The Official Fuji X10/X20/X30/XF1/XQ1 Thread

Having read the previous thread and seen the great photos that have been taken with these cameras I've been thinking about a P&S camera for a while. I'm wanting a smaller camera to be able to carry about when I don't want to carry a DSLR.

Which of these cameras would everyone suggest? I was thinking of a X10 but I'm now quite impressed with the XF1 but not sure about the lack of a viewfinder. Is the X20 worth the extra over the X10 and XF1?
 
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Well, we toddled off to Dungeness today, mainly to give the dogs a day out and to get some photos for the Idiot challenge, but I took the X10 too. Not too much of great excitement, but a couple I like...


DSCF3846 by Yvonne White - WhiteGoldImages, on Flickr


DSCF3851 by Yvonne White - WhiteGoldImages, on Flickr



however... *drumroll please* ..... I also got....


DSCF3840 by Yvonne White - WhiteGoldImages, on Flickr


OK, it's rubbish photographically, but just to prove I have finally got the better of the pano setting :woot: :LOL: Thanks to everyone that had helped (y)


oh and yes, bloody lens needs a wipe with a hanky :LOL:
 
rob-nikon said:
Having read the previous thread and seen the great photos that have been taken with these cameras I've been thinking about a P&S camera for a while. I'm wanting a smaller camera to be able to carry about when I don't want to carry a DSLR.

Which of these cameras would everyone suggest? I was thinking of a X10 but I'm now quite impressed with the XF1 but not sure about the lack of a viewfinder. Is the X20 worth the extra over the X10 and XF1?
Click to expand...

I can only really comment on the X10 as being a great little point on shoot for when you don't want to lug the big stuff. Several people in here have owned both X10 and X20 and at least one has had all 3.

TBH, I opted for the X10 because it had viewfinder, didn't think I could live without one either - in truth I don't use it often, BUT it is very useful when the light is bright and you simply can't see the LCD, or as you will see from recent posts, I have just found it to be the best way to use the pano feature for me.

Pretty sure those that have had more of these bodies than me can give you a quick low down on the 'varieties' available (y)
 
rob-nikon said:
Which of these cameras would everyone suggest? I was thinking of a X10 but I'm now quite impressed with the XF1 but not sure about the lack of a viewfinder. Is the X20 worth the extra over the X10 and XF1?
Click to expand...

I can't comment on the last question, other than to say I've been a bit worried that the change of sensor to the X-trans might take away some of the EXR "magic" from the X10 (all that pixel-binning, higher dynamic range stuff etc). It would be great if someone who has owned both (or better still, HAS both) could comment?

I did try a XF-1 in the shop once (photographic shops, remember them?). I thought a truly pocketable version of the X10 HAS to be a good idea. But whereas the way of turning on the X10 is second nature to me now, turning on the XF-1 was just... weird. Maybe you'd get used to it, but if you're interested, either try and find a photographic shop which has one to try, or buy from a well-known retailer that accepts returns (even if they don't pay much tax...).
 
rob-nikon said:
...Is the X20 worth the extra over the X10 and XF1?
Click to expand...

In a word; yes! :)

Both cameras are excellent and if money's tight, go for the X10... The performance improvements between the X10 and X20 are noticeable but maybe only if you've already spent time with both.

I wouldn't be unhappy with either but since I'm in a permanent state of G.A.S. I had to go for the newer version. :)
 
Rob, I think I may be the person Yv's referring to as having owned all 3. I originally wanted a camera that was suitable for photography as well as happy snapping but that fitted in a shirt pocket, so I went to my local (well stocked) camera shop with the full intention of leaving with either an X-10 or a 1 series Nikon. It was easy to talk myself out of the Nikon since I can't see enough advantages in an interchangeable lens system other than weight and bulk reduction - IF I want to carry a bagful of kit, I'm (thankfully now) able to carry the full DSLR kit. The X-10 unfortunately doesn't quite fit the pocket so that was rejected too. Luckily, the XF-1 had just been released and fitted the bill (and the pocket!) perfectly. More than capable of returning the same excellent results as the X-10 (it shares the same guts but has a different lens and handles slightly differently) and well pocketable.

Soon after, an X-10 kit cropped up in the classifieds here, complete with a posh case, assorted accessories and a hotshoe flash that also fitted my bridge camera so I bought the kit to have a proper extended play with the X-10, having only had a shop fondle and a quick play with Jon/Yv's. Much as I liked the OVF and other features, the total lack of any info in the viewfinder bugged me so when a mate expressed an interest in buying it for his wife, I let it go, with the intention of waiting for the X-20 to get cheaper.

Which it did, and the price drop coincided with me deciding to part with a couple of rarely used lenses which were worth the new cost of the X-20. I now have a compact with a reasonable OVF that carries basic exposure information and which takes excellent photos - or would if I was better!!! I invested in another of the clever petal type lens caps so the cap opens as the camera's turned on and the lens extends so there's no chance of leaving the cap on... (Only once on the X-10 before the [already ordered] petal cap arrived!) Haven't noticed any extra image quality from the X-20 over the X-10 or (yet) any moiré patterning problems (apparently, moiré is better controlled by the Fuji photodiode arrangement than it is by the more traditional Beyer pattern) but I only print up to A3...

None of the baby X series are perfect and both the ones I still have serve slightly different purposes. If I want something that'll sit in a pocket, the XF-1 comes with me but if I'm going out with the intention of shooting and don't mind having a camera slung round my neck, I'll take the X-20. While it would be nice to have the extra features of the X-20 in the XF-1, they would make the camera bulkier and then only one I really miss (the viewfinder) on the XF-1 isn't perfect on the X-20. While it does carry a certain amount of information WRT exposure, it doesn't have the level showing and the exposure info can get hidden in the image over which it's overlaid. Maybe the X-30 will address these points (anyone from Fujifilm looking in?)

Sorry for the essay (and the repetition for those who've read it [or similar] from me before) but it bears repeating for those newcomers to the baby X cameras who might not have read the previous threads.
 
Time for me to contribute my first recent X10 shot into this thread :)
It's a typical of the use my camera gets at social events.
Yesterday was a local Zip-Wire and Abseil fund raiser followed by a BBQ and live music - and I was doing the photography.
I used the big cameras during the day and the X10 during the evening; it's pretty much the perfect camera for social photography.

BBQ, live music and a bar walkable from home - perfect :)
i-pTvxxgp-S.jpg


The sky outside was quite interesting - first we had a lovely Mackerel sky.
i-Z5VmGWD-S.jpg


Then it lit up fiery red.
i-xLtFfbC-S.jpg


I'll be sharing some of the big camera images elsewhere on TP as they worked way better than I expected.
In particular the shots of people being belayed up the chaotic inside of the bell tower using my 8mm fisheye - I've already got orders for prints :)
 
Yv said:
I can only really comment on the X10 as being a great little point on shoot for when you don't want to lug the big stuff. Several people in here have owned both X10 and X20 and at least one has had all 3.

TBH, I opted for the X10 because it had viewfinder, didn't think I could live without one either - in truth I don't use it often, BUT it is very useful when the light is bright and you simply can't see the LCD, or as you will see from recent posts, I have just found it to be the best way to use the pano feature for me.

Pretty sure those that have had more of these bodies than me can give you a quick low down on the 'varieties' available (y)
Click to expand...

It is only a personal opinion But so far I much prefer the X20. Though I think the X10 ability to pair up pixes in difficult light makes it the high Iso winner.

The button arrangement on the X20 is far better. If you hold the Q button it goes into bright screen mode and holding the back button sets it into silent mode. almost all the other setting feature have been rethought for the better.

There is a big improvement in Raw mode with Silkypix doing a better job than PS. You can remove a lot of the over smoothing of noise detail that can be a problem with both cameras in Jpegs.

There is sufficient detail in the Optical viewfinder to make it useful. But then I am used to manual cameras with limited information.
I use the AFL/AEL button quite a lot , and use it to set focus in manual mode.
The focus is generally better now that it is a hybrid sort.



I got my X20 from The refurbished store and after using discount code it only cost me £360 which I think is a bargain.

On my wish list is a better 120% optical viewfinder with Parallax on the overlay. and a firmware means of setting it true.
I would also like to be able to set a minimum shutter speed for flash when using PSA modes.
 
Thanks Terry and Nod, there's lots of good info there. I keep wondering about swapping for an X20, but I keep deciding to spend a bit more money on lenses etc for my film cameras, and maybe get a MILC at some point (X-Pro1, 2???). I still love my X10!
 
thanks for everyones replies. i think im going to go and look at them in a shop and decide from there.at present im thinking of the xf1 as like many of you have said it fits nicely in a pocket. i can live without a viewfinder. the main reason to get one is to be able to take every where,if im going out to shoot then the dslr and 17-55 is used. really what something thats small and easy for the wife to use, and something i will use too that takes good quality images. our current cheap compact is not used as the photos are no where near as good as a dslr. these fuji's look like the perfect compact for us.
 
ChrisR said:
Thanks Terry and Nod, there's lots of good info there. I keep wondering about swapping for an X20, but I keep deciding to spend a bit more money on lenses etc for my film cameras, and maybe get a MILC at some point (X-Pro1, 2???). I still love my X10!
Click to expand...

I got over my love problem for the X10 by keeping both.....:D
 
Hi all, after a bit of advice.

I've had my X10 for over a year and have been really pleased with the results most of the time.

However, one of the reasons for buying was to take pictures of my daughter - I got some great images when she was tiny (and still!), but now she's 18 months old and a livewire I'm struggling to get a sharp image at all.

This is even happening outside, particularly when I try and get a fullish frame shot. I've tried A mode at between f3 and f4, S mode at 1/500+, EXR and even sports mode. 95% are either soft or focussed on something completely different. I've pretty much abandoned taking shots inside.

I'm strongly considering getting an SLR just for better autofocus, but I love the look and size of the X10.

Am I doing something radically wrong or is it just one of those things with the camera that I either live with or means that I sell.

Thanks for any suggestions.
 
In the menu, check you're set to AF Mode "Area" (page 3 of the menu on the X-20, not 100% sure on the X-10). For most normal uses, the X-10 is happy up to ISO 800 and you can get away with ISO 1600 at a push (if you can accept a little noise - better than no image IMO!)
 
narbs said:
Hi all, after a bit of advice.

I've had my X10 for over a year and have been really pleased with the results most of the time.

However, one of the reasons for buying was to take pictures of my daughter - I got some great images when she was tiny (and still!), but now she's 18 months old and a livewire I'm struggling to get a sharp image at all.

This is even happening outside, particularly when I try and get a fullish frame shot. I've tried A mode at between f3 and f4, S mode at 1/500+, EXR and even sports mode. 95% are either soft or focussed on something completely different. I've pretty much abandoned taking shots inside.

I'm strongly considering getting an SLR just for better autofocus, but I love the look and size of the X10.

Am I doing something radically wrong or is it just one of those things with the camera that I either live with or means that I sell.

Thanks for any suggestions.
Click to expand...

Most unsharpness is caused by two main factors. shake and not pointing and focusing on your intended target.
A third "more modern problem" is not giving any time for the camera to focus, by pressing the shutter in a single motion. Unless your X10 is set on continuous focus It does not start the process until the button is half pressed. it needs two distinct actions.

The X20 has some advantages in all these areas. It has a faster hybrid focusing action. It shows a focus point on half press in the viewfinder... which helps avoid focusing on the wrong thing.

However Moving children can sometime be better taken using the face detection option, which also invokes continuous focus.

A DSLR would give you very similar problems, as few are much faster to find focus than an x10 and even fewer than the X20.
It is mostly a question of Technique and practise.
 
Nod said:
In the menu, check you're set to AF Mode "Area" (page 3 of the menu on the X-20, not 100% sure on the X-10). For most normal uses, the X-10 is happy up to ISO 800 and you can get away with ISO 1600 at a push (if you can accept a little noise - better than no image IMO!)
Click to expand...

Terrywoodenpic said:
Most unsharpness is caused by two main factors. shake and not pointing and focusing on your intended target.
A third "more modern problem" is not giving any time for the camera to focus, by pressing the shutter in a single motion. Unless your X10 is set on continuous focus It does not start the process until the button is half pressed. it needs two distinct actions.

The X20 has some advantages in all these areas. It has a faster hybrid focusing action. It shows a focus point on half press in the viewfinder... which helps avoid focusing on the wrong thing.

However Moving children can sometime be better taken using the face detection option, which also invokes continuous focus.

A DSLR would give you very similar problems, as few are much faster to find focus than an x10 and even fewer than the X20.
It is mostly a question of Technique and practise.
Click to expand...

Thanks both.

I'll check the AF settings tonight and spend the weekend taking a load of shots before making any further decision.
 
Fingers crossed for you Jon.

As Terry has just said, follow the action, trying to keep the subject in the middle of the frame/viewfinder (had forgotten that the X-10 doesn't show a focus point in the OVF) with the shutter button half pressed in AF-C. Try the face detection option too (again, as suggested by Terry.)
 
Nod said:
Fingers crossed for you Jon.

As Terry has just said, follow the action, trying to keep the subject in the middle of the frame/viewfinder (had forgotten that the X-10 doesn't show a focus point in the OVF) with the shutter button half pressed in AF-C. Try the face detection option too (again, as suggested by Terry.)
Click to expand...

I am not sure that keeping the shutter button half pressed in af-c works with the X10. From my observation i beleive that keeping it half pressed locks focus. I thing af-c works all the time without pressing the button trying to keep focus, bit normaly it happens a little bit slow.
It is possible to capture moving objects with the fuji, but everybody should try and find what works best for him. Depends on DOF you want to have. Somethimes i use prefocusing in manual focus mode because there is almost no shutter lag.
 
I'll also add - don't fight the camera :)
If you just want the shot to work, flip it into green square mode and let the camera do the work. The little Fuji's do a pretty good job of working the settings out.
When you get the confidence that the beasty is capable of delivering the images you want, then take control...
 
Too true Duncan!
 
Nod said:
Fingers crossed for you Jon.

As Terry has just said, follow the action, trying to keep the subject in the middle of the frame/viewfinder (had forgotten that the X-10 doesn't show a focus point in the OVF) with the shutter button half pressed in AF-C. Try the face detection option too (again, as suggested by Terry.)
Click to expand...

A half press will lock the focus at that point, which is fine if you know it is not going to move. Otherwise a slight hesitation at the lock point is all that is necessary as the camera will mostly focus in .06 of a second.
 
DuncanDisorderly said:
I'll also add - don't fight the camera :)
If you just want the shot to work, flip it into green square mode and let the camera do the work. The little Fuji's do a pretty good job of working the settings out.
When you get the confidence that the beasty is capable of delivering the images you want, then take control...
Click to expand...

:agree:

That's why I shoot mine in RAW+JPEG... The JPEGS are generally good enough for most things but I've got the flexibility to tweak the RAW files if I need to. With the 16gb card on board, I've got plenty of shots to do both. :)
 
sk66 said:
I gather one of the reasons for this thread is to share what you can do with the camera.

One of the main things I like about the x-20 is the DOF from the smaller sensor.
Click to expand...

Just had a look at your shots on Flicker I am surprised that you use such high ISO for some of them. But they are cracking sharp (sharper than some of your D800 ones)
Just shows what a little camera can do.
 
Terrywoodenpic said:
Just had a look at your shots on Flicker I am surprised that you use such high ISO for some of them. But they are cracking sharp (sharper than some of your D800 ones)
Just shows what a little camera can do.
Click to expand...
Thanks. The ISO was to get a decent SS @ smaller aperture. DOF while handheld. "Smaller aperture" means ~f/5-8 on the Fuji as it's into diffraction beyond that (but I'll use smaller if I really need to).
 
They look quite stunning, Steven.

Not in the same league, but I read something recently about including contrast in shots, and it reminded me of this one, taken shortly after I got the X10 last year. I was up above Salisbury Crags in Edinburgh on a really misty morning, and I'd just take a shot of this gully with the city emerging from the mist behind, when this young lady appeared out of the gully (which has 100 foot drop at the bottom of it), and went round and stared out over the city. I suspect the X10 was on Velvia, which adds to the contrast between the very solid foreground and the misty background. Anyway, I like it!

 
Nod said:
Fingers crossed for you Jon.

As Terry has just said, follow the action, trying to keep the subject in the middle of the frame/viewfinder (had forgotten that the X-10 doesn't show a focus point in the OVF) with the shutter button half pressed in AF-C. Try the face detection option too (again, as suggested by Terry.)
Click to expand...

Had a look at some of the photos I was unhappy with and shutter speeds were all in the 1/40 region.

Popped the X10 in S mode with shutter at 1/125, enabled face detection and eureka, a couple of pin-sharp shots.

So thanks again :clap:
 
sk66 said:
Thanks. The ISO was to get a decent SS @ smaller aperture. DOF while handheld. "Smaller aperture" means ~f/5-8 on the Fuji as it's into diffraction beyond that (but I'll use smaller if I really need to).
Click to expand...

In the normal way such a sensor lens configuration would be suffering noticeable effects of Diffraction even before F5.6. however Fuji use Lens Modulation Optimisation which counters this effect enabling an aperture of F8 to be used with the X20. which gives it a noticeable advantage over the X10 which predates the introduction of this technology.

http://fujifilm-x.com/development_story/en/processor/
 
I find the x20 good up to f/5.6-8 and ISO 800 even being very critical (pixel peeping). I find the IQ takes a big hit beyond ISO 800 and a lesser hit above f/8 (subject/lighting dependent).
 
narbs said:
Had a look at some of the photos I was unhappy with and shutter speeds were all in the 1/40 region.

Popped the X10 in S mode with shutter at 1/125, enabled face detection and eureka, a couple of pin-sharp shots.

So thanks again :clap:
Click to expand...

:clap: good news, so at least you know where things were wrong and tbh, any camera would have probably had same issues at those kind of shutter speeds, so onwards and upwards, lets start seeing some of those newly sharp images (y)
 
sk66 said:
I find the x20 good up to f/5.6-8 and ISO 800 even being very critical (pixel peeping). I find the IQ takes a big hit beyond ISO 800 and a lesser hit above f/8 (subject/lighting dependent).
Click to expand...

I am sure you are right, harping back to film days quality took a big hit after ISO400 but no one expected any different. Grain was mostly proportional to speed. whereas detail was inversely proportional to grain. As a result quality was seen more a question of the representation of tone values.
 
Jeff, consider one of these "flower" caps - they open as the lens extends. I had one on my X-10 and got another for my X-20 (the original went with the X-10.) Originally suggested by Yv who has one on her X-10.
 
Yv said:
:clap: good news, so at least you know where things were wrong and tbh, any camera would have probably had same issues at those kind of shutter speeds, so onwards and upwards, lets start seeing some of those newly sharp images (y)
Click to expand...

Composition is nothing special but very pleased with the sharpness.


Aneira by narbs3231, on Flickr
 
Hi Guys

Just to let you know my 6 months old x20 up for sale in classifieds.
Love the camera but bought a x-e1 and not using it plus would like to buy a new lens for the xe1.
Love the sharpness over the x10 plus nice to see where you are focusing on in ovf.
Auto focus faster also camera feels snappier than the x10. What I miss is the x10 EXR mode.
Love the fuji x-series.
 
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