The book and zine making thread

How about taking it a step further?

No offence, but no thanks.

Too much effort for this lazy b'stard!
 
That's one Album filled.

DSCN6149.jpg

DSCN6150.jpg

I've got 23 sheets of 240gsm photo-paper in this one and could probably get a couple more in. I'm thinking a sheet of overhead projector film might be a good idea to protect the first page which shows through the cover.

Using double sided paper or thinner stock these albums might also be a good way to make dummies to play around with sequencing for zines and books.
 
I've got 23 sheets of 240gsm photo-paper in this one
That's really helpful and gives a good idea of how much it will hold. What's the build quality like? And the security of the pages in the binder?.

When I was at the Photography show in 2019 I saw similar but up to A2 size and I took their flyer then lost it. They had a sample A2 book on their stand and whilst completely impractical it was hella cool. Whilst they don't appear to go up to A2, they do A3 which might keep my happy.
 
That's really helpful and gives a good idea of how much it will hold. What's the build quality like? And the security of the pages in the binder?.
They seem well made and finished to me, and page security is good. Pages/sheets certainly won't fall out and they'd be difficult to pull out, especially with a lot of pages in.

There is a bit of a knack to loading sheets as the 'spring' is pretty strong. I put the back cover between my knees, open the album with my left hand, then feed the paper in with my right which is the tricky part as you have to keep the sheets stacked neatly, although there is a stop at the bottom which makes vertical alignment easier. Sometimes it takes me a couple or three attempts.

I'm sure there must be a professional way of doing it!
 
Hi,

I've been reading this thread with great interest as I'm thinking of making my own photobook. I think the days of people paying me to make books are long gone!

It'll be in b&w and cover a long period of my photographic history with images in the style of Fay Godwin. A retrospective of sorts but also with a theme running through it. It could have fifty pages, so say 90 images.....I haven't decided yet....but fairly ambitious for a first poject, I think.

I've read Ed Sutton's incredibly useful post comparing three different book printers; Dave - since you posted it, might there be any updates?

As a Lightroom user I'm tempted to use Blurb purely because it's integrated into the software I already use. I'm realistic about my ability to learn new software in a hurry.

So does anyone have any further thoughts?
 
I've read Ed Sutton's incredibly useful post comparing three different book printers; Dave - since you posted it, might there be any updates?
I'll have a re-read and get back to you. (y)
 
As a Lightroom user I'm tempted to use Blurb purely because it's integrated into the software I already use. I'm realistic about my ability to learn new software in a hurry.

This is why I use Blurb. Simply make a collection, start a new book, save it, then any new images you drop into that collection just become available for the book. It's a great way to tackle an ongoing no-rush project because you can focus on which images to use from within Lightroom. Any edits you make auto populate through to the book... With other apps you need to have the images somewhere which often means exporting raws out to jpegs. Any new edits need re-exporting... I just found it a pain.. There are just so many more hoops to jump through and I'm a lazy sod.
 
I'll have a re-read and get back to you. (y)

brill!


This is why I use Blurb. Simply make a collection, start a new book, save it, then any new images you drop into that collection just become available for the book. It's a great way to tackle an ongoing no-rush project because you can focus on which images to use from within Lightroom. Any edits you make auto populate through to the book... With other apps you need to have the images somewhere which often means exporting raws out to jpegs. Any new edits need re-exporting... I just found it a pain.. There are just so many more hoops to jump through and I'm a lazy sod.

A man after my own heart! Looks like it could be the way to go.
 
A man after my own heart! Looks like it could be the way to go.

Would be interested to se the results when you're done. I love Fay Godwin's work and have a copy of the "Drovers' Roads of Wales" that I keep intending to go and visit. Stupid lockdown.
 
I've been reading this thread with great interest as I'm thinking of making my own photobook. I think the days of people paying me to make books are long gone!

It'll be in b&w and cover a long period of my photographic history with images in the style of Fay Godwin. A retrospective of sorts but also with a theme running through it. It could have fifty pages, so say 90 images.....I haven't decided yet....but fairly ambitious for a first poject, I think.


As a Lightroom user I'm tempted to use Blurb purely because it's integrated into the software I already use. I'm realistic about my ability to learn new software in a hurry.

So does anyone have any further thoughts?
Okay, I've had a re-read of my comparison post.

I've nothing much to add to the Blurb and Doxdirect comments. Just one thing concerning saddle stitched (stapled) publications. Doxdirect will saddle-stitch higher page counts than Mixam, and sometimes (not always) these are done with a 'spine' which make the publication look more like a book than a zine. No text can be added to this 'spine'.

DSCN6189.jpg

Having used Mixam for a number of stitched zines and my poultry book I've been impressed with the quality of the finished articles and the service and assistance provided. However, it does require a greater level of DTP experience than using Blurb or making a simple zine with Doxdirect. I've not made a hardback book with Mixam so can't say how they compare to the ones from Blurb, but the softbacks are at least as good if not better, and you aren't limited by the Blurb software only your DTP skills.

Mixam offers a much greater choice of cover and paper stock than Doxdirect or Blurb.

If new to this sort of thing then Blurb is the easy way in, but if you are intending to sell the publications Blurb is likely to offer the least scope for making money unless you can take advantage of their discounts - either one-offs or bulk ordering discounts. I'd also point out that the hardbacks are just perfect bound paperbacks stuck between board covers, not properly bound books, so (to my mind) they don't look as polished for a commercial publication. For one-offs and giveaways they are fine, but to sell I'd go with their paperback option.

Whatever route you take it's worth getting a sample made even if it costs a lot as it will save money in the long run.
 
If new to this sort of thing then Blurb is the easy way in, but if you are intending to sell the publications Blurb is likely to offer the least scope for making money unless you can take advantage of their discounts - either one-offs or bulk ordering discounts. I'd also point out that the hardbacks are just perfect bound paperbacks stuck between board covers, not properly bound books, so (to my mind) they don't look as polished for a commercial publication. For one-offs and giveaways they are fine, but to sell I'd go with their paperback option.

Totally agree with this.
 
Okay, I've had a re-read of my comparison post.

I've nothing much to add to the Blurb and Doxdirect comments. Just one thing concerning saddle stitched (stapled) publications. Doxdirect will saddle-stitch higher page counts than Mixam, and sometimes (not always) these are done with a 'spine' which make the publication look more like a book than a zine. No text can be added to this 'spine'.

View attachment 305880

Having used Mixam for a number of stitched zines and my poultry book I've been impressed with the quality of the finished articles and the service and assistance provided. However, it does require a greater level of DTP experience than using Blurb or making a simple zine with Doxdirect. I've not made a hardback book with Mixam so can't say how they compare to the ones from Blurb, but the softbacks are at least as good if not better, and you aren't limited by the Blurb software only your DTP skills.

Mixam offers a much greater choice of cover and paper stock than Doxdirect or Blurb.

If new to this sort of thing then Blurb is the easy way in, but if you are intending to sell the publications Blurb is likely to offer the least scope for making money unless you can take advantage of their discounts - either one-offs or bulk ordering discounts. I'd also point out that the hardbacks are just perfect bound paperbacks stuck between board covers, not properly bound books, so (to my mind) they don't look as polished for a commercial publication. For one-offs and giveaways they are fine, but to sell I'd go with their paperback option.

Whatever route you take it's worth getting a sample made even if it costs a lot as it will save money in the long run.


More invaluable advice. Thanks so much!

Do you have any thoughts on which option to go for for b&w prints? I must admit I'm tending towards Blurb for the prototype at least.
 
Last edited:
More invaluable advice. Thanks so much!

Do you have any thoughts on which option to go for for b&w prints? I must admit I'm tending towards Blurb for the prototype at least.
I've only used Doxdirect and Blurb for black and white and the Blurb books look fine to me - and they are of film photos scanned with my Plustek scanner which isn't the best available.

Blurb is a great way to start both to get used to designing books and to find out how they turn out. Hard copies often look and feel a bit different to how the online previews and PDFs they are made from can lead you to imagine.

Mixam do a 'free' A5 proof service which would give you an idea on print quality - you only pay postage, but that would mean making a PDF. https://mixam.co.uk/sampletest Doxdirect is cheap enough to get a sample printed, but the formats are only A4 and A5.
 
Okay, I've had a re-read of my comparison post.

I've nothing much to add to the Blurb and Doxdirect comments. Just one thing concerning saddle stitched (stapled) publications. Doxdirect will saddle-stitch higher page counts than Mixam, and sometimes (not always) these are done with a 'spine' which make the publication look more like a book than a zine. No text can be added to this 'spine'.

View attachment 305880

Usually once a booklet is over a set number of pages the printer will 'square back' the booklet, this is what you are seeing here. Some printers will do this automatically, others have to be asked and may charge extra for this service.
 
Usually once a booklet is over a set number of pages the printer will 'square back' the booklet, this is what you are seeing here. Some printers will do this automatically, others have to be asked and may charge extra for this service.
Thanks. At Doxdirect it seems pretty random.
 


I'm not rushing into this. It's been maybe five years in the making so far with setbacks and disillusionment along the way. But the idea just won't go away and the winter lockdown has given me plenty of time to reassess it. So we shall see....... I'll keep you updated.
 
That's one Album filled.

View attachment 305348

I've got 23 sheets of 240gsm photo-paper in this one and could probably get a couple more in. I'm thinking a sheet of overhead projector film might be a good idea to protect the first page which shows through the cover.


Update:

The OHP film works but is a bugger to cut to size and fit in the album as it's slippy stuff.


Also, using the same paper, I struggled to fit 23 sheets in the slot.

On the plus side that's two lots of prints done. :giggle:

_7515458.jpg
 
Last edited:
I'm not rushing into this. It's been maybe five years in the making so far with setbacks and disillusionment along the way. But the idea just won't go away and the winter lockdown has given me plenty of time to reassess it. So we shall see....... I'll keep you updated.


Next step along the way......

I've just uploaded 100 b&w images to the CEWE website for printing. When the prints come back I will be in a much better position to sequence and edit them. I find that difficult to do on screen.

I used CEWE because they were

(a) cheap (17p each for a 7x5) and
(b) with their website you can specify the longest edge length and the print can be made without cropping no matter what the aspect ratio. :)
 
Last edited:
This is a one off I did in 2019. I like this sort of binding with thicker paper stock as it makes the pages look and feel more like individual prints.

I might reshoot the flip through as I should have locked focus and exposure so I might reupload at some point. It's also a bit long coz there's 45 pages.

(Edit to add original replaced with speeded up version)
View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0rUz2-e6wY4
 
Last edited:
I do like the ironic nature of many of these, Dave. A slightly seedy seaside resort off-season has so much photographic potential.
Thanks Jerry. It's where I lived until I was eight, and still live close. It's 'home' to me. I've always found photographing there in winter more interesting than summer though, even back in my early days with a camera.

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yBbBSacnZ4Q
 
Well, it's been such a long time since I contributed to this thread, and things have moved on a long way since then. In November I noticed an ad on Facebook from a company called Saal who produce photobooks; I think they're German so possibly trying to break into the UK market......

Anyway they were offering £100 towards one of their top-of-the range photobooks. I signed up straight away - it was valid for 30 days. I must say it was the most fun I had had in photography for a long time. The finished product took about ten days to arrive and I'm pretty pleased with it. There are a few things I would change, for example the font I used for the captions was far too large, and I didn't think to add a couple of blank pages at front and back so you open the cover and you're straight in to the content. It has fifty six pages so about 50 images, given that there a couple of double page spreads, a very professional looking "linen-feel" cover and really thick paper. In fact the paper is really too thick, perhaps more suitable for a cover rather than an inner page. And the best thing about it.....it cost me £18.23!

And it doesn't end there. You compile the book in their online software and when it came to the outer cover I added the title in white and my name in black. Both stood out well on the grey cover in their software and on-screen, but when the finished product arrived I discovered that my name was virtually invisible unless you look at the cover at a very precise angle to the light. So although I gave them good feedback I contacted them about this and as a result they gave me a full refund on what I'd paid plus the £100 which I hadn't paid! I can only imagine they didn't realise I'd had a £100 voucher. So that is all just sitting in the bank waiting until i want to produce another photo-book or reprint this one with corrections.

So I'm definitely quids in! :LOL:
 
So I ahve read as much of this thread as I can before my head started to fall off....and I can't find who/what I am loking for

Has anyone produced a book... as in maybe a 500 print run as apposed to one or two.... used a publisher or?

I ahve an idea and absoloutly nowhere to go with it :(
 
Has anyone produced a book... as in maybe a 500 print run as apposed to one or two....
I have. Not books of photos though.

Are you thinking of doing that to make a profit for yourself or not? If you want to make money the best way is to do all the layout/design work yourself and only pay for the printing. If you go through a publisher they'll only take it on if it's going to be profitable and they'll take most of the profit.

Long before on-line print on demand services I published a softback book which I laid out myself using a word processor to produce the text and left gaps for the printer to put the photos in. I handed my hard copy to a printer who did the rest. They cost me £2.60 each and I sold them for over a tenner, with a trade price of seven quid. My previous book had been published by a mate of mine (three print runs of 500) and I got around a quid a copy - when he bothered to pay me... Both books sold out.

More recently I got 100 copies of another book done with Doxdirect having made the PDFs myself. They all went again put a few bob back in the bank for me.

If it doesn't have to turn a profit or only has to break even (maybe used for publicity) then using a designer might be viable as an additional cost to the printing.

The profit from the first short run of my poultry photobook paid for a second run which trickles out. But I didn't do that one purely for the cash, it was also a way to give something back to the people I'd photographed and for the club's archive, so as long as it didn't cost me anything I was content.
 
So I ahve read as much of this thread as I can before my head started to fall off....and I can't find who/what I am loking for

Has anyone produced a book... as in maybe a 500 print run as apposed to one or two.... used a publisher or?

I ahve an idea and absoloutly nowhere to go with it :(
There are quite a few of us who have made zines which are smaller, cheaper versions of books (see the link in my sig for a lot more information). Without going down the publisher route the only companies I've found are Blurb which are great for very low print runs, and Mixam for larger print runs.

I use Mixam also for making my course handouts. A4 glossy 50 page "booklet" that ended up costing me about £4/copy for 20 copies. Mixam also do hardback books so if I were thinking about (for example) making a book about The Life & Times of My Cat which I would then want to sell, I'd probably do it through Mixam. A 30 page hardback book will set you back £1700 for 500 copies which is around £3.40/copy which is comparable to Dave's prices above. Both Mixam & Blurb require you to do the design work yourself.
 
I can recommend the printer I use for my postcards and when they were a publisher as well they published my books. They also print some very upmarket photobooks for galleries etc. It would do you no harm to get in touch with them. At least you'd get some idea of a price. Ask for John Lewis.

https://gomerprinting.co.uk/

You're very unlikely to make any dosh out of a book but it is a very satisfying project to work on.
 
Well, it's been such a long time since I contributed to this thread, and things have moved on a long way since then. In November I noticed an ad on Facebook from a company called Saal who produce photobooks; I think they're German so possibly trying to break into the UK market......

Anyway they were offering £100 towards one of their top-of-the range photobooks. I signed up straight away - it was valid for 30 days. I must say it was the most fun I had had in photography for a long time. The finished product took about ten days to arrive and I'm pretty pleased with it. There are a few things I would change, for example the font I used for the captions was far too large, and I didn't think to add a couple of blank pages at front and back so you open the cover and you're straight in to the content. It has fifty six pages so about 50 images, given that there a couple of double page spreads, a very professional looking "linen-feel" cover and really thick paper. In fact the paper is really too thick, perhaps more suitable for a cover rather than an inner page. And the best thing about it.....it cost me £18.23!

And it doesn't end there. You compile the book in their online software and when it came to the outer cover I added the title in white and my name in black. Both stood out well on the grey cover in their software and on-screen, but when the finished product arrived I discovered that my name was virtually invisible unless you look at the cover at a very precise angle to the light. So although I gave them good feedback I contacted them about this and as a result they gave me a full refund on what I'd paid plus the £100 which I hadn't paid! I can only imagine they didn't realise I'd had a £100 voucher. So that is all just sitting in the bank waiting until i want to produce another photo-book or reprint this one with corrections.

So I'm definitely quids in! :LOL:
I used the same offer to get a photo book to send to my aunt in Canada who could not attend my father's funeral and wake in November 2021.

I spent about £40 in the end on 'upgrades' but it was a stunning piece of work and packaged beautifully. The images came out really well, some being B&W and some colour. All bar two were scans of negatives or more likely photographs. Using their software was very simple too.

I'm not sure I would have went to the expense of spending £140, though to be fair if I had I would still have been happy with what I got. My aunt was over the moon with the result and the fact she didn't know it was coming added to that.

So that is my one experience of Saal.
 
My aunt was over the moon with the result
I think that's the real understated value of some self published stuff. I did a book for my eldest after her prom at school, a book of our girls growing up of which a copy went to the outlaws, and one for me & my wife. I did a book for my wife of our memories since we got married, and finally a book for the father in law after his wife passed away (with photos of her from scans of old negs & prints). Everyone was overjoyed and that's truly the power of photography I think. People are far more likely to throw a hard drive away than they are a book of photos.
 
I have. Not books of photos though.

Hopefully the same concept.. Looking at a photo + anecdotes book .. maybe coffee table book as it will be mostly pictures

Are you thinking of doing that to make a profit for yourself or not? If you want to make money the best way is to do all the layout/design work yourself and only pay for the printing. If you go through a publisher they'll only take it on if it's going to be profitable and they'll take most of the profit.

Profit? Break even would be nice :) To explain. This coming Sep will be 20 years of Photographing Accrington Stanley football club... I have all the main things that have happened and no other person has a collection like mine... Its more the doing than the making money.. Theres no better time than 20 yrs and 25 yrs i will be past 70 so may not fancy it

I feel confident with the layout.. I woul dhave hoped for some sort of template for margins etc and a stylesheet

I would be thinking 500 print run

I know I would need money up front.. But thats all I know

Long before on-line print on demand services I published a softback book which I laid out myself using a word processor to produce the text and left gaps for the printer to put the photos in. I handed my hard copy to a printer who did the rest. They cost me £2.60 each and I sold them for over a tenner, with a trade price of seven quid. My previous book had been published by a mate of mine (three print runs of 500) and I got around a quid a copy - when he bothered to pay me... Both books sold out.

More recently I got 100 copies of another book done with Doxdirect having made the PDFs myself. They all went again put a few bob back in the bank for me.

If it doesn't have to turn a profit or only has to break even (maybe used for publicity) then using a designer might be viable as an additional cost to the printing.

The profit from the first short run of my poultry photobook paid for a second run which trickles out. But I didn't do that one purely for the cash, it was also a way to give something back to the people I'd photographed and for the club's archive, so as long as it didn't cost me anything I was content.

I just dont know where to start :( so i started in here :)
 
There are quite a few of us who have made zines which are smaller, cheaper versions of books

Am thinking decent size book... maybe coffeee table hardback type.
 
Looking to do

Photos and enecdotes
hardback
a4 or wider coffe table type book
probably 200 pages
at least 300 print run
Template or style sheet

Not looking to make a profit..
 
To explain. This coming Sep will be 20 years of Photographing Accrington Stanley football club... I have all the main things that have happened and no other person has a collection like mine... Its more the doing than the making money.. Theres no better time than 20 yrs and 25 yrs i will be past 70 so may not fancy it

I feel confident with the layout.. I woul dhave hoped for some sort of template for margins etc and a stylesheet

I would be thinking 500 print run

I know I would need money up front.. But thats all I know
That's the sort of book that would find an audience/market. Which is a good start.

First thing is to gather the material. That will give you an idea how many pages the book is likely to run to. Which helps you work out the print cost when you decide on format, paper quality etc.

When you know that you'll be able to decided whether to do the layout yourself or pay someone to do it.

As soon as you know the total cost start the marketing. And maybe set up a Kickstarter or Crowdfunder page. With enough promotion you might be able to find buyers for more than 500 - which should reduce your unit costs.

Those are my thoughts from considering a book of photos and text myself.

Looking to do

Photos and enecdotes
hardback
a4 or wider coffe table type book
probably 200 pages
at least 300 print run
Template or style sheet

Not looking to make a profit..
That should be easy to cost. (y)
 
That's the sort of book that would find an audience/market. Which is a good start.

First thing is to gather the material. That will give you an idea how many pages the book is likely to run to. Which helps you work out the print cost when you decide on format, paper quality etc.

When you know that you'll be able to decided whether to do the layout yourself or pay someone to do it.

As soon as you know the total cost start the marketing. And maybe set up a Kickstarter or Crowdfunder page. With enough promotion you might be able to find buyers for more than 500 - which should reduce your unit costs.

Those are my thoughts from considering a book of photos and text myself.


That should be easy to cost. (y)


its 20 yrs so i thought average 10 page per year = 200 pages.. some years will be boring and some need a lot.. so 10 should be a good average and also leave a few pages for intro etc

I can fund it myself and hopefully get enough back to pay for that

but how do i get a price from a publisher ?

PS would be looking at sep on the 20 yr anniversary sort of date....to publish.. cant see marketing being a problem as i have a captured audience and the club will do that bit :) but yes could also be interest from a wider audience..
 
Last edited:
I can fund it myself and hopefully get enough back to pay for that

but how do i get a price from a publisher ?

PS would be looking at sep on the 20 yr anniversary sort of date....to publish.. cant see marketing being a problem as i have a captured audience and the club will do that bit :) but yes could also be interest from a wider audience..
It could be worth asking around any local printers. Some will have design departments that would do the layout for you to your general design concept. But that will add a fair bit to the price.

There might be local history/interest publishers who would be interested, or sporting publishers. Worth a search.

Two points.

Whatever a printer quotes you make sure you HAGGLE! I used to get a catalogue printed and the first quote I got I declined. The printer immediately halved it!

Publishers will often work well in advance, so might not be able to fit your book into their schedule with a September deadline. I've not dealt with publishers so don't have much I can add, just beware of vanity publishers who will sting you. get some printing costs (either from a Mixam online quote or from local printers) before approaching a publisher so you have some ideas on prices.
 
Back
Top