Nikon D5

Seems almost everyone reviewing the camera (including Ross) talks about the ISO noise performance as if it's "better."
IMO/E, it is not. What is "better" is that there's actually some benefit to using the higher ISO's (as opposed to just pushing in post). And IMO/E, at lower ISO's where it is "worse" it's not a big deal as long as the scene is not too demanding and you get the exposure fairly close.

AFAIK, Bill Claff is the only one who measures/quantifies what you gain in the dark areas as you trade off with higher ISO's.
http://photonstophotos.net/Charts/PDR_Shadow.htm#Nikon D4,Nikon D5,Nikon D7200,Nikon D810

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After a few weeks w/ it, my current position on the D5 is don't buy it...
Unless, you are constantly up against the limits (high ISO/AF speed/speed overall) and the money is justifiable to you.

Otherwise, in the Nikon line:
For performance overall, D4/s.
For general wide range lighting conditions D4/s/Df/750
For maximum *potential* IQ in more ideal/controlled situations, D810
For wildlife/sports where reach is a problem and cropping almost always occurs, D500

There's nothing I *dislike* about the D5, but IMO it is a bit of an oddity with notable tradeoffs for the improvements (where they exist). And you are paying a lot for them...
 
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This is an interesting review of the D5... particularly the Noise/DR comparison between raw/jpeg files. It might partially explain why I am finding it difficult to get better results from a raw file than the jpegs deliver automatically (w/ good exposure). It's also worth noting that they have an additional option for jpegs to use "optimized compression" (which I'm using) as opposed to the normal/previous small file compression.

Some may find my concern with jpegs odd, but ~80% of the time the raw processing I do is just to bring the file up to jpeg output levels. And this camera seems to have better processing/conversion than previous (or there's "less available" to mess with in post, or both). *If* this camera can produce jpegs equal/better than I can more than 90% of the time I *might* start just recording jpegs w/ it (or at least use the jpegs by default). For the professional who shoots for wire, this difference could be a huge bonus... Actually, for anyone getting paid processing time is money... it could/should matter to all.

** I'm not confident enough at this point to say that the camera *does* produce better jpeg results... I may/probably still have some workflow/settings to sort.
 
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In an attempt to quantify the AF improvement I did a test against my D810. My D4 is out for repair, but if there is a notable difference between the D810/D4 I would be hard pressed to say (in good light where I tend to use the D810 anyway).

The test was to see if the camera would lock onto a chain link fence while panning. This is a trick I've used for motorsports thru the fence, if you start panning *before* activating the AF the fence does not register and the camera's AF will pick up the subject instead. But at slower panning speeds, or if you start the AF before the panning motion, the fence becomes a problem as the camera may very well try to focus on it instead.

The fence was rusty/dark and pretty high contrast w/ the BG... the BG was pretty low contrast and lighter. The lens used was the 70-200/2.8 VRII at 200/2.8. My distance from the fence was ~ 15ft and I panned across about 30ft of it. To give them the best chance of picking up the fence first I started each pass with the lens set at minimum focus distance. Both cameras were set as similarly as I could. The D810 was set to 9d AF-C with tracking set to norm (middle). The D5 was set to 25pt (the same 9pt selectable area) AF-C with tracking set to norm, but I did have the other (new) option set to "erratic."

After multiple passes with both cameras my impression is that I can pan approximately twice as fast with the D5 and it would still attempt to lock onto the fence. Additionally, there were about 2x more images in focus/close to focus... but there is a huge difference in frame rate which would account for some of that. That's not to say the D5 was anywhere near perfect at that panning speed, I would say less than 30% had the fence actually in any kind of reasonable focus. But it tried and stayed with the fence. At the same panning speed the D810 basically just racked focus. If I had to guess, I would estimate the panning speed was somewhat equivalent to tracking a car/bike at ~100mph and 30yds (I personally could not "see" the fence thru the viewfinder). For a similar level of performance from the D810 I had to pan ~ 1/2 as fast (and I could see the fence when nearly in focus). And keep in mind, because I was relatively close to the fence panning across about 10yds, not only was the distance to the fence changing but the relative speed of the fence was changing as well.

So, in this limited/unscientific/specific situation/test I would estimate the D5 to be 2x as fast *and* 2x as accurate as the D810 is. IMO that is huge. And I would have to suspect the difference would be at least as great in low light/low contrast situations.
I'm also fairly certain that if I was actually tracking a car/bike through the fence the AF would still pick up the ("stationary") subject instead of the fence (I sure hope so anyway).


One thought... I might have been able to use focus priority to only take images the camera thinks are in focus. I didn't because that setting is basically ignored w/ BBF active. But thinking about it now, I might have been able to make it work and the results might be a bit less subjective.

Edit: I just saw Tony Northrop's review where he tested the D5 as being *more than* 2x as accurate than the D810 (and 7DII).
 
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By the sound of things, the law of diminishing returns has just flat lined.........the cost for very minor improvements makes it an uneconomic prospect in reality. I'm glad I kept my D3 bodies now - they have worked tirelessly for me over the years, and still do a fine job.
 
By the sound of things, the law of diminishing returns has just flat lined.........the cost for very minor improvements makes it an uneconomic prospect in reality.
I think that is very close to true...
My personal opinion/experience thus far is that the AF is a *major* improvement, but it has come with other notable costs.
 
By the sound of things, the law of diminishing returns has just flat lined.........the cost for very minor improvements makes it an uneconomic prospect in reality. I'm glad I kept my D3 bodies now - they have worked tirelessly for me over the years, and still do a fine job.

True to a point, but there are undoubtedly improvements, and even more so depending where you coming from, in my case, D3 and D3s's.

I’m only a few hundred frames into mine, but compared to my D3s the AF is significantly better in lower light, particularly when using the extreme focus points, it doesn’t seem to hunt at all, just snaps on.
When I’m back in good light on the central focus point and shooting sport with the 400mm f2.8, tracking players, the difference was negligible compared to the D3s, but I’ve still to fully customise the D5, and my D3s did take a while to get it as sweet as it is.
The view finder seems a lot brighter too, which I like. The touch screen is nice, (as long as you’ve got spotlessly clean fingers, it soon smudges up!)

I’m still playing, but one difference I did notice straight away was the way the RAW files look in LR compared to D3s RAW’s, much less colour saturation, and lower contrast overall.
 
Regarding the AF improvements...
If you haven't seen notable limitations in your current/previous camera's AF performance, then you're not likely to see a notable improvement... And TBH, most current/previous DSLRs are quite adequate/proficient for most situations.

IMO, the D5 is not a $3k upgrade for most (assuming selling the previous camera)... in fact, I might consider it a downgrade. And I wouldn't honestly say it was a "smart investment" for me. With the D810 I kind of feel like I have two completely bi-polar cameras. Which is fine, because I have them for primarily different purposes. But now it's much more of "a decision" as to which camera I choose, because I feel like "the middle ground" is where my choices are the weakest.
 
Probably a difference in profile/defaults being applied...
Rather than relying on ACR, LR or whatever choosing a preset profile, I have set my own Profile with a Colorchecker Passport for my D500 (and other cameras) when opening RAW files. The D500 files open up very nice even though I have chosen the Flat Picture Control. :)

If you are shooting Jpegs, customise a Picture Control to get closer to the images you want coming out of the camera.

Just my 2p as a non D5 user, but applies to all cameras.
 
Rather than relying on ACR, LR or whatever choosing a preset profile, I have set my own Profile with a Colorchecker Passport for my D500 (and other cameras) when opening RAW files. The D500 files open up very nice even though I have chosen the Flat Picture Control. :)

If you are shooting Jpegs, customise a Picture Control to get closer to the images you want coming out of the camera.

Just my 2p as a non D5 user, but applies to all cameras.
I always set up a default profile for raw files with ISO and camera criteria (in LR). Basically, it opens the raw looking (almost) like a jpeg from the camera would be.

I usually set up the camera so that the jpeg processing is as minimal as possible and looks as much like a raw file as possible... my D810 is set that way. It's useful for getting (somewhat) more accurate histograms/blinkies. But then the jpegs are crap... that's ok for "jpeg backups," but I'm still undecided if I will stay with that workflow/process w/ the D5.
 
Anyone actually got their hands on one yest due to the delays in shipping?
 
Just had a UK Nikon Dealer phone me up asking me if I wanted to get a D5 when they arrive ... maybe demand isn't so high?
 
Just had a UK Nikon Dealer phone me up asking me if I wanted to get a D5 when they arrive ... maybe demand isn't so high?

I'd have thought the opposite is true, as they still haven't fulfilled all the pre-orders yet.

I must say, it's taken me a while to get it set up to give the best results for what I wanted, but the consistency and accuracy of the AF is phenomenal compared to my D3s, and I thought that was pretty damn good too!
 
Just had a UK Nikon Dealer phone me up asking me if I wanted to get a D5 when they arrive ... maybe demand isn't so high?
Lucky you Gramps!!
I emailed WEX on Sunday. This is their reply to me yesterday:

Hi Mark

Our purchasing team are in regular contact with Nikon. The latest information from Nikon is that they simply do not know when stock of with the D5 or D500 will be available. The factory that produces sensors for Nikon was effected by the Earthquake in Japan.

Our understanding is that the factory is now up and running, but as they produce sensors for a number of manufacturers it could be a while before Nikon are able to start providing any information to retailers.

My apologies that I am unable to give more positive news at this time


Martin
Customer Service Team
 
When is it being delivered to you Roger , oh an you just as well order a D500 as well just in case. ;):)
Lucky you Gramps!!
I emailed WEX on Sunday. This is their reply to me yesterday:

Hi Mark

Our purchasing team are in regular contact with Nikon. The latest information from Nikon is that they simply do not know when stock of with the D5 or D500 will be available. The factory that produces sensors for Nikon was effected by the Earthquake in Japan.

Our understanding is that the factory is now up and running, but as they produce sensors for a number of manufacturers it could be a while before Nikon are able to start providing any information to retailers.

My apologies that I am unable to give more positive news at this time


Martin
Customer Service Team

No I'm not buying, not the D5 or the D500 ... I must confess I was very surprised to get the call.
Mind you it's very interesting that there seems to be no supply issues for the grey market with either the D5 or D500!
 
Lucky you Gramps!!
I emailed WEX on Sunday. This is their reply to me yesterday:

Hi Mark

Our purchasing team are in regular contact with Nikon. The latest information from Nikon is that they simply do not know when stock of with the D5 or D500 will be available. The factory that produces sensors for Nikon was effected by the Earthquake in Japan.

Our understanding is that the factory is now up and running, but as they produce sensors for a number of manufacturers it could be a while before Nikon are able to start providing any information to retailers.

My apologies that I am unable to give more positive news at this time


Martin
Customer Service Team
It seems crazy that the D500 and D5 are available in 4-6 days via grey imports but there is no UK stock for either camera. If I were a UK trader I would be spitting blood at Nikon. As if the UK traders do not lose enough business to the grey market!
Has anyone bought a grey?
 
Just had a UK Nikon Dealer phone me up asking me if I wanted to get a D5 when they arrive ... maybe demand isn't so high?

The hint is in the statement. 'When' they arrive. :LOL:

That could be a while.

The D5 is an excellent camera. I am sure there are plenty of buyers out there for them. :)

Kev.
 
I must confess I've slightly lost faith in Nikon, and their poor communications. The story about the sensor factory doesn't quite hold up, seeing as you can buy both versions of the D5 off the shelf from B&H in New York.
 
I'd rather Nikon took more time and care to ensure quality on the production run than rush them through with all the consequent 'issues'... imagine the stink here if that happened!
 
Have you seen the review about 5D? on dpreview. The shutter is like a shooting gun
 
Got my hands on the D5 today; wow oh wow. Will post a more in depth review later with some photos but it really is quite good.

ISO is insane
Touch screen is great
14fps is ludicrous
AF is a joy
 
Taken in my back garden, 10pm at night and at ISO 51200. Amazing.

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mine arrived too
I'm way down the queue James for the D5. I'll have to be patient, although I'd lost my patience waiting for my ticket to return my D750. I emailed Nikon UK yesterday and to their credit, have expedited my D750 repair and have acknowledged the D5 waiting list. They can't just magic the D5 out of their arses so I will wait some more!

Here's their reply if you're all interested:

Dear Mark,

Thank you for your e-mail.

1 - The service centre are currently slightly behind with the batches of repairs but 2.5 months would be more then expected so I have contacted them to check on this and they have confirmed that your label has now been released and it should be with you later today. They offer their apologies for the extended delay.

2 - I am sorry to hear of the delay with receiving your pre ordered D5 and can understand and sympathise with your frustrations. Unfortunately demand is greatly outweighing supply since the D5 release date and while some stock is coming in to the UK on occasion there are a significant amount of pre orders for retailer to accommodate. I will of course forward this feedback on to the relevant departments and apologies for any inconvenience or concern caused by this. I hope your retailer can advise you further about you pre order in the near future.

If you have any other queries for Nikon in the future please do not hesitate to contact us again.

Kind Regards,

J.B. Maher
Advisor
Nikon Customer Support
 
I'm way down the queue James for the D5. I'll have to be patient, although I'd lost my patience waiting for my ticket to return my D750. I emailed Nikon UK yesterday and to their credit, have expedited my D750 repair and have acknowledged the D5 waiting list. They can't just magic the D5 out of their arses so I will wait some more!

Here's their reply if you're all interested:

Dear Mark,

Thank you for your e-mail.

1 - The service centre are currently slightly behind with the batches of repairs but 2.5 months would be more then expected so I have contacted them to check on this and they have confirmed that your label has now been released and it should be with you later today. They offer their apologies for the extended delay.

2 - I am sorry to hear of the delay with receiving your pre ordered D5 and can understand and sympathise with your frustrations. Unfortunately demand is greatly outweighing supply since the D5 release date and while some stock is coming in to the UK on occasion there are a significant amount of pre orders for retailer to accommodate. I will of course forward this feedback on to the relevant departments and apologies for any inconvenience or concern caused by this. I hope your retailer can advise you further about you pre order in the near future.

If you have any other queries for Nikon in the future please do not hesitate to contact us again.

Kind Regards,

J.B. Maher
Advisor
Nikon Customer Support


When did you order yours?
 
Don't get disgruntled by the status i ordered the D500 was told Thursday Lunchtime, that they had no visibility of it, it arrived Saturday Morning.....this was a few weeks ago, got it start of June....ordered beginning of May from Calumet
 
I agree with the communication from Nikon. I suspect they are happy to take and hold the money from distributors for pre-orders but for a tech company, not knowing when stock will be available to a particular continent operations (eg Europe) is a massive flaw in their business which is impacted by customer service quite significantly
 
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