I'd probably argue that ignorance is still in place Rich......I'm 55.............. look what we have lost in my lifetime. Mate on all levels I wish I was wrong but all this seems one ongoing catastrophe to me .................
I hadn't watched the vid last night Rich,seems pretty balanced to me. But maybe the others here haven't seen what corvids are capable of with their own eyes. I don't need info from a country sports channel or a farming channel on what a crow can kill mate I've watched this happen and shed the tears for my cared for and been the one to put the suffering to an end. Hard stuff to be part of Rich I understand how brutal nature is wouldn't have it any other way it doesn't make it easier though!!
A specific example springs to mind Had a pair of carrion crows taking out 3/4 grown domestic ducks,same thing the eyes. Boss shot them. the thing is these birds were what i'd call a rogue,they were displaying a set of behaviours,ie their killing technique not utterly characteristic. We only got the odd one or two doing this, it was incredibly rare when removed the problem stopped, the problem those sheep guys have is their crows like all crows are intelligent so they have learnt this skill from that odd rogue crow and it's turned into a real problem.
Look guys there are bad folks in all forms of life......there are bad wildlife togs bad farmers bad gamekeepers you name any sphere there are wrong un's,sure as black is black.
Jeff as a farmer or keeper I emphatically do not want to kill every predator ,your post is completely unfair well frankly it is simply untrue. On every level the harriers should be left in peace ,it is a scandal plain WRONG no argument there what so ever !! Grouse are a strange one................ I do actually wonder what we would have left population wise without the toffs fetish for shooting them. Sheep grazing has always been the upland alternative use by man and the two don't sit terribly well together: look at the Welsh uplands they really should be smothered in grouse as an example they aren't though!!.
But mate on no level should these BOP's be being slaughtered and in no way am I the same as those guys that kill harriers nor are those farmers in that video. It's like saying cause some moron tog is trampling over a rare bird breeding ground for a pic you and I would do that............................... we bloody wouldn't
Predator control is used by the RSPB by the WWT as it is by farmers and gamekeepers. It should never be about eradication it should be about specific problems and a balance which nature can't really maintain becuase pretty much every thing here is out of kilter. There will always be those who are going to do wrong but it's like us togs some morons just screw things up.......................... and we all get that rap.
i've said this here before I watched a keeper carry 2 tonne of bird food every day through the beast from the east.that bird food wasn't for game it was for the little guys yellow hammers chaffs bramblings et al. I make my hare pics largely at this spot,the wildlife there the sheer numbers and variety top all the surrounding areas only difference is a landowner and keeper that really care. Sure they shoot things and the toffs have their weird country sport thing going which messes most of us up. But they emphatically are not taking out every predator in fact there are more there ( maybe bar charlie fox) but everything else sparrow hawks buzz merlin kite stoat weasel all in good shape. I'd lay a bet that the control of fox numbers sustainably I might add is why I can share all these hare images.
We as a group share one thing a deep love of nature within that we are incredibly passionate , so when we see things like fox hunting or grouse or game hunting it's hard to be dispassionate So I get lumped in with some scum who kills harriers,it should have me spitting fire,but it doesn't becuase I see all side of this and understand why you feel how you do Jeff. The trouble is most of us do not live in the country haven't hatched a bird or pulled a lamb into the world and yet we are so quick to judge those that have. You guys probably haven't watched a carrion taking the eyes out of a 12 week old khaki cambell or been the one to put that bird out of it's suffering how on earth can I convey that to you what it actually feels like
As Rich mentioned at the top all parties need to talk you can't leave out the local farmers if you are going to re introduce an apex predator like an eagle, We need to pull back a bit in how we judge others try and see their world. sometimes it's very hard becuase we are so passionate .
Oh Jeff I completely agree with you re our human breeding and population There is no" perhaps" it is a given and very simply ,it will never happen!! Who makes a choice to have only one child who does that for environmental reasons?? We barely even mention the subject it's our personal children .......................it's never going to happen way too big a sacrifice for a selfish human to make!!
Sorry for the long ramble i'm not ranting just trying to balance things trying to show you guys the farming keepering side with no vested interest in either profession I stick new build houses together for my living ....... really wish I looked after animals again though
stu