The Formula 1 / IndyCar Thread

Bottas draws the “crash n bash” ball out the hat today.


And passed it to at least one other driver.
 
Aston Martin appeals Seb could be re instated yet
 
Mikesphotaes said:
Mercedes strategy dept. fails again!
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But did it? Mercedes would have likely come out at the back of the grid in any case. (Mercedes being the first garage as you enter the pits) and as we saw an unsafe exit by another team could have ended his race before he got on track
 
munch said:
But did it? Mercedes would have likely come out at the back of the grid in any case. (Mercedes being the first garage as you enter the pits) and as we saw an unsafe exit by another team could have ended his race before he got on track
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That was mentioned on the day, but to be fair, he would have been first in, but as soon as one went in, they all went in, by which time Hamilton had passed the pit lane.
 
Jelster said:
That was mentioned on the day, but to be fair, he would have been first in, but as soon as one went in, they all went in, by which time Hamilton had passed the pit lane.
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But as I mentioned the Mercedes garage being the first one as you enter the pits. All or most of the other cars would have passed him as they were changing their tyres. He would then had to traverse the rest of the pit lane with cars darting in and out.
 
mav said:
Russell said on the radio everyone will be in and change tyres thats how dry the track was, if hamilton came in he would be fiirst to change tyres and would have passed most of the field in the pit lane as he came out , just bad strategy by mercedes
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Sorry I don't agree, he would a) not have got out easy as the rest of the field came past him b) even if he did get out there was a chance he could have got caught up in someone else's release c) (purely tongue in cheek for this one) he does have history regarding pit lane exits (think Canada several years ago)
 
fuzzyedges said:
Aston Martin appeals Seb could be re instated yet
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I know they've appealed but I can't see how the DQ is going to be overturned. The rule is very clear about what has to happen with a fuel sample, even going down to what can be removed from the car in order to extract it. You have either satisfied the rule or you haven't, it's very black and white.
 
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RichardC27 said:
I know they've appealed but I can't see how the DQ is going to be overturned. The rule is very clear about what has to happen with a fuel sample, even going down to what can be removed from the car in order to extract it. You have either satisfied the rule or you haven't, it's very black and white.
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I think the basis of the appeal is that the fuel was in the car but the problem was extracting it.
The car has been put into quarantine pending the appeal, that being said, I'd be very surprised if it was overturned.
 
Hanley said:
I think the basis of the appeal is that the fuel was in the car but the problem was extracting it.
The car has been put into quarantine pending the appeal, that being said, I'd be very surprised if it was overturned.
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I know but the rule does cover how the fuel is extracted and what you are and are not allowed to do to get it out. It's quite a comprehensively written rule, I can't see any wiggle room in it that would form the basis of a successful appeal. The relevant rules say:

6.5.1 Competitors must provide a means of removing all fuel from the car.

6.5.2 Competitors must ensure that a 1.0 litre sample of fuel may be taken from the car at any time during the Competition.

6.5.4 The sampling procedure must not necessitate starting the engine or the removal of bodywork (other than the nosebox assembly and the cover over any refuelling connector).

Even if the fuel was in the car, you'd have to assume they've fallen foul of rule 6.5.4 and they can't get it out without removing bodywork/engine etc. It's not even the first time Vettel has had this happen to him, he was excluded from qualifying at Abu Dhabi in 2012 for the same reason.
 
RichardC27 said:
I know but the rule does cover how the fuel is extracted and what you are and are not allowed to do to get it out. It's quite a comprehensively written rule, I can't see any wiggle room in it that would form the basis of a successful appeal. The relevant rules say:

6.5.1 Competitors must provide a means of removing all fuel from the car.

6.5.2 Competitors must ensure that a 1.0 litre sample of fuel may be taken from the car at any time during the Competition.

6.5.4 The sampling procedure must not necessitate starting the engine or the removal of bodywork (other than the nosebox assembly and the cover over any refuelling connector).

Even if the fuel was in the car, you'd have to assume they've fallen foul of rule 6.5.4 and they can't get it out without removing bodywork/engine etc. It's not even the first time Vettel has had this happen to him, he was excluded from qualifying at Abu Dhabi in 2012 for the same reason.
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I agree, like I said above, I would be very surprised if any appeal was successful.
However, these rules were put in place before a lot of the monitoring became available that is used now, maybe they should be looking to see what rules are no longer required or need re-writing to bring them up to date with newer technologies.

None of this will help Seb though.
 
From whats been said even Aston cant get the required amount
There argument is they know what has been put in and they know whats been used all by sensors of one type or the other and there should be 1.4 liters left
They may have to alter there tank if its hiding fuel somewhere
 
The complicated world of F1
Aston martin have only notified their intention to appeal sebs disqualification they have 96 hours after putting in this intention to actually appeal
By thursday night we should know
For what its worth I reckon Lewis will be 2nd
 
Hanley said:
I agree, like I said above, I would be very surprised if any appeal was successful.
However, these rules were put in place before a lot of the monitoring became available that is used now, maybe they should be looking to see what rules are no longer required or need re-writing to bring them up to date with newer technologies.

None of this will help Seb though.
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The rule is there to allow the fuel to be tested to ensure that it is with in the parameters set within the fuel regs. Given there is no actual fuel tank size restriction just the rate of use and overall amount used in a race so a team can carry as much as they like. You would think that if there is a rule saying you need to get 1ltr out then they would test that they can get 1 ltr out if there is 1ltr left in the tank, given how everything is measured by fractions I cant believe that this hasnt been done by the team so either they put in less than they thought or used more than they should of
 
AgentOrange76 said:
The rule is there to allow the fuel to be tested to ensure that it is with in the parameters set within the fuel regs. Given there is no actual fuel tank size restriction just the rate of use and overall amount used in a race so a team can carry as much as they like. You would think that if there is a rule saying you need to get 1ltr out then they would test that they can get 1 ltr out if there is 1ltr left in the tank, given how everything is measured by fractions I cant believe that this hasnt been done by the team so either they put in less than they thought or used more than they should of
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Aston have said that by the numbers given by the sensors on the car on fuel usage and how much they put in, there is 1.4 litres of fuel somewhere in the car. The problem is they can't get it out without contravening the rule about what you're allowed to do to provide the sample.
 
So they say, but the rule is clear, the FIA want to be able to take a 1ltr sample at will, not when the team is able to extract it. They cant have it where a team can say give us an hour and we will get it for you. All the teams know the rules, all the teams spend inordinate amount of time testing and checking components. There is no way they dont know where that fuel is. Either they gambled and should of put 1 more litre in or fuel saved better. They clearly new they were on the edge because they stopped on the circuit. rather then do the post race lap. The only reason for that is that they had used to much of what they put in -not saying they used more than they are allowed-
 
I see that Dan Ticktum has been a tit again and blown another chance of being an F1 driver.
 
According to aston there was a lift pump fault thats why seb stopped on track
After them saying that it does seem a very conveniant failure
 
2021 Formula 1 Rolex Belgian Grand Prix

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Googlemaps Track Location
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Circuit of Spa-Francorchamps · Rte du Circuit 55, 4970 Stavelot, Belgium

★★★★★ · Racetrack
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Circuit de Spa-Francorchamps
Lap data
Lap length 7.004km (4.352 miles)
Race laps 44
Race distance 308.052km (191.415 miles)
Pole position Right-hand side of the track
Lap record* 1’47.263 (Sebastian Vettel, 2009)
Fastest lap 1’44.503 (Jarno Trulli, 2009, qualifying two)
Maximum speed 319.6kph (198.59 mph)
DRS zone/s (race) Pit straight and Kemmel straight
Distance from grid to turn one 271m
Full throttle 70%
Longest flat-out section 2015m
Downforce level Medium
Gear changes per lap 42
Fuel use per lap 2.39kg
Time penalty per lap of fuel 0.098s
Pit lane time loss 17.4s

UK Times
Friday 27th August 2021
Belgian Grand Prix Free Practice 1: 11:30-13:00 (UK time: 10:30-12:00)
Belgian Grand Prix Free Practice 2: 15:00-16:30 (UK time: 14:00-15:30)
Saturday 28th August 2021
Belgian Grand Prix Free Practice 3: 12:00-13:00 (UK time: 11:00-12:00)
Belgian Grand Prix Qualifying: 15:00 (UK time: 14:00)
Sunday 29th August 2021
Belgian Grand Prix: 15:00 (UK time: 14:00)


Previous Winners
2000 Finland Mika Häkkinen McLaren-Mercedes
2001 Germany Michael Schumacher Ferrari
2002 Germany Michael Schumacher Ferrari
2003 Not held
2004 Finland Kimi Räikkönen McLaren-Mercedes
2005 Finland Kimi Räikkönen McLaren-Mercedes
2006 Not held
2007 Finland Kimi Räikkönen Ferrari
2008 Brazil Felipe Massa Ferrari
2009 Finland Kimi Räikkönen Ferrari
2010 United Kingdom Lewis Hamilton McLaren-Mercedes
2011 Germany Sebastian Vettel Red Bull-Renault
2012 United Kingdom Jenson Button McLaren-Mercedes
2013 Germany Sebastian Vettel Red Bull-Renault
2014 Australia Daniel Ricciardo Red Bull-Renault
2015 United Kingdom Lewis Hamilton Mercedes
2016 Germany Nico Rosberg Mercedes
2017 United Kingdom Lewis Hamilton Mercedes
2018 Germany Sebastian Vettel Ferrari
2019 Monaco Charles Leclerc Ferrari
2020 United Kingdom Lewis Hamilton Mercedes

Videos

Heidfeld 2000
View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=16h_pFP0KBU


Eau Rouge on board 1987-2020
View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-iSGpnp-b7g



Standings

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2021 Formula 1 Heineken Dutch Grand Prix

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Googlemaps Track Location
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Zandvoort, Zandvoort Circuit · 2041 KG Zandvoort, Netherlands

★★★★☆ · Bus stop
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Circuit Zandvoort
Lap data
N/A

UK Times
Friday 3rd September 2021
Dutch Grand Prix Free Practice 1: 11:30-13:00 (UK time: 10:30-12:00)
Dutch Grand Prix Free Practice 2: 15:00-16:30 (UK time: 14:00-15:30)
Saturday 4th September 2021
Dutch Grand Prix Free Practice 3: 12:00-13:00 (UK time: 11:00-12:00)
Dutch Grand Prix Qualifying: 15:00 (UK time: 14:00)
Sunday 5th September 2021
Dutch Grand Prix: 15:00 (UK time: 14:00)


Previous Winners
1973 United Kingdom Jackie Stewart Tyrrell-Ford
1974 Austria Niki Lauda Ferrari
1975 United Kingdom James Hunt Hesketh-Ford
1976 United Kingdom James Hunt McLaren-Ford
1977 Austria Niki Lauda Ferrari
1978 United States Mario Andretti Lotus-Ford
1979 Australia Alan Jones Williams-Ford
1980 Brazil Nelson Piquet Brabham-Ford
1981 France Alain Prost Renault
1982 France Didier Pironi Ferrari
1983 France René Arnoux Ferrari
1984 France Alain Prost McLaren-TAG
1985 Austria Niki Lauda McLaren-TAG
1986-2020 Not held

Videos

Max lap last year on the new layout
View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GGu--_UHY_o


Tambay 1978
View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KoPwwFKFPxc



Standings

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I remember watching F1 at this track back in the early 80's. Cracking racing,

I think Lewis is going to have to have a go early on or at restarts after safety cars as Max is quick and it is a tough track to pass on.

Should be fun!
 
That banking is insane, steeper than Indianapolis. I did a bit of track cycling back in the seventies/eighties and Herne Hill in South London had 30' banking, which was a bit intimidating at the top.
I can see a few incidents today.
 
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