New Toys - Godox AD600 has arrived

Messages
193
Edit My Images
No
#81
Last time I checked, many trigger systems are cross compatible. They ether connect to speed lights via a hotshoe type connection, or to heads via pc sync socket. There are no problems swapping triggers between Canon, Bowens and a couple of Canon compatible speed lights I own. Do it all the time.
 
Messages
1,865
Name
Michael A. Sewell
Edit My Images
No
#82
Last time I checked, many trigger systems are cross compatible. They ether connect to speed lights via a hotshoe type connection, or to heads via pc sync socket. There are no problems swapping triggers between Canon, Bowens and a couple of Canon compatible speed lights I own. Do it all the time.
I believe @mike weeks and @HoppyUK were referring to transmitters that allow the adjustment of power output, mode, modelling bulb, and other functions remotely, as opposed to the dumb triggers/receivers which could be utilised in the manner you describe.
 
OP
OP
M
Messages
4,765
Name
mike
Edit My Images
No
#83
I believe @mike weeks and @HoppyUK were referring to transmitters that allow the adjustment of power output, mode, modelling bulb, and other functions remotely, as opposed to the dumb triggers/receivers which could be utilised in the manner you describe.
Yes an intelligent trigger system, a bit like this answer.

Mike
 
Messages
22,917
Name
Richard
Edit My Images
No
#84
I believe @mike weeks and @HoppyUK were referring to transmitters that allow the adjustment of power output, mode, modelling bulb, and other functions remotely, as opposed to the dumb triggers/receivers which could be utilised in the manner you describe.
Yes, not forgetting HSS and auto-TTL functions not available with conventional flash units. And it's not just having one system instead of several, it's having only one control interface to familiarise with. I don't think I'm alone in finding most remote flash control systems less than intuitive, especially in the heat of the moment. I wonder, how many of us have switched to manual, not because it was the best mode, but because we'd actually forgotten how to operate the auto flash compensation function in groups B and C, and it was easier to just walk over and turn the things down?!
 
Messages
22,917
Name
Richard
Edit My Images
No
#87
Indeed, Richard, the remote systems have come an awfully long way from those basic units. Even the much celebrated original Pocket Wizard had the most basic of features and have long since been superseded.
Quite. And it's actually a serious point IMO. If we saw someone shooting with Canon, Nikon and Pentax cameras we'd think they were bonkers. But that's exactly what we have to do with different flash systems, and they're becoming increasingly complex.
 
Messages
1,865
Name
Michael A. Sewell
Edit My Images
No
#88
Quite. And it's actually a serious point IMO. If we saw someone shooting with Canon, Nikon and Pentax cameras we'd think they were bonkers. But that's exactly what we have to do with different flash systems, and they're becoming increasingly complex.
I suffer that exact problem at the moment.
I use both Nikon and Olympus. I have anything I might possibly need right at my fingertips for the Nikon. The Olympus, on the other hand, is a bit of a migraine and requires some very creative workarounds, to say the least!
 
Messages
1,865
Name
Michael A. Sewell
Edit My Images
No
#90
And whilst the Cactus may be a nod in the right direction for those of us who are multi-brand shooters, a similarly developed transmitter system which would work across multiple lighting brands would be an incredible tool in any photographer's arsenal who relied on lighting.
 
OP
OP
M
Messages
4,765
Name
mike
Edit My Images
No
#91
OP
OP
M
Messages
4,765
Name
mike
Edit My Images
No
#92
Last time I checked, many trigger systems are cross compatible. They ether connect to speed lights via a hotshoe type connection, or to heads via pc sync socket. There are no problems swapping triggers between Canon, Bowens and a couple of Canon compatible speed lights I own. Do it all the time.
As has been said, it is not an integrated system

Mike
 
Messages
1,865
Name
Michael A. Sewell
Edit My Images
No
#93
Manual only unfortunately which for many might be a stopper, although most of mine is manual it is nice to have that bit extra in the pocket for when needed.

Mike
TTL is one of the features I hope they are looking at. Very seldom used in my own work, but a good "get out of jail" card when needed. I'd also like to think they are looking at all the other current goodies like high-speed synch, FP, Hs, hss and anything else you can think of that just makes our jobs that bit easier.
 
Messages
193
Edit My Images
No
#94
And seriously, when are you going to need TTL when photographing subjects that would require 2400w ? (when are you going to need TTL at all - but that is a different story). If you are photographing something large enough to require that sort of power, I would hope that you would have figured out that you would need to apply more creative judgement than that. I looked at tranciever systems a while back with a view to shooting small interiors of the type that can be lit with speed lights. Binned the idea in the end, 1, because you need more human input and judgement (the technology, if anything, gets in the way of this), 2, most of the systems available can't control enough channels to be useful anyway.
 
Messages
1,865
Name
Michael A. Sewell
Edit My Images
No
#95
And seriously, when are you going to need TTL when photographing subjects that would require 2400w ? (when are you going to need TTL at all - but that is a different story). If you are photographing something large enough to require that sort of power, I would hope that you would have figured out that you would need to apply more creative judgement than that. I looked at tranciever systems a while back with a view to shooting small interiors of the type that can be lit with speed lights. Binned the idea in the end, 1, because you need more human input and judgement (the technology, if anything, gets in the way of this), 2, most of the systems available can't control enough channels to be useful anyway.
TTL is a single option of a vast array of advanced features that are available to intelligent triggers, and TTL is often part of the process behind some of those triggers such as using higher shutter speeds etc.
 
Messages
10,692
Name
Garry Edwards
Edit My Images
No
#96
Yes, not forgetting HSS and auto-TTL functions not available with conventional flash units. And it's not just having one system instead of several, it's having only one control interface to familiarise with. I don't think I'm alone in finding most remote flash control systems less than intuitive, especially in the heat of the moment. I wonder, how many of us have switched to manual, not because it was the best mode, but because we'd actually forgotten how to operate the auto flash compensation function in groups B and C, and it was easier to just walk over and turn the things down?!
I agree. Quite often, things that are supposed to make our lives easier actually have the opposite effect.

I'm not a luddite, but I do feel that we sometimes rely on technology too much, and all to often we kid ourselves that it can replace care, skill and knowledge too - TTL is a good example of this, it may, very occasionally have its uses but mostly its used as a very poor replacement for actually being a real photographer. Just recognise that it's just a bullet point on an advert, not an actual benefit for most people, most of the time.

And, like so many other things in life, technology can often cause more problems that it solves.
Right now, many cars either don't carry a spare wheel at all or they carry a little toy one - and there is now so much technology on cars that they are far more likely to break down, and if they do break down nobody knows how to fix them, or at least even if they do know, they don't have the tools with them.
But, with cars, we can get round these problems by belonging to a breakdown service, and just about all makes have a very solid infrastructure in place, with main dealers etc to sort problems out.

But we don't have that infrastructure, and don't get that support, with clever flash heads and clever flash triggers. With many of these products, there are no dealers (or none that either know or care about the product) and there's no support when things go wrong, because the manufacturer is 6000 miles away and doesn't care anyway. So, when they go wrong, the only thing to do is to throw them away.

There's another strange phenomenon going on in photography too - and we see it all the time on forums - people who talk themselves into buying gear that they not only don't need, they don't have a use for it either, and they buy it for entirely the wrong reasons. These tend to be the people who rely on useless gadgets the most, and these too are the people who never have a backup plan for when the technology lets them down.

The old Bowens flash heads of the 1980's had a great reputation for reliability, and quite a lot are still in use today. They were to some extent over-engineered back then, but the main reason for their reliability was their simplicity - performance was terrible by today's standards, but because there was almost nothing to go wrong with them, they hardly every went wrong, and if they did go wrong there was (at that time) a manufacturer who could repair them, and a lot of repairers who could also fix them. Don't expect most of the new tech products to still be going in 30+ years, or even in one year. Don't expect to be able to get them fixed when they go wrong, and don't ever forget to take plenty of backups with you, including basic technology such as sync cables are going to be needed one day.
 
Messages
193
Edit My Images
No
#99
TTL to me is actually more of a bragging point than a useful tool. The reality is that 99% of the features that have been brought in in recent years remain turned off, either because they are too complicated to operate in a time efficient way, or because they are too unreliable to work effectively (TTL is especially guilty in this case).

I shoot a lot of small property interiors of the sort of size where speed lights will do the job for the most part. Couple of years back, I investigated the possibility of using tranceivers to remote control the lights and save time. In the end, the project was dismissed as transceivers could not control the numbers of channels necessary, and in reality the lights are so close to the camera position that you might as well just go over and change the settings anyway, no need for the cost or complexity of a transceiver. The process of looking at this made me wonder as to exactly what use such systems would provide. It clearly would be of little value when shooting portaits in most situations, as the lights are right next to you anyway - just reach over change them manually. You might as well save the money. The only situation where there might be some application that I could think of would be using speed lights to shoot someone giving a speech at a podium or similar, however again, with a little forward planning (i.e. thinking things through and setting up the equipment correctly to begin with), again it is essentially unnecessary as I had been doing such projects successfully for years without such things - so why go to the cost now - I'd rather save the money and go on holiday :)
 
Messages
22,917
Name
Richard
Edit My Images
No
TTL to me is actually more of a bragging point than a useful tool. The reality is that 99% of the features that have been brought in in recent years remain turned off, either because they are too complicated to operate in a time efficient way, or because they are too unreliable to work effectively (TTL is especially guilty in this case).

I shoot a lot of small property interiors of the sort of size where speed lights will do the job for the most part. Couple of years back, I investigated the possibility of using tranceivers to remote control the lights and save time. In the end, the project was dismissed as transceivers could not control the numbers of channels necessary, and in reality the lights are so close to the camera position that you might as well just go over and change the settings anyway, no need for the cost or complexity of a transceiver. The process of looking at this made me wonder as to exactly what use such systems would provide. It clearly would be of little value when shooting portaits in most situations, as the lights are right next to you anyway - just reach over change them manually. You might as well save the money. The only situation where there might be some application that I could think of would be using speed lights to shoot someone giving a speech at a podium or similar, however again, with a little forward planning (i.e. thinking things through and setting up the equipment correctly to begin with), again it is essentially unnecessary as I had been doing such projects successfully for years without such things - so why go to the cost now - I'd rather save the money and go on holiday :)
If it moves, auto-TTL exposure control is a Godsend - inverse square law. And auto-TTL can react to distance changes quicker than you can think. If you've ever tried tracking something like a young child running around, you will know useful this can be. Or any situation where distance is variable shot to shot and you want to concentrate on the subject rather than camera/flash settings. So maybe not property interiors ;) (and how many channels/groups do you need for that?!).

With IGBT flash control (that also gives you pulsed high-speed sync, very fast flash durations, and the ability to shoot at fast frame rates) auto-TTL exposure control effectively comes free. It's all done by the camera. You don't have to use any of these things, but a lot of photographers find them invaluable.
 
Messages
1,865
Name
Michael A. Sewell
Edit My Images
No
You must be confusing me with someone else. I don't recollect mentioning needing half the sun's output for a bride. I definitely mentioned weddings in conjunction with TTL though.
And I can certainly think of situations with some of my client's where a very high output would be an advantage.
 
Messages
193
Edit My Images
No
The point of the original thread is whether there is any benefit to the system referred to, above a regular high powered pack system - which I would say no,

however some people seem to think yes as it gives them TTL which will help them with weddings. To me that is missing the point, as this sort of system is too powerful for that sort of work.
 
Messages
22,917
Name
Richard
Edit My Images
No
The point of the original thread is whether there is any benefit to the system referred to, above a regular high powered pack system - which I would say no,

however some people seem to think yes as it gives them TTL which will help them with weddings. To me that is missing the point, as this sort of system is too powerful for that sort of work.
It's you that seems to be missing the point.
 
Messages
1,865
Name
Michael A. Sewell
Edit My Images
No
The point of the original thread is whether there is any benefit to the system referred to, above a regular high powered pack system - which I would say no,

however some people seem to think yes as it gives them TTL which will help them with weddings. To me that is missing the point, as this sort of system is too powerful for that sort of work.
I believe the original post was actually an announcement of purchase, with @mike weeks then going on to mention benefits etc as he used it.
Due to the manner in which Mike mentioned his experiences in the thread, I believe the thread covered a number of aspects regarding specification of the head and the radio system associated with it.
I disagree with your comment that it's too powerful for wedding work, as I have occasionally topped out the Atoms and Safaris when shooting the bridal portrait session. So on those occasions, the extra stop offered by these heads would certainly be of benefit.
I also agree with @HoppyUK that you may well have missed the point.
 
OP
OP
M
Messages
4,765
Name
mike
Edit My Images
No
The point of the original thread is whether there is any benefit to the system referred to, above a regular high powered pack system - which I would say no,

however some people seem to think yes as it gives them TTL which will help them with weddings. To me that is missing the point, as this sort of system is too powerful for that sort of work.
You seem to say no to quite a few things, and the original post was not about 2400W TTL flashes, it has developed - perhaps if we had your real name and some evidence of actual work then your opinions may be valued instead of how I read them currently as trolling.

Mike
 
Messages
10,692
Name
Garry Edwards
Edit My Images
No
The point of the original thread is whether there is any benefit to the system referred to, above a regular high powered pack system - which I would say no,

however some people seem to think yes as it gives them TTL which will help them with weddings. To me that is missing the point, as this sort of system is too powerful for that sort of work.
Actually it isn't too powerful for wedding work, although I accept that there are a lot of people who are happy just to add a little bit of fill flash from a hotshoe flashgun.
This type of unit comes into its own when there is a need to take control of the lighing, rather than just to add to whatever light is already there, and it is also needed for fill flash, when photographing a large group.

Whether or not it's rugged enough, or simple enough to use in that situation is another question, but not one that I can personally answer as I don't have one and as I haven't done wedding photography for a very long time - for which I'm grateful:)
 
Messages
272
Edit My Images
Yes
Mike Weeks your post has been very helpful!...I know it's a few moths old but I have just come across it now as I'm on the market for a portable light. The AD600 seems to tick all the boxes for me.
I assume best place to order it here in the UK is Photomart?

Also, any recommendations for stands for this unit, please?
 

cowboy

Guy Fawkes
Messages
3,151
Name
Mark
Edit My Images
No
Mike Weeks your post has been very helpful!...I know it's a few moths old but I have just come across it now as I'm on the market for a portable light. The AD600 seems to tick all the boxes for me.
I assume best place to order it here in the UK is Photomart?

Also, any recommendations for stands for this unit, please?
Essential Photo do the citi 600 branded version as well
They are doing Black Friday deals on them in the form of a few freebees through the mailing list at the moment it's a free speedlight and trigger.
 
Messages
249
Edit My Images
Yes
What I'm waiting for is a decent flash head with built in wifi that can be controlled through an app, nice simple user interface and life would become very easy! A tablet running the app could even have schematic of the lights position so you don't even have to remember which is head a,b,c etc
 
Messages
272
Edit My Images
Yes
Essential Photo do the citi 600 branded version as well
They are doing Black Friday deals on them in the form of a few freebees through the mailing list at the moment it's a free speedlight and trigger.
Thanks, I'll suscribe to their list and see if I get the email deal.
 
OP
OP
M
Messages
4,765
Name
mike
Edit My Images
No
Mike Weeks your post has been very helpful!...I know it's a few moths old but I have just come across it now as I'm on the market for a portable light. The AD600 seems to tick all the boxes for me.
I assume best place to order it here in the UK is Photomart?

Also, any recommendations for stands for this unit, please?
The remote heads mean you can use lighter weight stands however a big factor is the modifier you put on a head, use something like a 150cm Octa and it has a big overhang and a big sail effect in which case I tend to use larger, heavier duty stands, my favourite is http://shop.photomart.co.uk/lightin...-stands/ilux-js-3000-air-cushioned-light.html if on a budget and C stands such as http://shop.photomart.co.uk/lightin...ional-light-c-stand-328cm-and-120cm-boom.html if you want a really professional piece of gear.

Mike
 
Messages
272
Edit My Images
Yes
Many thanks for your advice Mike and Phil!

I'm quite new to studio photography and I'm still finding my way around all the equipment I need for my home studio.

I think I might hold on for a while and get by with just one AD600 and reflectors. Then when I have a chance add an AD360II so everything it's built int and runs from the X1 transmitter and no worries of different receivers.

Would a TT685 do a good job for illuminating portrait backgrounds in the meantime?
 
Last edited:
Top