Rude?

Doesn't smell at all to anosmics!
 
Cobra said:
Absolutely (y)

Within an hour? Its been 5 years I guess I may as well pack up ..
Anyone want any cheap camera gear? :(

TBH I use flickr as a hosting site for posting here and other places, I'm not on any groups nor do I go around "Faving" images.
I do get a few "Faves" mostly from people I don't know and they are hardly ever in the UK either.


They were last seen Monday.
We do get a lot of "One hit wonders" that post, never to be seen again.
I can only imagine that they think this is a FB Clone, going on the fact of a few RTM's, over time where we've had complaints
about the comments on their images, from "Newbies" Largely the complaints are unfounded.
Click to expand...


It simply means Chris that your not using Flickr properly ,it’s simply a larger version of a forum . I have posted on there regularly for a number of years ,have lots of followers some of whom have also become good friends via Flickr.i subscribe to lots of groups on there I.e add my photos as appropriate to the group theme and do my best to comment on others photos time permitting . So yes I get a feeling very quickly if a pic is any good or not ,just because I like it does not make it good ,but lots of likes over a short time period usually indicates it is .. I have several thousand + images on there and in excess of 7 million views so I guess it does work ... for me at least
 
Flicker works exactly as I like it, I simply ise it as a dumping ground to link images too, not really worried about how many favs etc.
 
RedRobin said:
About 5 years ago when I first started wildlife photography my daughter bought me a book '100 Wildlife Tips' by Guy Edwardes. I was wow'd and thought to myself that I would love to aspire to his standard. A couple of years ago I was unexpectedly introduced to him (in a field on Portland) by a mutual good friend and we have become good friends and I have often shot and travelled with him. When he Likes one of my pics I know he means it and it means a lot to me - I only give his a Like if I really do like them and we often comment positively. If he has a criticism he usually offers it to me face-to-face. He has definitely raised my standard.
Click to expand...

I have found that 'socializing' via the web with others whom I don't have a face to face relationship with is very difficult. Whereas with those whom I have or have had an actual 'meet and greet' relationship it is much easier to have and continue the relationship on the web. The problem with 'socializing' on the web is that the interaction is written rather than spoken. Written means it is 'fixed' and right in your face. Spoken words are sort of like the wind - there for a moment then gone and disappeared. Words written are hard to get around or get past when they are negative. This is why I think it is best that written words only are and remain positive. Negativity makes them all the more difficult and harder to deal with. 'Likes' are always positive. Yes, they are shallow. And, by that can be annoying. But, they never represent nor have a negative impact. Strangely, I have found, if you want a response from someone write something very negative and insulting to them. But, write something nice to them and a response is not as certain to follow. People will rise to their own defense more quickly than they will show appreciation. It seems to be simply human nature to do so. For these reasons I tend to 'interact' with others on the web as more an information gathering activity - to learn or glean a different perspective. And, then to think about it while trying to reconcile it with my own. Socializing on the web I have found to be very difficult and fraught with dangerous misinterpretations and misunderstandings that are often unintended. Also, the web is a safe place. Everyone is anonymous here. Face to face is not. So, if you've had a bad day you can 'safely' take it out on someone else. In a face to face situation doing so has far more unpleasant consequences. All this means is that 'socializing' on the web is a very different animal than socializing in the real world. Virtual world social interaction is a very different thing. And, it is important to keep this in mind at all times so that one can keep perspective.
 
Last edited:
What an interesting, and very useful, discussion.

Many years ago when I started using photography forums (fora??) I decided that I would not criticise or offer critique of any photographs posted because I felt, and still do, that I could not comment on something that was better than my effort. I also decided that I would not just say "like" or, that other overused word, "nice" because I felt that it didn't help the originator at all. I have had many, more than expected, "likes" here. I have not always said thank you for them for which I apologise but they are all appreciated. I have on one or two occasions done a block thank you, I hope that was acceptable. I have often wondered what the forum etiquette was in such a situation, but I'm still not clear. May I say "thank you" in advance for any future possible likes!!

Can I do a bit of creeping!!!!! and say thank you to the staff members and other posters for such a knowledgeable and enjoyable forum. I shall now get up my knees!!!!!!!

Apologies for my verbosity.

Howard
 
Tkenny said:
The other side is people are put off by criticism regardless if is constructive and with best intentions, and if you look at the post above (https://www.talkphotography.co.uk/threads/hayling-island-beach.699197/#post-8488284) its a good example of constructive feedback but on neither reply, not a single mention of anything the person has done well or even just ok. I don’t think the people replying are being nasty or anything, actually being helpful showing examples of good shots but it may not come across to that user like that.
Click to expand...

It's difficult in cases like this - perhaps I should have said something like "this photo was well exposed and in focus" - although comments like that seem, to me, insulting. However the OP in that case did open their post with:
I’m not a natural landscape photographer but was at the beach last weekend so gave it a go. Constructive remarks appreciated!
Click to expand...

The implication was that they were an experienced photographer of other things so rather than attempt flattery first, it seemed most appropriate to cut to the chase and offer useful suggestions regarding how one might take pictures if placed in a similar situation again, along with some examples. If they had started with something along the lines of 'be gentle with me' then I might have used a bit more soap.
 
gogleddwr said:
I have had many, more than expected, "likes" here. I have not always said thank you for them
Click to expand...
Generally people don't mention the "likes" some do, but not many, the post was more to do with taking the time to write a reply if someone has taken the time to
write a comment or two to the OP.

gogleddwr said:
I have on one or two occasions done a block thank you,
Click to expand...
A lot of people do, and there is nothing wrong with that, its a response (y)

gogleddwr said:
Can I do a bit of creeping!!!!!
Click to expand...
Of course :D
 
ancient_mariner said:
It's difficult in cases like this - perhaps I should have said something like "this photo was well exposed and in focus" - although comments like that seem, to me, insulting. However the OP in that case did open their post with:


The implication was that they were an experienced photographer of other things so rather than attempt flattery first, it seemed most appropriate to cut to the chase and offer useful suggestions regarding how one might take pictures if placed in a similar situation again, along with some examples. If they had started with something along the lines of 'be gentle with me' then I might have used a bit more soap.
Click to expand...

It is difficult indeed and with the internet you never know how someone will take things or how people will react as you nor they can see body language or hear the tone of voice it’s being said in and will often read it in a tone of voice depending on how they feel. If they are in a bad mood or have seen previous posts that are critical or them or others they can read in a forceful tone etc..

As said, I thought you gave a good response with some examples for the person to look at and certainly not toxic at all.
 
Ed Sutton said:
I thought criticism is the process of giving a critique.
Click to expand...

some folks criticise from a different perspective than those that critique
the former is a hard nosed appraisal
whilst critique is, and should be based on photographic technicalities and in greater depth
like??...whats not to like...you could always fave!! aka flikr like
 
Last edited:
Phil V said:
Why are people discussing criticism - it should be critique.

The fact so many people don’t distinguish between those 2 very different words is half the reason it’s badly given and badly received.

Likewise appraise and praise (for balance).

It’s my pet hate on every platform. :mad:
Click to expand...

yours and mine, my friend...
 
Nostromo said:
So the longer we keep this thread going, the longer the Cobra man has too keep coming back? I might just keep on posting for the sake of it :p
Click to expand...
:LOL: :LOL: :LOL:
 
Ah, I get it now...

(as the Alert doesn't work how some expect it to, is there a quick link to threads the you have posted in and have had replies?)
 
mrtoad said:
some folks criticise from a different perspective than those that critique
the former is a hard nosed appraisal
whilst critique is, and should be based on photographic technicalities and in greater depth
like??...whats not to like...you could always fave!! aka flikr like
Click to expand...
Generally, I have found that few who offer critique truly are skilled in such endeavors. Most who attempt it have little understanding of what they are doing. For example, most critiques begin with the photograph. Actually, skilled critiques begin with the EXIF. The reason one needs to begin with the EXIF is so that an understanding of the photographer can first be gained. Too often a critique operates from the perspective of the experience and capability of the person doing the critiquing. For example, in the extreme, the critique takes the position that if the photographer used a Nikon D850 and was a master of GIMP or PS he should have done this or that. And, to some degree the person critiquing may be just that. But, if the photographer uses a point and shoot, and edits with a simple online editor then the critique becomes more a criticism of him/her rather than a critique of the photograph. Thus in most cases I have found that critiques are often more unintended criticism than critique.
 
Last edited:
West Camera said:
Actually, skilled critiques begin with the EXIF.
Click to expand...

So no meaningful critique was ever given before digital cameras came on the scene? Nobody ever gave critique on the Old Masters Oil Paintings, on Rodin's Sculptures, on Ansel Adams large format film Landscape Images.

Sorry, but if you think it's all about the technical settings, you're sadly misguided, OR you're approaching things from a technically driven mindset which frankly isn't valid for a great deal of more aesthetic and artistic photographic endeavours.
 
West Camera said:
The reason one needs to begin with the EXIF is so that an understanding of the photographer can first be gained. Too often a critique operates from the perspective of the experience and capability of the person doing the critiquing.
Click to expand...
Irrespective of how a photograph was made, and sometimes also despite the intention and skill or lack of it by the photographer, a photograph is a cultural object and may be judged on that basis. Thus sensibly it is first and foremost the photograph that is assessed, not the photographer.

The strengths and weaknesses and meaning of the image can be discussed without getting mired in the technical. If the value of images depended on technique alone, it would be a sterile circumstance.
 
Last edited:
West Camera said:
Generally, I have found that few who offer critique truly are skilled in such endeavors. Most who attempt it have little understanding of what they are doing.
Click to expand...


West Camera said:
For example, most critiques begin with the photograph. Actually, skilled critiques begin with the EXIF. The reason one needs to begin with the EXIF is so that an understanding of the photographer can first be gained. Too often a critique operates from the perspective of the experience and capability of the person doing the critiquing. For example, in the extreme, the critique takes the position that if the photographer used a Nikon D850 and was a master of GIMP or PS he should have done this or that. And, to some degree the person critiquing may be just that. But, if the photographer uses a point and shoot, and edits with a simple online editor then the critique becomes more a criticism of him/her rather than a critique of the photograph. Thus in most cases I have found that critiques are often more unintended criticism than critique.
Click to expand...

:oops: :$
 
Pound Coin said:
Ah, I get it now...

(as the Alert doesn't work how some expect it to, is there a quick link to threads the you have posted in and have had replies?)
Click to expand...

.... It's a two-step action but see if going under your name in the page header to your Preferences > Latest Activity suits you better. It does a search and presents you with a list of your most recent posts everywhere on TP.

Otherwise, if your main wish is to see what replies there have been, select Watch Thread and set your Preferences to receive email notifications. But this doesn't of course inform you whether anyone has directly replied to you by quoting your post.

I can see the actual replies in my email notifications and consequently not bother to link onto the TP page if I don't want to reply or comment.

You possibly already know what I have said, but in case you didn't. No harm done, eh?

[You can say Thank You now, or even click me a Like] :D
 
droj said:
Irrespective of how a photograph was made, and sometimes also despite the intention and skill or lack of it by the photographer, a photograph is a cultural object and may be judged on that basis. Thus sensibly it is first and foremost the photograph that is assessed, not the photographer.

The strengths and weaknesses and meaning of the image can be discussed without getting mired in the technical. If the value of images depended on technique alone, it would be a sterile circumstance.
Click to expand...

.... I don't understand what you mean when you say "a photograph is a cultural object". It need not have anything to do whatsoever with a current society trend.

Surely the photographer is assessed? Afterall, as in my signature quoting Ansel Adams : "The camera takes the photo, but the photographer makes the photo".

Hence the photograph or image is a reflection of the photographer's expression of a subject and his/her skills in achieving what they wanted to express and share. It is all integrated in my opinion.
 
RedRobin said:
It need not have anything to do whatsoever with a current society trend.
Click to expand...
Who mentioned trends? The presence of culture is ubiquitous throughout civilsation.

Ansel was a control freak. Photos can be and are made by anybody.

Yes it's all integrated, somehow, but the quantities of the components varies. Sometimes skill can be almost completely missing and the image is more or less an accident, but it may still have cultural meaning - and communicate something. There's a huge spectrum of possibilities. And we should be free enough to be able to embrace accident. Ask any artist.
 
droj said:
Ansel was a control freak. Photos can be and are made by anybody.
Click to expand...
:runaway:

You'll be found at the bottom of a lake, next to a mountain and weighed down by point and shoot digicams. :LOL:
 
RedRobin said:
.... It's a two-step action but see if going under your name in the page header to your Preferences > Latest Activity suits you better. It does a search and presents you with a list of your most recent posts everywhere on TP.

Otherwise, if your main wish is to see what replies there have been, select Watch Thread and set your Preferences to receive email notifications. But this doesn't of course inform you whether anyone has directly replied to you by quoting your post.

I can see the actual replies in my email notifications and consequently not bother to link onto the TP page if I don't want to reply or comment.

You possibly already know what I have said, but in case you didn't. No harm done, eh?

[You can say Thank You now, or even click me a Like] :D
Click to expand...

Hmmm, neither of those gives a list of threads that I have posted in and that have subsequently received replies. The first doesn’t appear to give any indication of new posts to threads I’ve posted in, just to the thread. The second requires the use of a round trip to another application (email client). Whichever, they are both multi step actions, not a bookmarkable link.

If there is a perceived problem with people not returning to threads they have started or posted in, it may be helpful to make it easier for forum users to find those threads.

It was a sensible question, not sure why you’ve added in the bit in bold.
 
droj said:
Who mentioned trends? The presence of culture is ubiquitous throughout civilsation.
Click to expand...

.... I was responding to your use of the word 'culture' which I interpret as meaning the ideas, customs and social behaviour of a society < This is dynamic and changes, hence my use of the word 'trend'.

droj said:
Ansel was a control freak. Photos can be and are made by anybody.
Click to expand...

.... Whether he was or wasn't, how does his words I quoted suggest photographer exclusivity?

droj said:
Yes it's all integrated, somehow, but the quantities of the components varies. Sometimes skill can be almost completely missing and the image is more or less an accident, but it may still have cultural meaning - and communicate something. There's a huge spectrum of possibilities. And we should be free enough to be able to embrace accident. Ask any artist.
Click to expand...

.... I fundamentally agree. But I think that seeing 'cultural meaning' in everything is over thinking it.
 
I'll be honest and say that I rarely give feedback these days, mainly because I only comment on an image if it really strikes me, and most of my own commenting is in the Fuji thread. There are a lot of good street shots in the that thread, but I'm not particularly interested in that genre, so won't comment anyway. I find that even when I do post an image in the photo's section there is little feedback. I do try and respond if I've asked questions (like the one about A3 printers recently), but sometimes the thread has been quiet for 2 weeks then somebody drops a comment in. Thinking about it, that should warrant a response, so I'll try and change my behaviour going forward. (See, even I can learn something new!! :LOL:)

Now, there are a few members on here that I also follow on Facebook, and images there often get some comments, mainly as I'm often on the phone and I find the TP app a bit "clunky".
 
Pound Coin said:
Hmmm, neither of those gives a list of threads that I have posted in and that have subsequently received replies. The first doesn’t appear to give any indication of new posts to threads I’ve posted in, just to the thread. The second requires the use of a round trip to another application (email client). Whichever, they are both multi step actions, not a bookmarkable link.

If there is a perceived problem with people not returning to threads they have started or posted in, it may be helpful to make it easier for forum users to find those threads.
Click to expand...

.... So are you saying that a two-step action is too many steps for you? There is a limit to what any forum software is able to do.

In practice the email route is only one step < Just click the emailed link to the thread. On my Macs I am able to create a folder dedicated to Talk Photography and a Rule which automatically moves incoming emails from TP to that folder. I have created folders for various other regular senders too. Simples.

Pound Coin said:
It was a sensible question, not sure why you’ve added in the bit in bold.
Click to expand...

.... I interpreted it as a sensible question and I was only trying to be helpful by offering you sensible options.

None of my words were written in bold.
 
RedRobin said:
But I think that seeing 'cultural meaning' in everything is over thinking it.
Click to expand...
Everything has a cultural context and identity whether we want it to or not. It's reasonable and valid to pay attention to that dimension - and ought to be enriching?

RedRobin said:
how does his words I quoted suggest photographer exclusivity?
Click to expand...
????
 
If I like something I click a Like/Fave/Smilie and if I particularly like it I'll write a comment saying why I like/love it. I don't give critique unless asked and I never assume it is wanted.

Regarding critiques on TP, I find that too many folks here have a tendency to over think it - Not always but enough to put me off posting my photos on TP unless I really want some particular advice or second opinion. Unfortunately I find that TP is generally not as friendly as Facebook, Instagram or Flickr.
 
droj said:
Everything has a cultural context and identity whether we want it to or not. It's reasonable and valid to pay attention to that dimension - and ought to be enriching?
Click to expand...

.... I don't disagree with you! I'm only saying that I think that cultural context is only one dimension or aspect of photography. I'm afraid that your earlier post suggested to me that you thought it was more important than I happen to think it is.
 
RedRobin said:
.... So are you saying that a two-step action is too many steps for you? There is a limit to what any forum software is able to do.

In practice the email route is only one step < Just click the emailed link to the thread. On my Macs I am able to create a folder dedicated to Talk Photography and a Rule which automatically moves incoming emails from TP to that folder. I have created folders for various other regular senders too. Simples.



.... I interpreted it as a sensible question and I was only trying to be helpful by offering you sensible options.

None of my words were written in bold.
Click to expand...

There you go again with weird sniping. No I am not saying that.

What I am saying is that if the behaviour of posters falls below what might be expected for the smooth interactions on the forum, that if there is a one click or other straightforward way to assist less frequent users then that behaviour may fall more in line with what is optimum.

Saying that posters should return to threads to give thanks, or end threads off, seems fine but not having an easy way to do this doesn’t help. Maybe it is possible with a forum modification?
 
To reinforce what I am saying, on an SMF based forum there are two links under the Profile menu item:

While I was away
These are all the new posts on the forum since my last visit

Replies to me
These are all the threads I have posted in that have replies that I have not read, regardless of whether I have been back to the forum or not.


I have these both bookmarked and therefore have one click actions to get to them.
 
Pound Coin said:
Ah, I get it now...
(as the Alert doesn't work how some expect it to, is there a quick link to threads the you have posted in and have had replies?)
Click to expand...
Robin covered that
Pound Coin said:
Maybe it is possible with a forum modification?
Click to expand...
Who ever designed Xen ( and previously vB, ) obviously thought that the system(s) in place were plenty.
TP Has been going for about 15 years there are over 60,000 members ( granted a small percentage post regularly)
And (iirc) you are only the 2nd person to mention that the current / historic system doesn't suit your needs.
So I doubt there will be a change to it anytime soon.

Cagey75 said:
Good point, I wonder what @Cobra thinks? :thinking:

:wave:
Click to expand...
Keep posting ... its good to talk (y)

RedRobin said:
.
[You can say Thank You now, or even click me a Like] :D
Click to expand...
*LIKE* as it saved me typing all that out

Jelster said:
I the Fuji thread.
Click to expand...
:runaway:
I'm still having nightmares over that!
:D
 
Last edited:
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top