Thank you - New lighting journey ahead...

My new toys just arrived, one lovely new stand and a great lighting kit :banana::banana:
You might be familiar with the Godox Pro trigger already. I found this video that @Sky shared with me really helpful. Before I watched it, I hadn't even noticed there were 5 buttons down the side :rolleyes: :LOL: It's a fantastic trigger - so easy to control each group once you get the hang of it.

View: https://youtu.be/xPjrftUV-s8
 
That's a very useful suggestion. It isn't something that I've done personally but I've used a lit candle in the exact lens position, for the same effect. I remember one particular job, a general shot of a large group of very shiny engineering bearings, the candle helped enormously both with composing the various elements and then lighting them.
Thanks, I haven't done it myself either... it's a variation of what I have done, which is shine a flashlight through the camera's eyepiece. That's useful for placing lights and also for making cutout/backlighting backgrounds. But it requires a dark environment and is probably fussier than just placing the light there instead.
 
Yes I was trying to direct the light across the top of the guitar. It was quite close. I was nervous about knocking the guitar over.
The closeness is part of the problem... the relative size and power (closeness) is required to create the softer light and translucent highlights; but it also causes a very high rate of falloff. That's often a good thing IMO; but you are not wanting that level of shadows/contrast, which means you are walking a tight balancing act.
What you need is a very large light source (as seen by the guitar) at a relatively low intensity, but far enough away to have little falloff. And then your detail/texture light (from the side) needs to be harder (but not overpowering).
You've run right into one of the common fallacies of lighting... you can't just change its distance in order to change its relative size; because that also changes both the power and falloff, which are usually very significant factors.
 
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You might be familiar with the Godox Pro trigger already. I found this video that @Sky shared with me really helpful. Before I watched it, I hadn't even noticed there were 5 buttons down the side :rolleyes: :LOL: It's a fantastic trigger - so easy to control each group once you get the hang of it.

View: https://youtu.be/xPjrftUV-s8


Thanks for that @Bebop and thank you too @Sky

I have never used a trigger in the past but just watched the video and OMG this should be fun.
I also own the Fuji TTL685 flash, would I be able to use it with the XproS trigger ?
Plus do you mind me asking stupid questions in your thread here ?
 
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The closeness is part of the problem... the relative size and power (closeness) is required to create the softer light and translucent highlights; but is also causes a very high rate of falloff. That's often a good thing IMO; but you are not wanting that level of shadows/contrast, which means you are walking a tight balancing act.
What you need is a very large light source (as seen by the guitar) at a relatively low intensity, but far enough away to have little falloff. And then your detail/texture light (from the side) needs to be harder (but not overpowering).
You've run right into one of the common fallacies of lighting... you can't just change its distance in order to change its relative size; because that also changes both the power and falloff, which are usually very significant factors.
I may need to go and lie in a dark room to digest this :LOL: but I think I understand.... if I move the softbox further away, my falloff 'gradient' is less across the guitar (so the difference between the right and left side will be less) but then the light then becomes harsher (with deeper contrast and shadows) which is not what I want either.

Would moving the softbox nearer the central axis help - so the falloff is less? (edit; i mean more square on) Apologies if I'm making my own terms up here with gradient and axis - I'm not sure what the proper terms would be, but hopefully you know what I mean.

I think I need to play more with simple set ups so that it becomes more intuitive and perhaps revisit the guitar then, but it is making me think of taking it outside on an overcast day :)
 
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Thanks for that @Bebop and thank you too @Sky

I have never used a trigger in the past but just watched the video and OMG this should be fun.
I also own the Fuji TTL685 flash, would I be able to use it with the XproS trigger ?
Plus do you mind me asking stupid questions in your thread here ?
I think Sony might have a different pin set up. I asked the question of Lencarta because I also have an Olympus set up and they said they couldn't guarantee it would work, but it might. I haven't tried it yet. I had a Sony years ago, and the hotshot was different. Funnily enough my remote shutter cable for my Canon works on the Olympus - which is very handy! :)

Feel free to ask stupid questions here. I'd prefer it if they were more stupid than my own questions :LOL:
 
I think Sony might have a different pin set up. I asked the question of Lencarta because I also have an Olympus set up and they said they couldn't guarantee it would work, but it might. I haven't tried it yet. I had a Sony years ago, and the hotshot was different. Funnily enough my remote shutter cable for my Canon works on the Olympus - which is very handy! :)

Feel free to ask stupid questions here. I'd prefer it if they were more stupid than my own questions :LOL:


So the trigger goes on one of my Sony cameras that I know..lol So for off camera flash it would of been great if I could also use the Fuji TTL685 a long side of the Sony TTL685, I do look forward to having some fun though :eek:
On the Smartflash what power setting for testing, and does it stay turned on or is it just a flash.
 
Thanks for that @Bebop and thank you too @Sky

I have never used a trigger in the past but just watched the video and OMG this should be fun.
I also own the Fuji TTL685 flash, would I be able to use it with the XproS trigger ?
Plus do you mind me asking stupid questions in your thread here ?
Ah I've just re-read your post and I misunderstood. If it is a Godox flash then I assume that will work with your XProS trigger without a problem - just put some batteries in and give it a whirl. Presumably you'll need to put the flash into slave mode.

I thought you meant would the trigger work on both Sony and Fuji cameras.
 
Ah I've just re-read your post and I misunderstood. If it is a Godox flash then I assume that will work with your XProS trigger without a problem - just put some batteries in and give it a whirl. Presumably you'll need to put the flash into slave mode.

I thought you meant would the trigger work on both Sony and Fuji cameras.


What I actually own our Fuji TTL685 and Fuji TTL350 then the Sony TTL685 and Smartflash.
 
So the trigger goes on one of my Sony cameras that I know..lol So for off camera flash it would of been great if I could also use the Fuji TTL685 a long side of the Sony TTL685, I do look forward to having some fun though :eek:
On the Smartflash what power setting for testing, and does it stay turned on or is it just a flash.
I bought a Godox X1R Canon receiver which enables me to use my Canon flash with my Godox trigger. If your flash are all Godox ones you probably don't need to buy any special receivers.

The modelling lights stay on (when you press the button on either the light or the trigger). The Smartflash will just fire a flash when you press the test button or if you fire your shutter.

You can choose what power you like. I watched a video and he said he always started at 1/16 power and then went up or down. They only go as far as 1/32 power anyway.
 
I also own the Fuji TTL685 flash, would I be able to use it with the XproS trigger ?

If you mean the Godox TT685 for Fuji, then yes it should. I use a pair of them (for Nikon) in addition to my studio lights and they work fine - great for filling in small gaps.

If it's a Fuji flash you may not be able to control its settings with it, but you'll still be able to trigger it optically. :)
 
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I bought a Godox X1R Canon receiver which enables me to use my Canon flash with my Godox trigger. If your flash are all Godox ones you probably don't need to buy any special receivers.

The modelling lights stay on (when you press the button on either the light or the trigger). The Smartflash will just fire a flash when you press the test button or if you fire your shutter.

You can choose what power you like. I watched a video and he said he always started at 1/16 power and then went up or down. They only go as far as 1/32 power anyway.


Thank god for that, was worried I blow up the Smartflash if I used to much power.
 
If you mean the Godox TT685 for Fuji, then yes it should. I use a pair of them (for Nikon) in addition to my studio lights and they work fine - great for filling in small gaps.

If it's a Fuji flash you may not be able to control its settings with it, but you'll still be able to trigger it optically. :)


Yes all the flash are Godox.
 
Slave mode OMG I must be silly as that does not mean any idea to me, think I have a lot to learn.
Your flash is either in control - master, or is being controlled - slave.

Your trigger is controlling your flash unit, so effectively the trigger is the master and your flash units are slaves - your smartflash are slaves too.

There will be a mode button on your flash unit... keep pressing it until you see slave - but why not just start off using the smartflash and then introduce your camera flash later? You don't need to set the Smartflash up as a slave - just check which group it is on e.g. A and make sure the trigger is on the same group A,

Later you can add the camera flash in and put that in group B (for example) and then you can control the power of each group using your trigger.

It's possibly the blind leading the blind here, but I think I am correct!

Re the power - I always have faith that they design things so I can't blow them up.... though it has happened (not with camera gear though) :LOL:
 
Your flash is either in control - master, or is being controlled - slave.

Your trigger is controlling your flash unit, so effectively the trigger is the master and your flash units are slaves - your smartflash are slaves too.

There will be a mode button on your flash unit... keep pressing it until you see slave - but why not just start off using the smartflash and then introduce your camera flash later? You don't need to set the Smartflash up as a slave - just check which group it is on e.g. A and make sure the trigger is on the same group A,

Later you can add the camera flash in and put that in group B (for example) and then you can control the power of each group using your trigger.

It's possibly the blind leading the blind here, but I think I am correct!

Re the power - I always have faith that they design things so I can't blow them up.... though it has happened (not with camera gear though) :LOL:



Wish I'd stayed at school longer than I did, if I'm truthful it is a lot to take in but I do look forward to learning.

On a funny note I did blow up something once when I was about 8yrs, I had a habit of pushing a screwdriver where it should not go. Never did it again though as it was a wall socket and it threw me right across my bed and for two weeks everything was a bright orange colour.
 
Wish I'd stayed at school longer than I did, if I'm truthful it is a lot to take in but I do look forward to learning.

On a funny note I did blow up something once when I was about 8yrs, I had a habit of pushing a screwdriver where it should not go. Never did it again though as it was a wall socket and it threw me right across my bed and for two weeks everything was a bright orange colour.
:LOL: I'm glad you survived! I've done some stupid things sticking my finger where I shouldn't as a child. The biggest unintended bang I made was in the physics lab and I tried to pretend it wasn't me :ROFLMAO:

I think keep it simple at first. Forget your camera flash units, just use the Smartflash and trigger. One step at a time.
 
Your flash is either in control - master, or is being controlled - slave.

Your trigger is controlling your flash unit, so effectively the trigger is the master and your flash units are slaves - your smartflash are slaves too.

There will be a mode button on your flash unit... keep pressing it until you see slave - but why not just start off using the smartflash and then introduce your camera flash later? You don't need to set the Smartflash up as a slave - just check which group it is on e.g. A and make sure the trigger is on the same group A,


Good point as I was jumping to quick, so Smartflash first for a bit then add Godox flash later.
 
As we have low ceilings and small rooms, do I need a softbox for the Smartflash ?
Warning... relative beginner here...
Basically what we have to learn to do is to get light where we want light, and no light where we want no light (shadows). With the various modifiers (reflector, softbox, grid etc) we can shape the light, make it more or less directional and control how soft or hard the shadows are.

With the trigger and Smartflash, we can control how much light we have, but without modifiers we are very limited as to what we can do, so I would say you definitely need a softbox. I bought a 120cm softbox some years ago to put over my camera flash. It's too big really for my space, but it is what I have and what I've used so far. I'd get a smaller one if I was buying now. Big has its advantages though.

Have another read through Garry's book - it is all explained in there. The different modifiers are discussed from page 26 onwards. On page 39 you'll see he compares the effects of different modifiers on a mannikin head.

The first lighting project starts with no modifier - why not give that a try for starters? It is all useful practice. Try it close up and further away and move it around. See how it affects the image. You could rig up trying to shoot through something like a tea towel/white sheet or something, though I would think you'd need to be careful with the heating effect particularly of the modelling lamp - don't put it too close and set fire to anything :) And don't stick your screw driver in any holes :LOL:
 
I may need to go and lie in a dark room to digest this :LOL: but I think I understand.... if I move the softbox further away, my falloff 'gradient' is less across the guitar (so the difference between the right and left side will be less) but then the light then becomes harsher (with deeper contrast and shadows) which is not what I want either.
Pretty much! I would say that "harder" just means more defined/sharp boundaries/edges... I think of it as being more "jagged." I.e. falloff and hardness can both cause equally high contrast; just in a different manner with a different feel.
Would moving the softbox nearer the central axis help - so the falloff is less?
Yes, but that will probably block the camera unless placed too far away. If I was going to try to take a picture of an archtop guitar like I envision you envision, with the kit you have, my first thought is a "profile shot" with the light very close and overhead. Or maybe I should say "I think so"... the first time through is always a bit of an experiment; and I haven't done guitars for a couple decades now.
I think I need to play more with simple set ups so that it becomes more intuitive and perhaps revisit the guitar then, but it is making me think of taking it outside on an overcast day :)
Also a good option... a much larger soft/indirect light source; and then adding other highlights/shadows as desired. But the you are dependent on mother nature...
 
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Also consider detail shots; you can "tell the story" in smaller pieces rather than trying to do all of it at once... and it's easier with limited kit. Imagine just the guitar's lower bout/body emerging from the dark...
 
Warning... relative beginner here...
Basically what we have to learn to do is to get light where we want light, and no light where we want no light (shadows). With the various modifiers (reflector, softbox, grid etc) we can shape the light, make it more or less directional and control how soft or hard the shadows are.

With the trigger and Smartflash, we can control how much light we have, but without modifiers we are very limited as to what we can do, so I would say you definitely need a softbox. I bought a 120cm softbox some years ago to put over my camera flash. It's too big really for my space, but it is what I have and what I've used so far. I'd get a smaller one if I was buying now. Big has its advantages though.

Have another read through Garry's book - it is all explained in there. The different modifiers are discussed from page 26 onwards. On page 39 you'll see he compares the effects of different modifiers on a mannikin head.

The first lighting project starts with no modifier - why not give that a try for starters? It is all useful practice. Try it close up and further away and move it around. See how it affects the image. You could rig up trying to shoot through something like a tea towel/white sheet or something, though I would think you'd need to be careful with the heating effect particularly of the modelling lamp - don't put it too close and set fire to anything :) And don't stick your screw driver in any holes :LOL:


Thank you, I have a banging headache so hope I can have a play later but if not it will be tomorrow. I will also have a good read too.
All my screwdrivers are locked away too :LOL:
 
Also consider detail shots; you can "tell the story" in smaller pieces rather than trying to do all of it at once... and it's easier with limited kit. Imagine just the guitar's lower bout/body emerging from the dark...

Yep I think a few close ups would work well.

Unfortunately that room has now been commandeered as a workspace, so I’ve got less opportunity to play.
 
When I do get a softbox, what size do I get ?
The best room is our bedroom but all rooms are small so not a lot of room to move about in.

 
Pretty much! I would say that "harder" just means more defined/sharp boundaries/edges... I think of it as being more "jagged." I.e. falloff and hardness can both cause equally high contrast; just in a different manner with a different feel.
Sorry I missed this post earlier. Thank you for your input. It's reassuring to know my understanding is not a million miles out.
Yes, but that will probably block the camera unless placed too far away. If I was going to try to take a picture of an archtop guitar like I envision you envision, with the kit you have, my first thought is a "profile shot" with the light very close and overhead. Or maybe I should say "I think so"... the first time through is always a bit of an experiment; and I haven't done guitars for a couple decades now.
I might be envisioning the impossible. It occurred to me some people might do a composite of two exposures and combine to accentuate the shape as they'd like - a bit of artistic jiggery pokery! I can see the advantage of having a boom arm to be able to get the light right overhead. I will try and improve a bit before I start spending more money though.

Also a good option... a much larger soft/indirect light source; and then adding other highlights/shadows as desired. But the you are dependent on mother nature...
Yes which is not ideal. I have a friend who sells guitars, and he is also an excellent aviation photographer (and guitarist!) - he may also be on TP. I notice he quite often photographs them outside. I suspect most guitarists are more interested in which model/pickups etc it has rather than worry about the finer points of a photograph. Still, I shall keep at it, although I will see what project Garry has next in his book :)
 
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When I do get a softbox, what size do I get ?
The best room is our bedroom but all rooms are small so not a lot of room to move about in.

I don't really feel qualified to say Dave, but I believe some of them fold away more easily than others, so it's worth asking them about that. I suspect this one doesn't https://www.lencarta.com/lencarta-chiaro-softbox-lencarta-bowens-85-x-85cm but it's cheaper. If you have somewhere where you could leave it up, or if budget is most important, or if you don't mind the fiddling around putting it together. then this might be a good buy? It appears to be the cheapest and the smallest.

This one https://www.lencarta.com/profold-folding-softbox-lencarta-70x100cm seems to fold like an umbrella, so I think would be my preferred choice, but I'm probably not the best person to advise.

Or then there's this one https://www.lencarta.com/redline-pro-profold-folding-octa-softbox-lencarta-95cm umbrella folding again and slightly different dimensions.

Any reflections can show the shape e.g. catchlights in the eyes, so that might colour your decision too.

As for which one does the best job of diffusing the light, I have no idea.

I'd be interested to see you replicate your shot of the statue against the background with your new lighting - the one you did for the 52.
 
I don't really feel qualified to say Dave, but I believe some of them fold away more easily than others, so it's worth asking them about that. I suspect this one doesn't https://www.lencarta.com/lencarta-chiaro-softbox-lencarta-bowens-85-x-85cm but it's cheaper. If you have somewhere where you could leave it up, or if budget is most important, or if you don't mind the fiddling around putting it together. then this might be a good buy? It appears to be the cheapest and the smallest.

This one https://www.lencarta.com/profold-folding-softbox-lencarta-70x100cm seems to fold like an umbrella, so I think would be my preferred choice, but I'm probably not the best person to advise.

Or then there's this one https://www.lencarta.com/redline-pro-profold-folding-octa-softbox-lencarta-95cm umbrella folding again and slightly different dimensions.

Any reflections can show the shape e.g. catchlights in the eyes, so that might colour your decision too.

As for which one does the best job of diffusing the light, I have no idea.

I'd be interested to see you replicate your shot of the statue against the background with your new lighting - the one you did for the 52.


Thank you, think I will go for the 2nd one in the link (y)
 
When I do get a softbox, what size do I get ?
The best room is our bedroom but all rooms are small so not a lot of room to move about in.

Just to say that if you are likely to want to assemble / disassemble them with any regularity make sure you get the folding kind (Lencarta call them Profold) - they do cost a bit more, but the difference is between 30s to put up / collapse, and 5-10 minutes of fighting with a mechanism that seems designed not to do what it should!
 
I don't really feel qualified to say Dave, but I believe some of them fold away more easily than others, so it's worth asking them about that. I suspect this one doesn't https://www.lencarta.com/lencarta-chiaro-softbox-lencarta-bowens-85-x-85cm but it's cheaper. If you have somewhere where you could leave it up, or if budget is most important, or if you don't mind the fiddling around putting it together. then this might be a good buy? It appears to be the cheapest and the smallest.

This one https://www.lencarta.com/profold-folding-softbox-lencarta-70x100cm seems to fold like an umbrella, so I think would be my preferred choice, but I'm probably not the best person to advise.

Or then there's this one https://www.lencarta.com/redline-pro-profold-folding-octa-softbox-lencarta-95cm umbrella folding again and slightly different dimensions.

Any reflections can show the shape e.g. catchlights in the eyes, so that might colour your decision too.

As for which one does the best job of diffusing the light, I have no idea.

I'd be interested to see you replicate your shot of the statue against the background with your new lighting - the one you did for the 52.
Just to say that if you are likely to want to assemble / disassemble them with any regularity make sure you get the folding kind (Lencarta call them Profold) - they do cost a bit more, but the difference is between 30s to put up / collapse, and 5-10 minutes of fighting with a mechanism that seems designed not to do what it should!



Just got the one in the 2nd link, Pro-Profold.
 
Good choice Dave, I have folding ones now, but previously had the ' 5-10 minutes of fighting' type previously. I really must dig them out and sell them on to someone who has space to leave them assembled.
 
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