The virus. PPE. Part 1

Status
Not open for further replies.
nilagin said:
From the Independent story

That sounds more like their oxygen tanks aren't big enough to cope with demand rather than a problem getting oxygen delivered due to shortages.
Click to expand...
No one said that.
If they don't have enough, they have a shortage, regardless of the reason.
If the tanks arent big enough to cope with demand, they could run out, and therefore they would have a shortage.
I haven't read that it was a problem getting it delivered due to shortages.
Did you make that bit up?
None of the news reports actually mention shortages.
 
Last edited:
Bobsyeruncle said:
It wasn't.
All those stories relate to increase in demand potentially causing shortages, not issues with actual supply or deliveries.
Click to expand...
Try reading the other two posts that he quoted, one of which was mine. Why quote posts saying there isn't likely to be supply problems if the post was intended to be about the amount they had at the time. ?
 
Bobsyeruncle said:
It wasn't.
All those stories relate to increase in demand potentially causing shortages, not issues with actual supply or deliveries.
Click to expand...

Not being onsite I don't know for certain, but I should guess that the problem is one of delivering oxygen through the internal pipework - based on information from previous posts about this. It was (understandably) never scaled to manage this kind of demand, and I'd expect the system simply doesn't have capacity.
 
nilagin said:
Try reading the other two posts that he quoted, one of which was mine. Why quote posts saying there isn't likely to be supply problems if the post was intended to be about the amount they had at the time. ?
Click to expand...
Right, I see where you're coming from now.
I was relating it only to the links provided.
:)
 
ancient_mariner said:
Not being onsite I don't know for certain, but I should guess that the problem is one of delivering oxygen through the internal pipework - based on information from previous posts about this. It was (understandably) never scaled to manage this kind of demand, and I'd expect the system simply doesn't have capacity.
Click to expand...


Might also be a leaky pipe somewhere in the bowels (or walls) of the building. While Oxygen can be a lifesaver, you don't really want it floating around in concentrated form. Unfortunate that the hospital in question has discovered the problem (whatever it might be) at this point in history but sh*t happens.
 
“In September 2018, the Trump administration received detailed plans for a new machine designed to churn out millions of protective respirator masks at high speed during a pandemic.

The plans, submitted to the Department of Health and Human Services (HHS) by medical manufacturer O&M Halyard, were the culmination of a venture unveiled almost three years earlier by the Obama administration.

But HHS did not proceed with making the machine.

The project was one of two N95 mask ventures — totaling $9.8 million — that the federal government embarked on over the past five years to better prepare for pandemics.

The other involves the development of reusable masks to replace the single-use variety .

Expert panels have advised the government for at least 14 years that reusable masks were vital.”

https://www.washingtonpost.com/inve...il&utm_source=newsletter&wpisrc=nl_tyh&wpmk=1
 
I've been having some problems getting decent performance from audio calls in MS Teams/Skype on my phone since the lockdown. Apparently the impact of pandemics on voice communication isn't a new problem:

i-nytelephone-piedmont.jpg


Interesting article: https://www.fastcompany.com/90484820/how-1918s-spanish-flu-outbreak-crushed-the-u-s-telephone-system
 
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2020/apr/05/scotland-chief-medical-officer-seen-flouting-lockdown-advice-catherine-calderwood 10

I don't know what annoys me more, that the CMO decided the advice did not apply to her and her family, or that the Scottish Government gave a supporting statement.
I reckon the SG should have contacted the CMO and said, "You fouled up there." "We are going to issue a statement saying your actions were wrong and against advice and we suggest you issue an apology and reiterate the advice to stay at home."

If, as it said in the article, the CMO wanted to check on her second home because she would not get back to it until the crisis is over why was it necessary to take all the family - it is only an hour away from Edinburgh.

Dave
 
Tringa said:
I reckon the SG should have contacted the CMO and said, "You fouled up there." "We are going to issue a statement saying your actions were wrong and against advice and we suggest you issue an apology and reiterate the advice to stay at home."
Click to expand...
...or simply: "You're sacked. We can't afford an idiot like you at the moment."
 
Last edited:
Tringa said:
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2020/apr/05/scotland-chief-medical-officer-seen-flouting-lockdown-advice-catherine-calderwood 10

I don't know what annoys me more, that the CMO decided the advice did not apply to her and her family, or that the Scottish Government gave a supporting statement.
I reckon the SG should have contacted the CMO and said, "You fouled up there." "We are going to issue a statement saying your actions were wrong and against advice and we suggest you issue an apology and reiterate the advice to stay at home."

If, as it said in the article, the CMO wanted to check on her second home because she would not get back to it until the crisis is over why was it necessary to take all the family - it is only an hour away from Edinburgh.

Dave
Click to expand...

It would appear that the CMO visited and stayed overnight without contravening the social separation rules. That being so there was no risk to anyone.
Events like that are, predictably, a magnet for the "mountain out of a molehill " brigade.
 
arclight said:
It would appear that the CMO visited and stayed overnight without contravening the social separation rules. That being so there was no risk to anyone.
Events like that are, predictably, a magnet for the "mountain out of a molehill " brigade.
Click to expand...

I accept the increase in the spread of the virus due to the CMO visiting her holiday home is likely to have been nil, but if it is OK for her to make such a visit then it must be considered OK for anyone who has a holiday home to do the same.

I can't see how someone who has a senior medical position in Scotland can say, as the CMO for England has, the best way of stop the spread of coronavirus is to stay at home and then ignore it. It sends the wrong message.

Dave
 
Last edited:
Tringa said:
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2020/apr/05/scotland-chief-medical-officer-seen-flouting-lockdown-advice-catherine-calderwood 10

I don't know what annoys me more, that the CMO decided the advice did not apply to her and her family, or that the Scottish Government gave a supporting statement.
I reckon the SG should have contacted the CMO and said, "You fouled up there." "We are going to issue a statement saying your actions were wrong and against advice and we suggest you issue an apology and reiterate the advice to stay at home."

If, as it said in the article, the CMO wanted to check on her second home because she would not get back to it until the crisis is over why was it necessary to take all the family - it is only an hour away from Edinburgh.

Dave
Click to expand...
jockwav said:
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politic...-medical-officer-caught-visiting-second-home/

Chief medical officer visiting her second home
Click to expand...
Do keep up
 
arclight said:
It would appear that the CMO visited and stayed overnight without contravening the social separation rules. That being so there was no risk to anyone.
Events like that are, predictably, a magnet for the "mountain out of a molehill " brigade.
Click to expand...
Events like that are also a magnet for all the idiots to crawl out the woodwork claiming what's the harm?
People were specifically told not to do that, and its unnecessary travel regardless of the level of risk and as CMO she should know better.
 
Last edited:
IMO a big slap a massive fine and locked up will do him good.

UK man charged after allegedly wiping spit on food
A man has been charged after allegedly wiping his saliva on food products in a supermarket in Dorset, in south-west England.
The 20-year-old wore a face mask and gloves when entering the Lidl store in Bridport on Friday afternoon, police said.
He was then seen licking his fingers before "purposefully" rubbing them onto an item in the store, they said.
The man was arrested and charged with an offence of contaminating or interfering with goods with intent. He is due to appear in court on Monday.
Police said the suspect was not displaying any symptoms of Covid-19.
 
arclight said:
Events like that are, predictably, a magnet for the "mountain out of a molehill " brigade.
Click to expand...
The higher up the greasy pole one climbs the further one can slide.
 
Tringa said:
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2020/apr/05/scotland-chief-medical-officer-seen-flouting-lockdown-advice-catherine-calderwood 10

I don't know what annoys me more, that the CMO decided the advice did not apply to her and her family, or that the Scottish Government gave a supporting statement.
I reckon the SG should have contacted the CMO and said, "You fouled up there." "We are going to issue a statement saying your actions were wrong and against advice and we suggest you issue an apology and reiterate the advice to stay at home."

If, as it said in the article, the CMO wanted to check on her second home because she would not get back to it until the crisis is over why was it necessary to take all the family - it is only an hour away from Edinburgh.
Click to expand...

I do agree that it was a pretty stupid thing for anyone to do least of all someone who's job it is to reinforce the stay at home message coming from the government and a grovelling apology is the least she should do, but it's probably not the best time to sack your CMO, but after this is all over well that's different.
 
Gloriously and unashamedly eccentric! (Lord Bath!)
 
tarric said:
I do agree that it was a pretty stupid thing for anyone to do least of all someone who's job it is to reinforce the stay at home message coming from the government and a grovelling apology is the least she should do, but it's probably not the best time to sack your CMO, but after this is all over well that's different.
Click to expand...

Tend to agree.

She should not have done it but has now apologised. The apology seems straightforward without any weasel words(though as she was bang to rights it could hardly be anything else) so I don't think anything can be gained by her resignation.

Dave
 
Tringa said:
Tend to agree.

She should not have done it but has now apologised. The apology seems straightforward without any weasel words(though as she was bang to rights it could hardly be anything else) so I don't think anything can be gained by her resignation.

Dave
Click to expand...

She has admitted to doing it more than once now though.. which isn't great
 
Fuji Dave said:
IMO a big slap a massive fine and locked up will do him good.

UK man charged after allegedly wiping spit on food
A man has been charged after allegedly wiping his saliva on food products in a supermarket in Dorset, in south-west England.
The 20-year-old wore a face mask and gloves when entering the Lidl store in Bridport on Friday afternoon, police said.
He was then seen licking his fingers before "purposefully" rubbing them onto an item in the store, they said.
The man was arrested and charged with an offence of contaminating or interfering with goods with intent. He is due to appear in court on Monday.
Police said the suspect was not displaying any symptoms of Covid-19.
Click to expand...
Oh dear that’s where red robin lives .hope he don’t shop there ,but he’s more a Waitrose snob type LOL
 
Tringa said:
Tend to agree.

She should not have done it but has now apologised. The apology seems straightforward without any weasel words(though as she was bang to rights it could hardly be anything else) so I don't think anything can be gained by her resignation.

Dave
Click to expand...

But she has been grounded, so a bit of a public slap on wrist.

As reported on BBC news:

First Minister Nicola Sturgeon says she is "acutely aware" of the importance of public trust in government advice to stay at home, and that Dr Catherine Calderwood will no longer have a public-facing role.

"To maintain that trust we will be revising our public information campaign and the chief medical officer will be withdrawing from media briefings for the foreseeable future," she said.

"She will continue to provide the Scottish government with the scientific and medical advice on the spread of coronavirus."
 
Although it seems certain the lockdown will be officially extended, I just wonder what ideas anyone is going to suggest for an exit stratergy. With no cure, no vaccine and presumably thousands still infected in the community how we get out of this I don't know:confused:
 
The CMO is on scottish news admitting she did the same the weekend before!
 
myotis said:
But she has been grounded, so a bit of a public slap on wrist.

As reported on BBC news:

First Minister Nicola Sturgeon says she is "acutely aware" of the importance of public trust in government advice to stay at home, and that Dr Catherine Calderwood will no longer have a public-facing role.

"To maintain that trust we will be revising our public information campaign and the chief medical officer will be withdrawing from media briefings for the foreseeable future," she said.

"She will continue to provide the Scottish government with the scientific and medical advice on the spread of coronavirus."
Click to expand...

But she really couldn't do any press briefings now, as they would always come back to her not following her own advice.
 
munch said:
But she really couldn't do any press briefings now, as they would always come back to her not following her own advice.
Click to expand...
Good point, but I still thought it better than everything just carrying on as if nothing had happened.
 
Peter10d said:
Although it seems certain the lockdown will be officially extended, I just wonder what ideas anyone is going to suggest for an exit stratergy. With no cure, no vaccine and presumably thousands still infected in the community how we get out of this I don't know:confused:
Click to expand...
I've posted this Twitter thread from virologist Trevor Bedford a few times. A few elements of this sort of approach have been mentioned recently by UK advisers, but whether anyone will be bold enough to implement it as a coherent strategy remains to be seen. Here's an unroll of the thread:

https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1240444821593944064.html

View: https://BANNED/trvrb/status/1240444821593944064
 
Last edited:
Apart from the events what strikes me about highly intelligent people at the top of their game, is that they seem to be strangers to what most of us would call common sense, exercising good judgement ,ie. being prudent.Here's someone who has been the CMO for Scotland since 2015 .She's worked as a consultant obstetrician and gynaecologist. She qualified from Cambridge and Glasgow universities, was appointed expert panel member on the Morecombe Bay Investigation looking into maternal and neonatal services in that location and held the position of NHS National Clinical Director for maternity and womens' health.

Last month the Scottish Government issued a travel warning criticising 'irresponsible behaviour of people with second homes and camper vans travelling to the Highlands in a bid to isolate'
She has personally said "To help save lives stay at home" Her journey from Edinburgh to Earlsferry is over an hour's drive..45 miles. She appears to have been subject to 'motivated reasoning' ie to justify doing what she must surely have known was wrong in claiming that she complied with social distancing. On one occasion she was with her children and the second,her husband. I see Jockwav (above post)is saying she's on Scottish news admitting she did the same journey last weekend. So, she convinced herself it's ok but crucially didn't think beyond that, not to the advice she'd given to the public but that as someone who appeared on tv each day would most likely be recognised which is what happened and someone took a photo of her and her daughter walking near their Earlsferry home.

I'd have thought of that myself and for that reason alone (let alone the possibility of a traffic accident) would not have taken the journey but I'm not super intelligent. I work on the basis of 'what can happen, will happen' and in her case it did... :)
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top