Notes on windscreens

[stevelmx5]

Is it though, what if stopping straight away was all that it would have taken to save the patients life but the time to get across to the hard shoulder and stop was too long?

But that’s what they did (pulled in safely as fast as possible) and you’re criticising them for it?

 

[nilagin]

But that’s what they did (pulled in safely as fast as possible) and you’re criticising them for it?

And by doing so, what if they had blocked someone in, who had their own life saving/threatening situation going on?
There's plenty of people who die from an unfortunate and unlikely chain of events, but it does happen. Just because the chances of it happening are low, doesn't mean it won't happen. The ambulance driver had no idea who's drive they had parked across.

 

[stevelmx5]

And by doing so, what if they had blocked someone in, who had their own life saving/threatening situation going on?
There's plenty of people who die from an unfortunate and unlikely chain of events, but it does happen. Just because the chances of it happening are low, doesn't mean it won't happen. The ambulance driver had no idea who's drive they had parked across.

Tell you what, let’s agree to disagree because this is getting stupid with the what ifs. In this case, the fact is that the person who’s drive they blocked was clearly fit enough to bang on the side of the van, hurl insults then write a petulant note and put it under the wiper.

If I ever need an ambulance for myself or anyone I know I’m sure I wouldn’t be worrying more about the concerns of someone who couldn’t get off their drive for 10 minutes.

 

[Marc]

Neil, If the ambulance has to stop in order for life saving treatment to be given, they will stop at the nearest place it is safe to do, they will not waste precious seconds finding a parking space because there might be an infinitesimal chance that they might cause a chain of events that might lead to an event occurring that is worse than their patient dying!

 

[viv1969]

They weren't yet en route.

They had brought the patient out of his residence - a residential rehab unit, when his condition deteriorated. He wasn't coughing up blood, he was vomiting large amounts of blood. Haemorrhaging.

The Berk who left the note is an imbecile.

They weren't even preventing him from leaving his drive, but from entering it.

It's an ambulance, mate. God forbid you should ever need one. Go park elsewhere and put the car back on the drive when the ambulance leaves.

Only apologised to try and save face.
Fail.

 

[stevelmx5]

They weren't yet en route.

They had brought the patient out of his residence - a residential rehab unit, when his condition deteriorated. He wasn't coughing up blood, he was vomiting large amounts of blood. Haemorrhaging.

The Berk who left the note is an imbecile.

They weren't even preventing him from leaving his drive, but from entering it.

It's an ambulance, mate. God forbid you should ever need one. Go park elsewhere and put the car back on the drive when the ambulance leaves.

Only apologised to try and save face.
Fail.

Oh right, I didn’t realise they were blocked from getting on to their drive. In that case, I take it all back, you can’t stop people getting on to their sofa in time for Jeremy Kyle for anything so the Paramedic deserved everything they got!

(Sarcasm by the way)

 

[wontolla]

They weren't yet en route.

They had brought the patient out of his residence - a residential rehab unit, when his condition deteriorated. He wasn't coughing up blood, he was vomiting large amounts of blood. Haemorrhaging.

The Berk who left the note is an imbecile.

They weren't even preventing him from leaving his drive, but from entering it.

It's an ambulance, mate. God forbid you should ever need one. Go park elsewhere and put the car back on the drive when the ambulance leaves.

Only apologised to try and save face.
Fail.

Reading through this he is not the only one.

 

[Phil V]

No, my point was if they can take the extra time to pull over safely on a hard shoulder which could take considerably longer in terms of time and distance, they could do the same if they need to pull over on a residential road etc.

Neil.
Do you honestly believe that a driver trained to the highest standards didn’t have the presence of mind to carefully choose where he / she was parking?

Do you think he/she chose to block in a car where there would have been many safer / better alternatives available?

I find it incredulous, that with no evidence to suggest there was a better alternative, you’ve assumed that a professional driver has simply chosen to inconvenience someone for no good reason.

It goes along with your defence of Katie Hopkins’ racist tweet (that she was ashamed enough of to delete) as a totally bizarre conclusion for a rational grown up.

 

[Steve Smith]

Do you honestly believe that a driver trained to the highest standards didn’t have the presence of mind to carefully choose where he / she was parking?

Do you think he/she chose to block in a car where there would have been many safer / better alternatives available?

^^ Absolutely this.

Disclaimer - my son is a trainee paramedic, so the paramedics involved have my total support and I have zero sympathy for anyone temporarily inconvenienced by this.


Steve.

 

[Byker28i]

The writer of the note now says he was wrong...
http://metro.co.uk/2017/11/13/drive...ng-dying-man-admits-it-was-monstrous-7076888/

 

[Phil V]

^^ Absolutely this.

Disclaimer - my son is a trainee paramedic, so the paramedics involved have my total support and I have zero sympathy for anyone temporarily inconvenienced by this.


Steve.

One of my best mates is a paramedic, not fun to be a passenger in his car though, he has a completely different view of road conditions to me.

 

[viv1969]

The writer of the note now says he was wrong...
http://metro.co.uk/2017/11/13/drive...ng-dying-man-admits-it-was-monstrous-7076888/

Which was mentioned in this thread on Tuesday

 

[nilagin]

Neil.
Do you honestly believe that a driver trained to the highest standards didn’t have the presence of mind to carefully choose where he / she was parking?

Do you think he/she chose to block in a car where there would have been many safer / better alternatives available?

I find it incredulous, that with no evidence to suggest there was a better alternative, you’ve assumed that a professional driver has simply chosen to inconvenience someone for no good reason.

It goes along with your defence of Katie Hopkins’ racist tweet (that she was ashamed enough of to delete) as a totally bizarre conclusion for a rational grown up.

As a paramedic they would / should be trained to a high standard. However I can't see what training you'd require to driving an ambulance. I'd have thought a standard driving licence would suffice and the ability and confidence to drive a van. Just because driving is part of your job, it doesn't mean you are a fully competent driver.
More and more details of the incident are coming to light. Initially all that was known was that the note had been left on the windscreen and that the ambulance had stopped to attend to the patient whilst on route. Now we learn the ambulance was still at the scene of the emergency. From what I have read even more recently is they had double parked as there was no space. Now we are being told the note writer wasn't prevented from getting off his drive but getting onto his drive.
Even you had said there may well be reasons why someone would need to get off the drive.

Yes the bloke was in the wrong for leaving the note. But I find it very odd that the story keeps changing and making it worse.

 

[Marc]

As a paramedic they would / should be trained to a high standard. However I can't see what training you'd require to driving an ambulance. I'd have thought a standard driving licence would suffice and the ability and confidence to drive a van. Just because driving is part of your job, it doesn't mean you are a fully competent driver.

Seriously? It's an emergency vehicle, you think all it requires is the ability and confidence to drive a van?

 

[munch]

All ambulance staff (who drive) do an additional training course and also have to undergo refresher courses.

 

[Phil V]

As a paramedic they would / should be trained to a high standard. However I can't see what training you'd require to driving an ambulance. I'd have thought a standard driving licence would suffice and the ability and confidence to drive a van. Just because driving is part of your job, it doesn't mean you are a fully competent driver.

Well you’d be wrong, and seriously it ought to be blindingly obvious.

 

[Byker28i]

Which was mentioned in this thread on Tuesday

Apologies - missed that

 

[Phil V]

Yes the bloke was in the wrong for leaving the note. But I find it very odd that the story keeps changing and making it worse.

I’m struggling to understand how blocking an empty drive is ‘worse’ than blocking an occupied one.

And yes I did indeed suggest the writer of the note ‘could’ have had good reason for doing so. But he didn’t, he’s come forward and apologised. Yet you’re still fighting his corner. Again, like Katie who deleted her racist tweet, but you still demanded we gave her the benefit of the doubt.

I’m happy to defend someone who may have an innocent motive, but once they’ve given up, it’s time to reassess, rather than flogging a dead horse.

 

[stevelmx5]

As a paramedic they would / should be trained to a high standard. However I can't see what training you'd require to driving an ambulance. I'd have thought a standard driving licence would suffice and the ability and confidence to drive a van. Just because driving is part of your job, it doesn't mean you are a fully competent driver.
More and more details of the incident are coming to light. Initially all that was known was that the note had been left on the windscreen and that the ambulance had stopped to attend to the patient whilst on route. Now we learn the ambulance was still at the scene of the emergency. From what I have read even more recently is they had double parked as there was no space. Now we are being told the note writer wasn't prevented from getting off his drive but getting onto his drive.
Even you had said there may well be reasons why someone would need to get off the drive.

Yes the bloke was in the wrong for leaving the note. But I find it very odd that the story keeps changing and making it worse.

You really think that driving an ambulance doesn’t require extra training? I’m not sure many people would happily drive a several ton ambulance at high speed through residential areas (for example) in an emergency situation. It’s not as if they just pootle around all day and happen upon injured people.

I see you’re now in agreement that the guy was in the wrong for leaving the note, what changed your mind? I’m not sure how the story is getting any worse? The guy was unhappy that the ambulance blocked his driveway and he wrote a snotty note and put it on the windscreen like an arse. That was known from the start.

 

[nilagin]

I’m struggling to understand how blocking an empty drive is ‘worse’ than blocking an occupied one.

And yes I did indeed suggest the writer of the note ‘could’ have had good reason for doing so. But he didn’t, he’s come forward and apologised. Yet you’re still fighting his corner. Again, like Katie who deleted her racist tweet, but you still demanded we gave her the benefit of the doubt.

I’m happy to defend someone who may have an innocent motive, but once they’ve given up, it’s time to reassess, rather than flogging a dead horse.

Where did I say blocking an empty drive was worse than blocking an occupied drive.
What I said was the story keeps changing. As a result of that it is making the whole thing look worse and worse for the bloke who wrote the note.
Nowhere have I defended his corner. All I have said is there are several reasons that someone, not necessarily the bloke involved, may need to get their vehicle off their driveway.
You really do need to diffrentiate between what has been written and what you think has been read.

 

[nilagin]

Well you’d be wrong, and seriously it ought to be blindingly obvious.

What is blindingly obvious to me is an ambulance would need to be driven in a particular manner when an injured or I'll patient is on board. If someone can't appreciate that and drive accordingly yes they may need specialist training but i'd question their ability to drive a normal vehicle in the first place as they should be able to readily adapt to the situation / vehicle.

 

[Phil V]

What is blindingly obvious to me is an ambulance would need to be driven in a particular manner when an injured or I'll patient is on board. If someone can't appreciate that and drive accordingly yes they may need specialist training but i'd question their ability to drive a normal vehicle in the first place as they should be able to readily adapt to the situation / vehicle.

Have you actually ever seen the standard of the average British driver?

Sometimes your posts look like they’ve landed from another planet.

And have you seen the standard of the average nob heads reaction to an emergency vehicle.

 

[Phil V]

Cross post

 

[stevelmx5]

What is blindingly obvious to me is an ambulance would need to be driven in a particular manner when an injured or I'll patient is on board. If someone can't appreciate that and drive accordingly yes they may need specialist training but i'd question their ability to drive a normal vehicle in the first place as they should be able to readily adapt to the situation / vehicle.

How about when that ambulance is travelling at high speed through rush hour traffic with sirens blaring to get to those emergencies? Do you really think that it doesn’t take extra training/skill to be able to do that?

You do come up with some seriously random posts.

 

[AHILL]

Steve he is just winding you up. (baiting you)
Whilst your reasoning is understandable I'm afraid it appears that he takes pleasure from your discomfort and you will never ever change his mind. :banghead:
so chillax and enjoy the forums. everyone has an opinion whether we like it or not.

 

[nilagin]

You really think that driving an ambulance doesn’t require extra training? I’m not sure many people would happily drive a several ton ambulance at high speed through residential areas (for example) in an emergency situation.

How about when that ambulance is travelling at high speed through rush hour traffic with sirens blaring to get to those emergencies? Do you really think that it doesn’t take extra training/skill to be able to do that?

You do come up with some seriously random posts.

What's your definition of high speed. I doubt an ambulance will be travelling at more than 50mph in residential areas, in fact from al the ones I have encountered, they are travelling at little over 30.
Most Rush hour traffic tends to be travelling slower than the speed limit and tends to be dense, an ambulance driver would be hard pushed to be able to hit high speed.
And you accuse me of seriously random posts.

 

[nilagin]

Have you actually ever seen the standard of the average British driver?

Sometimes your posts look like they’ve landed from another planet.

And have you seen the standard of the average nob heads reaction to an emergency vehicle.

What in your definition is the average British driver. I would say the standard of the average British driver is probably higher than you would expect. It is just the actions of the FEW, that gives you the impression it is lower.
What is an average knob head, is that half way between someone that doesn't react to an emergency vehicle and someone who reacts really slowly to an emergency vehicle?

I would say someone prepared to take on driving an ambulance being a paramedic would be way above yours and the majority of peoples perception as an average driver. I'd be interested in what the definition of highly trained is. Highly trained police drivers, yes I can understand that because it involves pursuit, fire engine driver to a degree because of the increased weight of the vehicle, ambulance, it's a van that at time may have a patient in the back to consider, but as I said you don't or shouldn't need to be highly trained to appreciate that.

 

[stevelmx5]

Steve he is just winding you up. (baiting you)
Whilst your reasoning is understandable I'm afraid it appears that he takes pleasure from your discomfort and you will never ever change his mind. :banghead:
so chillax and enjoy the forums. everyone has an opinion whether we like it or not.

You know what, I think you’re probably right.

 

[Phil V]

...
I would say someone prepared to take on driving an ambulance being a paramedic would be way above yours and the majority of peoples perception as an average driver. I'd be interested in what the definition of highly trained is. Highly trained police drivers, yes I can understand that because it involves pursuit, fire engine driver to a degree because of the increased weight of the vehicle, ambulance, it's a van that at time may have a patient in the back to consider, but as I said you don't or shouldn't need to be highly trained to appreciate that.

But that’s like saying ‘I suppose someone wanting to take on healing people would already have better than average medical knowledge, anyone wanting to design engines would have better than average mechanical knowledge, anyone wanting to be a baker....

So there’s no need for anyone to need any training for anything then, we all just have a bit of an interest and fall into a profession that fits our skills.

Neil, that’s f*****g stupid, and I guess that deep down you know it is.

Not only is it obvious to everyone else that an ambulance driver requires specialist training, several of us who ‘know’ ambulance drivers have told you it’s a fact.

But in ‘Neil’s world’ strongly held beliefs appear to outweigh ‘facts’ no matter what the body of evidence. I thought the ‘post truth’ world was just a snappy media phrase, but it appears to be where you happily exist.

 

[nilagin]

But that’s like saying ‘I suppose someone wanting to take on healing people would already have better than average medical knowledge, anyone wanting to design engines would have better than average mechanical knowledge, anyone wanting to be a baker....

So there’s no need for anyone to need any training for anything then, we all just have a bit of an interest and fall into a profession that fits our skill.

Anyone wanting to design engines or be a paramedic may well have a better than average prior knowledge. But unless they have an above average aptitude and intelligence they are unlikely to succeed in passing their required exams and training to get into that career.
What you are saying is a paramedic who has the care of their patient in mind hasn't got a clue how to drive with their patients well being not being at risk. Someone in that profession is above average intelligence. The training given to drive an ambulance is just to meet insurance and litigation needs. Much the same as myself at work, if I want to drive a company test car identical to my own I have to go on a special high performance / high speed driving course. Yet I can drive my own car with nothing more than a standard driving licence no extra training required.

 

[Phil V]

Anyone wanting to design engines or be a paramedic may well have a better than average prior knowledge. But unless they have an above average aptitude and intelligence they are unlikely to succeed in passing their required exams and training to get into that career.
What you are saying is a paramedic who has the care of their patient in mind hasn't got a clue how to drive with their patients well being not being at risk. Someone in that profession is above average intelligence. The training given to drive an ambulance is just to meet insurance and litigation needs. Much the same as myself at work, if I want to drive a company test car identical to my own I have to go on a special high performance / high speed driving course. Yet I can drive my own car with nothing more than a standard driving licence no extra training required.

You really have a warped mind or agenda.

You could quote where I said that if you're going to do this...

You should have kept off the roids till you'd had a healthy breakfast if you want to get involved in a serious discussion, you're just making yourself look daft.

 

[stevelmx5]

What's your definition of high speed. I doubt an ambulance will be travelling at more than 50mph in residential areas, in fact from al the ones I have encountered, they are travelling at little over 30.
Most Rush hour traffic tends to be travelling slower than the speed limit and tends to be dense, an ambulance driver would be hard pushed to be able to hit high speed.
And you accuse me of seriously random posts.

Oh man, why do I keep getting drawn back into chess games with pigeons.


Let me put it as simply as possible.

Theoretically, you’re lying in a pool of blood on the floor at 5pm on a Monday afternoon in the middle of a busy city. Someone calls an ambulance and states it’s an emergency and you’re not responding. The ambulance operators dispatches a full emergency response and a pair of paramedics jump into their ambulance at the nearest hospital (probably in the middle of a 14 hour shift with limited breaks or food) put on their blue lights and sirens to get to you quickly. On the way to you, they come up to a rush hour tailback, do they;

A) Use their high speed driving training to negotiate through the traffic in any way possible, including driving through red lights, on the wrong side of the road or weaving through traffic. At the same time they will be thinking about the casualty ahead of them with limited information from probably non-medically trained members of the public who are panicking.

or

B) Pull up behind the traffic and wait for it to gradually move on like the rest of the general driving population because they don’t know how to act in that situation and you die at the scene safe in the knowledge that you’re right.

I realise that jumping into a Ford Fiesta on a closed test area/factory is probably pretty intense for some people but in the real world it’s slightly different.

 

[nilagin]

You really have a warped mind or agenda.

You could quote where I said that if you're going to do this...

You should have kept off the roids till you'd had a healthy breakfast if you want to get involved in a serious discussion, you're just making yourself look daft.

Odd I haven't seen you quote me where I had apparently been defending the note writer. Yet I got accused of defending him. Perhaps you should review your own intelligence and ineptitude before trying to denigrate others.

 

[nilagin]

Oh man, why do I keep getting drawn back into chess games with pigeons.


Let me put it as simply as possible.

Theoretically, you’re lying in a pool of blood on the floor at 5pm on a Monday afternoon in the middle of a busy city. Someone calls an ambulance and states it’s an emergency and you’re not responding. The ambulance operators dispatches a full emergency response and a pair of paramedics jump into their ambulance at the nearest hospital (probably in the middle of a 14 hour shift with limited breaks or food) put on their blue lights and sirens to get to you quickly. On the way to you, they come up to a rush hour tailback, do they;

A) Use their high speed driving training to negotiate through the traffic in any way possible, including driving through red lights, on the wrong side of the road or weaving through traffic. At the same time they will be thinking about the casualty ahead of them with limited information from probably non-medically trained members of the public who are panicking.

or

B) Pull up behind the traffic and wait for it to gradually move on like the rest of the general driving population because they don’t know how to act in that situation and you die at the scene safe in the knowledge that you’re right.

I realise that jumping into a Ford Fiesta on a closed test area/factory is probably pretty intense for some people but in the real world it’s slightly different.

I think you and everyone else in you vicinity would be better off if you took the bus or at least get some proper driving experience. You obviously have no clue. The same thought process for an ambulance driver to make their way through traffic is pretty much the same for a motorist moving over to let them through. Read the road ahead take note of the surroundings and move safely out of the way to give the ambulance safe passage through the traffic. Ambulance drivers have an advantage anyway they have flashing blue lights and a siren plus indicators. All you have are indicators and a horn. They are already planning ahead as the traffic ahead will have prior notice of them approaching.

 

[stevelmx5]

I think you and everyone else in you vicinity would be better off if you took the bus or at least get some proper driving experience. You obviously have no clue. The same thought process for an ambulance driver to make their way through traffic is pretty much the same for a motorist moving over to let them through. Read the road ahead take note of the surroundings and move safely out of the way to give the ambulance safe passage through the traffic. Ambulance drivers have an advantage anyway they have flashing blue lights and a siren plus indicators. All you have are indicators and a horn. They are already planning ahead as the traffic ahead will have prior notice of them approaching.

Ok, you really are either deliberately just stating the opposite of everyone else or you're actually that dense. Have you ever driven an emergency vehicle or spent any time with class 1 trained drivers to understand what it is you're actually posting? (just before you answer, my dad is a class 1 Police pursuit driver and taught me to drive so he's pretty well versed on the requirements in those situations).

 

[stupar]

Life for an ambulance driver or emergency service is not like this sadly

 

[stevelmx5]

Odd I haven't seen you quote me where I had apparently been defending the note writer.

The ambulance was actually on its way to the hospital. The patient had started coughing up blood and the driver had to pull over to assist the other paramedic. I doubt the driveway was the only spot they could have stopped.

It's not like the only paramedic in an ambulance is the driver. By your reckoning they could just stop in the middle of a set of traffic lights.

But they weren't outside the house they were visiting, they were on route to the hospital.

It depends on whether it is just a case of someone not liking their driveway being blocked. What if someone needs to get off of their drive for an equally important situation. Unlikely but it could happen. As I said before I would be very surrised if the ambulance couldn't have been stopped a few meters earlier or later. The extra few seconds for latter would make no difference to the assistance the driver could provide.

No, my point was if they can take the extra time to pull over safely on a hard shoulder which could take considerably longer in terms of time and distance, they could do the same if they need to pull over on a residential road etc.

What if someone can't get off their drive because it is blocked,

And by doing so, what if they had blocked someone in, who had their own life saving/threatening situation going on?
There's plenty of people who die from an unfortunate and unlikely chain of events, but it does happen. Just because the chances of it happening are low, doesn't mean it won't happen. The ambulance driver had no idea who's drive they had parked across.

I don't see you suggesting he was wrong anywhere? Oh sorry, I missed this one liner after the numerous posts saying everything but he was in the wrong..

Yes the bloke was in the wrong for leaving the note. But I find it very odd that the story keeps changing and making it worse.

 

[Phil V]

Odd I haven't seen you quote me where I had apparently been defending the note writer. Yet I got accused of defending him. Perhaps you should review your own intelligence and ineptitude before trying to denigrate others.

but you were defending the position, and sticking with your original incorrect assertion that an ambulance driver required no more training than a 'white van man' and now you have accepted its a fact they're 'specially trained' you're equating it to your employers 'insurance obligations'.

It's typical bluster trying to defend an ill informed post, and rather than behave like a grown up, youve decided on pigeon chess.

As I posted earlier, its exactly the same as the Katie Hopkins tweet; You decided it wasn't really racist and stuck to your guns despite the fact that:
She'd previously posted many other racist tweets
She deleted it when she realised she'd gone too far
She was sacked from her radio job because she'd gone too far (remarkable given that her 'job' was to be controversial)

And here you are, faced with the reality of an ambulance drivers training, you've decided it doesn't really mean anything. :banghead:

I'll throw a fact into the mix - Ambulance drivers have no insurance policy either
Neither do I when I drive a hire car for work

 

[Steelo]

I think the note has been beaten by ignorance by a few posts in this thread alone!!

 

[nilagin]

I don't see you suggesting he was wrong anywhere? Oh sorry, I missed this one liner after the numerous posts saying everything but he was in the wrong..

Not saying he was in the wrong is nothing to do with defending him. If I was defending him I would have said he was right, but I didn't.