The lost craft of photography?

Err... rather subjective.

Indeed. You need to compare the best of both systems. Not the best a phone can do with the worst 110 image you can find!

Here is a shot of me with my father from around 1968 taken on Kodachrome with my mother's Instamatic.

Me%20and%20Dad.jpg



Steve.
 
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Exactly, the craft has shifted but there is still a craft. The craft is easier because technology generally makes things easier.

Which is my point. Less photographic craft is needed.

its either that or its equally possibly that because digital is more accessible, there are more people prepared to work with it as a medium

Yes.. because it's easier.

agreed, but it takes just a much skill to light a photo with digital as it does with film.

Agreed, but few would light that scene in such a way, because it's not deemed necessary; You could even photoshop those rays of light in.. seen it done a million times.

If you needed to get a finished photograph on a piece of film though, you couldn't get away with that.



As a simple case in point what would you do differently to short light a portrait on film you wouldn't do on digital, or how would you do it differently.

Ask yourself this... what would YOU do in order to get the portrait to look as good as you would want it to without ANY post processing at all?

What I'd do differently would be lighting to manage contrast, to give me a finished product. Greater use of scrims most likely to lower contrast, and I;d also ensure make-up was perfect to negate the need for retouching.


I was there Friday. I didn't have the benefit of a smoke machine, or high voltage strobes. But saying the knowledge to light that building has disappeared is wrong. I'll share the wedding after the couple have seen it.

I look forward to it. The un-retouched RAW file please :) After all, that's what I just posted.


Which is an interesting opinion. I'm not going to argue the skillset needed from a photographer has changed, but a shabbily lit photo is still shabbily lit, and as you often demonstrate incorrectly exposed photos look, well **** recovered in PP.

I can't agree more.


I dont know thats so true.
Sort of setting skill and the lengths you went to to light that scene, were rare even when pictures were made on film.

No they weren't. If you want everything absolutely perfect on a piece of film, you have to make everything perfect before you press the shutter. That was normal 20 or more years ago, especially with shots like this. It's still normal for someone like Gregory Crewdson now. I know several architectural photographers who work in the same way now, even on digital. They simply can't be arsed spending hours retouching. They'd rather spend that hour setting up lighting and taking care of the set instead. At least that's photography and not sitting on your arse at a computer. :)


Why would you expect them to become more common?

I don't. I never said I did either. I said they were becoming more rare. Personally I don't see why that should be, but the reality is, they are becoming rare. Photographers are less of a photographer and more of a digital artist these days. It's the nature of the medium. I'm not even saying this is wrong, or bad, or evil.. it just is. Things change.

There are more photographers, pursuing more elaborate photography, in digital, and an awful lot more practicing post-process.

Different skills. They're usually not in camera skills... not photographic skills. What happens now (by myself as much as anyone else) is that even when I do spend a great deal of time on lighting, I'm no longer aiming for a finished image in the camera. My skill set has changed. I'm less of a photographer than I used to be as a result.

Doesn't mean that there are fewer practisioners, or that of the practicioners there are, fewer of them are aquiring and demonstrating such elevated dexterity.

Of course it does. No one aims to get anything finished in camera any more, so the skills required have shifted from photography to the computer.



Facts are:
1/ Digital has opened up photography to more practisioners

I know... I never said it hasn't. But are they as skilled photographically as they used to be?

2/ Digital has offered easier access to a wider range of imaging tools

Digital Imaging tools, yes. Like I said, skills are shifting away from the camera.

3/ The 'Aceptable Quality Level' of a main-stream image has changed, and 'average' photo's are a lot better, these days.


I believe I said all this already.. yes, that is true.

You cant say in one breath, that you agree that in the film era, what won awards and accolades as a 'great' photo wouldn't even get past entry short-list now; then say that now, 'good enough' is showing a slip in standards!

Really? From any genre you care to mention, there have been awesome photographs from awesome photographers in the film era that would clean up in any awards you mention even today if they were being seen for the first time.

You reckon Gregory Crewdson wouldn't make the grade? Ansel Adams? Eamon McCabe? Horst P Horst? William Kline? William Eggleston? Irving Penn?

Please....

I think I know what you mean; at the avante guarde; it took a lot more to get a 'great' picture, when the medium was chemical & mechanical; and what was 'acceptable' was at a lot lower standard. (110 Instamatics!) What is now the 'acceptable' standard is a lot higher, but to explore the avante guarde and pushing the boundaries, fewer are prepared to put in the effort that was needed in the film era, and expect to do it all, in Digital Post-Process, utilising the possible easements of autamation, rather than first principles.

Isn't that was I've been saying all along though? That today's photographers have less photographic skill because they simply do not need it?


The change isn't even the camera... it's the power, and accessibility of digital retouching and image manipulation that has done it. That image above I posted is probably one of the last commercial jobs I shot where the client asked for a transparency. This is the difference. I carried on shooting film until commercially until around 2004/5, the difference was that clients stopped asking for trannies, and started asking for digital files. So we had to adapt.. we started to need film scanners, and computers. That's when the skillsets shifted... not when digital cameras arrived. The shift to digital imaging started before digital cameras became mainstream in the industry, and way before they did in the consumer sector.

When your client wanted a transparency, you had no choice but to get everything right in camera. Now they want a digital file, everything had changed, and the skills the photographer needed in the last century are no longer required to the same extent. Lots of people get upset if you suggest to them that you are a more skilled photographer technically because you used to shoot on film, but it's true. It required more skill with lighting and set building, and make up, and all the other things that made the product be finished on a piece of film than it does now, as the client now wants a file. Hand over a sleeve of transparency film to a client now and they'll just look at you like you're a moron.
 
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Yes.. because it's easier.

or cheaper, less hassle or any one of a million other reasons. You could just as easily take a badly thought through photo on film as you can on digital. I've hundreds of them ;). Just because something is more common doesn't mean its easier to do well.

The only thing digital has made easier is the spreading of mediocrity.




Ask yourself this... what would YOU do in order to get the portrait to look as good as you would want it to without ANY post processing at all?

What I'd do differently would be lighting to manage contrast, to give me a finished product. Greater use of scrims most likely to lower contrast, and I;d also ensure make-up was perfect to negate the need for retouching.


I deliberately asked a really simple question. What would you do differently to short light a subject between film and digital? The simple answer from me is 'nothing'. I know I can't replicate that effect in PS. It may be possible.......but I don't want to spend the time.

But for your longer answer, I would do nothing differently again. Well lit is well lit. As for retouching the makeup. A good MUA isn't really a lot to do with the photographers skill, as a photographer, other then maybe his eye for detail.
 
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I had an interesting conversation the other day when someone asked me why I was bothering to learn to use filters, when it could all be done with post processing. My simple answer was that I enjoy being outside with the camera, rather than at the computer.

I don't think the craft is lost, you still have to know about apertures, iso, the effect of light etc top take a successful photo.
 
:
3-22-2013_053.jpg

I think this was a shot of Menai Straights, probably Easter 1996. No filter ^

It is indeed the Menai Straits, taken from the Anglesey side, from the beach just east of Beaumaris. I was at that exact spot at the weekend. (y)

/offtopic
 
I had an interesting conversation the other day when someone asked me why I was bothering to learn to use filters, when it could all be done with post processing. My simple answer was that I enjoy being outside with the camera, rather than at the computer.

I don't think the craft is lost, you still have to know about apertures, iso, the effect of light etc top take a successful photo.

I think grad filters actually suit modern digital photography very well as they make the most of the instant feedback.
 
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Anyone keen to revive this thread?
 
Digital

Quite often when I feel "it's all about the image" - I use my M8 or Oly

When I take bird shots, which I do most of the time, I use two Nikon DSLR's, long lens, tripods etc., etc. ......... then I feel the processing is as important ......... obviously no image no processing ....... but I hope you get my drift
 
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I have a Mamiya M645J which I really only use for fun.

I have two lenses for it. The 80 and 45. Would not mind having a macro option but would REALLY like a waist-level level viewfinder.

I do my own black and white developing but I have to do my own E6 if I wanted to shoot colour.
 
I've still got all my film gear but wouldn't go back now digital is so much easier, for me anyway
The art or craft of picture taking hasn't changed in my opinion tho just the technical side is easier now
 
I wonder.

I can't judge all forums, nor all digital photographers, but I have noticed that when photographs are posted for critique, very often what is invariably suggested are Photoshop adjustments, including cloning out intrusive objects (that wouldn't have been in the frame with a change of position!). Obviously, I can't go back to what happened on forums pre digital, because there wouldn't be any photographs that could be posted; but critique then was more about choice of viewpoint than other things - the sort of thing you had to do in camera. Possibly my recollections are biased - but I do recall vividly a couple of occasions (not on this forum) when a comment of mine to the effect that if the viewpoint had been etc. etc then the photograph would have been better were countered by the comment that the suggested change couldn't be done in Photoshop (and, by implication) why bother mentioning it.

That's to my mind the missing craft skill - or perhaps the added blinker; that if something can't be fixed post exposure in Photoshop all discussion is ended. "Getting it right in camera" seems to be almost a mantra meaning "get the exposure right, get the focus right and the job's done". The other side of this is the "exploring the subject" idea - take photos from all possible positions in all possible orientations with all possible focal lengths, and then pick the best afterwards, knowing that you'll have it. You won't - you'll only have the best out of the photos you took; in my experience, a few inches change in position can make a big difference, and it's unlikely that unless you use the 4K (is it 4K?) method of using the video mode and selecting frames afterwards you'll have every small change of camera position covered.
 
I wonder.

I can't judge all forums, nor all digital photographers, but I have noticed that when photographs are posted for critique, very often what is invariably suggested are Photoshop adjustments, including cloning out intrusive objects (that wouldn't have been in the frame with a change of position!). Obviously, I can't go back to what happened on forums pre digital, because there wouldn't be any photographs that could be posted; but critique then was more about choice of viewpoint than other things - the sort of thing you had to do in camera. Possibly my recollections are biased - but I do recall vividly a couple of occasions (not on this forum) when a comment of mine to the effect that if the viewpoint had been etc. etc then the photograph would have been better were countered by the comment that the suggested change couldn't be done in Photoshop (and, by implication) why bother mentioning it.

That's to my mind the missing craft skill - or perhaps the added blinker; that if something can't be fixed post exposure in Photoshop all discussion is ended. "Getting it right in camera" seems to be almost a mantra meaning "get the exposure right, get the focus right and the job's done". The other side of this is the "exploring the subject" idea - take photos from all possible positions in all possible orientations with all possible focal lengths, and then pick the best afterwards, knowing that you'll have it. You won't - you'll only have the best out of the photos you took; in my experience, a few inches change in position can make a big difference, and it's unlikely that unless you use the 4K (is it 4K?) method of using the video mode and selecting frames afterwards you'll have every small change of camera position covered.
I can't see anyone being able to argue with your point here. Composition is the art for all intent and purpose, all the rest is more technique, although the choice of exposure and focal point obviously affect the composition in many cases. Processing is an art in and of itself that compliments the rest.
 
Digital has changed photography, that is for sure; and in many ways for the better.

Forgetting the mechanisms of making a picture, for a moment, 'digital' has opened, or at least prised wide, two doors.

1/ Digital Delivery.
Before digital, photography made a physical artifiact. A picture. Usually a print, on a bit of paper. Those artificats were presented to the viewer, either in an envelope you got from the chemists, or in an album, or in a book or magazine. Occassionally, perhaps, some sad chap would torture his freinds and family, pulling out a projector & darkening the living room to give a slide show of thier holiday snaps.
But for the most part, photo's were rarely seen, hidden away in the projector caroucelles, tucked in the back of bottom drawers, or stuck in albums getting dusty on book-shelves.
Published photo's obviousely got more exposure, but even then. Most were published in news-papers with a shelf life of a weeek, or magazines that might be kept a month until the next eddition came out, and preserved only in stacks on toilet floors until a women got fed up with them, or in Dentists waiting rooms!

2/ Indexing and Archiving.
In days of yore; the image was all. What you cought on the negative was all you got. I have hundreds of negatives that have come to me from my Grand-Parents after they died. I Might be able to tell from the film edge whether its a Kodak or Fuji film, and I might be able to tell if its a 100ASA or 200ASA, but not on all. I have no idea what camera the film was exposed in, what lens was on it, or what the shutter speed and appature might have been. I dont know who took the photo; I dont know when they took the photo, or unless there is something identifiable in the image, where, or of who.
Meanwhile, they are physical artifacts, subject to mechanical damage in storage & handling, and believe me, many are damaged. some have got damp. Some have been chewed by rodents. Others taken from thier sleeved are scratched to bludgery. And mixed up, and in no order, I often cant tell what strip belongs to what 'set' or came from what film.

Digital has pried open these to areas of photography. As far as indexing and archiving are concerned; well, it was possible in the olden days to be very very diligent, and keep manual records of your photo's and to store them in order, neatly and tidily... just wasn't very easy, or convenient, hence very common. Digital, Data Embedding, though; cameras record basic situation information within the image data-file. The EXIF data. The Camera, shutter & apature; Date, & time; possibly the lens setting, if not the lens. And, much more easily, extra info may be automatically or manu8ally added to this, and stored with the actual image file; GPS Co-Ords, Photographer's name & contact details, a Photo title, photographers comments. All making it a lot easier and more convenient to keep track of photo's and give them extra relevence as to what they are, and what they are showing us. AND instant, and lossless reproduction. There's no one master negative. Copy the file from SD card to CD... you have two copies. Photo's can be preserved, with much less risk of degredation or distruction.

Then we have digital delivery. Instant, lossless, almost costless reproduction.

If I wanted to show photo's of my kids Chrsitening to my brothers.. I had to wait until they came round and crack out the family album. Or I had to go through the pictures, pick out the ones they might be interested in, get copies printed, pop them in an envelope and post them to them. Now? I stick it on Face-Book... and they, with a couple of clicks, see the lot, 17" wide on the screen on thier lap! Pictures of my Daughter's Birthday Party? Grandad can see them, day after, ten thousand miles away, on another continent on hios frigging mobile phone!

Digital delivery has pulled photo's out of the cupboards, off shelves and put them where people can, and want to look at them.

Rest is just getting the best from your tools.

I tend to see the above digital delivery as 'throw-away'. I give a USB loaded with photographs to people and 12 months later they get around to viewing them or maybe seeing them again.

Printed photographs have a value - whether that is personal or monetary.

You and most of us, as people who take photographs, track them from taking to developing to archiving via HD, DVD / CD / USB and so forth. Most people, including our spouses don't. I have a 1TB drive full of drivel which I slowly empty only to be refilled but does she realise I'm removing anything lol.

These days, it's almost like it's the idea that you take a photo rather than what it looks like. And, then you dump it on a drive to be forgotten.
 
Few are disputing the merit of clean camera work; but your original hypothesis was that people shooting to post process, accepting sloppy in camera discipline were displaying a deterioration in the craft skills of the persuit.

They are not. They are merely utilising an extended skillset that doesn't place such cruciality on in camera discipline.

I think there are two things going on nowdays - photography and digital image creation. One does require skills in photography and the understanding, as it was when using film, of light and composition etc. The other requires good knowledge and skill in image manipulation which is a wholly different skillset.
 
3/ The 'Aceptable Quality Level' of a main-stream image has changed, and 'average' photo's are a lot better, these days.
Err... really - the average photo isn't taken on digial or mirrorless slr, most are on mobiles - by far. Do you really believe that most of the gumpf that comes out of these mobiles at night time because of the marketing says best nightime camera or something is actually good? That's one aspect, next is content - let's just not go there.
 
I can't see anyone being able to argue with your point here. Composition is the art for all intent and purpose, all the rest is more technique, although the choice of exposure and focal point obviously affect the composition in many cases. Processing is an art in and of itself that compliments the rest.

I'd put composition as a skill (that can be taught and learned) just as much as the skill sets used in the "technique". I suppose I could put my previous post more succinctly by simply saying that composition is the lost skill.
 
Err... You know I often struggle to remember what I posted yesterday, or last week, but children have been conceived, born, started eating solids and learned their alphabet, as well as how to play flappy-bird games on a smart-phone,, since I typed the stuff you are quoting!
Err... really - the average photo isn't taken on digial or mirrorless slr, most are on mobiles - by far. .
Err, this might be a little obtuse, but aren't camera-phones both digital and mirror-less? I presume you mean most contemporary photos aren't taken with a Digital SLR...
The 'cult' of the SLR, is something barely much older than the DSLR (or this thread?) They only really evolved with the common adoption of 35mm 'movie' film, after WWII, exploiting expensive precision manufacture to compensate for the small negative size, which filtered down to the enthusiast market in the 1960's, most often as cheaper, more compact and less compromised range-finders, Not SLR's, which started to gain favor in the 'enthusiast' arena, during the 1970' & 80's, as costs fell.
Throughout that era, 35mm SLR photography wasn't an esoteric state of excellence, and was largely co-coincident with 'casual' photography, most common with 220 or 110 cartridge cameras, or the more discerning casual photographer with a better 35mm range-finder.
Do you really believe that most of the gumpf that comes out of these mobiles at night time because of the marketing says best nightime camera or something is actually good?
It's good that folk have picked up a camera and are taking photo's with them....

Giving them a 'free' camera in a mobile phone they will likely take every where,and encouraging them to take photo's with it making those pictures effectively cost-less, has to be good, compared to the days when 110 compacts sat in draws between summer holidays or family outings, and folk DIDN'T use them trying to 'save' frames on their limited 24 exposure cartridge!

By shear odds, fact that more people are taking more cameras ore places and taking more pictures with them, means that they 'must' be taking more 'better' photos... as well as suggest we should expect as many more complete duffers.. except...... A modern camera-phone has in it's favor an awful lot of electrickery and expert programming, many consumer film cameras of not so long ago, that often didn't even take a battery lacked.

With a micro-sensor, that can deliver mega-pixel resolution, that is in effect focus free thanks to the incredibly short hyper-focal distance of such a short lens, then incredibly sophisticated electronic exposure metering and exposure control, as well as shot by shot variable ISO over a range far wider than the two or three dfferent film speeds you might have been able to buy for an Instamatic film camera, plus a WYSIWYG preview screen offering SLR like through-the-lens composition to avoid parallax error, forgotten lens caps or fingers infront of the taking lens, relatively powerful in built flash, the modern camera-phone offers an awful lot of numpty-proofing to increase the as delivered standard of photos they may take compared to equivalent consumer film cameras.

I may not particularly appreciate the hundreds of farce-broke photo's of beans on toast or Costa coffee cups standing by Big Ben etc etc, b-u-t, in terms of image quality they are usually far 'better' than the tru-print packs of happy snaps passed around in my youth, with 24 pictures in them, 1/4 probably black from being taken with an already used flash-cube, or with half a thumb obscuring the frame, even the better ones showing some curious colour shifts, or blur from hand-holding shake, or or or...

Mention of low-light shots, is co-incident, folk that attempt these more tricky situations with camera-phones may not be getting the best results, but they are getting some! When the 110 cartridge camera was popular, IF they tried anything so challenging they seldom got anything.... so, supporting suggestion, the standards have improved.. something.... even if its no master-piece is better than nothing!

But, the major shift IS that more folk are carrying so many 'better' picture takers, A-N-D taking photo's with them; and irrespective of the technical merits, they are, by both the popularity of the medium and the available display mechanisms, not just taking, but seeing more photo's and being challenged by that to up their own game, whether taking more imaginative photo's or more technically competent ones, the general quality level has improved, in almost all areas.

If I trawled through my archive of film megs,there are horrors galore in my own negs, let alone the shoe-boxes of 110 or 220 negs dumped on me to scan "So we can all see whats on them" by relatives who've put old aunts or uncles in a home! You just never saw the worst of the worst from the film-only-era, as it never got show to any-one! You rarely got to see much of the best, either, stuck in projector carousels, or buried in shoe boxes in the attic, and only if you were lucky stuck in an album in the living room to be pulled out once a decade when Gt Aunt Ethel's god-daughter from Australia popped in because she was told to look you up when she was in the country!

I don't think that digital is inherently any more "disposable" than film, when yes, because of the cost and scarcity so many DID hang on to so many more photos... and as the bequeathed negs suggest, often pretty dire ones! Yet, how many folk of the film-only era can find photo's they took when they were at school, thirty, forty, fifty years ago? How many of the modern age, will in twenty thirty or forty years, possibly not have SD cards or Hard Drive archives of their old photo's but, have them pop up in farce-broke announcements under banners, "Do you remember this from umpety years ago".. crickey I get them now for photo's that I uploaded only last year! A-N-D when I'm dead and burned, that infrastructure of the digi-domain will offer far more contextual 'meaning' or at least explanation of the photo's that are left behind, than the anonymous negs I have been bequeathed, in which I often know not who took them, who is in them, where they were taken, or when, let alone why!

Its an entire push-pull cause and effect sea-change of photo-taking culture, that on the whole, I say HAS seen the general 'standard' of photo's improve, both in execution and expectation.
 
I wonder if it's time to lay the old saw of "it doesn't matter - I'll fix it in post" to rest now? It's a comment I've seen repeated inumerable times over the last few years, yet never heard it suggested as a viable approach. I am of course differentiating this from photos that are taken with the deliberate intention of modification in post processing, rather than fixing faults afterwards that weren't seen at the time of capture.

Stephen's point about composition & view, and moving to a better position has never stopped being relevant - that side of photography won't change.
 
Err... You know I often struggle to remember what I posted yesterday, or last week, but children have been conceived, born, started eating solids and learned their alphabet, as well as how to play flappy-bird games on a smart-phone,, since I typed the stuff you are quoting!

Err, this might be a little obtuse, but aren't camera-phones both digital and mirror-less? I presume you mean most contemporary photos aren't taken with a Digital SLR...
The 'cult' of the SLR, is something barely much older than the DSLR (or this thread?) They only really evolved with the common adoption of 35mm 'movie' film, after WWII, exploiting expensive precision manufacture to compensate for the small negative size, which filtered down to the enthusiast market in the 1960's, most often as cheaper, more compact and less compromised range-finders, Not SLR's, which started to gain favor in the 'enthusiast' arena, during the 1970' & 80's, as costs fell.
Throughout that era, 35mm SLR photography wasn't an esoteric state of excellence, and was largely co-coincident with 'casual' photography, most common with 220 or 110 cartridge cameras, or the more discerning casual photographer with a better 35mm range-finder.

It's good that folk have picked up a camera and are taking photo's with them....

Giving them a 'free' camera in a mobile phone they will likely take every where,and encouraging them to take photo's with it making those pictures effectively cost-less, has to be good, compared to the days when 110 compacts sat in draws between summer holidays or family outings, and folk DIDN'T use them trying to 'save' frames on their limited 24 exposure cartridge!

By shear odds, fact that more people are taking more cameras ore places and taking more pictures with them, means that they 'must' be taking more 'better' photos... as well as suggest we should expect as many more complete duffers.. except...... A modern camera-phone has in it's favor an awful lot of electrickery and expert programming, many consumer film cameras of not so long ago, that often didn't even take a battery lacked.

With a micro-sensor, that can deliver mega-pixel resolution, that is in effect focus free thanks to the incredibly short hyper-focal distance of such a short lens, then incredibly sophisticated electronic exposure metering and exposure control, as well as shot by shot variable ISO over a range far wider than the two or three dfferent film speeds you might have been able to buy for an Instamatic film camera, plus a WYSIWYG preview screen offering SLR like through-the-lens composition to avoid parallax error, forgotten lens caps or fingers infront of the taking lens, relatively powerful in built flash, the modern camera-phone offers an awful lot of numpty-proofing to increase the as delivered standard of photos they may take compared to equivalent consumer film cameras.

I may not particularly appreciate the hundreds of farce-broke photo's of beans on toast or Costa coffee cups standing by Big Ben etc etc, b-u-t, in terms of image quality they are usually far 'better' than the tru-print packs of happy snaps passed around in my youth, with 24 pictures in them, 1/4 probably black from being taken with an already used flash-cube, or with half a thumb obscuring the frame, even the better ones showing some curious colour shifts, or blur from hand-holding shake, or or or...

Mention of low-light shots, is co-incident, folk that attempt these more tricky situations with camera-phones may not be getting the best results, but they are getting some! When the 110 cartridge camera was popular, IF they tried anything so challenging they seldom got anything.... so, supporting suggestion, the standards have improved.. something.... even if its no master-piece is better than nothing!

But, the major shift IS that more folk are carrying so many 'better' picture takers, A-N-D taking photo's with them; and irrespective of the technical merits, they are, by both the popularity of the medium and the available display mechanisms, not just taking, but seeing more photo's and being challenged by that to up their own game, whether taking more imaginative photo's or more technically competent ones, the general quality level has improved, in almost all areas.

If I trawled through my archive of film megs,there are horrors galore in my own negs, let alone the shoe-boxes of 110 or 220 negs dumped on me to scan "So we can all see whats on them" by relatives who've put old aunts or uncles in a home! You just never saw the worst of the worst from the film-only-era, as it never got show to any-one! You rarely got to see much of the best, either, stuck in projector carousels, or buried in shoe boxes in the attic, and only if you were lucky stuck in an album in the living room to be pulled out once a decade when Gt Aunt Ethel's god-daughter from Australia popped in because she was told to look you up when she was in the country!

I don't think that digital is inherently any more "disposable" than film, when yes, because of the cost and scarcity so many DID hang on to so many more photos... and as the bequeathed negs suggest, often pretty dire ones! Yet, how many folk of the film-only era can find photo's they took when they were at school, thirty, forty, fifty years ago? How many of the modern age, will in twenty thirty or forty years, possibly not have SD cards or Hard Drive archives of their old photo's but, have them pop up in farce-broke announcements under banners, "Do you remember this from umpety years ago".. crickey I get them now for photo's that I uploaded only last year! A-N-D when I'm dead and burned, that infrastructure of the digi-domain will offer far more contextual 'meaning' or at least explanation of the photo's that are left behind, than the anonymous negs I have been bequeathed, in which I often know not who took them, who is in them, where they were taken, or when, let alone why!

Its an entire push-pull cause and effect sea-change of photo-taking culture, that on the whole, I say HAS seen the general 'standard' of photo's improve, both in execution and expectation.
I dont think bringing up those who doesnt care in a Thread concerning the craft of photography.
BTW i can still find old boxes from 40 years ago with prints from my old instamatic. Technically crap but nonetheless memories. The pics made with my phone though..............
 



It is still the same to me… old or new, only the tools have
changed making for great differences in the processes and
the equipment but none in the creative thinking.

I spend nights in the darkroom with Crosby, Stills & Nash as
now I work in the dark PP room with Knopfler and others. :cool:
 
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Some very valid arguments here and I am not sure if what I have to add is worth adding...

Photography IMHO is a tool and a means to an end. If the output and end result justifies the gear, why not?

Let's simply get out there and create images for whatever purpose!
 
Will be technically cap but nonetheless memories?
Hmm try to explain. The technical aspect of the image quality, focus, sharpness, grain etc is crappy. Makes sense? What you meant? :)

Edit. Hmm a joke there, DOO :banghead:
ok got it :LOL:

If the images makes it through and don't get lost like a majority of my phone captured did then yes.
 
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It is still the same to me… old or new, only the tools have
changed making for great differences in the processes and
the equipment but none in the creative thinking.

I spend nights in the darkroom with Crosby, Stills & Nash as
now I work in the dark PP room with Knopfler and others. :cool:
Wooow going digital changes ones taste in music? Sticking with film then I will :eek: :ROFLMAO:
 
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end up listening to Justin Bieber tracks

Though I am Canadian, I totally agree with the
shameful and embarrassing thought.

Dire Straits was good but alone, Mark is way better!
 
Though I am Canadian, I totally agree with the
shameful and embarrassing thought.

Dire Straits was good but alone, Mark is way better!
I shall be sure to look for some on Youtube.

Big River with Jimmy Nail is one of my fave sentimental songs...such memories!
 
I had to google that… never heard of that

You lost… now push the money on my side of the table, will you!

Soeren is the one who hands over the money (for being Yoda). And you're from Canada eh? - you must like the Hip for sure. ;)
 
you must like the Hip for sure

  1. That band is English Canadian culture not French Canadian culture.

  2. I left Canada in 1989 for a geo-politic reportage job and haven't gone back since

  3. Ask your local Yoda to enlarge your margin of credit… I'm waiting :bat:
 
  1. That band is English Canadian culture not French Canadian culture.
  2. I left Canada in 1989 for a geo-politic reportage job and haven't gone back since
  3. Ask your local Yoda to enlarge your margin of credit… I'm waiting :bat:

1. Apparently they are Canada's biggest rock band, practically a national treasure. https://www.newyorker.com/culture/c...adas-biggest-rock-band-say-a-dramatic-goodbye

2. If you'd gone to any other country but Austria I'd have said you were nuts ;)

3. Your winnings* have been transferred to your bank account - don't spend it all at once. :cool:


*It's that language thing - I had no idea what you were talking about at first.
 
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