Nikon mirrorless definitely on the way

[Cagey75]

You mean like ibis isn't Sony's problem? You're ranting about ibis.

That last comment... Oh dear.

I'm not ranting whatsoever, I stated a fact, Olympus do IBIS a lot better, then you got all butt hurt and now you're ranting about tiny sensors, go back to sleep would ya

The last comment is fact, it isn't a problem unless you want it to be. You proved you know nothing about M43 already so your rants are now just meaningless waffle, but that's nothing new is it?

 

[twist]

I'm not ranting whatsoever, I stated a fact, Olympus do IBIS a lot better, then you got all butt hurt and now you're ranting about tiny sensors, go back to sleep would ya

The last comment is fact, it isn't a problem unless you want it to be. You proved you know nothing about M43 already so your rants are now just meaningless waffle, but that's nothing new is it?

You keep telling yourself your ibis makes up for the other issues your camera has. m43 ibis wouldnt be as good as it currently is if they made the sensor twice the size. It's why Sony is struggling with it but they have a FF with ibis and canikon don't.

Ibis is as much a problem as a small sensor to some people.

 

[Cagey75]

You keep telling yourself your ibis makes up for the other issues your camera has. m43 ibis wouldnt be as good as it currently is if they made the sensor twice the size. It's why Sony is struggling with it but they have a FF with ibis and canikon don't.

Ibis is as much a problem as a small sensor to some people.

Maybe they should have thought of this and made the body a bit bigger, or stick to lens IS then. Again, it's their problem. I don't care about sensor size, Olympus still do IBIS better, you're arguing against a fact, no matter the reason.

Anyway, I just posted the link out of interest that Olympus have something in the works. I don't even shoot with their cameras, don't own any Olympus lenses currently either, I have no horse in this race, I just find it intriguing.

I could sell my M43 gear tomorrow and get a Sony A7II with some lenses ... IF sensor size mattered to me.

 

[twist]

Maybe they should have thought of this and made the body a bit bigger, or stick to lens IS then. Again, it's their problem. I don't care about sensor size, Olympus still do IBIS better, you're arguing against a fact, no matter the reason.

Anyway, I just posted the link out of interest that Olympus have something in the works. I don't even shoot with their cameras, don't own any Olympus lenses currently either, I have no horse in this race, I just find it intriguing.

I could sell my M43 gear tomorrow and get a Sony A7II with some lenses ... IF sensor size mattered to me.

Why though? Their increase in popularity in more recent times prove that having the best ibis isn't an issue or Olympus would be on top.

If Olympus had better ibis on a Ff model it would be fact. The fact is the Sony sensor is bigger so its much harder to stabilise.

I would love to see a ff sensor Olympus..... or anyone elses. Sony needs some competition.

 

[redhed17]

If IBIS wasn't important, Fuji wouldn't have bothered with the XH1, Sony wouldn't have started to add it to their A7 line after the mk1 - I know my main reason for switching to Panasonic from Fuji was the IBIS, and many others have done the same. The smaller sensor is only relevant regarding high ISO IMO, and I tend not to shoot above 1600 no matter the body. IBIS allows me to keep that down too.

I didn't say that IBIS wasn't important did I! I said that for most people it would be not be a high priority. It was obviously a high priority for you.

..... and the sensor is still twice the size in a similar size camera. Sensor size is also relevant for every sensor attribute. Iso, dynamic range, sharpness, dof.

This is why the sensor size makes a difference. If you never go above 1600 ISO then you will not miss the higher ISO performance. As for Dynamic Range and Sharpness... You are happy with your choices so that doesn't matter.

It's really come of age for video.

For stills it's only a killer feature for a minority. It's really useful for travel and street.

This is Talkphotography not Talkvideo, so when I talk of camera features I am talking about the camera/photography features of gear rather than video, and I agree that for most IBIS isn't a top consideration imho.

It's only a problem to people who decide it is. That tiny sensor produces excellent image quality, I have compared the Nikon D800E directly to the Panasonic G80 and besides massive file size, in good light, there's naff all difference.

In good light a lot of mobile phones can give excellent images too. Pity a lot of people don't only take pics in good light.

There are many decisions to be made when choosing and buying a camera, money, size, weight, lens availability and specific camera features. And all that is in any order. As long as you are happy with what you have, that is all that matters. My Nikon D500 does not have the best crop sensor with the best Dynamic Range or high ISO performance, but the other features more than make up for that.

I'm glad that you mentioned a new Olympus mirrorless camera because it is something to look out for to see what they come up with. Hopefully it is revolutionary to shake things up a bit.

 

[the black fox]

What a load of b*****ks ,I went out last week with a mate I was using my Panasonic g80 and 100-400 lens hand held total cost around 2k my mate had his canon 1DX ,500mm f4 plus 1.4 mkiii tc ,plus gitzo tripod wimberly mount total cost in excess of 12k ,my all up gear weight 1.5 kg his all up weight around 8kg ,we were shooting fast moving sandwich terns in flight ,looking at the finished photos you would be hard pressed to know which was which .
You simply cannot ignore the changes going on ,more and more people especially in the wildlife side of things are moving over to MFT ,this new Olympus could also be next years game changer . .i very nearly went down the road of canon mirrorless M cameras but there native lenses are not good enough and the normal lenses via adaptor to heavy .
For Nikon to enter the market they would have to offer more than canon ,be at the very least equal to Sony,Panasonic ,or Olympus and have a complete range of lenses that work preferably without the weight or price penalty

 

[Raymond Lin]

What a load of b*****ks ,I went out last week with a mate I was using my Panasonic g80 and 100-400 lens hand held total cost around 2k my mate had his canon 1DX ,500mm f4 plus 1.4 mkiii tc ,plus gitzo tripod wimberly mount total cost in excess of 12k ,my all up gear weight 1.5 kg his all up weight around 8kg ,we were shooting fast moving sandwich terns in flight ,looking at the finished photos you would be hard pressed to know which was which .
You simply cannot ignore the changes going on ,more and more people especially in the wildlife side of things are moving over to MFT ,this new Olympus could also be next years game changer . .i very nearly went down the road of canon mirrorless M cameras but there native lenses are not good enough and the normal lenses via adaptor to heavy .
For Nikon to enter the market they would have to offer more than canon ,be at the very least equal to Sony,Panasonic ,or Olympus and have a complete range of lenses that work preferably without the weight or price penalty

It’s so easy to judge base on 1 scenario. I’d like to see your Olympus shoot 4K video, shoot football matches in the pouring rain, shoot weddings, shoot magazine editorial fashion.

 

[the black fox]

Err my Panasonic g80 shoots 4K ( not that I have yet tried it ) it coupled with the 100-400 p/ Leica totally water resistant , and can probably do the other stuff as well even the little Olympus om10- Mk.ii shoots at 11.5 FPS not to be sniffed at with the right lens ,don’t knock it till you try it

 

[Raymond Lin]

Err my Panasonic g80 shoots 4K ( not that I have yet tried it ) it coupled with the 100-400 p/ Leica totally water resistant , and can probably do the other stuff as well even the little Olympus om10- Mk.ii shoots at 11.5 FPS not to be sniffed at with the right lens ,don’t knock it till you try it

Then how come the pros hasn’t switched over?

 

[Cagey75]

It’s so easy to judge base on 1 scenario. I’d like to see your Olympus shoot 4K video, shoot football matches in the pouring rain, shoot weddings, shoot magazine editorial fashion.

He's using a Panasinic G80, which does 4K as good as any other, it's also weather resistant as is the Pana-Leica 100-400 and I see no reason why it couldn't shoot a wedding with some nice primes

Then how come the pros hasn’t switched over?

Some actually have! Every week I see videos on YT of photographers switching to mirrorless from their Dslr set ups, many really fancy the smaller size and weight and are realising they are very capable cameras. The ones who have no interest probably depend on excellent low light performance, an M43 just doesn't offer that.

 

[Raymond Lin]

He's using a Panasinic G80, which does 4K as good as any other, it's also weather resistant as is the Pana-Leica 100-400 and I see no reason why it couldn't shoot a wedding with some nice primes

This must be the best secret in the photography world.

Dual card slots, joystick on the back, thumb wheel, about 25mp, 13+ stops of DR?

If it has I’m getting one tomorrow.

 

[Cagey75]

This must be the best secret in the photography world.

Dual card slots, joystick on the back, thumb wheel, about 25mp, 13+ stops of DR?

If it has I’m getting one tomorrow.

The G80 doesn't have dual slots no, it has an excellent touch screen, why would it need a joystick? why do you need 25mp? the Panasonic G9 has 20mp, good enough? it's also got that joystick as it happens and dual slots. If you're shooting professionally the G9 or GH5 are what you would buy. The G80 is simply a stripped down version.

It took me all of 10 seconds to find a pro wedding shooter who uses M43:

https://blog.mingthein.com/2017/12/21/micro-four-thirds-and-wedding-photography/

I can't see many complaining about his results.

 

[Raymond Lin]

The G80 doesn't have dual slots no, it has an excellent touch screen, why would it need a joystick? why do you need 25mp? the Panasonic G9 has 20mp, good enough? it's also got that joystick as it happens and dual slots. If you're shooting professionally the G9 or GH5 are what you would buy. The G80 is simply a stripped down version.

It took me all of 10 seconds to find a pro wedding shooter who uses M43:

https://blog.mingthein.com/2017/12/21/micro-four-thirds-and-wedding-photography/

I can't see many complaining about his results.

Finding someone who uses it isn’t really an argument, because I’ve seen people shot weddings with iPhone 4 before.

Why do I want those specs? Because I they are the specs I look for in a modern camera.

 

[Cagey75]

Finding someone who uses it isn’t really an argument, because I’ve seen people shot weddings with iPhone 4 before.

Why do I want those specs? Because I they are the specs I look for in a modern camera.

You asked the question, is it capable of doing a wedding, I just showed you it is - so yes, it is an argument for it. Why did you pose the question if you're going to bring phones into it?

The G9 has everything you just requested bar the extra 5mp ... so when are you buying one?

 

[Raymond Lin]

You asked the question, is it capable of doing a wedding, I just showed you it is - so yes, it is an argument for it. Why did you pose the question if you're going to bring phones into it?

The G9 has everything you just requested bar the extra 5mp ... so when are you buying one?

An old film SLR is capable of shooting a wedding too.

I never actually ask for a camera that is capable of shooting a wedding, read back, I think your subconscious is playing tricks on you. I ask if the camera has those exact specs.

The answer is a NO.

 

[Raymond Lin]

It’s not to say it’s not a good camera but my question was a rather simple one, a list of hardware spec, yes or no. That’s it.

It simply does not meet my minimum hardware requirements.

 

[Cagey75]

I never actually ask for a camera that is capable of shooting a wedding, read back, I think your subconscious is playing tricks on you. I ask if the camera has those exact specs.

The answer is a NO.

I think you need to wake yourself up Raymond, not only did you get the make wrong when responding to blackfox, but now you're trying to say you didn't say this -

I’d like to see your Olympus shoot 4K video, shoot football matches in the pouring rain, shoot weddings, shoot magazine editorial fashion.

I just showed you Olympus cameras used to shoot weddings. What exactly are you confusing yourself about? I don't care what you use, I always find your posts hilarious in that you contradict yourself so often, I'm playing along. You also said if a Panasonic camera had dual slots, a joystick, 25mp and good DR you'd buy one tomorrow .... your words, not mine.

 

[Raymond Lin]

I think you need to wake yourself up Raymond, not only did you get the make wrong when responding to blackfox, but now you're trying to say you didn't say this -



I just showed you Olympus cameras used to shoot weddings. What exactly are you confusing yourself about? I don't care what you use, I always find your posts hilarious in that you contradict yourself so often, I'm playing along. You also said if a Panasonic camera had dual slots, a joystick, 25mp and good DR you'd buy one tomorrow .... your words, not mine.

You are quoting and replying to the wrong post, that was in reference what the th 1D is capable of doing, in the second post I simply ask for a spec list. I also said many other things too, how come you didn’t find a sample for each one?

If you had followed the conversation you will see I ask for a spec list. But you went back to an earlier post.

The spec is the specs I want in a camera. It’s very basic. Like I prefer it to be in black instead of pink, sure a pink one can shoot weddings but that’s not what I’m asking.

 

[Raymond Lin]

And the conclusion is that the Panasonic does not have those specs, so i won’t be buying one tomorrow.

 

[the black fox]

To do the pics I take mainly wildlife with a 600mmlens ,but with a bit of landscape and macro using two bodies and say three lenses my gear would have weighed in at around 20+kg plus tripod and gimbal .
My bag now is a shoulder bag two bodies a super tele that does both long range b.i.f and close up virtual macro plus a back up body with wide angle fitted all up weight well under 3 kg . I.q equal to my full frame canon ,if I just use the one body and long lens the weight is under 1.5kg. Wonder if Nikon will beat that ,who knows come to think about who cares

 

[Cagey75]

You are quoting and replying to the wrong post, that was in reference what the th 1D is capable of doing, in the second post I simply ask for a spec list. I also said many other things too, how come you didn’t find a sample for each one?

If you had followed the conversation you will see I ask for a spec list. But you went back to an earlier post.

The spec is the specs I want in a camera. It’s very basic. Like I prefer it to be in black instead of pink, sure a pink one can shoot weddings but that’s not what I’m asking.

Wow, you really are confused by your own statements! But it's right there, you questioned if an 'Olympus' even though he was talking about a Panasonic, could do weddings - nothing to do with a 1D

And the conclusion is that the Panasonic does not have those specs, so i won’t be buying one tomorrow.

It has everything bar 5mp you desire, so for you, higher MP count matters the most? Why don't you shoot MF?

 

[Raymond Lin]

To do the pics I take mainly wildlife with a 600mmlens ,but with a bit of landscape and macro using two bodies and say three lenses my gear would have weighed in at around 20+kg plus tripod and gimbal .
My bag now is a shoulder bag two bodies a super tele that does both long range b.i.f and close up virtual macro plus a back up body with wide angle fitted all up weight well under 3 kg . I.q equal to my full frame canon ,if I just use the one body and long lens the weight is under 1.5kg. Wonder if Nikon will beat that ,who knows come to think about who cares

FF sensor cameras systemswill never be as light as m4/3.

Fact.

You don’t need to wonder, the system will be similar size to the DSLR but with a smaller body. It might shave off a gram here or there but it will still be big.

 

[Raymond Lin]

Wow, you really are confused by your own statements! But it's right there, you questioned if an 'Olympus' even though he was talking about a Panasonic, could do weddings - nothing to do with a 1D



It has everything bar 5mp you desire, so for you, higher MP count matters the most?

By everything you mean It is missing the mp, thumb stick, dual card slots. Not just the 5mp, looks who is confused now...

The last one is non negotiable.

It simply does not tick all the boxes.

Simple, very simple. Like really simple.

 

[Cagey75]

The Sony A7III is a mere 50g heavier then the G9, they proved that at least, FF doesn't have to be huge. The lenses will be bigger ofc, but if you only ever shot with small primes there's not that much difference.

 

[Cagey75]

By everything you mean It is missing the mp, thumb stick, dual card slots. Not just the 5mp, looks who is confused now...

The last one is non negotiable.

It simply does not tick all the boxes.

Simple, very simple. Like really simple.

I suggested the G9, you need to stop skim reading. The only one confused here is you, and this seems to happens often. The Panasonic G9, which is more aimed at pro work, has all of those feature, but I've already told you this. You only read what suits yourself but it just has you going round in circles.

Out of curiosity, what do you actually shoot with? I thought you were a Canon head, but you appear a lot in the Sony A7 thread

 

[Raymond Lin]

And no, higher mega pixels not automatically mean better but are you happy to get a 1mp camera?

I have to draw the line somewhere and that somewhere for me is around 25mp.

It’s like all my DSLR has had a thumbstick so for my way of shooting I have to have one. It’s a work flow thing.

Dual card slots is self explanatory.

 

[Raymond Lin]

I suggested the G9, you need to stop skim reading. The only one confused here is you, and this seems to happens often. The Panasonic G9, which is more aimed at pro work, has all of those feature, but I've already told you this. You only read what suits yourself but it just has you going round in circles.

Out of curiosity, what do you actually shoot with? I thought you were a Canon head, but you appear a lot in the Sony A7 thread

I have all my Canon gear and also a A73 with Zeiss 25, 35 Distagon, 50 Planar and 85 FE.

 

[Cagey75]

Again, the Panasonic G9 has a thumb-stick, it's got dual card slots, it's also built like a tank, fast, powerful and I would say reliable for any job. It might not be for you, but it's got all the things you ask for [bar the 5 extra mp]

The A7III looks amazing, I would happily switch all of my gear for one but then I'd be stuck with like 1 lens for ages

 

[Raymond Lin]

Again, the Panasonic G9 has a thumb-stick, it's got dual card slots, it's also built like a tank, fast, powerful and I would say reliable for any job. It might not be for you, but it's got all the things you ask for [bar the 5 extra mp]

The A7III looks amazing, I would happily switch all of my gear for one but then I'd be stuck with like 1 lens for ages

The A73 is amazing, probably the best camera I’ve ever used but it’s still has quirks that I find irritating, not a deal breaker, just irritating.

 

[the black fox]

Each to there own needs and wants and affordability

 

[andy1868]

My mirrorless Nikon arrived this morning, typical Nikon though, got a fault already

 

[Cagey75]

My mirrorless Nikon arrived this morning, typical Nikon though, got a fault already

View attachment 130799

Pretty sure I used one of those as a kid! My Dad always had a bunch of cameras and I would 'borrow' them, buy film with my pocket money and go shoot random stuffs - it was like waiting for Christmas awaiting the prints to return - local shop used to take them in, £3 I think it was to get a roll developed and you'd get a free roll to keep going. We also had an Olympus Trip 35, good times

 

[Gaz J]

I know a few Wildlife pro photographers and none of them are contemplating switching. I know one who has an Olympus set up and likes it but for fast moving subjects and low light photography finds it not good enough for his needs so switches back to his Canon set up. For most pros delivering the best quality images is their requirement, that means with as little compromise as possible. So while you m4/3 fanboys might argue that you can hardly tell the difference between a ff and a m4/3 they are just as many out there who can tell the difference and as the conditions in which they shoot get more difficult the difference becomes more significant.

If you’re happy with your M4/3 great. If it means that you don’t get a sore shoulder from carrying your bag, wonderful but the day hasn’t arrived when m4/3 meets the requirements of many many photographers. If it had they would be buying it.

As for weight, yes there are days when I wish I wasn’t lugging a 500 and 1 series body around but I console myself with the fact that I’m betting higher quality images by doing so and that’s what counts for me, not having a light set up and then looking at the results and thinking, if only I’d taken my Canon/Nikon

It’s great that so much variety exists for everyone, pro or amateur, to find the set up that gives them what they require.

Didn’t see many m4/3 set ups at the World Cup.

 

[Cagey75]

I know a few Wildlife pro photographers and none of them are contemplating switching. I know one who has an Olympus set up and likes it but for fast moving subjects and low light photography finds it not good enough for his needs so switches back to his Canon set up. For most pros delivering the best quality images is their requirement, that means with as little compromise as possible. So while you m4/3 fanboys might argue that you can hardly tell the difference between a ff and a m4/3 they are just as many out there who can tell the difference and as the conditions in which they shoot get more difficult the difference becomes more significant.

If you’re happy with your M4/3 great. If it means that you don’t get a sore shoulder from carrying your bag, wonderful but the day hasn’t arrived when m4/3 meets the requirements of many many photographers. If it had they would be buying it.

As for weight, yes there are days when I wish I wasn’t lugging a 500 and 1 series body around but I console myself with the fact that I’m betting higher quality images by doing so and that’s what counts for me, not having a light set up and then looking at the results and thinking, if only I’d taken my Canon/Nikon

It’s great that so much variety exists for everyone, pro or amateur, to find the set up that gives them what they require.

Didn’t see many m4/3 set ups at the World Cup.

Who are you talking to? because the thread isn't about M43, so if you mean me? I don't care how many of your wannabe pro mates use or don't use M43, I don't see any relevant point to your post overall in fact. "I know a few" .. just stop right there ... a "few" = the masses? whoever said anything about sports? of course you're going to want the fastest AF and those stupidly humongous lenses for that purpose, those are specialists, they photograph F all else! What is your point?

 

[the black fox]

I know a few Wildlife pro photographers and none of them are contemplating switching. I know one who has an Olympus set up and likes it but for fast moving subjects and low light photography finds it not good enough for his needs so switches back to his Canon set up. For most pros delivering the best quality images is their requirement, that means with as little compromise as possible. So while you m4/3 fanboys might argue that you can hardly tell the difference between a ff and a m4/3 they are just as many out there who can tell the difference and as the conditions in which they shoot get more difficult the difference becomes more significant.

If you’re happy with your M4/3 great. If it means that you don’t get a sore shoulder from carrying your bag, wonderful but the day hasn’t arrived when m4/3 meets the requirements of many many photographers. If it had they would be buying it.

As for weight, yes there are days when I wish I wasn’t lugging a 500 and 1 series body around but I console myself with the fact that I’m betting higher quality images by doing so and that’s what counts for me, not having a light set up and then looking at the results and thinking, if only I’d taken my Canon/Nikon

It’s great that so much variety exists for everyone, pro or amateur, to find the set up that gives them what they require.

Didn’t see many m4/3 set ups at the World Cup.

Surely it’s all down to cost and weight with a fair bit of brand snobbery thrown in ,I have shot wildlife with canon and Nikon for many years ,getting older lugging the gear about was starting to take the pleasure out of it , I thought that changing systems would lose me to much in the way of fast moving b.i.f low light etc . I can happily say now after a few months it hasn’t ,it’s a stiff learning curve and I’ll be the first to admit I’m still learning , I wish that I had gone for the top end body for starters but it will come with time . The reason a lot of the pros haven’t changed is there stuck in a rut afraid to change in case they miss that shot but to scared because of that to take the plunge . Yes it takes time but the likes of Olympus have really got there act together and are producing really fast beneficial changes under the radar ,rather than tiny incremental snippets that canikon produce to make you spend thousands with no real gain .back to the alleged Nikon mirrorless f.f well it’s a big if there last attempt the v1 and v2 went tits up extremely fast they need to bring out a system with a range of legacy lenses that will appeal to the masses at the right price ,canon have tried with there M series and while the cameras are good the adaptor system and the use of heavy lenses for wildlife,sports etc makes them uninspiring ,time will tell

 

[chuckles]

there last attempt the v1 and v2 went tits up extremely fas

And the reason being? The media never got behind it. It was poorly timed on the back of the M43 revolution - it was always spoken of as "that small sensor camera from Nikon" - as far as I ever found it was decried as being smaller than a 4/3rds sensor so can't be any good.

I did a lot of investigation into the Nikon 1 series before I purchased one (or two) - Nikon designed it ALL new from the ground up; a whole new team with the brief, "Learn from the failings of our current dSLR line-up". I'm led to believe it was their own sensor - not Sony. Add in to it the FT1 adapter and you have system which was quite amazing - utilising almost any F mount lens.

I was, and still am, amazed at what these little cameras are capable of - search on this forum for examples, there are plenty of them.

Given Nikon must have learned from this I have great hopes for a FF mirrorless Nikon. Just don't let the Photo Press have their biased opinions or have a less than objective view of it!

If I were in Nikon's shoes - it's the Media I'd be more scared of than any technical deficiencies.

 

[woof woof]

It’s so easy to judge base on 1 scenario. I’d like to see your Olympus shoot 4K video, shoot football matches in the pouring rain, shoot weddings, shoot magazine editorial fashion.

There is a very good photographer who shoots weddings with MFT (Oly I think) and posts on this forum and their pictures are outstanding as are the ones on their website.

 

[SsSsSsSsSnake]

 

[woof woof]

You'll get fat.

You need to think about how and why you snack between meals.

 

[Raymond Lin]

There is a very good photographer who shoots weddings with MFT (Oly I think) and posts on this forum and their pictures are outstanding as are the ones on their website.

I have NEVER said you can't shoot weddings with m4/3.

The original post was comparing someone's m4/3 to another person's Canon 1D base on a single scenario, not mentioning every other aspect of photography. I am merely pointing out there are other aspect, and the strength of the 1D will pull ahead and make its worth.

I mean Jeff Ascough shots much of his early work on a film camera, now should I say that "why do I need to move to digital when the results as just as good?"