The silly state of dual memory card.

Wow, 8 pages on card slots! :thinking:

Serious question: How many times have any of you actually had to use that back up card for recovery?
 
Riz_Guru said:
For me ....... NEVER........ :D
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I often wondered how many people have actually had a decent card fail. I had dual card [CF/SD] slots for years, and never once removed the back-up, just formatted each time I offloaded from the SD. When did dual slots start? I'm thinking it was more a marketing gimmick to get people to buy extra cards. I mean, I know some people who buy one cheap SD card and use it for life :LOL: I only have single slot atm, and only use standard U3 Sandisk cards all the time. I have a bunch of them, but tbh, only ever really use the one. I'm not a pro of course, there is that.
 
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Cagey75 said:
I often wondered how many people have actually had a decent card fail. I had dual card [CF/SD] slots for years, and never once removed the back-up, just formatted each time I offloaded from the SD. When did dual slots start? I'm thinking it was more a marketing gimmick to get people to buy extra cards. I mean, I know some people who buy one cheap SD card and use it for life :LOL: I only have single slot atm, and only use standard U3 Sandisk cards all the time. I have a bunch of them, but tbh, only ever really use the one. I'm not a pro of course, there is that.
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I think the Nikon D3 was the first Nikon Flagship body to incorporate the dual card system. I have had one CF card 'go bad' on me but I think it may have been a 'fake' big name.
 
Riz_Guru said:
Where does this dual-redundancy end....... next thing will be that we need to carry two of each lens, just in case one lens failed :D
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I knew a wedding photographer who had a Mamiya RB67, a C330 and a Nikon fail on the same wedding. He ended up using a compact to finish. Before anyone says it, he didn’t use ancient kit, he had it serviced, he was just incredibly unlucky once!
 
Fraser Euan White said:
I think the Nikon D3 was the first Nikon Flagship body to incorporate the dual card system. I have had one CF card 'go bad' on me but I think it may have been a 'fake' big name.
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I must admit I have had one SD card fail, it was a no-name one that I got free with a compact camera. I used it for years before it finally kicked the bucket though. And this was the one time in 20 years of shooting it happened.

Since I started using Sandisk mainly I've never had an ounce of trouble. When I used the D800E I had a Sandisk CF 32GB card in the back up slot from the day I bought the camera, and ended up leaving it in for the buyer when I sold it almost 5 years later, it had never been removed once from the body. And I used that camera pretty hard, I did a bunch of weddings, christenings, events, concerts etc, it was out in all weathers [when i was a bit fitter]

I think it's much more likely that a shutter/battery/evf/LCD issue will occur than a card fault - A back up body is much more reassuring IMO than a back up card in the same camera.
 
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Cagey75 said:
Serious question: How many times have any of you actually had to use that back up card for recovery?
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I had a Sandisk card literally fall apart on me ... but that was mostly cause I used it in a dodgy Chinese SD to Lightning card reader (that never worked properly even when it didn't destroy the card). However I was able to put it back together to read the data off so nothing was actually lost (didn't have a backup in that camera) and Sandisk replaced the card under warranty too.

The only "backup" I've needed the second card slot for was when forgetting to put the main card back into the camera!!
 
Fraser Euan White said:
I don't think anyone would argue with this but, and it's a big but, at what price? If it meant a change in spec or price we would have to balance that out against our own personal needs; trouble is we may not even know what/if anything is being left out for this advance. I'm not sure there are many having the 'issue' Raymond is having or if putting a faster slot in his camera will alleviate the problem for him.
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If Nikon can stick a XQD slot, which one would assume could be quite expensive because it is not a common part used in many cameras, and a UHS-II slot, in a camera that is half the price of the 5DIV then the cost difference between UHS-I and UHS-II slots may not be significant additional cost. But only Canon know. ;) And only by putting the part in more cameras will the price of the part come down. How many cameras did Canon put the same 18Mp sensor to cut down costs! ;) :rolleyes: Sticking the 'latest' tech in the Pro models lets the tech eventually trickle down.

It would be very fascinating to see how the cost of parts and the juggling of features v cost is worked out for high specced cameras, as they have more options for juggling. Never happen of course, but it would be very good.
 
Cagey75 said:
Never knew a failed card could kill you :thinking:

Get a grip, you've had your 8 pages of drama over SD card slots, don't think you can pull much more nonsense out of it tbh ... though you are trying hard
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:D lol
 
Phil V said:
The buffer is the same size, the files are smaller ;)
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Interestingly though the burst rate for 7mb Jpeg is 65 but for 3.7Mb it's 1930 both of which can apparently be printed up to A2. Shooting mRaw or sRaw (19/15Mb respectively) gives a burst rate less (just) than shooting full size Raw (27Mb).
I guess there's some processing going on that takes Cpu/Memory resources.
 
Cagey75 said:
Never knew a failed card could kill you :thinking:

Get a grip, you've had your 8 pages of drama over SD card slots, don't think you can pull much more nonsense out of it tbh ... though you are trying hard
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What do you think would happen if i shoot a wedding and not deliver a single image?

And do you not understand metaphors?

I think you need a reality check if you think the bride would just think it’s just one of those things.
 
Are the Camera Manufacturers in a situation with the same speed memory cards in two slots as Peter Jones (Dragons Den) would say ; "Well done, you've invented a solution for a problem that doesn't exist"?

Edit: To explain the above so there isn't a misunderstanding - Most people have provided a good workround of the problem for the OP and the tech savvy contributors have explained putting two faster card slots into the camera would not provide a solution in this day and age.

I still maintain that even if it was possible to introduce the tech to allow 30 secs of continuous shooting you would still need to carry two bodies in the event of mechanical problems.
 
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Cagey75 said:
Never knew a failed card could kill you :thinking:

Get a grip, you've had your 8 pages of drama over SD card slots, don't think you can pull much more nonsense out of it tbh ... though you are trying hard
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To be fair a card won’t kill you - but apparently a bride will if the confetti upsets her ocd.....
 
Raymond Lin said:
What do you think would happen if i shoot a wedding and not deliver a single image?

And do you not understand metaphors?

I think you need a reality check if you think the bride would just think it’s just one of those things.
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You don't use a back up camera? Did you even read all of my post? I clearly stated I feel much more reassured with a back up body over a back up card in the one camera ... Bridezillas gonna zilla for one reason or another. Don't do weddings if they scare you.

It's not a metaphor if one isn't even remotely akin to the other. Swap cards regular, back them up on the go externally, can't really do that mid air with parachutes :rolleyes:
 
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Cagey75 said:
You don't use a back up camera? Did you even read all of my post? I clearly stated I feel much more reassured with a back up body over a back up card in the one camera ... Bridezillas gonna zilla for one reason or another. Don't do weddings if they scare you
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How is a back up body going to help you for lost images from a card?

Say your card died at 4pm and you can continue to shoot with your back up camera, where are you going to pull from your ass for the images you took earlier that day?
 
GordonM said:
To be fair a card won’t kill you - but apparently a bride will if the confetti upsets her ocd.....
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She can certainly go nuts against you on social media and sue you in court.

All can be avoided if you shoot back up. Anyone who takes that kind of risk really shouldn’t do professional work. You would be wasting everyone’s time should something go wrong with your photos. From weddings to fashion shoots to baby shoots to national geo.

Why won’t you shoot a back up when doing paid work?

Its not a question that needs to be asked! This isn’t over reacting. This is common sense.
 
Raymond Lin said:
How is a back up body going to help you for lost images from a card?

Say your card died at 4pm and you can continue to shoot with your back up camera, where are you going to pull from your ass for the images you took earlier that day?
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Did I not just say back up on the go also? You're not checking your gear until 4pm on the day? If a card fails, I'll know about it on the spot and do something about it asap, because I would be constantly keeping check, i would also be backing up externally any chance I get. Do you not have an assistant?

Waffle on about it till the cows come home, but chances of a card failing are like the chances of you winning the lotto. It happens to some, but unlikely to ever happen to you.
 
When I worked for a football league club I always had multiple bodies, it’s not just brides that won’t appreciate not getting pictures. It’s also why you have insurance in case of unforeseen events.
To be honest I’d never had a card fail, however I have accidentally formatted the wrong card and recovery software retrieved everything. In my experience apart from physically breaking a card failures are less likely than winning the lottery. If it worries you so much and you’re of the opinion your cards might fail why not replace them regularly as part of the cost of your business, after all compared with the cost of equipment and set against the amount wedding photographer charge it’s a negligible amount.
 
Cagey75 said:
Did I not just say back up on the go also? You're not checking your gear until 4pm on the day? If a card fails, I'll know about it on the spot and do something about it asap, because I would be constantly keeping check, i would also be backing up externally any chance I get. Do you not have an assistant?

Waffle on about it till the cows come home, but chances of a card failing are like the chances of you winning the lotto. It happens to some, but unlikely to ever happen to you.
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Backing up on the go is using dual cards.

Backing up on the go is not get your laptop out and transfer it over.

You check you card by seeing the camera is working at every minute.

How are you going to do something about a corrupt card? Honestly? Are you going to say “stop everyone, hold the ceremony while I run a recovery software to see if I can recover these images, we might have to run through the whole ceremony again if I can’t !”

Are you seriously arguing the merit of shooting dual cards? Unbelievable. Using the excuse of just because it never happens to you so you can put someone’s wedding on the line is absurd.

I have it happened to me but as luck have it, it was not a paid job, now are you going to argue lighting isn’t going to strike twice?

What a load of rubbish trying to justify not shooting back up on a paid job and compare it to winning to a lottery. Ridiculous.
 
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GordonM said:
When I worked for a football league club I always had multiple bodies, it’s not just brides that won’t appreciate not getting pictures. It’s also why you have insurance in case of unforeseen events.
To be honest I’d never had a card fail, however I have accidentally formatted the wrong card and recovery software retrieved everything. In my experience apart from physically breaking a card failures are less likely than winning the lottery. If it worries you so much and you’re of the opinion your cards might fail why not replace them regularly as part of the cost of your business, after all compared with the cost of equipment and set against the amount wedding photographer charge it’s a negligible amount.
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I do replace the card often, and I shoot dual cards and if I am out of the country for a shoot, I back it up again on a external HDD. Then travel back with a set of memory card on my person, one in camera and HDD in a separate bag.

I play it safe.

Oh, and I have insurance. But insurance can’t cover your reputation.

But the simple fact of shooting back up, its easy, why wouldn't you do it . It is ridiculous to argue against that with the reason of “it’ll never happen to me”.

Absurd.
 
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Raymond I applaud your desire to ensure no wedding you shoot will ever leave you in the situation where you dont have a set of images for the bride/groom to purchase and give you a glowing report. I can understand if you have had it happen once you are very aware it may happen again.
But, there's always a but, assuming the camera had dual slots running at the same speed and both storing RAW files (of the same size etc) I would expect that the most likely scenario isnt that the primary card fails but the processor in the camera, or the lens or some other part of the equipment, which is why you and most pro toggers carry two or more of whatever you decree is important kit.
But taking your example that the primary card fails, do we actually know how the camera would handle that situation, do we know that it would recognise card 1 has failed, corrupted or whatever and continue to write to card 2 or would an error message come up and tell you card 1 had gone awol, if we dont know (and I certainly dont) we are just guessing dual slots would work. It could well be that the camera would carry on writing to card 2 but now you are shooting a wedding without a back-up, I know you wouldnt be happy doing that, so belt and braces do you need 3 slots, just in case. I'm not be deliberately argumentive but you can see the logic, how would you explain that to the bride, end of the day she doesnt care about excuses about only 2 slots etc all she knows is she doesnt have her photos and you're rubbish.
Realistically you can only do so much and I'm guessing there are many many wedding shooters that dont do on the go backup (in camera whilst shooting) and how many of them have had card failure to the point of needing dual simultaneous slots. You have dual cameras and lenses (plus I guess, again, flash guns etc), you can only do so much before your desire to be totally covered becomes excessive.
You need to get things into perspective.
Do you have a spare motorcycle in the boot of your car in case your car breaks down,dual satnav just in case there's roadworks and satnav 1 breaksdown and you dont now know the way, having memorized it beforehand, do you have an assistant/cover (at home waiting by the phone) in case you are taken ill during the wedding, do you have dual insurance in case your provider goes bankrupt, there's only so much you can do and I think most people would say you have done more than enough to cover most eventualities, after all you have insurance (I assume) that will allow you to restage the wedding in the very unlikely event of total equipment failure, although I doubt they would pay out if all you failed to provide were the confetti shots.
On that note if you have a perfect shot but the confetti isnt quite in the right place e,g, obscuring the bride/grooms faces etc I am sure amongst the many other shots you took during that part of the ceremony you could photoshop some in to a suitable image, and please dont argue that during the 20 seconds or so you are walking backwards etc you dont get at least one shot you could use, I am sure you are a very good photographer and one shot isnt beyond your abilities.
 
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MatBin said:
Raymond I applaud your desire to ensure no wedding you shoot will ever leave you in the situation where you dont have a set of images for the bride/groom to purchase and give you a glowing report. I can understand if you have had it happen once you are very aware it may happen again.
But, there's always a but
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There is no But.

Any "but" is laziness, recklessness and pure unprofessional.

That is the minimal criteria for paid work. There is no but, no excuses. Shooting dual cards is a must, it is due diligence. It is simple, it is easy to do.

Sorry, trying to argue otherwise really shows off your un-professionalism IMO.

As for spare motorcycle…do you know how I get around that? I usually travel down the day before, I have AA recovery which can toll me to any destination in the UK, so in theory, i can get toll to my shoot location.

I am sure the client will understand if i die or fallen ill, but do you think they would understand if you choose not to shoot back up? Please don't complicate the subject, this is simply an act of putting in another card into the camera.
 
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Raymond Lin said:
There is no But.

Any "but" is laziness, recklessness and pure unprofessional.

That is the minimal criteria for paid work. There is no but, no excuses. Shooting dual cards is a must, it is due diligence. It is simple, it is easy to do.

Sorry, trying to argue otherwise really shows off your un-professionalism IMO.

As for spare motorcycle…do you know how I get around that? I usually travel down the day before, I have AA recovery which can toll me to any destination in the UK, so in theory, i can get toll to my shoot location.

I am sure the client will understand if i die or fallen ill, but do you think they would understand if you choose not to shoot back up? Please don't complicate the subject, this is simply an act of putting in another card into the camera.
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Again................what would you do if your camera mechanically fails during the confetti shot?
 
Raymond Lin said:
There is no But.

Any "but" is laziness, recklessness and pure unprofessional.

That is the minimal criteria for paid work. There is no but, no excuses. Shooting dual cards is a must, it is due diligence. It is simple, it is easy to do.

Sorry, trying to argue otherwise really shows off your un-professionalism IMO.

As for spare motorcycle…do you know how I get around that? I usually travel down the day before, I have AA recovery which can toll me to any destination in the UK, so in theory, i can get toll to my shoot location.

I am sure the client will understand if i die or fallen ill, but do you think they would understand if you choose not to shoot back up? Please don't complicate the subject, this is simply an act of putting in another card into the camera.
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You ignored what happens if camera 1 has a problem with slot 1 you arent aware of and have no backup without realising it (that was my "but" question). If dual cards is minimal in your eyes why arent there 3 slots in a professional camera, just in case, how far do you take that argument, 4 slots, 6 slots?
You ignored my question about what happens when card 1 fails - what does the camera do, would you always be aware.
AA cover, great, you should at least have that as a minimum, they generally take an hour or more to get to you, you'd probably miss the wedding, unless I guess you set off 3 hrs before you need to get to the location, bride not impressed, slags your reputation, you arent sufficiently covered if you dont have another vehilcle IMO - see how silly it can all get?
You ignored my question about having at least 1 decent image.

I'm not complicating it, I'm suggesting you need to get a proper focus on how much arse covering you can do but you are now moving the argument away from your original of "why arent the slots the same speed" to "you must shoot to 2 cards" and no-one least of all me has an argument with that.
 
MatBin said:
You ignored what happens if camera 1 has a problem with slot 1 you arent aware of and have no backup without realising it (that was my "but" question). If dual cards is minimal in your eyes why arent there 3 slots in a professional camera, just in case, how far do you take that argument, 4 slots, 6 slots?
You ignored my question about what happens when card 1 fails - what does the camera do, would you always be aware.
AA cover, great, you should at least have that as a minimum, they generally take an hour or more to get to you, you'd probably miss the wedding, unless I guess you set off 3 hrs before you need to get to the location, bride not impressed, slags your reputation, you arent sufficiently covered if you dont have another vehilcle IMO - see how silly it can all get?
You ignored my question about having at least 1 decent image.

I'm not complicating it, I'm suggesting you need to get a proper focus on how much arse covering you can do but you are now moving the argument away from your original of "why arent the slots the same speed" to "you must shoot to 2 cards" and no-one least of all me has an argument with that.
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I didn't ignore, i just didn't read it, frankly when you went not the "but" my mind blanked out because anything else is ridiculous. Sorry! especially when there is no paragraphs.

I think you missed the bit where i travel down the day before? I have like a whole day to get there. When i shoot abroad I give myself 2 days to get there.

It's a simple question here. Not about other things, I am talking about memory cards as back up and you are trying to bring all kinds of other aspect into it trying to justify not shooting a back up. What if this, what if that.

As for you don't hear wedding photographers talking about card failures…if they have, do you think they want to publicise this to the world???? Really? you have to ask?
 
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Raymond Lin said:
I have another one over my other shoulder.
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Same lens? I'm guessing yes. Both cameras never need a lens swap at some point? Tbh if you have 2 cameras with identical lenses and extra lenses for different shots in your pocket plus flash guns etc you are carrying too much kit because you chose the wrong kit in the first place and now you are so paranoid about card failure or missing the shot because the slots dont write fast enough you have become blind to the solution, proposed by many people, including pro shooters (not me). You complained about not using a 1DX as it was too heaving/expensive yet you tell us (on another thread) that you have done a lot of weddings, the slight (overall) expense of running your business (staying over the night before, regular servicing, off site backup etc) of getting the proper toll (tax deductable, vat refundable) is peanuts. Surely 2 1DX dont weigh as much as the kit you have forced yourself into carrying.
 
MatBin said:
Same lens? I'm guessing yes. Both cameras never need a lens swap at some point? Tbh if you have 2 cameras with identical lenses and extra lenses for different shots in your pocket plus flash guns etc you are carrying too much kit because you chose the wrong kit in the first place and now you are so paranoid about card failure or missing the shot because the slots dont write fast enough you have become blind to the solution, proposed by many people, including pro shooters (not me). You complained about not using a 1DX as it was too heaving/expensive yet you tell us (on another thread) that you have done a lot of weddings, the slight (overall) expense of running your business (staying over the night before, regular servicing, off site backup etc) of getting the proper toll (tax deductable, vat refundable) is peanuts. Surely 2 1DX dont weigh as much as the kit you have forced yourself into carrying.
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I have the same focal length twice covered in my bag. One set pf primes, one set of zooms. So yes, I can shoot that focal length again, if i want to. But it's 24mm/35mm over the shoulder, both on a 5D4 during the confetti, I have explained this twice in this thread already.

I don't mind carrying 2 cameras of the current weight (5D), I however don't want to shoot 2 x 1Ds's weight. But you are now trying to change the subject again with the weight…i am talking about shooting back up cards.
 
Raymond Lin said:
It's a simple question here. Not about other things, I am talking about memory cards as back up and you are trying to bring all kinds of other aspect into it trying to justify not shooting a back up.
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Nobody has said dont shoot back-up, I reiterate you started the thread with the question about speed of slots not about back-up, you have moved it away from the original question and I tried to answer that question, backup is important of course, there's a limit to how much you can cover all eventualities and if the write speed is so important you need to man-up and get the correct kit instead of whinging and whining that Canon have got it wrong but you have been told that by many people and you arent listening.
 
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I asked, What would you do if the camera had a mechanical fault and you replied:

Raymond Lin said:
I have another one over my other shoulder.
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Raymond,

the whole reason you are arguing for dual equal speeds slots was that you didn't want to walk backwards with two cameras incase you tripped an fell over (Post No.96):

Raymond Lin said:
Now carry both so now walk backwards with both on you. You start the shot or the walk backwards with the longer 35mm, when the buffer fills you quickly swap it over, all the while walking backwards...you swap it over to the 24mm because the couple would’ve have caught up with you and close the distance, if that fills up you swap it again.

Now won’t it be nice if I didn’t have to swap bodies while walking backwards with people surrounding me, legs sticking out, arms waving??? Clearly you can see the hazard and the potential of falling with at least one camera hitting the floor.
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So..............fixing the issue you have will not solve the problem; can you see this or explain where I have got it wrong?
 
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Hey I got one,
What if you fall ill and start being sick, do you take a spare photographer too? :D lol
 
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