The camera is going in the bin !

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BRAD
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#1
This is a rant more than anything else , I prefer using film ( this is not a film v digital rant) I have a Canon 10d DSLR which occasionally makes it out of the cupboard when I am feeling the love then gets chucked in once it destroys a load of my photos. Today being a nice day me and Mrs Badger decided to have a day out at Coughton Court and I decided to go Digital (I'm always at war with myself about the cost of using film) So I took the DSLR as its been good lately and a compact Olympus digital, thank god I took the Olympus. Every single photo was over exposed by the DSLR. I must say I use manual film lense on it and use it in manual mode, in mid to low light it works well but in bright light it always over exposes although the metering is showing it to be right anyway it's finaly gone in the bin. I don't really like the Olympus as it is pretty much all auto but on this occasion it saved the day. Both are about the same age but the Olympus has some damage to it's body from when I had an off whilst motorcycle green lanning. hence my other post about Older compacts with manual modes.


Canon best shot out of 4 the rest were a near white out
CAN3.JPG

Olympus Compact one shot and it's fine
OLY3.JPG

Canon again the best of a number of shots

CAN2.JPG

Olympus one of two shots both the same

OLY2.JPG

Rant over !
 
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wayne clarke
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#2
What manual lens are you using? it does stop down manually when you turn the aperture ring on the lens right? Some stick, often in the wide open position. I have an old 30d which I use for places I don't want to risk a good camera, I tend to use it with pentax or tamron lens, all manual, never had any problems exposure wise.
 
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#3
From the EXIF data in your first photo (Canon):

ISO = 1600
S = 1/500
A = '0' (not recorded for manual lens?)

From the second (Olympus) shot:

ISO = 64
S = 1/796.8
A = 4.6

Plugging the approximate Olympus values and the two known Canon values into this exposure calculator in 'shutter preferred' mode:

https://www.scantips.com/lights/exposurecalc.html

64 ISO, 1/800s, f/4.5 is equivalent to 1600 ISO, 1/500s, f/28

The ISO on the Canon shot looks very high. Does your lens even stop down as far as the f/28 you'd need for an equivalent exposure?
 
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#4
Film is more tolerant and the dynamic range of a lot of old canon sensors is a bit poor. I checked the 10d and it's only 11EV at best. It just can't do it. You'd probably have to use exposure compensation and knock off a couple of stops. That's worth a try. You will probably find shadows are gone but you won't have the washed out look.

My older sony digital used to do what your canon does. It's the shadow recovery I think. The compacts don't bother and just give you the blue skies and the shadows have disappeared to flat black but it generally makes for a more pleasant looking picture. I got very fed up as my iphone took better photos in these conditions. Skies nice and blue. I had to use exposure compensation or bracket. I'm lazy. That was too much effort when I could just use film and it looked fine.

I have a Sony A99 now and it doesn't exhibit the issues I had. It's got a better dynamic range. It's only a couple of EV but it makes a big difference. I assume a better metering system and I've yet to have the washed out looking photos that the old DSLRs always produced The A77ii wasn't bad but I am a lot happier with the quality of images from the A99. It's finally up to film camera standard :rolleyes:

I was out with the sony today. Strong sun. No polariser and no lens hood. A polariser might help with your issue. It's probably the cheapest thing to try if fiddling with exposure compensation doesn't work.

Consall Gardens, Staffordshire
by Suzy Richards, on Flickr

Below was taken with film:


Staffordshire Moorlands
by Suzy Richards, on Flickr

Think that was the Yashica and Ektar. Old tech still rules for this kind of weather :)
 

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#5
A 10d was so early on in dslr development. It was amazing at the time but I would not even consider anything older that a 60d now. A smartphone will happy make mince meat out of these cameras to be fair.
 
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#8
The ISO for the first canon shot was high but the internal metering gave me the shutter speed and other iso's down to 100 were used in the other shots I took which we actually worse and I agree the settings seem miles out ,on my film cameras in these lighting conditions I would have used 250th or 500th of a second exposure time whilst using 200 iso film ( my usual film) dependent on which camera I was using. I've tried using both manual and aperture priority and even borrowed a Canon EF lens but the camera always causes blown out shots in bright light, I've even tried using he sunny 16 rule I use on my film cameras ,using another camera as meter or an external meter and the problem still exists the real shame is it's quite good in poor light the best results were obtained by ignoring the meter and just setting aperture to make it look ok in the view finder that gave me about 50% success but destroyed some photos down to small depth of field. Using exposure compensation gave me massive under exposure in the low to medium light situations or made me lose the shadows completely in brighter light. I think in all fairness the camera maybe faulty or as pointed out I am expecting too much from an early DLSR .The shame is as a bit of fun I brought a 99p plastic focus free point and shoot film camera with fixed shutter speed and fixed aperture which produced better photos in varying light situation! Hence the reason I have chucked it , an act that as a skinflint did not come easy. Some of my film cameras have to be taped up to stop light leaks which I don't really mind.
 
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#9
Older sensors tend to blow highlights because of the limited dynamic range Suz mentions, but these shots are generally overexposed. I'd expect much better from even an early dSLR if nothing were faulty and the settings were appropriate. If the camera isn't already on its way to a landfill site, I'd go into the setup menu and reset everything to defaults just in case there's some setting that is messing up the exposure even in the lower ISO shots.
 
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#10
I have seen worse images from a failing digital camera. This from a Konica-Minolta Dynax 5D - this model had a history of failing CCDs - either that or it this one had been dropping LSD.

A view from a window.

PICT0003s.jpg
 
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#11
One of the benefits of digital is the instant feedback. Review the histogram and disregard the metering if the camera's reading is wrong, and retake with more appropriate settings.
 
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#12
I have seen worse images from a failing digital camera. This from a Konica-Minolta Dynax 5D - this model had a history of failing CCDs - either that or it this one had been dropping LSD.

A view from a window.
You're too late for the Photography and Abstract Art exhibition at the Tate, but if you have a couple of dozen of these and a convincing narrative, I think you have a shot at the Turner Prize next year ('Using a failing digital camera, David explores how our over-reliance on technology distorts our view of the world, and asks uncomfortable questions about our ultimate fate when this constructed reality breaks down altogether').
 
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#13
I think you may be able to blame user error here... see reply #3. Why ISO 1600 on what looks a bright sunny day?
I'd have to agree, completely inappropriate ISO, and waaay overexposed with a manual lens but somehow the camera gets the blame...

:rolleyes:
 
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#15
Quite frankly, why are you using ISO1600 on a bright, sunny day? In the nicest possible way, I'd suggest the problem with the digital camera is the operator - the Oly takes better shots because it can take over the exposure process completely.
This^

You were told months ago there’s problems with the camera / manual lens combination.

If the Olympus is showing you the settings for a perfectly exposed shot, why would you trust a camera meter that’s showing you something else completely?

Why allow a camera to set 1600 ISO on a bright sunny day?

As we said months ago, a sense check on camera settings isn’t difficult or out of the ordinary. It’s what we’d be expected to do when using non-standard equipment.
 
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#18
I tried a canon EF lens with the same results and did try a reset to defaults but with no difference. I have always had to post process the images from mid to low light turning up saturation by a massive amount as many of the images were near Black and white although some were o.k once this had been done and it has always struggled in bright light. I'm the first to admit that one I'm relatively new to photography and still have a lot to learn and have made many mistakes along the way ( fingers over the lens not loaded film correctly knocked the settings off and many more) and as pointed out allowing my self to automatically expect the technology to be working right rather than taking a good luck at them and thinking somethings not right here. When using it for some pinhole photography recently I discovered that the sensor was showing signs of being rather dirty or damaged and as a clean was more that the value of the camera it was all pointing in one direction.
Anyway it will be gone in the morning to the great incinerator in the sky ( or Dudley) and I can move on with my other many cameras and hopefully never be so infuriated by my hobby again ( fat chance).
 
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#19
I tried a canon EF lens with the same results and did try a reset to defaults but with no difference. I have always had to post process the images from mid to low light turning up saturation by a massive amount as many of the images were near Black and white although some were o.k once this had been done.
You can ajust the saturation in camera in the picture styles (at least on the later models I don't have a 10d to check) it maybe they've got turned down somehow.
 
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#21
I think maybe the OP needs a second opinion - from someone who can use the camera and confirm there's a fault or clear up any user error.

OP, do you know anyone locally who can help you out or maybe there's a good specialist shop in your area?

I had a 10D and I have some pictures I'm very happy with from that camera. I didn't use manual lenses on my 10D but I did on my somewhat similar 20D and they worked fine so I'm not sure what the problem is. If I was in the OP's area I'd happily take a look. Maybe someone could offer help?
 
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#22
Anyway it will be gone in the morning to the great incinerator in the sky ( or Dudley) and I can move on with my other many cameras and hopefully never be so infuriated by my hobby again ( fat chance).
Given it’s a piece of electronics with various noxious and other substances... I do hope you send it to a WEEE approved recycling centre...
 
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#23
not to sound like a snob or anything, but I always always shoot everything manual, because i've never really trusted the camera's metering, so I might take a test shot and adjust by eye based on whichever part of the exposure triangle I want to lock (i.e specific shutter speed target, or specific f stop), i'd never take shots that end up under/overexposed and then blame the camera- on auto modes the camera always makes images for me that are darker than I would like personally, so if i'm ever shooting in an automated mode i'm always shooting with exposure compensation up or down, that's just common sense really, the camera meter is just a simple device measuring the luminance of a scene, it's not a creative brain that knows what kinda shots you want to take
 
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#24
I also shoot in manual in most of the cameras I use mainly as I have no choice ( old tech no meters) and of course have the advantage that film is a bit more forgiving.I did get a friend at work who is very experienced and does a few paid jobs (weddings and some motor sport) he tried the camera with the manual lenses and said the settings seem out in comparison to the expected norm and suggested trying a genuine Canon lens ( which he couldn't help out with as he has always used Nikon) to work out if it was the camera or lens camera combination .
I later tried a Canon EF lens but again it was not very reliable some shots were o.k but with very pale colours and these tended to be shots with very little contrast difference. When I tried a number of shots of the same subject in auto it gave me varying exposure set up making it unpredictable, This was why the camera ended up in the cupboard in the first place, I guess what I had been after in the first place was basically a mechanical ,manual camera with a digital back rather than a menu driven camera, Something I was never really going to achieve in my price range ( ie: as near to nothing as possible).
 
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#25
I also shoot in manual in most of the cameras I use mainly as I have no choice ( old tech no meters) and of course have the advantage that film is a bit more forgiving.I did get a friend at work who is very experienced and does a few paid jobs (weddings and some motor sport) he tried the camera with the manual lenses and said the settings seem out in comparison to the expected norm and suggested trying a genuine Canon lens ( which he couldn't help out with as he has always used Nikon) to work out if it was the camera or lens camera combination .
I later tried a Canon EF lens but again it was not very reliable some shots were o.k but with very pale colours and these tended to be shots with very little contrast difference. When I tried a number of shots of the same subject in auto it gave me varying exposure set up making it unpredictable, This was why the camera ended up in the cupboard in the first place, I guess what I had been after in the first place was basically a mechanical ,manual camera with a digital back rather than a menu driven camera, Something I was never really going to achieve in my price range ( ie: as near to nothing as possible).
I had a 300d which was effectively the same sensor and most of the 10d features, and I can confirm that by modern standards it wasn’t the greatest thing in the world. However even at the highest ISO, with careful processing I could produce decent A3 prints.

I think all you’ve proved is that the metering is unreliable. And as you’re used to shooting manual, that’s hardly a handicap, closer to a distraction.

All you have to do is set the camera to the same settings as your compact, or guess and chimp.
 
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#27
There may be a problem with the metering, or the camera but that does not explain the 12 inches behind accepting settings that were wildly out for the conditions, the 10D does not have Auto ISO so the ISO, Shutter speed and aperture will have had to have been set by the user.... Surely those settings should have raised a warning.... But too late now I guess. Perhaps use it as a lesson to learn about exposure.
 
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#28
Given it’s a piece of electronics with various noxious and other substances... I do hope you send it to a WEEE approved recycling centre...
There's always the ebay disposal route - some people are asking £20 for a faulty 10D, or £70 for a good one.
 
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#29
I also shoot in manual in most of the cameras I use mainly as I have no choice ( old tech no meters) and of course have the advantage that film is a bit more forgiving.I did get a friend at work who is very experienced and does a few paid jobs (weddings and some motor sport) he tried the camera with the manual lenses and said the settings seem out in comparison to the expected norm and suggested trying a genuine Canon lens ( which he couldn't help out with as he has always used Nikon) to work out if it was the camera or lens camera combination .
I later tried a Canon EF lens but again it was not very reliable some shots were o.k but with very pale colours and these tended to be shots with very little contrast difference. When I tried a number of shots of the same subject in auto it gave me varying exposure set up making it unpredictable, This was why the camera ended up in the cupboard in the first place, I guess what I had been after in the first place was basically a mechanical ,manual camera with a digital back rather than a menu driven camera, Something I was never really going to achieve in my price range ( ie: as near to nothing as possible).
Pop into your nearest camera shop and ask to see something like a 17-50mm or whatever they have similar, ask to try it on the camera, they are normally happy enough to do this, now try a few shots in the shop, manual and aoto/program (whatever it has) see how it does then.
At least you have a comparrison.
 

GTG

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#30
Complete and utter b****x.

I’m happy to come and shoot alongside any cameraphone you have with a 20d to prove it.
That would not surprise me, the 20d has over 30% higher resolution and the digic 2 processor found in the 5d and 30d. New metering and all sorts of other advances.
Nobody even said anything about a 20d, I certainly did not.
Anyway I am not arguing about it, just replying because of the daft 20d comment.
 
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#31
Nobody even said anything about a 20d, I certainly did not.
Ha ha ha ...
but I would not even consider anything older that a 60d now. A smartphone will happy make mince meat out of these cameras to be fair.
Ha ha ha ha.

I’m not surprised you don’t want to get into a discussion about it.

:LOL:
 
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#32
I know all this is a bit irrelevant now but I've had a 300D, 10D and 20D and they're not bad :D They're not up to even todays MFT or possible even not up to 1" camera standards but they're certainly capable of nice A3 prints with the only proviso being don't push the shadows. These cameras are certainly useable.
 
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#33
Its 100% an issue with ISO set at 1600!! Thats way too high and its why you are getting your Canon images over exposed. I expect you have set a high ISO at some point for night photography and not set it back. Set it now to 100 which is likely the default standard setting. Always set the camera back to standard after making adjustments for these very reasons

I would also check your exposure setting plus make sure you dont have auto bracketing set.

Finally when you view an image you should also be able to view the exposure across the 0-100 scale. Viewing this regularly then you can check if the camera or you are correctly exposing images. If its way out then thats the big clue you have set something wrong.
Additionally I would recommend you shoot in aperture mode.
 
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#34
It’s user error I’m afraid. Did you not check the image in the lcd screen? I made the same mistake yesterday using 1/100sec and f/2. Checked the lcd, whoops. Sorted it out and no issue.
 
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#35
This^

You were told months ago there’s problems with the camera / manual lens combination.

If the Olympus is showing you the settings for a perfectly exposed shot, why would you trust a camera meter that’s showing you something else completely?

Why allow a camera to set 1600 ISO on a bright sunny day?

As we said months ago, a sense check on camera settings isn’t difficult or out of the ordinary. It’s what we’d be expected to do when using non-standard equipment.

should also add, in case you weren't aware of this, that camera settings are going to be the same across all makes, all models, so if you're olympus is giving you correct exposures at say 1/800, f5.6, iso 100, you plug those settings into your canon and you will get a fairly identical exposure

i'd say the problem you were having was that if you were shooting apperture/shutter priority or auto mode, since you set the iso to 1600, the shutter and aperture even at the highest shutter speed (guessing 1/4000) and f16 still wouldnt be dark enough to get a correct exposure
 
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#36
should also add, in case you weren't aware of this, that camera settings are going to be the same across all makes, all models, so if you're olympus is giving you correct exposures at say 1/800, f5.6, iso 100, you plug those settings into your canon and you will get a fairly identical exposure

i'd say the problem you were having was that if you were shooting apperture/shutter priority or auto mode, since you set the iso to 1600, the shutter and aperture even at the highest shutter speed (guessing 1/4000) and f16 still wouldnt be dark enough to get a correct exposure
Top and bottom of it is he does not understand the basics of exposure. Shocking really.
 
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#38
It seems the OP doesn't want to take feedback from lots of people that say ISO1600 on a sunny day is silly, and would rather throw the camera in the bin, after coming on here to rant about it first.
 
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#39
If one reads some of the OP's later comments here it can be seen that he uses manual cameras quite comfortably, so presumably understands how exposure works. It would seem, however, that either digital cameras are a problem for him (struggles with electronic settings) or this camera in particular deserves the fate it has received (it's busted and over-exposes all the time) and a fully functioning digital tool is required.

Sorry to disappoint, but it seems the torches and pitchforks aren't really needed today. ;)
 
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#40
If one reads some of the OP's later comments here it can be seen that he uses manual cameras quite comfortably, so presumably understands how exposure works. It would seem, however, that either digital cameras are a problem for him (struggles with electronic settings) or this camera in particular deserves the fate it has received (it's busted and over-exposes all the time) and a fully functioning digital tool is required.

Sorry to disappoint, but it seems the torches and pitchforks aren't really needed today. ;)
Maybe not pitchfork time but does ISO 1,600 at those shutter speeds in what looks like decent enough light seem likely to give anything other than the results we're seeing here?
 
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