Panamoz - am I right to be concerned about my order?

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Martin
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After much deliberation I went ahead and ordered a Canon R5 with EF-EOS R control ring adaptor from Panamoz, this is my first grey purchase and was lured by the £1057.00 saving over buying from one of the known UK dealers. A Mastercard was used for payment but I have now realised that as their payment system is through PayPal I have now lost the credit card 'section 75' security. Can anyone reassure me that Panamoz are ok to deal with and that their backup warranty is as good as it appears, as I am feeling decidedly edgy about the deal!
 
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Ant
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After much deliberation I went ahead and ordered a Canon R5 with EF-EOS R control ring adaptor from Panamoz, this is my first grey purchase and was lured by the £1057.00 saving over buying from one of the known UK dealers. A Mastercard was used for payment but I have now realised that as their payment system is through PayPal I have now lost the credit card 'section 75' security. Can anyone reassure me that Panamoz are ok to deal with and that their backup warranty is as good as it appears, as I am feeling decidedly edgy about the deal!
Relax, Panamoz have pretty much the best reputation and warranty of all the grey market dealers.
 
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Dan
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I spent over £12k with them the other week, got all my goods fine.

Tina is very responsive and helpful on e-mail.

Ordered with them in the past, all good.. no sweat!
 
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Dan
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As for warranty, my Canon 5DM3 failed back in 2014 - I contacted Panamoz who told me to send it to Canon for repair and they covered the repair bill.
 
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martin_h
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Martin
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Thanks for the replies, it's very reassuring to hear. Just had my tracking number sent so that's a good start :)
 
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Panamoz are excellent and I’ve never had a problem. As others have said I wouldn’t be concerned at all.
 
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If there were any VAT or import charge issues (not saying there is or isn’t) with the likes of Panamoz, efinity etc HMRC wouldn’t have a hard time finding potential investigations. All they would need to do is post a thread on TP and people would only be too happy to tell them! Talk about potentially incriminating yourself:exit:
 
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James
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Got to love that fact you are purchasing a grey import to save £1k by avoiding paying the associated costs occurred by an official importer then panicking that you wont have credit card protection.
 
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Martin
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Many, many years ago I was tempted to buy from a grey importer, saving quite a bit of money in the process, but I never did because I didn't trust the fact that there would be no manufacturers warranty, there might be problems with VAT, and a general distrust of anything that seems too good to be true. Now I still hold by that mantra and I wouldn't buy from Panamoz or any other grey importer but one thing that has surprised me over the years is that Panamoz are still functioning, their fanbase grows year on year and they seem to be very, very good at their job. It's not for me but if you are prepared to accept the seemingly low risk with this company, it does appear to be one of the best (he says rather grudgingly :) ).
 
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Brian
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I find it interesting that the most common reason people have for not buying "grey" is the lack of manufacturers warranty.
Panamoz offer a three year warranty which is considerably better than any local "manufacturer" warranty, and probably reflects the reliability of modern photographic equipment.

It would be interesting to know how many people have actually made a successful claim under their UK "manufacturers warranty."

My only concern with Panamoz is that a lens I am looking at is currently more expensive from them than I can buy it retail in the UK.
 
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Rob
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I find it interesting that the most common reason people have for not buying "grey" is the lack of manufacturers warranty.
Panamoz offer a three year warranty which is considerably better than any local "manufacturer" warranty, and probably reflects the reliability of modern photographic equipment.
Many UK sourced lenses are 1 year warranty but there are exceptions. I recently bought a Tamron lens which has a 5 year manufacturers warranty. It was £10 cheaper from Amazon UK than Panamoz too so buying grey isn’t always cheaper. One thing I’ve started to notice is Panamozs price often is slightly closer to UK price than say efinity. I wonder if that’s because of the warranty?
 
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It would be interesting to know how many people have actually made a successful claim under their UK "manufacturers warranty."
Normally you wouldn't try to claim on it. Your first call would be to the retailer, but if there's a problem with that (maybe you bought something from Debenhams...) you've got the manufacturer's warranty to fall back on. If a grey importer stops trading, you are usually on your own.
 

nandbytes

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Many UK sourced lenses are 1 year warranty but there are exceptions. I recently bought a Tamron lens which has a 5 year manufacturers warranty. It was £10 cheaper from Amazon UK than Panamoz too so buying grey isn’t always cheaper. One thing I’ve started to notice is Panamozs price often is slightly closer to UK price than say efinity. I wonder if that’s because of the warranty?
sigma do 3 years, sony gives free extended 2 years with most purchases. Not sure about other manufacturers.
 

nandbytes

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Normally you wouldn't try to claim on it. Your first call would be to the retailer, but if there's a problem with that (maybe you bought something from Debenhams...) you've got the manufacturer's warranty to fall back on. If a grey importer stops trading, you are usually on your own.
still not sure if section 75 provides any protection.... I am guessing not?
panamoz has been operating for a while, I'd be surprised if they packed up shop now. but you never know I guess.
 

Craig1912

Commodus
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Just because they use PayPal to handle your credit card payment doesn’t mean you lose the credit card protection.
 

Craig1912

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aren’t Panamoz using PayPal as a traditional payment processor which means section 75 does apply? Trying to find something definitive but it’s not easy!
edit- found this but don’t know if it applies “However, if you use your credit card to pay for something through PayPal and the funds go direct to the seller, then as long as the company you're buying from has a 'Commercial Entity Agreement' with PayPal you may still be able to claim against your credit card company under Section 75 for any misrepresentation or breach of contract by the seller.“
 
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martin_h
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Martin
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Previous experience of making a purchase via PayPal (a gift voucher for a flight experience from a company that went under before being able to use the voucher) using MasterCard highlighted the credit card company will not entertain any claims as the payment was made via a third party and not direct to the seller.
 
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I felt the same originally but there are so many great reviews on here and other forums (there are others?) that I ordered £4k of Sony gear a month ago and received it all two weeks later. I think most people receive their stuff quicker than that, but this was over Easter weekend and I did request something not listed on their website so maybe they didn't have it in stock.
 
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Got to love that fact you are purchasing a grey import to save £1k by avoiding paying the associated costs occurred by an official importer then panicking that you wont have credit card protection.
I think credit card protection covers you just fine? I had ordered something about 2 years ago from them (not Panamoz, some other dodgy one). Didn't turn up after about 2 months or so, and AMEX refunded very quickly..
 
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Previous experience of making a purchase via PayPal (a gift voucher for a flight experience from a company that went under before being able to use the voucher) using MasterCard highlighted the credit card company will not entertain any claims as the payment was made via a third party and not direct to the seller.
yes. I am in a similar predicament on something else - with this being ebay x paypal, and checking out with my credit card via paypal. Rookie error. Never mind the other big one; 2020 trips to LA and FL booked with AIRBNB on AMEX, but coudn't go as the airplanes were cancelled; Sure, should be covered... but oh no. AMEX are refusing! And this is still going on.....
 
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martin_h
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Martin
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Just to update my unfounded concerns! Camera arrived today which is 5 working days from ordering. It did go on a merry journey having been at Stanstead before going back to Frankfurt and then back to the Uk courtesy of FedX. It should have been in my hands a day earlier, but for some reason the delivery driver decided to say he attempted delivery but no one was at home, which is rather odd as I’m sure I was sat in my home office all day! Happy days :)
 
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Just to update my unfounded concerns! Camera arrived today which is 5 working days from ordering. It did go on a merry journey having been at Stanstead before going back to Frankfurt and then back to the Uk courtesy of FedX. It should have been in my hands a day earlier, but for some reason the delivery driver decided to say he attempted delivery but no one was at home, which is rather odd as I’m sure I was sat in my home office all day! Happy days :)
Exactly the same happened to me. I think I was the delivery driver’s last port of call and he ran out of time. It was delivered at 0830 the next morning. He said they tried to deliver and the premises were closed.... I was in and waiting...
 

TG.

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Tel
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Never had a problem with Panamoz, in fact I would use them over a UK based company, just for their integrity to there warranty, which is something UK companies could certainly learn from, I have also registered my cameras on the Nikon website, so obviously Nikon recognise the serial numbers, so nothing dodgy going on here, it does seem that a certain number of people think that grey imports are made in some secret, Canon/Nikon/Sony/ factory in China or the far east, mimicking original manufactures products, but fortunately this isn't true.

As regards them honoring there warranties, I have not had that problem myself, but from what I understand there are people here who have had reason to make a claim, and with very favourable results.
 
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nandbytes

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If you use PayPal, you would not get Section 75 protection but if you use your credit card and the retailer uses PayPal that should not void your protection.
are you protected even if the seller is a grey market seller?

edit:
Looks like using PayPal credit gives you the best of both worlds
 
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6,364
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Rob
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I have also registered my cameras on the Nikon website, so obviously Nikon recognise the serial numbers, so nothing dodgy going on here
You can put anything in the Nikon registration website and it will be accepted. It doesn’t check a database of Nikon serial numbers, just captures the date you entered that product for the warranty. you’d still need proof of purchase to claim a warranty.

Example of a registered D850 with a made up serial number that was accepted.

85496359-4E95-42D6-ACF8-BDC71DEE57DD.jpeg
 
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TG.

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Tel
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You can put anything in the Nikon registration website and it will be accepted. It doesn’t check a database of Nikon serial numbers, just captures the date you entered that product for the warranty. you’d still need proof of purchase to claim a warranty.

Example of a registered D850 with a made up serial number that was accepted.

View attachment 318003
I guess that's quite a bad error on Nikons part then, although I wouldn't be going to Nikon for warranty purposes, I would be going back to Panamoz, who would sort it out there end.
 
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Mikey
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I guess that's quite a bad error on Nikons part then, although I wouldn't be going to Nikon for warranty purposes, I would be going back to Panamoz, who would sort it out there end.
You can still register products with Canon bought through Panamoz absolutely fine. They won't honour the warranty but you can still link the kit to your account but they do seem to double check the serial number.
 
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Rob
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I guess that's quite a bad error on Nikons part then, although I wouldn't be going to Nikon for warranty purposes, I would be going back to Panamoz, who would sort it out there end.
It’s not an error on Nikon’s part that is not checking for a valid serial number. A website which has a live serial number database is going to cost a lot more to run than a basic website with open data fields. Nikon don’t need to check it’s a valid serial number at that point. They just want to register the start of the UK warranty. Those checks happen at warranty claim point.
 
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Rob
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You can still register products with Canon bought through Panamoz absolutely fine. They won't honour the warranty but you can still link the kit to your account but they do seem to double check the serial number.
I’m wonder if canon have data entry field format filter ie if their serial number is if the serial number is known to be 8 digits long and you enter 7 digits it’s not accepted. Format filters help to cut down typos or missing digits but aren’t necessarily checking against a database.

Has anyone thought of the cost it would be to run a serial number database in the public domain? what benefit is there for the manufacture to do this?

I can’t think of any reason why a company would want a serial number database in the public domain. Just imagine a bot running multiple serial variations through the website trying to calculate valid serial numbers so they can clone products.
 
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Mikey
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I’m wonder if canon have data entry field format filter ie if their serial number is if the serial number is known to be 8 digits long and you enter 7 digits it’s not accepted. Format filters help to cut down typos or missing digits but aren’t necessarily checking against a database.

Has anyone thought of the cost it would be to run a serial number database in the public domain? what benefit is there for the manufacture to do this?

I can’t think of any reason why a company would want a serial number database in the public domain. Just imagine a bot running multiple serial variations through the website trying to calculate valid serial numbers so they can clone products.
You're right, I thought it selected the product based on the serial number you put in, turns out it's the other way round. You could stop a bot though from the brute force approach.
 
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