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hjwatso1 said:
Before a match/shoot, what and how much research do you do?

At the moment I look at the current stories happening at the clubs involved, new manager, new players, so and so back from injury etc. From that I work out a list of key shots I want to take.

Also, do you have a list of key shots you want from each match you shoot. Almost like a check list of must haves to tell the stories? If you do, does this change from match to match.

Sorry, asking a lot and it may seem stupid.
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You answered almost everything in your question - new players, stories etc

The only thing that changes in my job is the reasons why I attend games.

When when doing a World Cup Final all that matters is capturing the moment the winning goal is scored.

In a qualification game, the needs are different in getting a set of stunning, clean, sellable stock pictures to sell as a set to publishers doing pre-world cup publications. When going to South Africa a year before the world cup you are almost a travel photographer, taking pictures of things that you think are interesting but also what editors want and what will sell.

Being prepared is vitally important - however equally is being flexible as you never know what may happen. A stunning sunset may appear or the linesman breaking his leg. Just be awake and never assume anything!
 
Ok, have you ever lost motivation to go out and shoot and if you have, what did you do to overcome it? (Asides from it being your job etc)
 
soccersnapper said:
But when people start playing sports photographers from this forum and get passes to Tottenham for their debut whilst others stop others from working at places like Everton for not understanding protcol, its time to hit back and let people know what they are up against.
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I honestly understand that entirely and can see why you and other football pros would resent it. Tell people what you think, but do it in a calm and reasoned way - some of them at least might actually listen. Losing your rag and calling people names just puts backs up and results in mod intervention.
 
soccersnapper said:
Hence bad manners on this occasion are warranted if people are to be serious.
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Bad manners are not warranted, end of. You've been granted leave to post this but don't take advantage of that goodwill.
 
cw318is said:
Great question Helen, hope you don't mind but to add to that I see phases in the papers of action shots then the next week it seems to be mostly teleportraits. Is it just a case of whatever sells or do you try and shoot/promote these?

And thankyou for answering my earlier questions.
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Everything is down to the picture editor. I know when the Observer Pic Ed is on holiday as it looks terrible!

Its totally random depending on deadline, stories, shape, paying for pictures, what is going on in the world, a whole feast of things.

Its a game a scruples when you realise you are trying to tell a picture buyer NOT to buy a photo for £10,000! You have to be submissive to sales and just accept what is sold to make a living.

Kippax is a genius for this
 
dod said:
Bad manners are not warranted, end of. You've been granted leave to post this but don't take advantage of that goodwill.
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define bad manners then

what is the difference between some insinuating that i have spat my dummy out which is seemingly OK, yet its oh so terribly wrong and insulting to actually call someone a baby

Arent insinuations the same, if not worse than insults? :thinking:
 
soccersnapper said:
define bad manners then

what is the difference between some insinuating that i have spat my dummy out which is seemingly OK, yet its oh so terribly wrong and insulting to actually call someone a baby

Arent insinuations the same, if not worse than insults? :thinking:
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Word of advice, dont push it, move on.
 
Gary Coyle said:
Word of advice, dont push it, move on.
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Especially as you have made it blindingly obvious who you are.

I seriously appreciate the amount of insight that you are giving, but the constant ego is a touch wearing.
 
Byker28i said:
Zidanes headbut in the 2006 final? I don't remember the winning goal in the papers much
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and who got it then? It happened right in front of me. I never saw it.

236 of the supposed finest global photographers in the world around the field
another 70+ in the tribune

the only person to get it was the French man doing a documentary on Zidane, and he 'missed it'

Just like Cantona's kick - 35_ photographers, all facing the same stand, only 3 got it
 
Headbut is being a bit generous to him isn't it?

It was more like a chest tap followed by some way OTT acting! :D
 
soccersnapper said:
its like going to normal work, some days you just dont want to.

Nothing special happens to overcome it, you just have to get up and go
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Some days?? Most days but that's just my fun 9-5 job :LOL:

Rovers_Andy said:
:bang: there's always one
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He does have a point though, for me it was more memorable as up to that point I had a lot of respect for "Zizu"
 
soccersnapper said:
define bad manners then

what is the difference between some insinuating that i have spat my dummy out which is seemingly OK, yet its oh so terribly wrong and insulting to actually call someone a baby

Arent insinuations the same, if not worse than insults? :thinking:
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we have defined bad manners, as Ct has said, a calm, reasoned manner is the way forward. calling someone an idiot/ranting isnt. As a privately owned forum, we decide what is and isnt acceptable, sometimes we make a judgement call thats wrong. Generally, as a rule of thumb, anything that would annoy me or any of the mods would come under insulting.

Keep in mind that the mod team consist of A ginger, a scotsman, a fat northerner, a fat bald southern frenchman, someone called Brian, a couple of grumpy people and 2 wimmin...so we can take a bit before getting annoyed
 
soccersnapper said:
Define ego

I think you just dont like someone who questions, challenges and makes people feel possibly uncomfortable
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that sort of person is fine, its the ones who come across as looking down on others
 
matty said:
Keep in mind that the mod team consist of A ginger, a scotsman, a fat northerner, a fat bald southern frenchman, someone called Brian, a couple of grumpy people and 2 wimmin...so we can take a bit before getting annoyed
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:LOL: :LOL: Matty, you just described the family members who sat round my table on Xmas day for dinner
 
matty said:
Keep in mind that the mod team consist of A ginger, a scotsman, a fat northerner, a fat bald southern frenchman, someone called Brian, a couple of grumpy people and 2 wimmin...so we can take a bit before getting annoyed
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Didnt realise it was that bad here:)
 
soccersnapper said:
Define ego

I think you just dont like someone who questions, challenges and makes people feel possibly uncomfortable
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That's a fair question.

I have absolutely no problem with people either challenging the status quo, asking probing questions or making the complacent feel twitchy. I do however question your approach.

I thought that your call on the blog post was spot on- it was out of order from someone portending to be a journalist. In my own opinion though, the way you went about criticising the poster was wrong and was designed to provoke contention. Simply stating the facts and making him look like an idiot would have been far more effective than saying it outright; there are times when less is more.

You like to hand out criticism, but you don't like it when you are questioned or held to account for your comments. Remember that you have no status on here as such, and for all anyone knows you could be a massive bluffer just claiming to be a working sports journalist and professional- it wouldn't be the first time that something similar has happened.

I've been very fortunate in my life having known a couple of sports journalists who really were the best in the world in their chosen field, and nicer guys than you could hope to meet. Tough yes, but they had manners and knew how to get the best from people.

Anyway, apologies for detracting from the thread.
 
Talk sports was bobbing along albiet a bit slowly.. all the main stuff has been asked and talked about.. It was just ...well just there.. and i am glad it is..

Along comes soccersnapper with some very strong views and an equally strong way of putting them accross.. I ahve stayed out of it as good friends of mine where falling out and people seemed to be taking sides...

However.. One thing can't be denied.. its woken the place up.. its the most looked at and most contributed thread in here for a good while and has got everyone buzzing...

For the record I agree with the bigger picture bigger story bigger point that soccersnapper is making but disagree wiht some smaller ones that i will come back to in another post... I also like the way he has got a reaction.. But I also agree with others that its perhaps OTT... Thus in the spirit of give and take i would ask that we draw the line at calling people idiots... Its easy enough to do without actually saying it :)

Just my thoughts as a contributor.. I aint running the shop and as usual most will ignore it.. but thats my thoughts... stick around soccersnapper if you can ...
 
soccersnapper said:
and who got it then? It happened right in front of me. I never saw it.

236 of the supposed finest global photographers in the world around the field
another 70+ in the tribune

the only person to get it was the French man doing a documentary on Zidane, and he 'missed it'
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I believe John Macdougall (AFP or Getty Images) is the one most often shown.
 
DemiLion said:
Headbut is being a bit generous to him isn't it?

It was more like a chest tap followed by some way OTT acting! :D
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It seems to be the way of the premiership these days though. Torres was throwing himself everywhere last weekend, players falling over at the slightest touch (or not) cough arsenal cough.

matty said:
A ginger, a scotsman, a fat northerner, a fat bald southern frenchman, someone called Brian, a couple of grumpy people and 2 wimmin...
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walk into a bar ?
 
You know what, I've visited this site a few times today and this thread kept popping up on the "New Posts" so I decided to look at it.

The OP seems to be an experienced pro sports tog, but of all people, I think he is missing the point.

MOST people come on here to learn. If they like sports photography they tend to rub the virtual shoulders of the pros on here looking for hints, tips and feedback on their work.

So what if they want to have a go at making a living out of it ? If they're not up to the standard they'll crash & burn. After almost 30 years in sales, I see guys come into my office professing to be the next big thing and most of them don't last 6 months with me. You need to be able to walk the walk, not just give the talk. If you are so good and are prepared to give others help, stop bleating about it and do it.

There are a number of people on here I really look up to, and when they tell me that I've made a good shot I feel on top of the world. When they tell me what I could have done better I take it on board and try better next time. However, when I have made stupid mistakes and I've been told (politely) that I have, I take it as part of the learning curve.

As CT said earlier, no matter how you dress your original post up, you've thrown your toys out of the pram because you've been reprimanded. You're telling people to toughen up, but your sulking in the corner yourself.

Honestly, I think it's time you either put up or shut up. Stay here and help those that would value your knowledge & experience, or close the door on your way out. At the moment you're hanging on like one of those wannabe "mates" that everybody dislikes but doesn't want to tell them to leave them alone.

Mods, apologies if I've overstepped the mark.

Steve
 
Gary Coyle said:
Man this is a very long 48 hours, ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ
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Have you got nothing better to do with this lovely winter day other than make irrelevant comments? Almost all of the comments I see you post Gary seem as if they written just to wind people up and provoke a response
 
I don't know why people are commenting 'I have no interest in sports but you are out of order' and other stuff either trying to provoke arguments. Here is a guy who has achieved something and is willing to give something back and help others. How rare is that? Let the people who are interested in learning gain some of his knowledge instead of just having your say on what has already happened. This forum could be really good. Like I said, how many people who have achieved something that others aspire to are willing to give something back? I hope one day I achieve the things I want to achieve and am in a position where I can actually help someone who wants to learn.
 
Right i've not been on here much lately due to a several reasons so I may have missed something. I for one do not know of the blog you talk about SoccerSnapper.

What I will say is that I have read 75% of your post and am fascinated, by your thoughts and wealth of knowledge of the industry, and firmly believe you should have a place on this forum.

Surely forums are all about differences of opinion, its what makes the world go round. As for the advice you've given in your post I couldn't agree more with it.

I know you didn't want anyone posting about what you wrote, but I felt the need to in some way back you up.

I for one would appreciate your personal email addy so that I can tap into your wealth of knowledge. I've started out this season shooting my local team and would love your thoughts on the standard of work i've produced.

It's on my Flickr at http://www.flickr.com/photos/philcarverphotography/

Kind Regards

Phil

ps. why is Jamesb84 suspended :thinking: , top bloke he was (y)
 
QUESTION I dont know if you agree so this will be my question.. I believe I have the eye.. I also believe it's not something that can be taught... like snooker.. I know the rules of the game.. i still never won a match.. Do you believe it can be taught? that you can teach someone to ...see a picture?
 
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redmonkee said:
ps. why is Jamesb84 suspended :thinking: , top bloke he was (y)
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I looks as though there was a spat on the lens thread this morning, and I'd agree about James, his posts have usually been great - even if the advice varies with SS over when to use AV or manual!!
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I personally would not have an issue if Soccersnapper was allowed to stay on the forum. I have posted a couple of times in this thread already, mainly cos I was shooting a church with a tripod at night the other day, so kinda half felt that comment was aimed at me (although I know it wasn;t really).

There are a few people who are baiting a bit on here, and 'Snapper is being very frank and honest with his answers, although a bit blunt. Part of this is directly coming from the attitude of others, who are also strong minded people.

I am enjoying the thread, and enjoying the serious posts on here, but do feel that there is a nasty undertone in parts.

Can we all take a step back and count to ten before we hit the post button and treat everyone with a little more respect. If it si not adding to the thread, then don't hit hit the button! Regardless of whom has said what to whom when, this is a serious thread with potential, and we all deserve to be treated politely.

Lets all Chillax a little and it will roll on a lot better.
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by soccersnapper View Post
I dispair when I see people checking the back of their cameras and looking at LCD screens.

The last england game i went to most of them were doing it yes it was that boring i ended up watching them more. The past few man utd games i have been to i have noticed them in front of me checking after each shot.
Even on sky sports you can see it.

Anyway i think that from reading some of the rants i mean posts that in this day and age people do get offended too easily sometimes and also sometimes people probably say the wrong thing or it may come across the wrong way.

but as previously said the world is full of different characters that whats make the world tick.

I do admire the sports photographers sitting there in all sorts of crap weather lugging all that kit about midweek games late nights.
 
My reply took ages.. and there is a question in there... its marked.. Question :)
 
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