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Smoking Ban
- Thread starter cambsno
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- The real Chris
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There is that to be considered.
When people say smokers are a drain on the NHS, it seems it's not true .
ID cards by back door legislation.
Absolutely!
As I said above they missed a trick on the age cut of.
I'm sure that 16 year old's are smoking.
but if they set the date at around 2015 then not many if any 6 year old's would be.
Steep
Nutcrack Rapids
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It may take longer but it will still work. It's a good 'trick' not banning smoking for those who already do but only for those who have not started. Over time the habit will fade away.
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I don't expect anyone to take me seriously not least because cigarette manufacture and sales are legal with a few provisions re sales but if you look at one of the definitions of manslaughter in this country it seems to me that those manufacturing, distributing, advertising and selling tobacco products are guilty of it.
' Conduct..(ie manufacture and sale etc of tobacco products) that was grossly negligent given the risk of death and did kill'. Pretty clear,really.
Some WHO numbers. Tobacco products kill up to half of smokers. That's 8.2 million a year of which 7 million are as a result of direct smoking and 1.2 million through secondary/passive smoking. Half of all children regularly breathe in tobacco smoke- related air in public places and 65,000 a year die as a result of smoke-related illnesses.
WHO state that half of all smokers die. 8.2 million die as a result of directly smoking and 1.2 million as a result of secondary/passive smoking. In. addition trillions of butts are discarded into the enviroment leaching nicotine and heavy metals eventually turning into microplastics and most are now aware of the catastrophic damage they do. It's estimated that only 1/3 are deposited in receptacles.
' Conduct..(ie manufacture and sale etc of tobacco products) that was grossly negligent given the risk of death and did kill'. Pretty clear,really.
Some WHO numbers. Tobacco products kill up to half of smokers. That's 8.2 million a year of which 7 million are as a result of direct smoking and 1.2 million through secondary/passive smoking. Half of all children regularly breathe in tobacco smoke- related air in public places and 65,000 a year die as a result of smoke-related illnesses.
WHO state that half of all smokers die. 8.2 million die as a result of directly smoking and 1.2 million as a result of secondary/passive smoking. In. addition trillions of butts are discarded into the enviroment leaching nicotine and heavy metals eventually turning into microplastics and most are now aware of the catastrophic damage they do. It's estimated that only 1/3 are deposited in receptacles.
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- The real Chris
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Yep my point exactly
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From the web.
In 2020/21, tobacco duty tax receipts in the United Kingdom amounted to approximately 9.96 billion British pounds, compared with 9.29 billion pounds in the previous financial year
How much does smoking affect the NHS?
It is estimated that smoking related health issues are costing the NHS approximately £6 billion per year in hospital admissions, GP consultations and prescriptions, as well as any operations or other treatments needed for smoking-related diseases.
In 2020/21, tax receipts from alcohol duties in the United Kingdom amounted to approximately 12.12 billion British pounds, compared with 12.1 billion in the previous year. Wine duties accounted for the highest share of tax receipts, and amounted to 4.59 billion pounds in 2020/21.
How much does alcohol cost the NHS?
The latest figures estimate that alcohol costs the NHS around £3.5 billion each year,
Perhaps I should quit smoking and take up drinking seems less harmful
.........Drinking seems less harmful because it costs the NHS £3.5 billion a year treating people with alcohol-related illness/injury against £6 billion re tobacco-related illnesses.
Not so fast Mr C....
You'll find that excessive consumption of alcohol costs the nation a great deal more than smoking. The £3.5 billion cost to the NHS is just a small portion of the overall cost.
I can only list some negatives. No doubt there are more.
Domestic violence .Involved in that is physical violence, psychological/emotional assault, sexual assault..includes rape of course. places of safety for mums and children...£16bn a year.
Crime..Costs £11bn a year...Police/fire service..£225 million a year. Courts/prisons £84bn a year
Road accidents involving excess alcohol consumption . 2018 8680 injuries/deaths . 240deaths. 2019 saw a reduction. 7860. ..280 deaths.
Loss of income through unemployment £7.3bn a year. 2.5% of GDP.
Mental welfare problems including self-harm and suicide.
I don't know how the non-financial costs of the effects on those around those involved in any of the above can be calculated. . How do you calculate the emotional cost of a domestic burglary in terms other than financial ? The sometimes negative life-long effects on children caught up in in domestic situations. The burden on family of those disabled as a result of a road accident.
Taking into consideration all the above I think you'd be less of a burden on society by sticking to smoking..
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Not now it doesn't - smoking is banned other than in private places or outside. If a partner allows the other one to smoke in the house and be affected that is down to them. Unlike my younger days of smoky pubs and offices, people are not likely to be be exposed.
OP
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So how do you explain people addicted to heroin or cocaine, or any other drug? They have all been illegal for as far as I can remember, and have been unavailable to people who have never taken it. but we still have hundreds of thousands (or maybe millions) who do partake!
Steep
Nutcrack Rapids
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Totally different level of addiction. Completely different effect and so different reasons for taking them. I genuinely cannot see some shady dealer approaching someone in a club saying wanna drag?
Steep
Nutcrack Rapids
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So the ban works then.
Steep
Nutcrack Rapids
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Update on the data I posted earlier, I said childhood asthma had decreased 18% in one year, it's actually 18% a year for the three years studied.
" A Glasgow University study showed that, before the smoking ban, the number of hospital admissions of children with asthma was increasing on average by five per cent each year in Scotland. In the three years after the ban, admissions decreased 18 per cent per year."
" A Glasgow University study showed that, before the smoking ban, the number of hospital admissions of children with asthma was increasing on average by five per cent each year in Scotland. In the three years after the ban, admissions decreased 18 per cent per year."
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The same Glasgow as this one
Glasgow is center of Scotland’s drug epidemic
Heroin, benzos, cocaine, sometimes all at once. An epidemic of drug-related deaths is sweeping through Scotland, but is being felt most keenly in Glasgow.
www.nzz.ch
Drugs deaths in Scotland soar to record level
Nicola Sturgeon calls figures ‘shameful’ and promises action after 1,339 people killed last year
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That’s great. All done without banning people from smoking.
Gremlin
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I haven't been subjected to smoke fumes for a very long time, don't find it a problem on the very rare occasion
that I do get a quick trail blowing past.
I just wish they would ban vaping in public, that creates far more smoke and people tend to hang around blocking
pavements causing a total fog of it.
I am an ex smoker and do understand how difficult it can be to not smoke, I have even allowed people to smoke in my]car on long journeys as long as the windows can be open
No Government will ever bring in any legislation to control drink, which I find far worse
that I do get a quick trail blowing past.
I just wish they would ban vaping in public, that creates far more smoke and people tend to hang around blocking
pavements causing a total fog of it.
I am an ex smoker and do understand how difficult it can be to not smoke, I have even allowed people to smoke in my]car on long journeys as long as the windows can be open
No Government will ever bring in any legislation to control drink, which I find far worse
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Vaping doesn't create 'smoke' in any way, it creates vapour and is completely harmless to passers by. All you're seeing is a cloud of flavored Vegetable glycerin that's no more harmful than dry ice at a nightclub. Any nicotine that was in the mix gets absorbed instantly and vapour doesn't contain any of the 4000 chemicals that ciggy smoke does. Sure it's irritating when people blow it across you, I agree that vapers should be more discreet [I'm vaping 8year and have never managed to p*** anyone off because of my habit] I have a stealthier vape for when out in public or at work [barely a whisp of vapour] and only blow 'clouds' [as people often to vapour from vape devices] in the comfort of my own home. The only time anyone has remarked on me vaping was to tell me how good the vapour smelled [I like custard type vapes mostly, can smell a bit like a bakery]
Experts claim there is no evidence of a risk to the public from passive vaping
Passive smoking has long been known to have a negative impact on the public’s health.
www.thejournal.ie
Sure, you could dig out counter claim articles from the likes of The Sun but I trust in my own experience, when I was smoking I was on 2 inhalers because my breathing was so f'd and I was completely winded after walking the length of a short street. I'm doing on average 20k steps per day nowadays and a lot of cycling and never short of breath, my overall health has improved significantly.
In short, I agree vapers should be more considerate, but I wouldn't stress over the vapour being harmful, just mildly annoying if they're blowing it across you.
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Steep
Nutcrack Rapids
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Do you realise how utterly childish you're being?
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Running out of arguments. Revert to name calling.
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Well if that is the case, I think drinkers should step up to the mark, and consume more alcohol, more drink, more tax, cost problems solvedTaking into consideration all the above I think you'd be less of a burden on society by sticking to smoking..
OP
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There is plenty out there. But for all the moans about the harm it does, and the effects on a Sat night in A&E what about the millions who drink without issue. Some I know literally drink every day (1 or2), while I probably only drink once or twice a week but normally a fair few if I do, all without incident. Not everyone who drinks gets behind the wheel of a car, or smacks their wife about. Depending on what legislation that is, it could be the death of many pubs in this country who are struggling even more with Covid.
Gremlin
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I do know that, but I don't want to walk through clouds of vapour to get into shops or walk pass on pavement
and more to the point, restricting alcohol would be a bad move for any government, so it will never happen
OP
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I think it would be a bad move for most people! How do you think it should be restricted further (not really sure much is possible as I can stock up booze at home!)
The vape thing can be annoying but it happens once in a while, so doesn't really annoy me. No different to standing near someone who has BO, or eating something smelly. We all do things that annoy others, so we should just be a bit more tolerant IMO.
Gremlin
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, just that no government ever would
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I hate sitting outside in the summer having a beer or even a spot of lunch, and the selfish plonker on the table next to you lights up. Nothing I can do about it, at least my local has a non smoking section outside. Every smoker I've met says "it's about choice", but I don't get to chose when you start lighting up your cancer sticks on the table next to me.
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You have the choice to move and sit somewhere else.
Funny how non smokers banished smokers to the outdoors to smoke in the rain and then complain because the smokers are outdoors in the summer.
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OP
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Probably the pubs I go to, but outside I have only had one time that I can remember and that was partly as it had a roof covering so trapped more air than a normal outdoor place would. The other times I sit outside I am normally far enough away so not an issue.
I have always wondered though why its socially acceptable (or the done thing) to not be able to through a sweet wrapper on the floor but you can a fag butt!
Nod
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Opioids are available over the counter so a habit is possible to acquire perfectly legally.
A well timed anal eructation as one passes the offending table is quite satisfying!
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Good point! But y'know, moaners gotta moan. I don't begrudge smokers having their puff, it's not hard to steer clear or not imagine I'm going to get cancer because a waft of cig smoke passed me, thankfully I'm not so melodramatic.,
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That’s because their empty, almost.
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And smokers have the choice to be thoughtful. I didn't banish you to the outside in the rain, but if smokers are prepared to get cold & wet just to get their fix, maybe they need to have a good look at themselves....
My parents smoked, my two sisters smoked, but my brother & I have never felt the "need".... And there's a big age gap between us.
Pound Coin
Horatio Nelson
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Smokers choose to smoke and choose to affect everyone else.
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Got out of the smoking game years ago, now I vape, similar sensation to smoking without the nasties in it, of course its not 100% safe, but then nothing is. It's harm reduction.
0.4 ohm kanthal coil in the mongrel RDA with squonk pin on top of a Vandy vape pulse 2 squonk mod. Instant fog bank
0.4 ohm kanthal coil in the mongrel RDA with squonk pin on top of a Vandy vape pulse 2 squonk mod. Instant fog bank
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And the gobbledygook award of the year goes to...0.4 ohm kanthal coil in the mongrel RDA with squonk pin on top of a Vandy vape pulse 2 squonk mod. Instant fog bank
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Surely if you ban the sale there will be no smoking anywhere?
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Oh yes there will. Tobacco addicts will gather in tobacco dens (like crack dens but cleaner) and indulge their disgusting habit. The police will set up tobacco raids wearing full anticontamination gear and the evil-doers will be paraded for the press.
Or, they could just be told not to do it where they could harm children.
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Or, they could just be told not to do it where they could harm children.
It's about time they did more about protecting children from it. I lost a lung due to passive smoking thanks to my selfish and inconsiderate parents - this was well over forty years ago and still things haven't been improved to protect the innocent. Even after my surgery they would both still try and smoke near me and my children - I wouldn't let them of course and would get very angry about it.
It killed them both at a young age, so they got what they asked for in the end - a slow and painful death.
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They only have to look at prohibition in history, in a nutshell it didn't work.
If people want to smoke, they will find a way, legal or otherwise.
This is why I switched to vaping, it smells better than smoke and more importantly doesn't stink up the room with products of combustion.
I use different configurations depending on the situation, MTL, 1 ohm or higher, for indoor use, it produces hardly any visible vapour and yet gives me the same satisfaction.
DTL for outside, sub ohm (less than 1 ohm) rips fat clouds, okay flavour wise depending on the liquid, not so good inside unless you want to hotbox the room.
obviously not doing any of it would be better, but I chose the lesser of the two if I must use nicotine
If people want to smoke, they will find a way, legal or otherwise.
Or, they could just be told not to do it where they could harm children.
This is why I switched to vaping, it smells better than smoke and more importantly doesn't stink up the room with products of combustion.
I use different configurations depending on the situation, MTL, 1 ohm or higher, for indoor use, it produces hardly any visible vapour and yet gives me the same satisfaction.
DTL for outside, sub ohm (less than 1 ohm) rips fat clouds, okay flavour wise depending on the liquid, not so good inside unless you want to hotbox the room.
obviously not doing any of it would be better, but I chose the lesser of the two if I must use nicotine