The virus. PPE. Part 1

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cambsno said:
Dont know - I despise Boris but give him a chance. Soon into Churchill's reign there was Dunkirk (good or bad depending on your view) the Battle of Britain where we hung on by a thread and the blitz - not a great start but he won in the end!
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Since moving in to number 10, BoJo has had Brexit, the floods (remember them) and now this, as well as having to establish a new government. His other half is also pregnant.

The man looks haggard & tired, but his glass is always half full, and he speaks with authority. He has done what his specialist advisors told him to do (medical & scientific). They said "don't lock it down too soon as the effect won't be as great". Maybe one of you lot ought to be up there advising him, as so many of you seem to know so much more.....
 
cambsno said:
Dont know - I despise Boris but give him a chance. Soon into Churchill's reign there was Dunkirk (good or bad depending on your view) the Battle of Britain where we hung on by a thread and the blitz - not a great start but he won the Soviet Union saved us in the end!
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FTFY :).
But I wasn‘t referring to Churchill’s conduct of the war but to his campaigning prior while out of Government and there has been nothing from Boris like Churchill’s "blood, toil, tears and sweat" speech in 1940, (which I well remember, as 3 year old glued to my crystal set NOT :)).
 
cambsno said:
So your saying we should plan for stuff that happens every hundred years?

I don't understand, apart from trying to spread the peak, what else can we do, we cant invent a vaccine in days and we cant blow it up?
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No but neither should we reduce the capability of the NHS to such an extent that they can barely cope on a day to day basis, there has to be extra capacity within the system.
The UK has 8175 ventilators(NHS 6699 adult, 750 paediatric, 691 in the private sector and the MOD has 35) The Germans had 25000.
 
Jelster said:
Since moving in to number 10, BoJo has had Brexit, the floods (remember them) and now this, as well as having to establish a new government
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None of which he’s done well — too late with the floods, remember?
His other half is also pregnant.
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Oh yes, and he’s going on leave when the baby is born. Politicians these days want a “work life balance” but still want the power and money! Sorry but it’s a 365/7/24 job sometimes.
The man looks haggard & tired, but his glass is always half full, and he speaks with authority.
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What does this even mean. He talks with a lot of plosives and some arm waving? It’s content that matters. I‘m not interested in hearing the PM explaining how to wash my hands :(.
He has done what his specialist advisors told him to do (medical & scientific). They said "don't lock it down too soon as the effect won't be as great". Maybe one of you lot ought to be up there advising him, as so many of you seem to know so much more.....
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Not sure but I think his specialist advisors have gone astray :(. And yes, I, and many others, thought we should have started earlier. We didn’t have the excuse that the Chinese had of hoping it would go away :(.
 
I think the biggest mistake was the belief in 'herd immunity'. I'm sure that D. Cummings favoured that then changed his mind to this so-called lockdown which is a bit of an emotive term and has probably caused more panic than if they'd called it 'restriction on movements measures'
 
cambsno said:
But the point it is just politcial scoring to criticise the government seeing as virtually every country has the same health crisis bar Germany (so far) - the thing is that we have not been affected by anything on this scale (since Spanish flu?) - we didnt get ebola or SARS did we?

I dont know of the lifespans of these things but suppose we did stockpile certain equipment, how much cash would we have wasted with stuff that was never used and is now out of date?
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I want this country to be doing things better than anyone else and not say "Spain and Italy are handling this badly, no reason why we should do any better".

Re stockpiling, you are missing the point. The NHS has been cut to the bone so badly that it cant cope in a normal winter.
 
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No 10 accused of putting 'Brexit over breathing' in Covid-19 ventilator row

'Critics accused Boris Johnson of putting “Brexit over breathing” after No 10 said it did not need to participate in the EU effort to procure equipment to fight coronavirus. The EU has said it is open to the UK taking part in the programme, which seeks to use its bulk-buying power to get new ventilators at the best price. The UK has instead chosen to source ventilators from British manufacturers who have never made the products before, ordering 10,000 machines from the household appliance firm Dyson. Asked why the UK was not taking part, the prime minister’s official spokesman said: “We are no longer members of the EU.” He also stressed that the UK was “making our own efforts” in this area. When asked whether it would be hard for people to understand this decision, particularly in the light of the fact Johnson has called for international cooperation in the fight against coronavirus, the spokesman said: “I’m not sure that it is.”'

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2...xit-over-breathing-in-covid-19-ventilator-row
 
Jelster said:
...
..He has done what his specialist advisors told him to do (medical & scientific). They said "don't lock it down too soon as the effect won't be as great".....
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Sounds like the work of the behavioural team, not epidemiologists or clinicians that he should have been listening to.

And haven't you stopped to think about that 'dont lock down too soon' comment? In what way would the effect not be so great?
 
Interesting article on possible strategies in dealing with the virus here
https://SPAM/@tomaspueyo/coronavirus-the-hammer-and-the-dance-be9337092b56



Conclusion: Buy Us Time
The coronavirus is still spreading nearly everywhere. 152 countries have cases. We are against the clock. But we don’t need to be: there’s a clear way we can be thinking about this.
Some countries, especially those that haven’t been hit heavily yet by the coronavirus, might be wondering: Is this going to happen to me? The answer is: It probably already has. You just haven’t noticed. When it really hits, your healthcare system will be in even worse shape than in wealthy countries where the healthcare systems are strong. Better safe than sorry, you should consider taking action now.
For the countries where the coronavirus is already here, the options are clear.
On one side, countries can go the mitigation route: create a massive epidemic, overwhelm the healthcare system, drive the death of millions of people, and release new mutations of this virus in the wild.
On the other, countries can fight. They can lock down for a few weeks to buy us time, create an educated action plan, and control this virus until we have a vaccine.
Governments around the world today, including some such as the US, the UK or Switzerland have so far chosen the mitigation path.
That means they’re giving up without a fight. They see other countries having successfully fought this, but they say: “We can’t do that!”
What if Churchill had said the same thing? “Nazis are already everywhere in Europe. We can’t fight them. Let’s just give up.” This is what many governments around the world are doing today. They’re not giving you a chance to fight this. You have to demand it.
 
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Rapscallion said:
I want this country to be doing things better than anyone else and not say "Spain and Italy are handling this badly, no reason why we should do any better".

Re stockpiling, you are missing the point. The NHS has been cut to the bone so badly that it cant cope in a normal winter.
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Exactly, and exactly why there was a delay phase in the first place!
 
sphexx said:
Not sure but I think his specialist advisors have gone astray :(. And yes, I, and many others, thought we should have started earlier. We didn’t have the excuse that the Chinese had of hoping it would go away :(.
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Like I said, maybe you should be up there telling him what to do, you seem to know much more about it than anyone else. I have to ask, if a Socialist government had made similar (in your opinion) "mistakes", would you be on their backs as much? I doubt it....
 
Rapscallion said:
And haven't you stopped to think about that 'dont lock down too soon' comment? In what way would the effect not be so great?
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I don't have to, I know sweet FA about how to control a virus, nor does a PM, that's why they have specialist advisors, This thread is so typical of the Internet. One day you're a photographer, the next day you're a specialist in contagious diseases.....
 
Retune said:
No 10 accused of putting 'Brexit over breathing' in Covid-19 ventilator row

'Critics accused Boris Johnson of putting “Brexit over breathing” after No 10 said it did not need to participate in the EU effort to procure equipment to fight coronavirus. The EU has said it is open to the UK taking part in the programme, which seeks to use its bulk-buying power to get new ventilators at the best price. The UK has instead chosen to source ventilators from British manufacturers who have never made the products before, ordering 10,000 machines from the household appliance firm Dyson. Asked why the UK was not taking part, the prime minister’s official spokesman said: “We are no longer members of the EU.” He also stressed that the UK was “making our own efforts” in this area. When asked whether it would be hard for people to understand this decision, particularly in the light of the fact Johnson has called for international cooperation in the fight against coronavirus, the spokesman said: “I’m not sure that it is.”'

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2...xit-over-breathing-in-covid-19-ventilator-row
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Just read that - possibly the most stupid thing ever done!!! Pathetic
 
Retune said:
No 10 accused of putting 'Brexit over breathing' in Covid-19 ventilator row

'Critics accused Boris Johnson of putting “Brexit over breathing” after No 10 said it did not need to participate in the EU effort to procure equipment to fight coronavirus. The EU has said it is open to the UK taking part in the programme, which seeks to use its bulk-buying power to get new ventilators at the best price. The UK has instead chosen to source ventilators from British manufacturers who have never made the products before, ordering 10,000 machines from the household appliance firm Dyson. Asked why the UK was not taking part, the prime minister’s official spokesman said: “We are no longer members of the EU.” He also stressed that the UK was “making our own efforts” in this area. When asked whether it would be hard for people to understand this decision, particularly in the light of the fact Johnson has called for international cooperation in the fight against coronavirus, the spokesman said: “I’m not sure that it is.”'

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2...xit-over-breathing-in-covid-19-ventilator-row
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James Dyson, another long term Tory party member & donor, what a coincidence?

https://www.thecanary.co/discovery/...s-company-to-manufacture-crucial-ventilators/
 
sphexx said:
None of which he’s done well — too late with the floods, remember?

Oh yes, and he’s going on leave when the baby is born. Politicians these days want a “work life balance” but still want the power and money! Sorry but it’s a 365/7/24 job sometimes.

What does this even mean. He talks with a lot of plosives and some arm waving? It’s content that matters. I‘m not interested in hearing the PM explaining how to wash my hands :(.

Not sure but I think his specialist advisors have gone astray :(. And yes, I, and many others, thought we should have started earlier. We didn’t have the excuse that the Chinese had of hoping it would go away :(.
Click to expand...

Sorry but I would go with the advice of the CSO and CMO rather than the folks on here, Piers Morgan, and the rest of the "barrack room lawyers".
I find it staggering that people think they've got the data and expertise to second guess them.
 
The sooner all the political backstabbing bullcrap stops and everyone starts pulling together, the better. Bitching about what should have been done is as much use as a chocolate teapot. Fine to hold a post mortem (no pun intended) when the situation is under control but for the time being, just get on with the jobs that need doing.
 
Credit where's its due -Grants for self employed.
 
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I think many pragmatic governments, given the opportunity of joining the EU's emergency procurement scheme or buying from an unproven domestic source, would try both. No country dealing with this pandemic at its height has had a surplus of ventilators. When you run out of them, doctors have to choose who to attempt to save, and who to allow to die.
 
Jelster said:
Like I said, maybe you should be up there telling him what to do, you seem to know much more about it than anyone else. I have to ask, if a Socialist government had made similar (in your opinion) "mistakes", would you be on their backs as much? I doubt it....
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Aside from the fact that we’ve never had a Socialist government, why would you think that? And the prof of the pudding is in the eating, I and many others here and elsewhere have put forward a better strategy than the government originally had and to which they are now playing catch-up. Judging by their performance generally over the years, many/most MPs couldn't organise a p*** up in a brewery :(.
 
Cockney said:
Sorry but I would go with the advice of the CSO and CMO rather than the folks on here, Piers Morgan, and the rest of the "barrack room lawyers".
I find it staggering that people think they've got the data and expertise to second guess them.
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Sometimes advisers are constrained by what the advisees are willing to accept. I think we’ve been fortunate with our CSO & CMO, we could have had a nuclear physicist and a brain surgeon in their place :) instead of two appropriately qualified people for a pandemic :).
 
dod said:
that's an interesting one. The EU already has an approved scheme in place and there's no guarantee that Dyson can actually deliver.
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/arti...virus-fight-but-won-t-join-eu-ventilator-plan
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Utter idealogical madness. :(.
I’m curious about Dyson, they make their stuff in Malaysia and Singapore. I read that 3 of 4 surgical gloves are made in Malaysia and that Malaysia was controlling their export to make sure they had enough, so if Dyson makes ventilators in Malaysia will he be allowed to export them?
 
sphexx said:
Utter idealogical madness. :(.
I’m curious about Dyson, they make their stuff in Malaysia and Singapore. I read that 3 of 4 surgical gloves are made in Malaysia and that Malaysia was controlling their export to make sure they had enough, so if Dyson makes ventilators in Malaysia will he be allowed to export them?
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The factory is here.
 
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