Printing.....getting a colour cast (Noob stuff, I know!)

Marcel

Marcel

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Marcel
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Just printing some photos off for my wife for her college course that I took.
Anyway, I'm getting a terrible cast on them, her skin looks very red...like she's just done a full marathon...

Here's a screenshot of me holding up the photo to my mac screen. Naturally this isn't a foolproof way of doing it, but it's just to give you an example of the difference. It doesnt look too bad in the screenshot, but it's much worse in print.

danielle_red_cast-20090417-170445.jpg

I do understand the one on the right is very warm. (I have a very 'warm' living room).

The photo was shot in AdobeRGB (RAW) and processed through lightroom, then exported as a TIFF to Photoshop CS4, on my calibrated iMac.
(Thats the image you see on the right).
Then sent to my Canon ip4300, using the following photoshop options

Let Printer handle colours (Selected profile Canon SP2)
Let Photoshop handle colours
No Colour management

And they all come out pretty much the same (very harsh red cast).
I've tried using the proof view in Photoshop, selecting the Canon SP2 profile and it changes but only a bit of brightness, no colour change.
I'm printing on Asda 6x4 glossy inkjet photo paper btw.
Any thoughts where Im going wrong? I very very rarely print out my photos so never normally have to deal with this :$
 
It could be the quality at which you are printing - Normally there is three settings, select Highest.

Another problem could be the paper you are using. Asda sell food, not photographic paper :) I use HP on a Canon printer and get superb prints at 7x5.
 
from what i can tell from the images

they both have a similar amount of red in them

i think lack of yellow in the left hand image could be your problem
 
Glossy screens are not good for getting accurate colours. Have you tried an sRGB print? Or different paper?
 
Sorry I meant to say, the actual printed image does look much more red in the flesh, so to speak.....just that the iphone photo doesn't bring it out very well. :$

I printed a passport style photo the other week and it was very similar (very red / pink)...I just dragged a couple of quick tweak sliders in the drivers to get a 'roughly ok' print as I was in a rush.
 
if it's not too late, humbly suggest you stick to sRGB thoughout :rules:
penny to a pound that's the cause of your "little local difficulty"

PS your wife looks very pretty btw!
 
Snot my wife, it's my neice :) My wife did the hair and dressing up :p
 
For "usually" foolproof results without any messing about, assuming your monitor is reasonable well calibrated - sRGB in the camera, printer manufacturers ink, printer manufacturers paper. The only non-manufacturer paper that I use is Ilford Gallerie, which is good stuff, but I think none smaller than A4.
 
I've had problems in past printing at home and found out Photoshop was converting to RGB, but I was using sRGB when printing :bang:
As suggested above it is worth keeping everything the same. I've also had problems with cheap paper in past and will never use again
 
A few things may be at fault here. First of all, the iMac doesn't have a great monitor so a truly accurate calibration may be hard. What calibrator did you use? What temperature did you calibrate it to? Most monitors have a default of 65k, but i tend to calibrate all the monitors at work to 50k as it is better for soft proofing, and most viewing booths are also set to 50k.

Secondly, do you have a paper profile installed? All papers, inks and printers work together very differently, so in order to achieve accurate, consistant results, you will need a paper profile designed for your printer (with default inks) and the paper you are using. This is why it is often better to use paper from manufacturers such as Ilford, as they have paper profiles downloadable from their website

Once you have a paper profile, go to View>Proof Setup>Custom and choose your paper profile. Then go to View>View Proof. This will then simulate what the printout will look like on the paper. Make sure the photo is in AdobeRGB (people who are saying use sRGB, why are you saying that? You would just be wasting the extended gamut a print can provide. A printer has a much wider gamut than sRGB, and a wider gamut than AdobeRGB so you won't get any gammut clipping like you would if you used AdobeRGB on a computer sceen (Photoshop sorts this problem for you though, being colour managed, so don't worry))

Then go to File>Print with Preview>Colour Management and select;
Colour handling: Let Photoshop Determine Colours
Printer Profile: Select your paper profile (the right one for the paper and printer
Rendering Intent: Perceptual)

Then hit print, and when the print driver options come up, find where to switch off printer colour management (You want photoshop do all the colour management, and for the printer to do as it is told). TIf all that is set up right it should result in an accurate print.

And finally the viewing conditions will play a role in how the print looks, as most inks suffer from metamarism, whereby the colours of the print will shift under different lighting, so ideally you want a lighting booth set to 50k, but a second best option is to use daylight (not tungsten or fluorescent)

Welcome to my world of colour management fun. :)
 
Aye, I doubt I'm going to get profiles for this paper :lol:

Normally when I've printed out before, it's actually quite close (to the naked eye of course), and has never been 'ghastly' out of colour shift.

I thought that this colour matching / profiling lark was to get it spot on, not to get an 'alright' print.
What if I was just a joe off the street who wasn't into photography, and just wanted to print a photo of their kid off for a frame? They wouldn't have a clue what profiling is etc.

Luckily, I don't do any printing of my own photos really, this is just for my wife's college work, and she said she's more than happy with these ones so I don't actually *need* to sort it out now....but I'd like to.
 
Assuming you're printing using a half decent profile for the printer then the likely cause is that the screen is out, not the print. It's a common problem with calibration when the print doesn't match the screen people assume it's the print that's out, not the screen.

I would check the screen calibration and double check the calibrator you're using is compatible with Apple's displays, esp. if it's an LED panel.
 
Marcel said:
I thought that this colour matching / profiling lark was to get it spot on, not to get an 'alright' print.
What if I was just a joe off the street who wasn't into photography, and just wanted to print a photo of their kid off for a frame? They wouldn't have a clue what profiling is etc.
Click to expand...

Joe off the street would NOT be using Adobe RGB Marcel, i never do, i always use sRGB in camera and on the computer, if you use one on the camera and another in the computer they will never match whatever you try.

Check what settings you have on CS4, Open the picture and choose Edit > Colour Settings is it set to sRGB or Adobe RGB ?
 
Convert a frame to sRGB and order a print from DSCL and then compare to your print and the screen, see which it matches and that will tell you if it's your screen, printer profile, or both.
 
DSCL?

I've always shot in aRGB Ian. My whole workflow from camera through LR to PS is aRGB. I didn't have a problem sending a couple of prints to Photobox last year (or my moo cards even).
I've nearly ran out of this paper too :lol:

Tried changing various different options and its occasionally a little better, but completely different to the one onscreen.
 
So who wants to write a tutorial on how to get a print looking like you expect it to?

;)
 
Printing your photos is one of the most problems I get at our camera clubs
1, you must calibrate your monitor.
2, in Photoshop you need to set the correct profile in edit assign profile
3, in your printer panel set Photoshop manage colours.
4, same panel set printer profile to your paper.
5, in rendering try setting this to Perceptual Click print.
5, in your Printer panel you need to TURN OFF colour management (Don’t Colour manage twice) depending on your printer this will be in advances some printer you need to click on ICM and then none different printers is different.
This should now give you the best print
Chaz
 
Marcel said:
DSCL?
Click to expand...

DS Colour Lab in Didsbury Marcel.

Do all my pro printing with them and they are fab.

Just need to make sure all the prints I order are sized correctly for the order, made that mistake once.....and once only. :)
 
I will have converted them to sRGB before sending to Photobox then :) (That was on a different screen too :))
 
RobertP said:
So who wants to write a tutorial on how to get a print looking like you expect it to?

;)
Click to expand...

See my post ;)

Marcel said:
I will have converted them to sRGB before sending to Photobox then :) (That was on a different screen too :))
Click to expand...

Using sRGB or AdobeRGB will not cause a colour cast. At worst it will cause gamut (causing the image to look desaturated) clipping if you use a wide gamut colour space like AdobeRBB or ProPhoto on the computer without running it through a colour managed program. The colour cast will be caused by a bad paper profile (or no profile) or poor monitor calibration.

Edit; There is also a chance that a glogged print head can cause colour casts.
 
Messiah Khan said:
Make sure the photo is in AdobeRGB (people who are saying use sRGB, why are you saying that? You would just be wasting the extended gamut a print can provide. A printer has a much wider gamut than sRGB, and a wider gamut than AdobeRGB so you won't get any gammut clipping like you would if you used AdobeRGB on a computer sceen (Photoshop sorts this problem for you though, being colour managed, so don't worry))
Click to expand...

Messiah Khan said:
See my post ;)

Using sRGB or AdobeRGB will not cause a colour cast. At worst it will cause gamut (causing the image to look desaturated) clipping if you use a wide gamut colour space like AdobeRBB or ProPhoto on the computer without running it through a colour managed program. The colour cast will be caused by a bad paper profile (or no profile) or poor monitor calibration.
Click to expand...

In your first post you ask why we are saying use sRGB, then in the second post you answer the question yourself - the "without running it through a colour managed program" bit. The "Average Marcel On The Street" printing his photos on his £50 home printer isn't interested in "running it through a colour managed program". He wants to see it on his screen, hit that print button, and be satisfied with the results. That's why sRGB is a default setting which satisfies the vast majority of the world's population who have never even heard of the word gamut.

I'm not disrespecting your knowledge of colour management. I've read enough about it to know how involved it is. But people tend to lose sight of the simple needs of "The Average Marcel" who really couldn't give a rat's ass about gamut and wouldn't notice the difference anyway.

I can do no better than to quote somebody famous here who says " If you have to ask should I use AdobeRGB - then you shouldn't be using it".
 
MisterE said:
In your first post you ask why we are saying use sRGB, then in the second post you answer the question yourself - the "without running it through a colour managed program" bit. The "Average Marcel On The Street" printing his photos on his £50 home printer isn't interested in "running it through a colour managed program". He wants to see it on his screen, hit that print button, and be satisfied with the results. That's why sRGB is a default setting which satisfies the vast majority of the world's population who have never even heard of the word gamut.

I'm not disrespecting your knowledge of colour management. I've read enough about it to know how involved it is. But people tend to lose sight of the simple needs of "The Average Marcel" who really couldn't give a rat's ass about gamut and wouldn't notice the difference anyway.

I can do no better than to quote somebody famous here who says " If you have to ask should I use AdobeRGB - then you shouldn't be using it".
Click to expand...

But im not talking about or to "The Average Marcel". Im talking about the Marcel here on TP (who is running it through a colour managed program; Photoshop) and other people visiting a photography enthusiast forum, who surely want to learn more about how to do it right. When I mentioned sRGB I wasn't particulary talking about your post, but people who seem to be suggesting that setting the colour space to sRGB would solve the problem. The problem is a lot more likely to be a poor monitor calibration or incorrect paper profile (Btw, some people seem to suggest the Asda glossy paper may be Fuji paper, so one of their profiles may be worth a shot)
 
Thanks for the replies chaps :)

Well I exhausted my stash of Asda Photo Paper last night (except 2 sheets) so nipped out today and got a pack of Fuji

Now I'm scouring the net for profiles......can I find any? Nope :'(

Printer : Canon ip4300
Paper : FujiFilm Photo Inkjet Paper, 180gsm, Gloss
 
mmcp42 said:
if it's not too late, humbly suggest you stick to sRGB thoughout :rules:
penny to a pound that's the cause of your "little local difficulty"

PS your wife looks very pretty btw!
Click to expand...
I must say I get better results with sRGB but canon is renound for its vibrent reds.
 
Marcel said:
Thanks for the replies chaps :)

Well I exhausted my stash of Asda Photo Paper last night (except 2 sheets) so nipped out today and got a pack of Fuji

Now I'm scouring the net for profiles......can I find any? Nope :'(

Printer : Canon ip4300
Paper : FujiFilm Photo Inkjet Paper, 180gsm, Gloss
Click to expand...

profiles for ilford smooth gloss
 
No joy, cheeks still look like theyve been slapped red raw by the world cheek slapping champion, grrrrrr.

I tried two different profiles from Ilford :

GALERIE > Canon > ip4200 > Smooth Gloss Paper
Inkjet Photo Paper > Canon > ip4300 > Premium Photo Glossy Paper 350gsm

Both gave pretty much the same distinctive red cast.
 
Marcel, just to clarify - how are you calibrating your screen? Can you post the problem shot here?
 
I calibrated it with the eye one.
Will post the shot up when i get home
 
Marcel said:
I calibrated it with the eye one.
Will post the shot up when i get home
Click to expand...

did you get home yet or did I miss that bit?!?

be happy to run off a print if you want to send it
 
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