The silly state of dual memory card.

Cagey75 said:
I don't remember specifics, but your name rings many bells. Name 5 people who've had serious SD card failures during paid sessions .... I bet I can name more than 5 lotto winners [didn't say Jackpot] ... nothing rubbish about it.
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You are actively trying to prove that you can take the risk and don't need to shoot back up by the use of naming lottery winners…this is what we are doing? Really?

You win….speechless at the kind of recklessness on display here.
 
Raymond Lin said:
You are actively trying to prove that you can take the risk and don't need to shoot back up by the use of naming lottery winners…this is what we are doing? Really?

You win….speechless at the kind of recklessness on display here.
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I've stated 4 times now that you need back up, external back up, it is always more secure than relying on keeping the same cards in your camera all day. But you keep select reading, like a troll. The lotto thing was a counter to your hilarious parachute metaphor attempt and you still don't see that :D

Anyway, apology accepted. You learn eventually.
 
Cagey75 said:
I've stated 4 times now that you need back up, external back up, it is always more secure than relying on keeping the same cards in your camera all day. But you keep select reading, like a troll. The lotto thing was a counter to your hilarious parachute metaphor attempt and you still don't see that :D

Anyway, apology accepted. You learn eventually.
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Then clarify, how do you externally back up in the middle of the wedding? You are standing in the corner of a Cathedral, you put your bag down, then move in position for the shot.

Go on, please enlighten me.
 
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Raymond Lin said:
No, I don't think Nikon is doing it wrong, because even with the buffer bottle neck, at least I know with 2 fast card slots, the card slots won't be the bottle neck. The idea is not to even have any kind of shooting cap whatsoever and the image will flow from shooting to card endlessly. That's the dream…..but if you imagine that is the goal, then having 2 card slots that is fast is a must, other areas being the bottleneck…that's for another thread.
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I don;t know how else to describe the act of writing two cards with one as backup slow down the available shooting rate as the processing and buffer are technology limited. If you get 2 UHS-II card slots in the 5D5 but can't shoot any more shots before buffering in backup mode will you see that as real progress?
 
Jim_Tod said:
I don;t know how else to describe the act of writing two cards with one as backup slow down the available shooting rate as the processing and buffer are technology limited. If you get 2 UHS-II card slots in the 5D5 but can't shoot any more shots before buffering in backup mode will you see that as real progress?
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Then that'll be my next rant why they haven't improved the processing or buffer size :p (you can't win! lol)

Anyway, you can get a 8G ram in a £370 phone now (how much is the ram cost in a phone like this?) 8G, 5D4 files are around 35mb so….thats 228 shots.

At 7fps, that takes 32s to fill without a single file being written. A few years from now 8G won't be a huge deal, but 32seconds is still 32seconds so price should come down even more too.

It should be possible to get around this easily and then flush the files from the buffer as fast as you can.
 
Raymond Lin said:
hen that'll be my next rant why they haven't improved the processing or buffer size :p (you can't win! lol)
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I think I've won the watch, I'm the one who doesn't think that buying something you don't want and expecting it to have something that's not possible is normal. You are either being obtuse (which I suspect is the case) or you really dont grasp fundamental limitations of the tool of your trade as a photographer.

Any chance you'll explain why having 2 card slots of the same type makes you a better photographer?
 
Raymond Lin said:
I thought i already explained that, I said people would understand of sickness (and your reputation is less in trouble over sickness over lack of care) but how do you explain lack of due diligence?

I know you guys are having fun trying to poke fun and see how far I'd go, which you already know, I try my best. But every question you ask, I question your professionalism.
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Raymond.
I’m calling b******t!:p

You have a bunch of answers that perfectly fit your business model, so either; you’re daft enough to have fallen for your own marketing, or you’re too daft to realise that other people have different but equally valid approaches.

I don’t have dual card slots, but two of us have two cameras and are travelling in separate cars. Mathematical probability says I’m way in front of you. But your myopic view is that I’m ‘unprofessional’.

The phrase; ‘get a grip’ has rarely been more apt. :)

BTW, I love your work, you clearly know your way round a wedding but that doesn’t mean you’re always right, or that your opinion is the only valid one. :)
 
Raymond Lin said:
Anyway, you can get a 8G ram in a £370 phone now (how much is the ram cost in a phone like this?)
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Nowhere near the speed you need in your camera. This is more daft than you’re capable of seeing.
 
Phil V said:
Raymond.
I’m calling b******t!:p

You have a bunch of answers that perfectly fit your business model, so either; you’re daft enough to have fallen for your own marketing, or you’re too daft to realise that other people have different but equally valid approaches.

I don’t have dual card slots, but two of us have two cameras and are travelling in separate cars. Mathematical probability says I’m way in front of you. But your myopic view is that I’m ‘unprofessional’.

The phrase; ‘get a grip’ has rarely been more apt. :)

BTW, I love your work, you clearly know your way round a wedding but that doesn’t mean you’re always right, or that your opinion is the only valid one. :)
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Oh Phil !!!! I am disappointed in you! :p

When I was shooting 5D2, shock horror, 1 card…….I forced myself using smaller cards, should the worst happens, I would only use the images for that segment and every wedding I pray none of them died. It was a relief when the 5D3 was released.
 
Raymond Lin said:
What bugs me is hitting that buffer, which takes about 3 seconds.

For my needs, if it can be 20 or 30 seconds, that'd be perfect….of course, if i find something that needs 31 seconds, I'll come back and rant about it :p

I don't have any regret with the 5D4, outside that 1 shot, I love it, but when it hits that buffer, I am like "ARGH!". I wouldn't change it for anything else, hence I want Canon to improve this aspect for the future. That's all there is to it.
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Another change to the original rant. You can have that buffer but you will need to shoot Jpeg.
You do a lot of PP?
30 seconds at 7fps is 210 shots, spray and pray springs to mind.
I wonder how those old film photographers managed with just 15 shots per roll?
 
MatBin said:
Another change to the original rant. You can have that buffer but you will need to shoot Jpeg.
You do a lot of PP?
30 seconds at 7fps is 210 shots, spray and pray springs to mind.
I wonder how those old film photographers managed with just 15 shots per roll?
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I don't think you read the thread because if you had, you would know why i aim for this 30 seconds, and why Spray and Pray is exactly what I am asking for in this segment. In reality is that I don't even machine gun it, I shoot bursts, and even in bursts the buffer still fills up.

There are reasons why I need to shoot raw and not jpeg.

And I have already explain why quoting the past is a bad comparison as a justification for not wanting improvements.

This is why this thread is 11 pages, people keep forcing me to repeat myself.
 
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Raymond Lin said:
I don't think you read the thread because if you had, you would know why i aim for this 30 seconds, and why Spray and Pray is exactly what I am asking for in this segment. In reality is that I don't even machine gun it, I shoot bursts, and even in bursts the buffer still fills up.

There are reasons why I need to shoot raw and not jpeg.

And I have already explain why quoting the past is a silly comparison as a justification for not wanting improvements.

This is why this thread is 11 pages, people keep forcing me to repeat myself.
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Spray and pray is hardly an improvement, maybe in technology terms but not in technique. So, maybe that's the gist of it, you want technology to cover for your short comings?
 
MatBin said:
Spray and pray is hardly an improvement, maybe in technology terms but not in technique. So, maybe that's the gist of it, you want technology to cover for your short comings?
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Do you know what exact shot i am talking about?
 
Raymond Lin said:
Oh Phil !!!! I am disappointed in you! :p

When I was shooting 5D2, shock horror, 1 card…….I forced myself using smaller cards, should the worst happens, I would only use the images for that segment and every wedding I pray none of them died. It was a relief when the 5D3 was released.
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But we are shooting the same moment directly to 2 cards, through 2 separate processors and 2 lenses. We arrived in 2 cars... etc etc. Your single point of failure is obvious to everyone, but you think 2 cards is the answer? (It’s clearly not).

When clients ask ‘worse case scenario’ my answer is ‘2 people being struck down ill or both having a car accident on your wedding day’.

How’s your 2 cards weigh against illness or a car crash.

In 15 years of digital shooting, I’ve lost less than 10 shots to card failure, risk assessment is a fact of life. Let’s be honest about all of the risks.
 
Raymond Lin said:
Do you know what exact shot i am talking about?
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Yes and my point is Cartier Bresson - the decisive moment.
I have had a quick look through the first 4 pages (again) I couldn't find why you have to shoot in Raw, so humour me and refresh my memory please.
 
Phil V said:
But we are shooting the same moment directly to 2 cards, through 2 separate processors and 2 lenses. We arrived in 2 cars... etc etc. Your single point of failure is obvious to everyone, but you think 2 cards is the answer? (It’s clearly not).

When clients ask ‘worse case scenario’ my answer is ‘2 people being struck down ill or both having a car accident on your wedding day’.

How’s your 2 cards weigh against illness or a car crash.

In 15 years of digital shooting, I’ve lost less than 10 shots to card failure, risk assessment is a fact of life. Let’s be honest about all of the risks.
Click to expand...

And I quite agree, I do my best in my situation as a solo shooter to mitigate my loses. I travel down the day before, I shoot with dual cards. 2 bodies, with another one in the car, cover my focal lengths with primes and zooms, 5 flash heads, enough memory cards to shoot 2 back to back weddings and enough batteries for 3. I do my utmost to upkeep my end of the bargain so to speak. That's all I can do.

You can't predict accidents but you do your best to reduce its possibility. All I can do is try, but when someone takes a stance that you simply don't need to because its unlikely? It comes across as they don't care.
 
MatBin said:
Yes and my point is Cartier Bresson - the decisive moment.
I have had a quick look through the first 4 pages (again) I couldn't find why you have to shoot in Raw, so humour me and refresh my memory please.
Click to expand...

I am sure you have realised….I am looking for something better? and RAW over JPEG in terms of quality, which I don't think we need to argue. That's just science.

And do you know what decisive moment I am talking about in the wedding?
 
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Raymond Lin said:
I am sure you have realised….I am looking for the best? and RAW over JPEG in terms of quality, which I don't think we need to argue. That's just science.

And do you know what decisive moment I am talking about in the wedding?
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Yes. My point still stands. By using 2 cameras and swapping mid walk or given its a 20 second walk and you fill the buffer in 3 I assume you swap many times thereby increasing the risk of missing the one shot that will be in focus, correct expression, looking at you and not spoilt by confetti.
In this case you would be better off shooting in Jpeg. Nobody will notice the difference in quality, shoot the rest of the wedding in Raw if that is what you want to do and have a custom button set so you can easily swap between settings.
Is this a solution for you?
 
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Raymond Lin said:
All I can do is try, but when someone takes a stance that you simply don't need to because its unlikely? It comes across as they don't care.
Click to expand...

I'm a Chartered Structural Engineer by profession and design and supervise the construction of buildings- anywhere from £100k- £250m. If structural engineers get it wrong then things fall down and people are much more likely to die than when the Zilla is unhappy with the confetti shot but we're still not expected to remove all risk in building design. Our standard is to undertake services with reasonable skill and care. Suggesting that everyone else doesn't care because they approach the delivery of their profession services differently from how you wish to approach the provision of your services is arrogant and in fact unprofessional as you are questioning, unreasonably, the professionalism of others.

Being honest you don't appear to know what you want.

1 You want 2 card slots of the same type, irrespective of the write speed required
2 You want the D850/ D500 approach of 2 different speed card slots which is incompatible with 1
3 You want the buffer not to fill up at 3 seconds but to last 20-30 seconds but would appear not to be happy if this was achieved with 2 card slots of different types as per 1 and 2
4 You can have the 20-30 second buffer now but want to shoot in backup mode as you're the most professional of professional photographers
5 You could also have this now but don't want to splash out for a new camera but will wait for the 5DMkZ as it should have what you want when you want it- why should you be expected to buy the technological tool with the abilities you want
6 2 card slots of the same type makes you a better photographer- improved technology is the pinnacle of photography but you can;t explain why

I waded in last night, done what I can on the technology and psychology side to see if i could crack the nut. Time to try to back out of this thread but might snipe in occasionally when the fancy takes me and the inconsistencies grow to tall
 
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Jim_Tod said:
I'm a Chartered Structural Engineer by profession and design and supervise the construction of buildings- anywhere from £100k- £250m. If structural engineers get it wrong then things fall down and people are much more likely to die than when the Zilla is unhappy with the confetti shot but we're still not expected to remove all risk in building design. Our standard is to undertake services with reasonable skill and care. Suggesting that everyone else doesn't care because they approach the delivery of their profession services differently from how you wish to approach the provision of your services is arrogant and in fact unprofessional as you are questioning, unreasonably, the professionalism of others.

Being honest you don;t appear to know what you want.

1You want 2 card slots of the same type, irrespective of the write speed required
2You want the D850/ D500 approach of 2 different speed card slots which
Click to expand...

1 - I want the 2nd slot to be the same as the 1st. The 1st is fast, and the 2nd is slow by today's standard and by the cost of the body it is in.
2 - I want the Canon to have the speed of the Nikon in writing files to card.

I want a camera that I won't hit the buffer when I am doing the confetti.

(and to repeat myself again, I don't expect this in the 5D4….)

I am not criticising other people not wanting to shoot the confetti shot the way I did, I have not said that, never have. I have question it for their opinion on back up in the camera when their starting point is "it'll never happen, so why should I bother?"

Surely you understand, "it'll never happen, why should I bother" is the wrong attitude to take in any professional environment?

You can't remove all the risk, but you take reasonable steps to mitigate those risks.

Reasonable steps isn't "it'll never happen to me, I won't bother", right?
 
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Raymond Lin said:
I want a camera that I won't hit the buffer when I am doing the confetti.
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No you don't because it already exists, what you want is a small FF camera that has equal speed dual card slots that weighs less, costs less and is smaller than a 1DX. Write to manufacturer and ask is this possible without being mirrorless.
 
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MatBin said:
No you don't because it already exists, what you want is a small FF camera that has equal speed dual card slots that weighs less, costs less and us smaller than a 1DX. Write to manufacturer and ask is this possible without being mirrorless.
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I would be happy with 5D size camera.

I find the Fuji X-T1 too small.
 
Raymond Lin said:
You are forcing me to break my streak of not shooting JPEG since 2004? :p
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If it solves your problem then yes and not for the whole wedding just for 210 shots. Seriously why would you not consider this especially as you only want 1 keeper.
 
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MatBin said:
If it solves your problem then yes and not for the whole wedding just for 210 shots. Seriously why would you not consider this especially as you only want 1 keeper.
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Shooting JPEG has never crossed my mind.

Let's say, it solves the problem.

But that isn't the problem I have with Canon….because I don't want to be still doing that in the next camera, because if I keep having to do that in 5D5…I don't want to start yet another thread lol Wouldn't you be a bit annoyed if no progress be made in the next camera and I have to shoot JPEG still?

That's the issue here, the next body release. The problem is that this is something no one knows the answer to, and I don't expect anyone to know the spec of it, I did hope that more people would agree having 2 fast card slots make sense. I appreciate that some people think that they do not and I appreciate that some camera maker thinks their way is the better way, but I just can't get my head round not improving the speed of the card maximum transfer rate between 5D3 to 5D4 or 5D4 to 5D5 would somehow magically make transfer faster..
 
I will admit that I don't know all that much about all the different cameras and their specs... but having read this thread from the start, not all in one go, but over the days it has been rolling on.... It seems to me that things are simply going around in circles.

You want a camera that will do what you want it to do.. which from other peoples comments exists .. but you don't want to pay the money for the camera that already exists.
You want to stick with Canon because that is your preferred choice and have numerous lenses, £22K worth, so understandably you don't want to take the risk of using adaptors to make them fit on the camera that can do what you want.
So, the only solution you can think of, is that when Canon bring out the next incarnation of the camera model you prefer, you 'expect/hope' Canon to make it do what the other camera that can do what you.
Maybe rather than argue with everyone about it, and keep going around in circles because you won't agree on points that differ to yours, you should simply ask people, in a less roundabout way if they think when Canon bring out the next incarnation of the model you prefer, having it being able to do the same as the more expensive camera that you don't want to pay for would be a nice idea.... then, when you have enough people thinking that it would be a nice idea, maybe you could then contact Canon and see if they consider it would be a good marketing option for them to make the next incarnation of the model you prefer to do what the more expensive camera can do, but you don't want to pay for,
 
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Mr-Incy said:
I will admit that I don't know all that much about all the different cameras and their specs... but having read this thread from the start, not all in one go, but over the days it has been rolling on.... It seems to me that things are simply going around in circles.

You want a camera that will do what you want it to do.. which from other peoples comments exists .. but you don't want to pay the money for the camera that already exists.
You want to stick with Canon because that is your preferred choice and have numerous lenses, £22K worth, so understandably you don't want to take the risk of using adaptors to make them fit on the camera that can do what you want.
So, the only solution you can think of, is that when Canon bring out the next incarnation of the camera model you prefer, you 'expect/hope' Canon to make it do what the other camera that can do what you.
Maybe rather than argue with everyone about it, and keep going around in circles because you won't agree on points that differ to yours, you should simply ask people, in a less roundabout way if they think when Canon bring out the next incarnation of the model you prefer, having it being able to do the same as the more expensive camera that you don't want to pay for would be a nice idea.... then, when you have enough people thinking that it would be a nice idea, maybe you could then contact Canon and see if they consider it would be a good marketing option for them to make the next incarnation of the model you prefer to do what the more expensive camera can do, but you don't want to pay for,
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You mean simply asking?

"Don't you think it's time Canon put faster card readers in their camera instead of the one used in the 5D3?"

Surely that is an obvious answer, who would say No to that?
 
Yes. simply asking, exactly like that....
See how easy that was, and saves a lot of going round in circles having debates that lead to no where.
 
Serious serious enquiry, if you hammer your body to the extent you’re describing just for the confetti how many exposures do you take per wedding?
 
GordonM said:
Serious serious enquiry, if you hammer your body to the extent you’re describing just for the confetti how many exposures do you take per wedding?
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On his website he says he supplies on average 400, so you might be able to guess. How much PP does he do, all presets (?), how is that any better than using a modern Jpeg, after all he last shot Jpegs 14 years ago, Anyone seen Canon USA's technical bloke talking about in-camera processing and he ridicules Canon et al for not progressing :)

Surely after 14 years it's worth investigating how good a modern Jpeg is, as the conversion engines have changed and the cameras have got more powerful processors in them and it's no good saying there is no control of Jpeg, I beg to differ and there is a thread (Called RAW - why, which seems to validate a good Jpeg is at least as good as a RAW that has little processing, or intermediate processing at best) - I cant fathom why he thinks he has a problem?

Absurd
 
Raymond Lin said:
You mean simply asking?

"Don't you think it's time Canon put faster card readers in their camera instead of the one used in the 5D3?"

Surely that is an obvious answer, who would say No to that?
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I'd sooner we had more dynamic range, lower prices and even better AF, 2 equal card slots isnt high on my list and whenever I have seen a wish list for a an upcoming body I havent seen 2 equal speed card slots ever mentioned.
Nothing in this world is perfect, never will be, never, if you've got 99% satisfaction you are a very lucky man.

And with that I'm out of this one, I've exhausted my patience.
 
Raymond Lin said:
Like i said, I am not after a fix today. I am asking for a fix in the future.

If i can get a fix for the card slot speed instead of having to spend for the cost for the 1Ds and the weight? why wouldn't I want that?

What i am asking is small, at least to me, because i see Fuji and Nikon have implemented.
Click to expand...

I'll ask again since you haven't answered me (or others asking the same question...

Have you spoken to Canon about the perceived problem?
 
Here’s a little selection from Stephanie and David’s confetti walk when the petals were really flying! I’m fairly confident that if I was shooting this scene using autofocus at f2 on my Nikon it would have probably prioritised focus on the petals, then hunted for the face and then found the petals again. These pics probably would have been binned, but the A9/Zeiss combo nailed eye focus each time.
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https://www.robtarren.co.uk/2018/01/30/sony-a9-wedding-review-6-months-on/

What use are faster write times if the body can't focus properly to nail that shot? Eye-AF is a game changer for this kind of work.
 
 
Nod said:
I'll ask again since you haven't answered me (or others asking the same question...

Have you spoken to Canon about the perceived problem?
Click to expand...

I have said already, I am going to the show this weekend, I don’t have a time machine.
 
GordonM said:
Serious serious enquiry, if you hammer your body to the extent you’re describing just for the confetti how many exposures do you take per wedding?
Click to expand...

I can answer this, but do you want to take into account that i shoot on average 15 hours?

Do you take into account that for every photo I take minimum of 2, may be 3 because of people blink.

But what relevance are you trying to draw from this except trying to suggest I am a machine gun shooter and as a result my work is not as good as others?

Have you seen some of the greatest shots, how they shoot a roll of 36 and only ever pick 1?

And the fact that I only hit the buffer during confetti and nothing else, Nothing else, will tell you that I don’t machine gun it any other time.
 
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