Official Talk Leica thread

Mr Perceptive said:
An affordable Leica?

ideas.lego.com

Leica M Series

Majestic, Classical, Masterpiece. This is Leica M series cameras. Leica is the first company which made small portable camera compatible with ...
ideas.lego.com ideas.lego.com
Click to expand...

knowing Lego prices in Portugal it’s probably as much as a tatty secondhand M8 :D
 
Hi, the view across the valley from my house ... (M9 - LEITZ Tele-Elmarit-M 2,8/90 f 8 ; crops):


L1005528_DxO-L901-8-c.jpg



L1005528_DxO-L901-8-cl.jpg



L1005528_DxO-L901-8-cr.jpg



(Not bad for a lens, which is over 30 years old. I set the sliders in DxO in "SONY-mode" (contrast +50%, microcontrast max) ... )
 

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Hi, spot the differences ... (M9 - Summarit 2,5/50 - VOIGTLÄNDER Apo-Lanthar 2/50 , f 8 ; crops) :



L1023942_DxO-1-8-c.jpg



L1005545_DxO-2-8-c.jpg


(I observed ceteris paribus here. So differences are not "experimenter-induced" ... )
 
Adzman808 said:
I can’t begin to guess that, well I can it’s 50/50! But I can only guess
Click to expand...

Hi, this means that the lenses perform equally - in everyday life. At f8 lenses at a certain quality level can't be distinguished.

Maybe, the differences are clearer wide open. We shall see ... ---

Something healthy ... (M9 - Summarit 2,5/50 - f 2,5) :



L1005532_DxO-L50s-25.jpg
 
Hi, spot the differences round 2 ... (M9 - Summarit 2,5/50 - VOIGTLÄNDER Apo-Lanthar 2/50 , f 2,5 ; crops) :


L1023946_DxO-v-2-c.jpg



L1005547_DxO-v1-cc.jpg
 
justpix said:
Hi, spot the differences round 2 ... (M9 - Summarit 2,5/50 - VOIGTLÄNDER Apo-Lanthar 2/50 , f 2,5 ; crops) :
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There's a very noticeable difference at that aperture - the first one is much clearer, sharper and better contrast than the second.
 
magicolor1 said:
There's a very noticeable difference at that aperture - the first one is much clearer, sharper and better contrast than the second.
Click to expand...

Hi, let's take a closer look ... . Spot the differences final round ... (M9 - Summarit 2,5/50 - VOIGTLÄNDER Apo-Lanthar 2/50 , f 2,5 ; crops) :

#1:
L1005547_DxO-1-cr.jpg



#2:
L1023946_DxO-2-cr.jpg



#1:
L1005547_DxO-v1-cl.jpg



#2:
L1023946_DxO-2-cl.jpg


These crops show differences more clearly. #1 is the Summarit, #2 the Apo-Lanthar. All crops were taken from this full view :


L1005547_DxO-L50s-25-8.jpg



Which means, that the differences will be more pronounced if one went to the outer corners.
 
GAS

Gear acquisition syndrome

Greatly accelerated stupidity

Greedy Adam silliness

Whatever...

Sometimes things come together

IMG_20210523_084055.jpg

First impressions to follow...
 
Righty!

First day with the M10.

(I just couldn't help myself, the local store got one that was 'factory refurbished' at a price that merely gave me a nose bleed, not the usual nose AND ear bleeds)

I'm try and keep this short, but I'll fail.

My opinions and usage of cameras changes over time and I'm only 190 shots and a day into M10 ownership.

But what the hell, I often feel like I'm chatting to two or three of my mates in the pub when I post here.

Here's my initial thoughts.

Build, has this strange feeling of being very, very well built yet a little tinny at the same time, WTF Adam?

Well (in digital M terms) it feels TINY, it's like I how remember the fuji X100 feeling (it's bigger than the fuji though obviously), because it weighs not that much less than the M240, and still a bit more than the M9, this makes it feel very dense and solid. (Because it's physically smaller)

The shutter feels a bit tinny, hollow and 'digital camera' sounding compared to my M9/240 though. Meh don't care, it's quiet enough though

Dials and controls and stuff.

Same as the other Ms, Oh yeah has an ISO dial. Stupidly stiff to lift up. I might never have to cut my thumbnail again!

Less is more :ROFLMAO:

They've done away with that really clucking annoying thing the M240 did, when in playback mode the info button went image review / image review + histogram / image review + blinkies / image review thumbnail + info. Which bugged me as you had to cycle through them all too get back to the start.

The M10 has two playback views, image review / image review +info and histogram and blinkies

Battery life

I was a bit concerned about this, as the M240 goes forever on a battery and the M9 is so slow that that you don't take enough shots to run the battery out quickly.. it's taken 190 shots now and says 55% remaining. I'll take that. (I'm not one for chimping that much, occasional live view, I don't have the EVF, I've no intention of installing the mobile app to talk to my camera from my phone - but that usage was also new camera menu trawl and set up)

IQ compared to the M240

Noticeably better. Colour palette cut from the same cloth maybe... but more vibrant images, they have more depth than the 240 but most importantly as a 240 upgrade

compare.JPG
This much shadow lift can be hard on the 240

Images seem to need less work than the 240 in LR

IQ compared to the M9

M9 will always be special. End of. M10 has some charm though... bit like VSCO or someone made an M9 preset :D

We'll have to come back to this... at the moment my 10 files look like 240 ones cos I'm PP'ing them similarly. I need time here to find my way...

The adobe standard profile is a bit of a dark horse... straight out of the gate it's their usual bland as water look, but add a little contrast, maybes +5 or 10 of sat and it really sings.

Leica embedded profile is more immediate, but (as usual) dicey away from sunlight and with a ton of orange in it

(I've got into making my own profiles lately, so I'll probably stick to keep developing that)

ISO

Nothing to see here for users of other brands.

For us digital M shooters... holy cow! 6400 seems perfectly usable (that's labelled 'push' on the 240)

Nice to have 100 too, apparently it's actually a pull (true base being 150ish), didn't notice any issues using 100 today, besides it's never a great idea to clip highlights on a digital

I'm a happy man :cool:

Here's a few snaps, was going to be more but the forum says they're too large!



N1000044.LR.jpg



N1000152.LR.jpg


N1000155.LR.jpg
 
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Congrats!
Adzman808 said:
GAS

Gear acquisition syndrome

Greatly accelerated stupidity

Greedy Adam silliness

Whatever...

Sometimes things come together
Click to expand...
All the above?

I found it better than the m240 especially in iso (bit bandy at 50k)
Battery life sucks *

* I use evf! Without - probably 500-600 shots.. with between 200-300 (depending if you forget you left it on and evf eating the view).

Bonus parts.. LV/EVF - you can use the control on the back to move the circle and the peek button on the front to peek in (press once and roll the dial under the thumb to the right). Useful for those 'must be in focus' times....

I must make a profile in lr - I almost always do the same things for most pics as a base...

again - congrats!
 
ecniv said:
Congrats!

All the above?

I found it better than the m240 especially in iso (bit bandy at 50k)
Battery life sucks *

* I use evf! Without - probably 500-600 shots.. with between 200-300 (depending if you forget you left it on and evf eating the view).

Bonus parts.. LV/EVF - you can use the control on the back to move the circle and the peek button on the front to peek in (press once and roll the dial under the thumb to the right). Useful for those 'must be in focus' times....

I must make a profile in lr - I almost always do the same things for most pics as a base...

again - congrats!
Click to expand...

I find if I truly feel that I like what I bought I never think about what it cost... time will tell

I paid extra to get the EVF with my 240, I've been glad of it when I've used it, but I've gone weeks and weeks without using it (months in fact).

I'm sure I'll see the M10 EVF 'cheap' on eBay or whatever and end up getting it, but it's so expensive IMO so I'm no rush

I found the 'move the focus point around' thing. Is it just me or is there no way to make it go back to the centre?

I made profile creation my lockdown project.

DPR has properly lit studio scenes (for the M10) showing the color checker, but frankly what the x-rite software makes from it is ghastly

I've had a good look at my pics tonight and the M10 has got some lovely colour going on in there, I quickly knocked up a profile based on 'embedded' that has the orange turned right down and a custom tone curve and but I might just leave that there

adobe gets a lot of stick for their colours from some places (to be fair yellow grass, purple skies.. yuck) but their profile work is very strong - color matrices, forward matrices, two hue sat tables and a LUT, it's very hard to make all of these things at home and all of those things function to make a robust profile, eg so that colours don't bleed or that (say) red doesn't get really pink long before it clips...

So I might end up basing any work I do on the adobe profile, but we'll see... far too easy to fall into a rabbit hole, get obsessed, spend ages working on it and really p*** off the other half (ask me how I know that!!!)
 
That looks like my old cat* Luna :)

(*Luna's fine it's just that she doesn't live with me any more)
 
Adzman808 said:
Lovely colours in those Immo
Click to expand...

Hi, thank you, Adam, :) .

Several factors here: the M9 CCD sensor, the 21 Elmarit, and its Leica UVa filter. I bought the Elmarit many years ago used. It was and is my most expensive M mount lens,
and wanting to protect it, I fitted this Leica UVa filter ... ---

In Mannheim/D ... (M9 - Elmarit 2,8/21 asph. f 5,6 ; crop) :


L1005591_DxO-L21-c.jpg
 

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justpix said:
Hi, thank you, Adam, :) .

Several factors here: the M9 CCD sensor, the 21 Elmarit, and its Leica UVa filter. I bought the Elmarit many years ago used. It was and is my most expensive M mount lens,
and wanting to protect it, I fitted this Leica UVa filter ... ---

In Mannheim/D ... (M9 - Elmarit 2,8/21 asph. f 5,6 ; crop) :
Click to expand...

i have a Leica UVir filter, it’s my most expensive filter :ROFLMAO:

The m9 has a lovely tonality to it.
 
Ok here's a little bit of silliness.

I'm sorry I couldn't help myself

compare-9-10.1.JPG
M10 and M9 adobe standard

compare-9-10.2.JPG
M10 embedded and M9 adobe standard

compare-9-10.2.JPG
M10 and a profile I threw together (work in progress!) and M9 adobe standard

I never expected the M10 to match the M9, despite what some on internet say.

But I expected nicer no that's not fair, easier images to work with that provide colours I like.

and it does

Happy Adam!

Obviously colour science is a real thing (a very complicated thing), but for me personally speaking I want colour alchemy :ROFLMAO: - away from some pretty specific situations - I want colour I like, it doesn't have to be that realistic (just believable)
 

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Adzman808 said:
Righty!

First day with the M10.

(I just couldn't help myself, the local store got one that was 'factory refurbished' at a price that merely gave me a nose bleed, not the usual nose AND ear bleeds)

I'm try and keep this short, but I'll fail.

My opinions and usage of cameras changes over time and I'm only 190 shots and a day into M10 ownership.

But what the hell, I often feel like I'm chatting to two or three of my mates in the pub when I post here.

Here's my initial thoughts.

Build, has this strange feeling of being very, very well built yet a little tinny at the same time, WTF Adam?

Well (in digital M terms) it feels TINY, it's like I how remember the fuji X100 feeling (it's bigger than the fuji though obviously), because it weighs not that much less than the M240, and still a bit more than the M9, this makes it feel very dense and solid. (Because it's physically smaller)

The shutter feels a bit tinny, hollow and 'digital camera' sounding compared to my M9/240 though. Meh don't care, it's quiet enough though

Dials and controls and stuff.

Same as the other Ms, Oh yeah has an ISO dial. Stupidly stiff to lift up. I might never have to cut my thumbnail again!

Less is more :ROFLMAO:

They've done away with that really clucking annoying thing the M240 did, when in playback mode the info button went image review / image review + histogram / image review + blinkies / image review thumbnail + info. Which bugged me as you had to cycle through them all too get back to the start.

The M10 has two playback views, image review / image review +info and histogram and blinkies

Battery life

I was a bit concerned about this, as the M240 goes forever on a battery and the M9 is so slow that that you don't take enough shots to run the battery out quickly.. it's taken 190 shots now and says 55% remaining. I'll take that. (I'm not one for chimping that much, occasional live view, I don't have the EVF, I've no intention of installing the mobile app to talk to my camera from my phone - but that usage was also new camera menu trawl and set up)

IQ compared to the M240

Noticeably better. Colour palette cut from the same cloth maybe... but more vibrant images, they have more depth than the 240 but most importantly as a 240 upgrade

View attachment 319346
This much shadow lift can be hard on the 240

Images seem to need less work than the 240 in LR

IQ compared to the M9

M9 will always be special. End of. M10 has some charm though... bit like VSCO or someone made an M9 preset :D

We'll have to come back to this... at the moment my 10 files look like 240 ones cos I'm PP'ing them similarly. I need time here to find my way...

The adobe standard profile is a bit of a dark horse... straight out of the gate it's their usual bland as water look, but add a little contrast, maybes +5 or 10 of sat and it really sings.

Leica embedded profile is more immediate, but (as usual) dicey away from sunlight and with a ton of orange in it

(I've got into making my own profiles lately, so I'll probably stick to keep developing that)

ISO

Nothing to see here for users of other brands.

For us digital M shooters... holy cow! 6400 seems perfectly usable (that's labelled 'push' on the 240)

Nice to have 100 too, apparently it's actually a pull (true base being 150ish), didn't notice any issues using 100 today, besides it's never a great idea to clip highlights on a digital

I'm a happy man :cool:

Here's a few snaps, was going to be more but the forum says they're too large!



View attachment 319347



View attachment 319348


View attachment 319349
Click to expand...
Congrats man. About time :ROFLMAO:

Just watch those highlights, better to under expose and push those shadows... M10 easily blows out highlights.

From what I’ve read, better to use ISO200 than drop to 100. Jono Slack did a lot of testing and has written quite a bit on using 200 rather than 100.

Must dust mine down and shoot more with it. Haven’t used it much for the past few weeks.
 
wibbly said:
Congrats man. About time :ROFLMAO:

Just watch those highlights, better to under expose and push those shadows... M10 easily blows out highlights.

From what I’ve read, better to use ISO200 than drop to 100. Jono Slack did a lot of testing and has written quite a bit on using 200 rather than 100.

Must dust mine down and shoot more with it. Haven’t used it much for the past few weeks.
Click to expand...

Cheers! Thanks very much!

I saw the whole iso 100-200 thing... iirc (if...) Andy over on LCF did some tests and said that 200 recovers highlights better, but 100 has cleaner shadows if you push them...

The whole thing's daft IMHO... if a camera has a base ISO of 157 (or whatever) then just make that the base ISO, write "100" on the dial or in the menu, so when we add a stop it says 200 even if really it's 314 :-D

ISO is such an arbitrary concept in digital anyway, the ISO menu could just read 1, 2, 3 etc or have pictures... Hmmm cat has to slow a shutter speed I'll move the dial round to dog

It's just a series of makers which we use to double or halve a value - it's doesn't have to be numeric - the senor's real base iso is fixed anyway, and (according to DxO tests) is seldom exactly what it says on the dial

Anways

I've been working too: critical highlights = 100 and -0.7EV. Need more SS, 200 and -0.3EV. Need a critical exposure = make an effort to get the exposure right.

So far all the M10 improvements have been as good as expected (thinner, nicer in the hand, better OVF etc) but the files are lovely to work with.

Spiritually (sic) they're like M9 files, a little bit of work and they really sing.

Sure they're clean and digital in comparison to the M9, and the 240 (I expected that) but they're punchy and have good colour, and I'm happy with skin tones. That's pretty much all I ask for in a camera, and all cameras can do that... it's just about how much work it takes to get there, with as little work as possible being my preference!
 
Adzman808 said:
Cheers! Thanks very much!

I saw the whole iso 100-200 thing... iirc (if...) Andy over on LCF did some tests and said that 200 recovers highlights better, but 100 has cleaner shadows if you push them...

The whole thing's daft IMHO... if a camera has a base ISO of 157 (or whatever) then just make that the base ISO, write "100" on the dial or in the menu, so when we add a stop it says 200 even if really it's 314 :-D

ISO is such an arbitrary concept in digital anyway, the ISO menu could just read 1, 2, 3 etc or have pictures... Hmmm cat has to slow a shutter speed I'll move the dial round to dog

It's just a series of makers which we use to double or halve a value - it's doesn't have to be numeric - the senor's real base iso is fixed anyway, and (according to DxO tests) is seldom exactly what it says on the dial

Anways

I've been working too: critical highlights = 100 and -0.7EV. Need more SS, 200 and -0.3EV. Need a critical exposure = make an effort to get the exposure right.

So far all the M10 improvements have been as good as expected (thinner, nicer in the hand, better OVF etc) but the files are lovely to work with.

Spiritually (sic) they're like M9 files, a little bit of work and they really sing.

Sure they're clean and digital in comparison to the M9, and the 240 (I expected that) but they're punchy and have good colour, and I'm happy with skin tones. That's pretty much all I ask for in a camera, and all cameras can do that... it's just about how much work it takes to get there, with as little work as possible being my preference!
Click to expand...

Yep, always been happy with the output. A bit of contrast and a dollop of clarity and the RAW files sing nicely.

Mine came with the thumb grip (yep, very pricey) but it really does improve the balance of the camera.
 
wibbly said:
Mine came with the thumb grip (yep, very pricey) but it really does improve the balance of the camera.
Click to expand...

I had one of those in stock (I got an M10 one for the M9, when I couldn't find an m9 one) and I actually took it off the M10 as I found I didn't need it

I really want the handgrip, but I'll have to wait for a bargain secondhand one as there's no way I'm buying one of those at anything resembling retail (even the Leica store guy said that it was stupidly priced for what it is)
 
Adzman808 said:
I had one of those in stock (I got an M10 one for the M9, when I couldn't find an m9 one) and I actually took it off the M10 as I found I didn't need it

I really want the handgrip, but I'll have to wait for a bargain secondhand one as there's no way I'm buying one of those at anything resembling retail (even the Leica store guy said that it was stupidly priced for what it is)
Click to expand...
Funnily enough I’ve never fancied the handgrip. But I do like the thumb grip :ROFLMAO:
 
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