Multiple shootings in Paris

gramps said:
If these fanatics didn't have religion to use as an excuse there would be something else.
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Fair point well presented
 
mark richards said:
how can you take out the rot ,when you don't know where it is...that's what i am worried about..
Like what's, already been said.you cannot tar them all with the same brush..
But there must be people out there, that know where these monsters are being recruited ..
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Exactly.
Long term. ..long haul....education.
 
viv1969 said:
Exactly.
Long term. ..long haul....education.
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because it is time to stop this political "correctness" b******t. We are not allowed to say anything against another religion or culture, even if it is funny or in a light context as an innocent joke. Probably Monty Python would be illegal today. We are afraid to touch these radicals overtaking our schools in Birmingham and London. Yet when someone wears a cross or talks about christianity can be told of for being intolerant to some pigs or be even fired from work. f*****g madness and here are the results. Enjoy.
 
daugirdas said:
because it is time to stop this political "correctness" b******t. We are not allowed to say anything against another religion or culture, even if it is funny or in a light context as an innocent joke. Probably Monty Python would be illegal today. We are afraid to touch these radicals overtaking our schools in Birmingham and London. Yet when someone wears a cross or talks about christianity can be told of for being intolerant to some pigs or be even fired from work. f*****g madness and here are the results. Enjoy.
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100% agree.
 
daugirdas said:
because it is time to stop this political "correctness" b******t. We are not allowed to say anything against another religion or culture, even if it is funny or in a light context as an innocent joke. Probably Monty Python would be illegal today. We are afraid to touch these radicals overtaking our schools in Birmingham and London. Yet when someone wears a cross or talks about christianity can be told of for being intolerant to some pigs or be even fired from work. f*****g madness and here are the results. Enjoy.
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Whoa...hold on to your breeches there.
Did I suggest otherwise?
 
The problem the western world has is we think all other humans live and think as we do.

Once upon a time we charged our way across the world encouraging others to follow our beliefs, ours is the one true god etc.

We are now ever so sorry for being nasty and are bending over backwards in case someone somewhere might be offended or someone thinks someone might be offended.

The people behind these attacks are very intelligent, using our fear of offending anyone and using religious fanatics who believe that the next life will be better than this one and are willing to die for that belief.

There is no way we can beat them by being the nice civilised, not wishing to offend anyone country we have become.
 
Sky News is reporting possible surrounding of the terrorists in the Rhiemes area of France ... unconfirmed.
 
The world sadly changed on 11/09/01 when fear and paranoia entered Western societies. Unfortunately they are precisely the same devices that western politicians have used over the years to exploit the populace and the fear has grown. There has always been 'fear'. When I was very young it was bombing by the IRA, then it was fear of a nuclear strike in the 80's, that disappeared to be replaced fairly shortly after by 9/11 and the changes that has wrought on our lives. Mark @cowboy refers to us being a nice civilised country. Yes we are, at home, but the history of Britons abroad is generally quite the opposite and still is, abroad. We remain one of the most belligerent countries on the planet, generally packing a punch far in excess of the countries size.

You cannot beat terrorism of this sort, particularly when the perpetrators have been born and educated within the countries they are attacking. It's insidious and it's worrying when fear becomes the guiding factor. The staff of Charlie Hebdo refused to bow to that fear and produce their (highly) satirical material. They paid the ultimate price but they stood for freedom, of the press and from fear itself. I guess to us in the UK it would be as though Ian Hislop and his staff had been slain today, it's a very sad day.
 
Bernie174 said:
Yes, and claiming that the information comes from Face ache. Hardly a reliable source of anything at all.
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ONe has to hope that is merely part of the jigsaw and not the only source of info they are using. I imagine the people of Reims are feeling a little vulnerable right now.
 
ONe has to hope that is merely part of the jigsaw and not the only source of info they are using.
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It was the source they quoted, as for hope and sky news....?

I think anyone is France could be feeling vulnerable at the moment, there's at least 2 AK47 type weapons in the hands of people who clearly know how to use them. If 2 have got into the country, how many more and how many more people who aren't enthusiastic amateurs?
 
Ricardodaforce said:
One of the most interesting comments in the thread. In many ways we reap what we sow, and I think America has been conducting an insidious war on Islam for many, many years now. And its allies have been sucked into it. The result has been scenes of horror in Madrid, London and many other places. Today's events in France have horrified me. What an appalling and senseless slaughter.
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Without sounding childish, didn't the war on islam only start AFTER 9/11?
 
cambsno said:
Without sounding childish, didn't the war on islam only start AFTER 9/11?
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It started in the 90's after the first bombing of the World Trade Center - there were plenty of American operations covert and otherwise against Islamic Terror operations, remember Clinton's Missile Strikes on Terror Training Camps in Africa in 1998.
 
cambsno said:
Without sounding childish, didn't the war on islam only start AFTER 9/11?
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Bush originally blamed Saddam Hussein in the immediate aftermath IIRC. It comes down again to Hermann Goering's advice that our leaders still follow today, bless em

"The people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger. It works the same way in any country". 18/04/1946
 
Its sadly the world we live in these days but we do need to ask ourselves as The West why people hate us soo much.
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Some people dislike the West because they dislike the lifestyle, simply because it doesn't follow the way that they believe all of us should follow. It has nothing to do with East or West, it has nothing to do with Iraq, Afghanistan or Syria. It has nothing to do with bombing Lybia in the 80's nor does it have anything to do shooting down Iranian airliners. It is simply some believe that we should be converted to the ways of Islam, in particular a distorted version of it.

All of the attacks on Christian Countries, to a greater or lessor extent would be happening no matter what.
 
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Which countries are being referred to as Christian countries? I'm sure the Christians in England make up much less than 50% of the population.


Steve.
 
Steve Smith said:
Which countries are being referred to as Christian countries? I'm sure the Christians in England make up much less than 50% of the population.


Steve.
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I'm sure you're correct but according to the 2011 census, nearly 60% of the population of England describe themselves as Christian.
 
Steve Smith said:
Which countries are being referred to as Christian countries? I'm sure the Christians in England make up much less than 50% of the population.


Steve.
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I hope you are very wrong there. European culture, legal system and moral values are all built upon christianity. It will be a cold day in hell when that ceases to be true. There is already a strong support for Sharia law across several parts of this country and God forbid they get the upper hand.
 
It's been a sad and depressing day and before I heard the Paris news I thought that the image I saw in a newspaper of the Egyptian bomb disposal guy approaching a bomb and being blown up and killed was going to be the one that stayed with me for a very long time, and it will but little did I know that that sad episode was going to be a footnote.

Many of us know what it's like to say goodbye to a loved one and not see them alive in this world again and I do hope that for some who have lost loved ones today there will be a touch of pride in the fact that their loved one died whilst attempting to save the lives of others.

I've also been thinking about an ex of mine. She's a beautiful and intelligent lady and very much in demand. She travels the world in a high powered job and she's very good at it. Quite the modern lady. One day she got very upset at the latest outrage the Palestinians suffered and angrily and tearfully stated that she would willingly be a suicide bomber. Until the world can understand and begin to address the thought processes that get us here there'll be many more sad and depressing days.
 
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gadgeteer said:
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I think this sums up the west's policy on the middle east. Might go a long way to explain why we're hated.
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I don't support the view that everything would have been peaceful and light if we hadn't invaded and / or deposed this or that despot. People have been killing people in various places for ever, before "we" got there and after "we" left.

An analogy...

You're walking down the road and you glance into the living room of a house you are passing and you see a man attacking a woman and her children. You call the police and they wade in and drag the screaming would be murderer away. The next day the evil swines brother and all his cousins arrive and kick the womans door in and continue the attack on her and her children.

So, was it right to call the police? Are the police to blame because they carted off a scumbag only to clear the way for all his evil family to turn up and run amok? After all, yesterday she and her children were only being murdered by one man but today there's 20 in there having a go at her and her children.

The alternative to intervening is not intervening and just sitting and weeping at the news reports. Or we could just pass on by and say it's nothing to do with us.

I suppose there is another possible alternative, to intervene and stay there and do the job right and only leave if and when it's safe to do so but public opinion in the democracies is fickle and when the body bags start coming home and the financial cost rises it's time to cut and run and leave it to the crazies.
 
Cartus said:
I'm sure you're correct but according to the 2011 census, nearly 60% of the population of England describe themselves as Christian.
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People tend to do that, even when they are not.

daugirdas said:
European culture, legal system and moral values are all built upon christianity.
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Please list some laws which are based on Christianity.


Steve.
 
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Je suis Charlie
 
Steve Smith said:
Please list some laws which are based on Christianity.
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I think "Love your neighbour as yourself" would be a good starting point :)

Looks like two of the terrorists have been identified overnight and photos released (2 Algerian brothers) and a third has surrendered to the police.
 
Steve Smith said:
It's great advice to live your life by and needs no allegiance to any faith - but it's not a law!


Steve.
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It's the Christian law of love.
Read the context and you will see Jesus, (in answering the question, "Which is the greatest Commandment?", or Law), referred to the Mosaic Law Code 'Thou should not kill', 'Thou should not steal' etc, (which are laws) as being superseded by the overriding Christian law of love.
 
Please list some laws which are based on Christianity.
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1. Theft - From thou shall not steal
2. Murder. From Thou Shall not kill
3. Perjury - from Not be false witness against your neighbor

Common Law offences now abolished
Adultery - from thou shall not commit adultery
Blasphemy - Not taking the lords name in vain/not make idols.

Legislation now repealed in part
Sunday trading laws - Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy

So 7 of the 10 commandments are or were criminal offences in UK law.

Much of Common Law, ie unwritten law that has developed by convention or tradition is based on Christianity ideals.
 
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Steve Smith said:
But not an actual law.
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All laws are based on love for neighbour ... if you show your neighbour love you don't kill him, steal from him, defraud him etc, etc.
The difference is that following the Christian law of love, removes the need for any other laws ... but it's a digression from the purpose of this thread ... with yet another shooting in Paris this morning.
 
Bernie174 said:
Much of Common Law, ie unwritten law that has developed by convention or tradition is based on Christianity ideals.
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Most likely based on ideals from before the time Christianity arrived here.
Things like not stealing and murdering are quite basic and didn't need Christianity to tell us they were wrong.


Steve.
 
Yes.....I particularly love this peaceful, loving little nugget from Ex 22:20: Whoever sacrifices to any god other than the lord must be destroyed.
 
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