Lightroom 7 - "will appear later this year".

mickledore said:
I'm missing something here. Why is everyone so hung up on cloud storage? You pass your photos over to a company that you have no relationship with and no control over and for a paltry few £££ per month expect that they will always have your best interests at heart. Once in their domain your shots can finish up God knows where and as it will be well hidden in some long and rambling terms and conditions there is nowt you can do about it.
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You'd be very foolish to have your photos stored solely on one cloud based system. Are you really that concerned about copyright or your images being stolen?
 
odd jim said:
But what if you've already paid for the software over and over? Then they disable it.

Damn right I'd be peeved.
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But you haven't paid for the software over and over. Paying for the software is no longer an option, you rent it.

Going back to my Sky analogy, should I demand that I have access to all the repeats. As I have already paid for them when I subscribed.
 
ecoleman said:
But you haven't paid for the software over and over. Paying for the software is no longer an option, you rent it.

Going back to my Sky analogy, should I demand that I have access to all the repeats. As I have already paid for them when I subscribed.
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It's not really the same. The software is what it is, it has a finite value which they have already placed at circa £100 by previously selling it at that price. That's what it's worth. They are now asking a lot, lot more for it over an indefinite period. That is simply unfair to the consumer in the long run.

With your Sky analogy, you are paying to be able to view the programming, programmes you are effectively paying for as you go. This doesn't have a finite value, moreover an ongoing value. This is why subscription for this sort of service works. Sky repeats often appear on other channels for free after a while once aired by sky, as their broadcast licence will be normally for a first run.

A far better analogy would be lease hire on a car purchase where you pay the car off or exchange for a new one. You wouldn't carry on paying the monthly rate for the car to the dealer after you've paid it's full RRP would you?

I will always argue something of a finite, definitive value becomes unfair when you have paid more and more than the product is worth, especially as you could always historically buy it outright and use for however long you want. We all know why this has changed - they will make a lot more money from end users, pure and simple. It also sets a dangerous president, will this now happen with OS software, gaming etc etc?

What exactly are you paying for once you've covered the cost of the product other than updates (which were free before)?

I honestly don't know why people are defending this strategy, like I said, my copy of LR would have cost me over £600 for £110 worth of product had I been on the current sub rate?
 
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odd jim said:
It's not really the same. The software is what it is, it has a finite value which they have already placed at circa £100 by previously selling it at that price. That's what it's worth. They are now asking a lot, lot more for it over an indefinite period. That is simply unfair to the consumer in the long run.

With your Sky analogy, you are paying to be able to view the programming, programmes you are effectively paying for as you go. This doesn't have a finite value, moreover an ongoing value. This is why subscription for this sort of service works. Sky repeats often appear on other channels for free after a while once aired by sky, as their broadcast licence will be normally for a first run.

A far better analogy would be lease hire on a car purchase where you pay the car off or exchange for a new one. You wouldn't carry on paying the monthly state for the car to the dealer after you've paid it's full RRP would you?

I will always argue something of a finite, definitive value becomes unfair when you have paid more and more than the product is worth.

What exactly are you paying for once you've covered the cost of the product other than updates (which were free before)?

I honestly don't know why people are defending this strategy, like I said, my copy of LR would have cost me over £600 for £110 worth of product had I been on the current sub rate?
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Certain updates were free (mostly new cameras and bug fixes). Any new features were released in a new version which you had to buy again a year or two down the line.

I'm not defending Adobe and I can see your point to a degree. I think a lot of the reason why software vendors are going down this route is to stamp out piracy which is/was costing them an awful lot of money. My argument is that £10/month for what you get is a small price in comparison to other services we pay for and a very small price to pay for anybody doing photography professionally or as a hobby.

Looking at hobbies, there are people that do motorsport (bikes, gocarts or cars). This hobby costs them a fortune in engine rebuilds, tyres etc. You don't hear them complaining about the cost of tyres or oil. They spend the money because they love the hobby/sport. There is a cost to every hobby, even stamp collecting. Yes we have an expensive outlay to buy a camera and a lens (or lenses) but once we've made than investment our hobby is pretty much free. We no longer have to buy film, we no longer have to pay for developing or chemicals for DIY. We no longer have to buy flash bulbs and in fact you don't even need to buy software because there is software available for free or it comes with your camera.

I just fail to see why some people begrudge spending a tenner a month on a hobby they love for a tool that is probably the most important tool in your toolkit.
 
ecoleman said:
My argument is that £10/month for what you get is a small price in comparison to other services we pay for and a very small price to pay for anybody doing photography professionally or as a hobby.
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I think cloud services are great ( I use Apple's). I can access my photos from pretty much any internet device, and crucially they're backed up.
I wonder how many people here who just use their computer's hard drive are backing them up ? If you are backing them up, are you doing it to a remote location ?
 
ecoleman said:
Looking at hobbies, there are people that do motorsport (bikes, gocarts or cars). This hobby costs them a fortune in engine rebuilds, tyres etc. You don't hear them complaining about the cost of tyres or oil. They spend the money because they love the hobby/sport. There is a cost to every hobby, even stamp collecting. Yes we have an expensive outlay to buy a camera and a lens (or lenses) but once we've made than investment our hobby is pretty much free. We no longer have to buy film, we no longer have to pay for developing or chemicals for DIY. We no longer have to buy flash bulbs and in fact you don't even need to buy software because there is software available for free or it comes with your camera.

I just fail to see why some people begrudge spending a tenner a month on a hobby they love for a tool that is probably the most important tool in your toolkit.
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That's a normal business model for those hobbies which people accept, it's when you change the model people get upset. The average life cycle of LR is roughly 2 years, you used to pay £100 for a product that will be upto date for 2 years and then buy the next one or stick with what you have and not pay. Now you will have to pay £10 a month for it which would work out to £240 over that 2 years, more than double so you can see why people are annoyed and see it as greedy.

Also you mention other subscriptions like Spotify and Netflix, I pay for those but they are for the family so can shared and enjoyed. LR would be different as it would be just for me.
 
I haven’t read all the posts but when I get my £3.5k D850 with £2.5k 70-200 and £1.8k 24-70I am not going to pay £10 per month to process the images.
Even a Fuji XT-2 body costs £1.6k these days.
With camera and lens prices going the way they are I suppose it was inevitable software would follow suit.
 
tijuana taxi said:
If anyone wants the well hidden LR6 standalone, full licence or upgrade from previous versions its here
https://commerce.adobe.com/anyware/checkout/?clientId=creative&countryCode=GB&languageCode=en&marketSegment=COM&items[0][offerId]=1E7F5C93BDA382CB9A0FBE80615EB304&items[0][quantity]=1&returnUrl=undefined&promoid=5S7K88VB&mv=other&landscape=prod
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Thanks Rich. I gave up trying to find it and found a disc instead. That way I always have control of the software.
 
Willo said:
That's a normal business model for those hobbies which people accept, it's when you change the model people get upset. The average life cycle of LR is roughly 2 years, you used to pay £100 for a product that will be upto date for 2 years and then buy the next one or stick with what you have and not pay. Now you will have to pay £10 a month for it which would work out to £240 over that 2 years, more than double so you can see why people are annoyed and see it as greedy.

Also you mention other subscriptions like Spotify and Netflix, I pay for those but they are for the family so can shared and enjoyed. LR would be different as it would be just for me.
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Then you are going to have to learn to accept this this is going to be the NORMAL business model going forward. Suck it up or download Gimp.
 
tijuana taxi said:
If anyone wants the well hidden LR6 standalone, full licence or upgrade from previous versions its here
https://commerce.adobe.com/anyware/checkout/?clientId=creative&countryCode=GB&languageCode=en&marketSegment=COM&items[0][offerId]=1E7F5C93BDA382CB9A0FBE80615EB304&items[0][quantity]=1&returnUrl=undefined&promoid=5S7K88VB&mv=other&landscape=prod
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Alternatively you click on Adobe.com and click Search. Type Lightroom 6 and the second result is "Download and install Lightroom 6 (Single App license)". Adobe hides it so well!!
 
Well, I've just installed LR Classic and it offers great performance improvements, many functional improvements (which I've yet to explore), the latest version of Photoshop (which I admit I only scratch the surface of but it's nice to have) and I'm still only paying less than a tenner a month. I don't use foreign offline storage (AKA Cloud) but I have a good backup strategy (I was formerly an IT Security manager for a major local authority). I know that I will get automatic updates to the programmes without paying any more. OK, they may put the price up from time to time, but that's life. I've tried a lot of the alternatives but I've been using LR since it was RawShooter Pro so I've evolved with it. I'm a happy bunny.
 
Eloise said:
Alternatively you click on Adobe.com and click Search. Type Lightroom 6 and the second result is "Download and install Lightroom 6 (Single App license)". Adobe hides it so well!!
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Few steps on from that and if you search on here you will find others have had trouble finding it

Cheers for the s***ty sarcasm too, just trying to help others out and doesn't make you look clever, quite the opposite
 
ecoleman said:
Then you are going to have to learn to accept this this is going to be the NORMAL business model going forward. Suck it up or download Gimp.
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The thing is this isn't normal. Not for consumer software. The software is a product, not a service. They bundle a 'service' into it with the BS storage allowances.
 
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yzfmike said:
Bye bye Adobe.

You're trying to screw me.

I'm moving to DXO and Affinity.
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I did this recently and feels good.
Idont need LR but understand that for a lot of customers its very good.
I went onto their forums.thanked them for the use in recent years and said fairwell.
I wont miss it.
 
odd jim said:
The thing is this isn't normal. Not for consumer software. The software is a product, not a service. They bundle a 'service' into it with the BS storage allowances.
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So you've not heard of Office 365?
 
odd jim said:
I have Office and only paid once for it.
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Yes but what Elliot said was "Then you are going to have to learn to accept this this is going to be the NORMAL business model going forward."

His point is that while only a few software companies have gone this route, its likely to (possibly inevitably) become more widespread going forward. Office 365 is another example.
 
Eloise said:
Yes but what Elliot said was "Then you are going to have to learn to accept this this is going to be the NORMAL business model going forward."

His point is that while only a few software companies have gone this route, its likely to (possibly inevitably) become more widespread going forward. Office 365 is another example.
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If this is the case, they'll have to justify the "subscription" over and above simple updates, otherwise consumers will forever be tied to unfair subscription "services" that are simply perpetual software rental. Otherwise it would be a licence to print money for any software company.

I thought the subscription Office was optional? I only bought mine a few months ago and had the choice of a subscription or one off.
 
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Orangecroc said:
Even Travelodge ditched microsoft office when they did this and moved to google drive and the incorporated software. All of which is free to use for non-commercial use.
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Erm ... free if you sell your soul to Google. Anyway ... Google G Suite for business costs you monthly ... so whats your point?

(Sorry rather heading off topic!)
 
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odd jim said:
If this is the case, they'll have to justify the "subscription" over and above simple updates, otherwise consumers will forever be tied to unfair subscription "services" that are simply perpetual software rental. Otherwise it would be a licence to print money for any software company.

I thought the subscription Office was optional? I only bought mine a few months ago and had the choice of a subscription or one off.
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Are you a Mac user. As far as I am aware you can still buy a perpetual office licence for Macs (I have one) but Windows users only have the subscription option. I may be mistaken.
 
ecoleman said:
Are you a Mac user. As far as I am aware you can still buy a perpetual office licence for Macs (I have one) but Windows users only have the subscription option. I may be mistaken.
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No Windows.
 
ecoleman said:
and the majority of accounting software these days.
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It's existed with commercial software for years, and probably quite rightly as they are using the software effectively to help operate business and make money (hense business licence use)

But not really for consumers until Adobe decided to stop the option and force perpetual software rental.

If this becomes the norm, imagine the massive scale of licences we will all have to pay and maintain and keep track of?
 
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odd jim said:
The thing is this isn't normal. Not for consumer software. The software is a product, not a service. They bundle a 'service' into it with the BS storage allowances.
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other than games, there's basically no consumer software out there any more?

And Microsoft Office, for example, has gone largely to a subscription model...
 
In fairness (and as someone who has just bowed out of CC) Adobe had to do something like this for its products ... standalone PS & LR were amongst the most pirated software available, not to mention the selling of 'sub-accounts' from a business licence.
 
itsdavedotnet said:
other than games, there's basically no consumer software out there any more?

And Microsoft Office, for example, has gone largely to a subscription model...
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I don't agree there's hardly any consumer software anymore. Walk into PC world and the shelves are full of consumer packages.
 
gramps said:
In fairness (and as someone who has just bowed out of CC) Adobe had to do something like this for its products ... standalone PS & LR were amongst the most pirated software available, not to mention the selling of 'sub-accounts' from a business licence.
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You see, this I can understand. However, that's a failing with Adobe as software piracy can now be quite cleverly protected against. You only have to look at current gen Console gaming software to see how this can be implemented. Personally, I've never come across a pirated Xbox One title...
 
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odd jim said:
I don't agree there's hardly any consumer software anymore. Walk into PC world and the shelves are full of consumer packages.
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MS Office isn’t consumer software... MS Works was consumer software.
odd jim said:
You see, this I can understand. However, that's a failing with Adobe as software piracy can now be quite cleverly protected against. You only have to look at current gen Console gaming software to see how this can be implemented. Personally, I've never come across a pirated Xbox One title...
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Console gaming anti-piracy is easy because the console manufacturers have strict control over the hardware as well as strict DRM. In the old days piracy was often restricted using hardware dongles ... but over time even these were hacked and became ineffective.
 
Eloise said:
MS Office isn’t consumer software... MS Works was consumer software.

Console gaming anti-piracy is easy because the console manufacturers have strict control over the hardware as well as strict DRM. In the old days piracy was often restricted using hardware dongles ... but over time even these were hacked and became ineffective.
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True, but the same could be said for current PC gaming, where the level of hardware control is non existent but they seem to have beaten piracy.
 
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odd jim said:
It's existed with commercial software for years, and probably quite rightly as they are using the software effectively to help operate business and make money (hense business licence use)

But not really for consumers until Adobe decided to stop the option and force perpetual software rental.

If this becomes the norm, imagine the massive scale of licences we will all have to pay and maintain and keep track of?
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So you don’t think PS and LR are commercial products? I’d say they are aimed squarely as the commercial market. If you want consumer then PSE is available
 
ecoleman said:
So you don’t think PS and LR are commercial products? I’d say they are aimed squarely as the commercial market. If you want consumer then PSE is available
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Personally I always thought of LR as a consumer product (£100 for LR vs £800-1k for PS with very different functionality), and PS as the commercial side. Elements was the consumer arm of PS, not LR.
 
odd jim said:
True, but the same could be said for current PC gaming, where the level of hardware control is non existent but they seem to have beaten piracy.
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By using user accounts, DRM and by stopping online gaming of pirated copies. If you want pirated copies though... they are out there.
 
ecoleman said:
I cancelled my Sky subscription last year. I'm so p***ed off that I can't still can't watch sky movies or the programs I recorded previously with their box. This is outrageous!!
Profiteering I tell you!!!!!

Lightroom still allows you to use all of the cataloging features, even the quick edit tools so you don't suddenly loose your edits or years of cataloging. I think that's pretty decent of them.
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You're using Sky to access content created by *other* people. So switching it off or changing to something like Netflix is just a switch of service to another means of accessing content created by other people.

With the likes of LR or MS Office you are using software to manage *your own content*. Which is not the same thing.
 
Software that happens to have a rental licence but still runs on the desktop is no more secure than software with a perpetual licence. Adobe already had DRM, including a requirement for on-line registration, with CS. Yes, it was cracked, but so was the current CC scheme. A quick Google search brings up detailed instructions on exactly how to pirate CC.
 
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