The Official Fuji X10/X20/X30/XF1/XQ1 Thread

Nod said:
Just had a quick play with my X-20 (which has a dedicated exposure compensation dial) in M mode and dialling in any amount of EC has no effect on the settings chosen or the image produced. Similarly, pressing the +/- button on my D70 when in M mode and dialling in 5 stops or overexposure makes no difference. However, on both, dialling in the chosen exposure compensation DOES change the meter reading (as pointed out by George and Allan above.) EC in manual mode makes no change to the settings - they're fixed by the user but the camera's meter will take the intention of the user into account and adjust its meter to add (or subtract) to (or from) the exposure.
(The above makes [sort of] sense to me, hope it does to others!)
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This is absolutly not clear for me. How would a camera change metering reading presuming the usere intention and how that would not affect any of the exposure components? As i know reading is what the camera do in order to choose value for any of the exposure components. If you already did that and you are in full manual, how could the camera addapt to you when mettering. I really can not understand that.
 
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If you have set the meter's suggested settings in M mode with no EC set but then dial in a stop of EC, the meter will show that the exposure is off by that stop. The camera isn't making that decision, you have by asking it to give you the stop of EC by dialling it in. All a little pointless IMO, easier to simply add or subtract exposure using the dials rather than using the meter and EC function.
 
From you can't to not point
To me both are wrong, if it was not possible, then a camera could not do bracketing
I remember watching on creative live 2 American guys Mike Fulton and Cody Clinton, about OCF and under or over exposing on the camera with the EV, this was in M mode
The XF1 can't but that is not to say no camera can or there is no point
H
 
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Hell on earth said:
From you can't to not point
To me both are wrong, if it was not possible, then a camera could not do bracketing
I remember watching on creative live 2 American guys Mike Fulton and Cody Clinton, about OCF and under or over exposing on the camera with the EV, this was in M mode
The XF1 can't but that is not to say no camera can or there is no point
H
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When you are as long in the tooth as I am, and had time to study what is going on in terms of exposure and the available controls, you will understand what we have been telling you is correct.
I remember when I was given my first adjustable camera for my tenth birthday. I would not believe that 1/100 second at F 8 was the same exposure as 1/50 second at F 11.
Today after a life time working in photography I can not see what the problem was, or why it should have brought me to tears.

Don't worry about it, Just mull it over a while, and you will eventually fall in.

Cameras can not do auto bracketing in Manual mode... auto and manual are the clue.
 
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Terrywoodenpic said:
When you are as long in the tooth as I am, and had time to study what is going on in terms of exposure and the available controls, you will understand what we have been telling you is correct.
I remember when I was given my first adjustable camera for my tenth birthday. I would not believe that 1/100 second at F 8 was the same exposure as 1/50 second at F 11.
Today after a life time working in photography I can not see what the problem was, or why it should have brought me to tears.

Don't worry about it, Just mull it over a while, and you will eventually fall in.

Cameras can not do auto bracketing in Manual mode... auto and manual are the clue.
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I never said it can do Auto bracketing in Manual, well it can if you use the bracket mode, I'm saying you can adjust the EV and this was demonstrated in the link

They would use the camera to take the light reading, where it would say it was correct +0- then set the OCF for whatever they wanted and then use the EV so change to whatever they wanted
Now you may not agree or not see the sense but , they were doing it

Can't watch it unless you pay but it's here How & Why Underexposure Works with TTL but they also did it with manual flash control
H
 
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Hell on earth said:
Can't watch it unless you pay but it's here How & Why Underexposure Works with TTL but they also did it with manual flash control
H
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Can't watch it coz I won't pay ;)

I guess what they are doing is using the built in camera meter to set the aperture/shutter/ISO to give "correct" exposure then dialling one of the controls one stop back to allow for the "extra" light from the OCF.

The XF1 may not have a dial for it (I don't even know if my 7D will do it) but just follow the same procedure (fiddling with ONE of the controls) :)




*I think this part of the thread may be going round in circles, we're probably all saying the same thing :D
 
Hell on earth said:
I never said it can do Auto bracketing in Manual, well it can if you use the bracket mode, I'm saying you can adjust the EV and this was demonstrated in the link

They would use the camera to take the light reading, where it would say it was correct +0- then set the OCF for whatever they wanted and then use the EV so change to whatever they wanted
Now you may not agree or not see the sense but , they were doing it

H
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You have still not quite got what is going on... You can not set any form of auto exposure bracketing in manual mode at all.

That does not mean that you can not do a manual bracket.
we have always been able to do that, and some still do it and never use modes at all.

Prior to inbuilt exposure meters, we took a reading on a hand held meter, and set the suggested shutter speed and aperture on the camera.
To bracket, we simply changed the shutter speed one stop at a time and took another shot.

This is what your American friends were doing, but using the internal meter to take the initial reading.

You can achieve much the same thing by resetting the Iso by one stop, between shots. But noise can become a problem with that method.

The XF1 will be able to do a manual bracket as I have described. ( all cameras that can shoot manual, can)
 
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mrgubby said:
Can't watch it coz I won't pay ;)

I guess what they are doing is using the built in camera meter to set the aperture/shutter/ISO to give "correct" exposure then dialling one of the controls one stop back to allow for the "extra" light from the OCF.

The XF1 may not have a dial for it (I don't even know if my 7D will do it) but just follow the same procedure (fiddling with ONE of the controls) :)




*I think this part of the thread may be going round in circles, we're probably all saying the same thing :D
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Sort of but not
The TTL would read the AP/SS/ISO but it does not read the EV, so if you just go with the "correct" camera metering as most would do the TTL follows to give a "correct" exposure
So how do you change the exposure without changing the TTL, their way was to use the EV
Not easy to explain the why and hows but the point is you can do it and there are reasons to use it
These guy know more than I and see no reason to doubt

Gone off on a tangent but still

H
 
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Hell on earth said:
Sort of but not
The TTL would read the AP/SS/ISO but it does not read the EV, so if you just go with the "correct" camera metering as most would do the TTL follows to give a "correct" exposure
So how do you change the exposure without changing the TTL, their way was to use the EV
Not easy to explain the why and hows but the point is you can do it and there are reasons to use it
These guy know more than I and see no reason to doubt

Gone off on a tangent but still

H
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I had a look at your young American Photographers site. and they take some excellent work. However, what you report learning from them is complex and muddled.
You can not use the EV dial in manual mode... it will do nothing. Read through my previous post it gives the truth of the matter in a nutshell.
 
Hell on earth said:
Gone off on a tangent but still

H
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What tangent ? completely lost sight of it .......

I'd assumed that TTL didn't work with OCF :beer: (have to use beer smileys as they've nicked the shrug smiley)


anyway, I'll have a look for a tangent on Ebay, not sure if the do it with a Canon fit or not :wacky:
 
If we are now talking about off camera flash that is an entirely different topic to bracketing Ettl works surprisingly well. I have three of the large canon flashes that can act as masters or slaves. However it is still perhaps easier and more accurate to use a hand flash meter to set the balance rather than rely on remote Ettl for everything.

I also have The Fuji EF-X20 flash for any of the Fuji X cameras. It can be used as an off camera slave.
(Maybe even as a slave for the XF1)
 
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Terrywoodenpic said:
You have still not quite got what is going on... You can not set any form of auto exposure bracketing in manual mode at all.

That does not mean that you can not do a manual bracket.
we have always been able to do that, and some still do it and never use modes at all.

Prior to inbuilt exposure meters, we took a reading on a hand held meter, and set the suggested shutter speed and aperture on the camera.
To bracket, we simply changed the shutter speed one stop at a time and took another shot.

This is what your American friends were doing, but using the internal meter to take the initial reading.

You can achieve much the same thing by resetting the Iso by one stop, between shots. But noise can become a problem with that method.

The XF1 will be able to do a manual bracket as I have described. ( all cameras that can shoot manual, can)
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Hi Terry, This is an excellent post and sums it up completely in one. (y)

I now think part of Helens post refers to flash bracketing and compensation which as you know is a totally different ball game. And I think Helen maybe confusing Flash Bracketing and Flash Compensation which can be done automatically when the camera is in manual mode, as apposed to Automatic Exposure Bracketing which cannot be done when the camera is in manual mode.

With respects to Helen I think that is what she means.:confused:

George.

"HAPPY NEW YEAR"
 
G.K.Jnr. said:
Hi Terry, This is an excellent post and sums it up completely in one. (y)

I now think part of Helens post refers to flash bracketing and compensation which as you know is a totally different ball game. And I think Helen maybe confusing Flash Bracketing and Flash Compensation which can be done automatically when the camera is in manual mode, as apposed to Automatic Exposure Bracketing which cannot be done when the camera is in manual mode.

With respects to Helen I think that is what she means.:confused:

George.

"HAPPY NEW YEAR"
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Well no I don't and am not, I know what they did and that was to change the EV in the camera, I've tried to explain it, they demonstrate it

But hell they are wrong and I'm wrong
The end
 
G.K.Jnr. said:
Hi Terry, This is an excellent post and sums it up completely in one. (y)

I now think part of Helens post refers to flash bracketing and compensation which as you know is a totally different ball game. And I think Helen maybe confusing Flash Bracketing and Flash Compensation which can be done automatically when the camera is in manual mode, as apposed to Automatic Exposure Bracketing which cannot be done when the camera is in manual mode.

With respects to Helen I think that is what she means.:confused:

George.

"HAPPY NEW YEAR"
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That would indeed seem to be the case.
For some reason Flash compensation is always harder to find in camera menus, but most of them that can directly control the flash power and have it somewhere.

On Canon and Nikon systems, flash compensation/power can be controlled either from the camera or a master flash.
In the case of the X20, Flash power can only be controlled with the inbuilt or external flash mounted in the shoe or on a cord (The canon shoe cord works with fuji X cameras, fuji do not make one)
However the Ef-x20 flash will only work, stand alone, as a manually adjusted slave off camera.
 
Terrywoodenpic said:
(The canon shoe cord works with fuji X cameras, fuji do not make one)
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Hi Terry, That's interesting I'm a Nikon man but also have an X20, an X-E1, and an X100s (I love the Fuji gear). I've only ever used off camera flash with a Fuji X camera using a PC adapter in the hot shoe and connecting the flash via a PC cable. I've even connected my old Courtenay Colour Flash II heads this way. I checked with Fuji technical to find out what the maximum acceptable trigger voltage was the Fuji X cameras and they confirmed via email that they would all accept up to 300volts. The old Courtenay heads are around 180volts but do have a reversed polarity which would damage the cameras. So what I did was to reverse the connections in One End of the sync lead and hey presto they work perfectly.

But back to what I was going to ask you. Does the Canon shoe cord provide TTL flash or some sort of dedication between a Fuji X and a Canon flash, or just fire the flash?

I'd be really interested to know. I must admit I've not even tried using my Nikon leads & flashes with a Fuji X.
 
G.K.Jnr. said:
Hi Terry, That's interesting I'm a Nikon man but also have an X20, an X-E1, and an X100s (I love the Fuji gear). I've only ever used off camera flash with a Fuji X camera using a PC adapter in the hot shoe and connecting the flash via a PC cable. I've even connected my old Courtenay Colour Flash II heads this way. I checked with Fuji technical to find out what the maximum acceptable trigger voltage was the Fuji X cameras and they confirmed via email that they would all accept up to 300volts. The old Courtenay heads are around 180volts but do have a reversed polarity which would damage the cameras. So what I did was to reverse the connections in One End of the sync lead and hey presto they work perfectly.

But back to what I was going to ask you. Does the Canon shoe cord provide TTL flash or some sort of dedication between a Fuji X and a Canon flash, or just fire the flash?

I'd be really interested to know. I must admit I've not even tried using my Nikon leads & flashes with a Fuji X.
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The canon flash cord treats the EF-x20 flash as if it was in the shoe of the Fuji X camera, so with the X20 camera you have TTL

It will also fire a canon flash, but does not understand the canon ETTL signal, so you have to set the flash manually. I have not tried this, but the attached canon master flash might communicate the necessary settings to another one set as slave... you would need to experiment.
 
Terrywoodenpic said:
The canon flash cord treats the EF-x20 flash as if it was in the shoe of the Fuji X camera, so with the X20 camera you have TTL

It will also fire a canon flash, but does not understand the canon ETTL signal, so you have to set the flash manually. I have not tried this, but the attached canon master flash might communicate the necessary settings to another one set as slave... you would need to experiment.
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Hi Terry, That's very interesting and many thanks for taking the time to reply it's much appreciated.
 
Farmerjim said:
No OVF though:( I'm not getting any more cameras without a viewfinder. (Apart from the XF1:))
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I know. But I would say I use the screen 99.5% of the time on my x10 anyway. Started off using the ovf, but lack of information and the shift in final framing made me change.
 
I prefer an OVF of some sort but find myself using the screen on the X-20 as often as not since the info on the rear screen is more comprehensive - mainly the artificial horizon, although I do sometimes find the exposure information hard to read when it's overlaying the image. The biggest plus of the OVF for me is that there's dioptre correction so I can see without my reading specs on!
 
Hi folks - apologies if this has been covered before but has anyone used an XF1 and an S110 and can compare the two? And how annoying is the zoom switch power on/off thing on the XF1 in reality?

I'm umming and ahhing between the two but I have a snowboarding holiday coming up and could go and pick up the XF1 from PC World/Currys for £129.99 which is very tempting.

The smallness of the S110 is appealing but the XF1 is mighty purty. :)
 
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grum said:
Hi folks - apologies if this has been covered before but has anyone used an XF1 and an S110 and can compare the two? And how annoying is the zoom switch power on/off thing on the XF1 in reality?

I'm umming and ahhing between the two but I have a snowboarding holiday coming up and could go and pick up the XF1 from PC World/Currys for £129.99 which is very tempting.

The smallness of the S110 is appealing but the XF1 is mighty purty. :)
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It's not annoying at all, you get use to it very quickly and it's a bit of fun too

H
 
IMO, the switch being part of the zoom ring is verging on genius! I know some people have whinged about it but that's probably because they had to look at the manual to figure out how to turn it on... The X-10 & 20 also need the lens to be twisted to turn them on, just missing the pull out which is what makes the XF so compact and Pocketable.
Not sure how snowproof either camera would be, I think I would want a properly waterproof compact just in case. I would also take a couple of spare batteries and keep them in a warm place.
 
+1

I couldn't see what all the fuss was about - I thought it was just reviewers nit-picking. My Nikon J1 can turn on with a twist of the lens, but you have to hold a button down and it doesn't turn off when you close the lens. The XF1 is straight-forward and doesn't take much to work it out IMO. Twist-pull-twist.
 
Thanks folks. I've decided to go for it and have reserved one to pick up tomorrow. Woop woop!

Good to know the lens thing isn't the issue it's sometimes made out to be. I've taken non-waterproof cameras before and it's not really been an problem - the camera doesn't tend to come out unless the weather is reasonable.

Spare battery is a good shout - they really don't like the cold do they. Any recommendations for a non-official source of spare batteries?
 
grum said:
And how annoying is the zoom switch power on/off thing on the XF1 in reality?
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I've got a box of probably 20 compact cameras either donated by friends or bought as spares, they've all got lens errors and U/S. Having the manual zoom lens on the XF and X10 really makes for peace of mind. I know it's not going to switch itself on in my pocket or suddenly decide it doesn't want to extend properly because there's a bit of grit in the lens barrel.
I've actually got an S110 in the box if you want it Graham...........lens error!
I've got an X10 in the box as well, it fell of a wall onto concrete and smashed the front of the lens array off. Amazingly it still turns on although the twisting mechanism is v stiff.
I know which camera I'd be backing in a fight! :)
 
I've provisionally sold my dslr and am looking at one of these again as a stop gap between getting my new one, also so I can continue my 52 and also to have something that I can just place in my pocket when going for a walk with the dogs and the young 'un when carrying a bigger camera isn't really practical. Hoping to pick it up in time for the weekend so I can have a play!
 
XF1 Hand held auto pan, bit shaky, was cold and was not sure what speed to pan at think I was a bit slow
Notice the 2 spires in the center


Taken while I was having to wait for my MRI
View attachment 3181

H
 
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Another... not printable, you can see blocks of bans running down the sky and again some shake but it's ok as a snap

View attachment 3183
 
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Oooh nice, I've not played with the panorama option yet. Looks great bar some vertical artifacts on the left and right sides which would be easy to clone out in PS
 
landwomble said:
Oooh nice, I've not played with the panorama option yet. Looks great bar some vertical artifacts on the left and right sides which would be easy to clone out in PS
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As said it was cold out there and I'm not very steady atm, it's not a great job but ok for a auto in camera
H
 
Farmerjim said:
I've got a box of probably 20 compact cameras either donated by friends or bought as spares, they've all got lens errors and U/S. Having the manual zoom lens on the XF and X10 really makes for peace of mind. I know it's not going to switch itself on in my pocket or suddenly decide it doesn't want to extend properly because there's a bit of grit in the lens barrel.
I've actually got an S110 in the box if you want it Graham...........lens error!
I've got an X10 in the box as well, it fell of a wall onto concrete and smashed the front of the lens array off. Amazingly it still turns on although the twisting mechanism is v stiff.
I know which camera I'd be backing in a fight! :)
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Cheers - though I did read a review on Amazon suggesting there is a lens error issue with the XF1 as well. It seems well worth a punt for £130 anyway - picking it up tomorrow.

Nice to see some shots posted with it - panorama feature looks good. Anyone else got any XF1 images to show off? :)
 
Had to go to the dentist today:eek: Bad news for the toothy-peg that's been giving me gyp over Christmas but weather was nice and tried out the auto bracketing on the XF. Noticed there's a film speed bracketing mode as well. Anyone ever tried that?
Here's a couple that I ran through Photomatrix. Both shots are -1,0,+1

Rugby School... didn't use the de-ghoster properly so there's some movement in the twigs!


Rugby School by Farmejim, on Flickr

Part of the playing field where Mr. William Webb-Ellis "picked up the ball and ran".


Rugby School playing field by Farmejim, on Flickr
 
It's a shame that the baby X camera all seem to vary the exposure during their auto pans. I used the function a lot during our last holiday and quite a few are spoiled by it. It's not just the XF that does it, the X-10 and X-20 both do it too.

Not had any lens problems with my XF but the X-10 has been back to Fuji twice for lens problems - both times the lens/switch jammed closed. Luckily, both times it happened, it was under warranty and that the person I sold it to was with someone with a DSLR so didn't really miss any shots. Hopefully it won't let them down again.
 
So... this happened...


Fuji XF-1 by David Raynham, on Flickr

Can't wait to see what this funky little thing can do. Love it already! I've fitted a screen protector (homemade from a tablet one) but will order the ex pro 3 pack from ebay unless anyone can offer up a better suggestion? Any other gizmo's I need? Going to look into cases etc... other than the original which is a bit pricey, are there any others that are half decent for it?
 
minnnt said:
other than the original which is a bit pricey, are there any others that are half decent for it?
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As it's an "obsolete" camera there is a good chance that places will start selling off the genuine cases cheap, I managed to get one half price with my camera & it's just icing on the retro cake :D
 
My case came from Currys for £32 or so. IMO, well worth it. I paid way more than that for the original I bought for my tan one! The genuine cases are leather and come with a matching wrist strap which completes the look. I'm not the kind of chap who goes for looks but the ensemble isn't ugly!
 
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