nothing there suggests the 40x30 was discussed prior to the shoot. it only came up in the sales conversation at the viewing.

The second quote seems to me to imply the average spend and would probably buy a few nice prints.

Thats how I read it too.

Customer gets a price specifically for what he wants (Shop gives ballpark of £350 to £420)

Customer observes random canvas prices of £80 from different sources.

Customer buys a £150 voucher.

Shop appears to quote £400 (although it seems the customer has actually estimated it but lets assume its ballpark regardless)

Customer suggests unfair practice and is trapped with a £150 voucher.


Next time I go out for a posh sirloin steak, I'll suggest I can get just as much beef from a Tesco Value Meal......oh wait!!

 

[AndyB1976]

From the outside looking in it seems to me that the customers gripe is that he feels that he got the impression that the price would be "ball park" £150 and it ended up being much higher. Surely part of the sales process should be ensuring that the customer is given accurate information - and understands what's being offered and its price.

The customers issue here seems to be the pricing and I'm pretty sure that if the OP had felt fully informed from the outset he wouldn't have gone forward or would have done so just going for the smaller prints. So, to me it seems like the pricing wasn't clear enough at the outset.

First paragraph is the ballpark for the Canvas which is 350-420.

The £150 voucher has confused the initial quote (estimate, ballpark, entire thread as I view it)

 

[ZoneV]

First paragraph is the ballpark for the Canvas which is 350-420.

The £150 voucher has confused the initial quote (estimate, ballpark, entire thread as I view it)

The £150 "quote" was given before the shoot (over the phone) hence the purchase of a £150 voucher, although we don't know specifically what this quote was for.

The £350-£420 quote specifically for the canvas was given after the shoot.

The interpretation of the initial "quote" is the issue: Did it specifically include a 40x30 canvas or not?

I very much doubt it, for reasons explained in my last few posts.

 

[woof woof]

First paragraph is the ballpark for the Canvas which is 350-420.

The £150 voucher has confused the initial quote (estimate, ballpark, entire thread as I view it)

Your explanation is a little different to the impression I formed from reading the posts. Regardless of what you or I think the customer seemed to have formed an initial impression of what the price would be and was then surprised by the final price, that seems clear enough. That says to me that either the customer wasn't listening or didn't ask the right questions or the supplier wasn't clear enough or didn't give full enough info.

As an ex of mine was faced with a similar situation in which she was faced with a much bigger bill than she was initially lead to believe would be the case cynical little me thinks that some professionals are a little too keen to get the customer in and lead them towards higher priced items than provide full info up front and see them walk away.

 

[Laudrup]

The £150 "quote" was given before the shoot (over the phone) hence the purchase of a £150 voucher, although we don't know specifically what this quote was for.

The £350-£420 quote specifically for the canvas was given after the shoot.

The interpretation of the initial "quote" is the issue: Did it specifically include a 40x30 canvas or not?

I very much doubt it, for reasons explained in my last few posts.

If the whole reason for the shoot was the 40x30 then it would be reasonable to assume that the quote asked for and received was for the 40x30.

 

[ZoneV]

If the whole reason for the shoot was the 40x30 then it would be reasonable to assume that the quote asked for and received was for the 40x30.

I disagree - assumption is the mother of all, umm, "flip-ups" - but if that is the case then he should get in touch with his local Trading Standards Dept.

It doesn't explain why he didn't mention being "misquoted" in the first post though, just "the canvas was dearer than I can get online!". Bit odd, don't you think?

 

[fracster]

At the end of the day here - The op did not like the price for the canvas and came on here - a photography forum - to find out how they could get a basic print scanned and done as a large canvas.
In other words asking how he can break the copyright law and save himself money and effectively con the photographer.



That to me is what should be discussed, not the pricing or the costs of running a business.

Fully agree.

Everyone is making guesses and surmising about the pricing,sales and the overall deal between the two. The main concern is that the OP asked how to get a big canvas done cheaply after having only bought a small print. We all know it can be done but that does not make it right.

 

[tiler65]

Fully agree.

Everyone is making guesses and surmising about the pricing,sales and the overall deal between the two. The main concern is that the OP asked how to get a big canvas done cheaply after having only bought a small print. We all know it can be done but that does not make it right.

Ahem....everyone?

 

[fracster]

Ahem....everyone?

ok.....most, Tom.

 

[PsiFox]

I'm not making any guesses or assumptions. I wasn't there. I'm just attempting to point out that we only have heard from one side with one interpretation.

It isn't the only one available.

 

[ZoneV]

Nothing wrong with pointing out the fog in a story. Foggy stories are fun.

 

[Ulfric M Douglas]

... I COULD charge a lot more...but this would go against my belief in fairness. .

I'm in the same boat, I have a nagging reticence to charge more, even in this world where it seems everyone else is squeezing for all they can get.

I consider my attitude a disability.

 

[simon ess]

I'm in the same boat, I have a nagging reticence to charge more, even in this world where it seems everyone else is squeezing for all they can get.

I consider my attitude a disability.

This would be my problem too. It's one of the reasons I'm not in business.

Most of my family are or have been successful business people.

They certainly regard it as serious disability.

 

[petersmart]

About 15 years ago a friend of mine had a 40x30 canvas made of his daughter which cost (excluding a photoshoot) £150.

The picture was excellent and he was very pleased with it.

Bearing in mind that DSCL Labs charge £112 for a 40x30 canvas from your OWN prints then the cost doesn't seem too high really.

.

 

[Daryl]

Just pay it or go home and cry.

Please close this thread as it is offensive that a member should mention the utter tosh about price.

It is time that regulation was enforced and cheapo part timers are taught to stick to what they know best, because it aint running a business!!!!!

And for those that cry no way! or 'it will never work' i think it will as the Germans can do it and all the togs that get shafted by cheapos report you.... Yep it can work.

Cheek that this guy could even suggest such a thing.


Qualifications and a licence to trade... have waht togs need to get a trade licence or stick to day job.

so bored of these them and us Threads and folk saying adapt...Adapt to what cheapo sad folk who everything for nowt!!!!


P.S: I read first page only as this P****ed me off.....

 

[tiler65]

 

[Daryl]

Walking Dead Brilliant!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Enough said.