Nikon mirrorless definitely on the way

BigBudgie said:
I've got so used to my Nikon D5 now I just don't think I could adapt to such a tiny camera as the Sony A7 III. It looks like a toy !!!

nikon-d5-oder-sony-alpha-a7r-iii by bigbudgie, on Flickr
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My God.

One argument I've never really understood is the one that you need a big body to balance a big lens. This doesn't make sense to me as whenever I've used larger lenses my left hand has been under the lens ready to operate the zoom/focus and also supporting it. That's just me and of course your YMMV but give me a camera that's only as large as it needs to be for handling and operating the controls and no larger.

I suppose as my background is in computing and wider electronics there's a part of me that equates the more compact designs with precision and accuracy like a good piece of test kit rather than the larger and almost Fisher Price / Makita looking large plastic moulding type bulkier kit I'd expect to see on a building site.

As I said, if Canikon go bulky I do hope that there will always be more compact kit.
 
In my opinion the A7R3 Just is not a good match for the 70-200 or larger lenses. Raising up the camera to the eye made my top finger hurt, IMO it’s just not designed to work with big lenses.

Clearly the A7 series is a loved and popular camera but there are just as many people out there who do not want anything that small.
 
Hmmm. Surface mount tech in a precision moulded case v valves nailed to a block of wood in someones shed. That's how I tend to see it. Hi Tech v not much tech. :D

And again, these cameras are not small. They're pretty much the size of my SLR's as I remember them but heavier as SLR's were pretty much an empty plastic box.

Off out now... with a FF camera that would fit in a coat pocket, if I was wearing a coat today :D
 
Looking at Canon's 1Dx2, there are 29 buttons, 3 dials, 2 joysticks and a lever switch. One presumes that they're the result of research into user needs and it's difficult to imagine how they could be accommodated on a smaller body.
 
I have no issues using my Sony A9 with its battery grip.
I have used Nikon DSLR’s, Fuji X Series and Sony A7/9 series bodies and have always managed to adapt even using bigger lenses.
 
Canon Bob said:
Looking at Canon's 1Dx2, there are 29 buttons, 3 dials, 2 joysticks and a lever switch. One presumes that they're the result of research into user needs and it's difficult to imagine how they could be accommodated on a smaller body.
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I'm holding a remote control in my hand... it's small and it weighs next to nothing, wanna guess how many buttons it has??? :D

45 :D

Just sayin, a lot of control and features can be included in a small device. The counter argument will be that it'll be fiddly. Maybe it's because I'm used to using feature and control rich precision kit that I have no issue with this :D
 
Peeps are just making up excuses as to why they need a bigly, macho body.

As Alan said, we used to manage.
Fair enough my F4 is a decent size :) but my Contax 139s are about the same size as NEX 6. You just hold the lens.
What's difficult about that?
 
JJ! said:
In my opinion the A7R3 Just is not a good match for the 70-200 or larger lenses. Raising up the camera to the eye made my top finger hurt, IMO it’s just not designed to work with big lenses.
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That sounds like you're trying to balance the weight on your right hand through the grip, you're supposed to brace the weight with your left hand though.

My opinion hasn't changed on the ergonomics, the A7 feels like a toy because it's so much smaller in hand but after getting used to it I still find the Nikon slightly more natural fitting into my hand but it also feels ridiculously big at the same time.

woof woof said:
One argument I've never really understood is the one that you need a big body to balance a big lens.
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I've found that if I have two equal weights, one in a large box and one in a small box the larger box will be easier to carry (within reason), I'm assuming it's more my perception than an actual difference but nonetheless it does feel easier...
 
Its been mentioned a few times already but for me it is easy to add more weight / size to the Sony via either a battery grip or the new L-brackets that add a few cm depth and a small amount of weight. For landscapes I am happy with the small / light body as it comes up very large hills with me.
I have switched recently from Nikon to Sony as I wanted a better 16-35 option than Nikon can muster. I have owned both the 17-35 and 16-35 Nikons and they are ok at best. Soft corners / edges and variable quality from lens to lens. I am seeing more Nikon users ditching the 16-35 and moving to something like the 20mm 1.8.
Nikon may have more lenses than Sony but I don't want lots of lenses - I want one that is sharp corner to corner.
 
JJ! said:
In my opinion the A7R3 Just is not a good match for the 70-200 or larger lenses. Raising up the camera to the eye made my top finger hurt, IMO it’s just not designed to work with big lenses.

Clearly the A7 series is a loved and popular camera but there are just as many people out there who do not want anything that small.
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Do you really only use the camera one handed all the time? I've pretty much always used both hands, even with the small lenses.

Having said that, I do find the larger bodies more comfortable. My 1D4 just sits in my hand nicely, whereas I have to grip the X-T2. It doesn't mean I can't/don't like using the X-T2. It's just not as comfortable. If a grip added to a smaller body makes it beefy enough, then it's less of an issue (I always have a grip extender on my X-T2, it's still not quite as comfortable but improved things a lot for me).
 
Mirrorless offers a great opportunity for a complete camera redesign, ergonomically led. An electronic viewfinder can go anywhere (preferably so we don't have to shove our noses against the LCD) and there's lots of valuable real estate on the lens barrel that's mostly wasted.

It would be great not to have to turn the whole camera for a vertical shot and just rotate the sensor, though I think we'll have to wait to get rid of the mechanical shutter first, and then have a square sensor that can be cropped any which way.
 
jj_glos said:
Do you really only use the camera one handed all the time? I've pretty much always used both hands, even with the small lenses.

Having said that, I do find the larger bodies more comfortable. My 1D4 just sits in my hand nicely, whereas I have to grip the X-T2. It doesn't mean I can't/don't like using the X-T2. It's just not as comfortable. If a grip added to a smaller body makes it beefy enough, then it's less of an issue (I always have a grip extender on my X-T2, it's still not quite as comfortable but improved things a lot for me).
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No I use two handed but I only use one hand to bring the camera up from my side.
 
HoppyUK said:
Mirrorless offers a great opportunity for a complete camera redesign, ergonomically led..... there's lots of valuable real estate on the lens barrel that's mostly wasted.
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I think that particular boat has already sailed, unless Nikon choose to relaunch it with their new mirrorless mount. (And I think that's extremely unlikely.)

I'm sure you remember the Samsung NX system, but for the benefit of those who never encountered it: the "valuable real estate on the lens barrel" was put to good use. Their lenses featured a button which, when pressed, turned the manual focus ring into... something else. It was possible to use the manual focus ring to set the aperture, shutter speed, exposure compensation, ISO, and white balance. Personally I thought the ergonomics of the design were absolutely superb, and I don't know why other manufacturers haven't done something similar.
 
jj_glos said:
I've only used a film SLR nothing like a Bronica. For me, I do find a larger heavier body/lens combo helps me to get smoother pans, so maybe it helped. Having a mirror image in the viewfinder can't help much though!
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I’d guess he used a prism.

I tried panning with a WLF one, it was only hilarious if there was no ‘need’ to get the shot.
 
StewartR said:
I think that particular boat has already sailed, unless Nikon choose to relaunch it with their new mirrorless mount. (And I think that's extremely unlikely.)

I'm sure you remember the Samsung NX system, but for the benefit of those who never encountered it: the "valuable real estate on the lens barrel" was put to good use. Their lenses featured a button which, when pressed, turned the manual focus ring into... something else. It was possible to use the manual focus ring to set the aperture, shutter speed, exposure compensation, ISO, and white balance. Personally I thought the ergonomics of the design were absolutely superb, and I don't know why other manufacturers haven't done something similar.
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Over the years, there have been a few attempts at something different. Some of the less radical ones even made it into production (limited and short-lived) but most have never got beyond the concept stage.

While it could be argued that the basic design we have now is not ideal and was originally dictated by mechanical and optical necessity dating back to the original Leica, it actually works pretty well.

Edit: medium-format film SLRs were different, but digital medium-format has now generally morphed into the common DSLR mould.
 
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I've been walking around Berlin for the past 3 days with the Lim's leather grip on the A73 and i must say its the right size. The length of the camera is comfortable now and I often actually stick my little finger in to the little void of the battery door for grip.

And the more I use the Peak Design Slide strap the more I hate it.

It's too stiff, the buckle is on the wrong side? it's on the inside where the anti rubber bits are for the shoulder? weird.

I like the hand strap but I think I'll just get a standard leather strap for this later on.
 
Raymond Lin said:
And the more I use the Peak Design Slide strap the more I hate it.

It's too stiff, the buckle is on the wrong side? it's on the inside where the anti rubber bits are for the shoulder? weird.
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I'm with you on that, I don't like it at all. I've said it plenty of times when people ask about straps but seem to be in the minority as it's the one most people recommend...
 
Raymond Lin said:
And the more I use the Peak Design Slide strap the more I hate it.

It's too stiff, the buckle is on the wrong side? it's on the inside where the anti rubber bits are for the shoulder? weird.
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Now I’m wondering if I use my Peak Design strap inside out, or if you do!
 
Eloise said:
Now I’m wondering if I use my Peak Design strap inside out, or if you do!
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My guess you are then :)

The strap has thin rubber bits on one side. That's the side you are supposed to use when using it as a shoulder strap to stop it slipping off your shoulder but when used like that the buckle is on the inside.
 
Raymond Lin said:
I've been walking around Berlin for the past 3 days with the Lim's leather grip on the A73 and i must say its the right size. The length of the camera is comfortable now and I often actually stick my little finger in to the little void of the battery door for grip.

And the more I use the Peak Design Slide strap the more I hate it.

It's too stiff, the buckle is on the wrong side? it's on the inside where the anti rubber bits are for the shoulder? weird.

I like the hand strap but I think I'll just get a standard leather strap for this later on.
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Jase said:
I'm with you on that, I don't like it at all. I've said it plenty of times when people ask about straps but seem to be in the minority as it's the one most people recommend...
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Damn!

After weeks of head scratching; I had finally decided to buy a PD Slide.

Now your posts have made me doubt my decision!

If only there was some way of trying these straps out before you bought.
 
Raymond Lin said:
It's too stiff, the buckle is on the wrong side? it's on the inside where the anti rubber bits are for the shoulder? weird.
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They soften up with use. The rubber bits on the strap are there so that if you are also carrying a bag it doesn't slip of the top of the strap rather than being there to stop the strap slipping of your shoulder, this wouldn't be needed as the material the strap is made from wouldn't allow it to slip of your shoulder. That's what I was told anyway, when I bought my first one a couple of years ago anyway. I quite like them, I have 2 of them.
 
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I use both the PeakDesign strap and clutch and highly recommend them.
Also have a couple of Black Rapid straps too, also great for two body usage. :)
 
f/2.8 said:
They soften up with use. The rubber bits on the strap are there so that if you are also carrying a bag it doesn't slip of the top of the strap rather than being there to stop the strap slipping of your shoulder, this wouldn't be needed as the material the strap is made from wouldn't allow it to slip of your shoulder. That's what I was told anyway, when I bought my first one a couple of years ago anyway. I quite like them, I have 2 of them.
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Sounds like you were done by the salesman :D

From the PD website:

"Internally-padded nylon webbing has a smooth side that glides over clothing in sling mode and a grippy side that prevents slipping in shoulder mode."
 
jj_glos said:
Sounds like you were done by the salesman :D

From the PD website:

"Internally-padded nylon webbing has a smooth side that glides over clothing in sling mode and a grippy side that prevents slipping in shoulder mode."
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LOL but good thinking by the salesman! not what it's designed obviously but good try.
 
kendo1 said:
Peeps are just making up excuses as to why they need a bigly, macho body.

As Alan said, we used to manage.
Fair enough my F4 is a decent size :) but my Contax 139s are about the same size as NEX 6. You just hold the lens.
What's difficult about that?
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And the adults are still wanting to be children playing with small toys.

Some people prefer the grips on bigger cameras, I’m not sure why so many Sony owners have a problem with other people having opinions they don’t agree with. They are the most biased group of camera owners I have ever met!

I have both in my house. I have tried both together. It’s noting about being ‘macho’ that I choose the D750. That’s just being silly bearing in mind with the 70-200 attached that are same weight and apart from the smaller body the same sort of size. Guess both look macho lol
 
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JJ! said:
And the adults are still wanting to be children playing with small toys.

Some people prefer the grips on bigger cameras, I’m not sure why so many Sony owners have a problem with other people having opinions they don’t agree with. They are the most biased group of camera owners I have ever met!

I have both in my house. I have tried both together. It’s noting about being ‘macho’ that I choose the D750. That’s just being silly.
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I can't say I prefer a particular camera size.
My NEX 6 is small and light as is my 139. D600 is a bit bigger, good grip. F4 is fun!
I just adjust the way I hold them. It also depends on the lens I am using as to the preferred grip/hold.
 
Hey I’m still taking out the Sony next weekend! I’m just fighting both corners!
 
Jase said:
My guess you are then :)

The strap has thin rubber bits on one side. That's the side you are supposed to use when using it as a shoulder strap to stop it slipping off your shoulder but when used like that the buckle is on the inside.
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But thats not the way they shown it being used on the Peak Design website...
 
Eloise said:
But thats not the way they shown it being used on the Peak Design website...
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In what way? The pictures and text describe that, and the video shows it that way when used as a shoulder strap as well. Rubber grips on the shoulder, resulting in the buckles facing inwards. This is logical as when reversed to use as a slide the buckles need to face out.
 
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