The younger, or more timid generation.

Double that and you could buy our 2 bedroom flat and a few grand change. You won't get a garden or garage, but you will get use of a communal drying area.

I remember years ago a guy I worked with bought a house with his sister and took a lot of flack for it. I defended him just by pointing out the cost of property (high where he lived) and this probably being the best way to do it... if they got on.

The problem in my area is getting a decent job but I do have to say that I was never out of work and there were jobs going before c19. Hopefully the redevelopment at the nearby now defunct steel making plant will pull in some well paid jobs but of course that'll lead to rising house prices.
 
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I remember years ago a guy I worked with bought a house with his sister and took a lot of flack for it. I defended him just by pointing out the cost of property (high where he lived) and this probably being the best way to do it... if they got on.

The problem in my area is getting a decent job but I do have to say that I was never out of work and there were jobs going before c19. Hopefully the redevelopment at the nearby now defunct steel making plant will pull in some well paid jobs but of course that'll lead to rising house prices.
Because we live on the outskirts of London, just inside the M25, property prices are high, but not as high as you move into London more. Working for Ford means fairly good wages. When our toolroom closed in 2013, one of my mates turned dow voluntary redundancy, but relocated to the Bridgend plant in Wales. He sold his flat in Essex and bought himself a 5 bedroom house in Wales instead. I can understand why the Bridgend employees are annoyed now that their plant will be closing in September, they will get redundancy money plus pension for those 55+, but I doubt they will have much chance of finding another job there paying anywhere near as much. They must have felt like millionaires with all the spare money they had each week.
 
Because we live on the outskirts of London, just inside the M25, property prices are high, but not as high as you move into London more. Working for Ford means fairly good wages. When our toolroom closed in 2013, one of my mates turned dow voluntary redundancy, but relocated to the Bridgend plant in Wales. He sold his flat in Essex and bought himself a 5 bedroom house in Wales instead. I can understand why the Bridgend employees are annoyed now that their plant will be closing in September, they will get redundancy money plus pension for those 55+, but I doubt they will have much chance of finding another job there paying anywhere near as much. They must have felt like millionaires with all the spare money they had each week.

I really do feel for the young in the south east. Some could do as your friend did at some point for an easier lifestyle and a bigger affordable house but that'll mean leaving family and friends behind. What a choice.

I was a workaholic and I had decent jobs but ten years ago I decided I'd had enough and quit at 49 intending to find something unpaid to volunteer for but instead I had a few holidays overseas (well more than a few) got married and now I'm a full time carer. I don't know if I could have done that in the south east. I did work in the SE but not for long, while in Bracknell I got TUPE'd to a company in Farnborough but I stuck to my contract and pushed for redundancy and got it. This was Christmas time so I had a few months off then walked into another decent job in the NE. I nearly quit work when leaving the SE but decided I wasn't emotionally ready. Mrs WW quit work (a really good job) just over 4 years ago and she's only just starting to adjust now.

For anyone in the SE I really don't know what to say. If family ties allow I'd recommend getting out for a quieter life and a bigger house but on less money. Some would miss the busy life though and of course it's sad that for some this could be the best chance to own their own home and have a decent quality of life.

PS.
While I was working I heard a story on the radio that stayed with me about a guy who quit his London career and moved to Cornwall where he married a woman with three kids. He said "I used to have a Merc but it was always empty. Now I have a Metro and it's always full."

:D
 
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Our old Victorian (large) 3 bed terrace house in East London went for close on £750,000 last time it was sold.
Not by us unfortunately, we bought it for just under 48 grand in 1988, that is some price increase
 
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I really do feel for the young in the south east. Some could do as your friend did at some point for an easier lifestyle and a bigger affordable house but that'll mean leaving family and friends behind. What a choice.

I was a workaholic and I had decent jobs but ten years ago I decided I'd had enough and quit at 49 intending to find something unpaid to volunteer for but instead I had a few holidays overseas (well more than a few) got married and now I'm a full time carer. I don't know if I could have done that in the south east. I did work in the SE but not for long, while in Bracknell I got TUPE'd to a company in Farnborough but I stuck to my contract and pushed for redundancy and got it. This was Christmas time so I had a few months off then walked into another decent job in the NE. I nearly quit work when leaving the SE but decided I wasn't emotionally ready. Mrs WW quit work (a really good job) just over 4 years ago and she's only just starting to adjust now.

For anyone in the SE I really don't know what to say. If family ties allow I'd recommend getting out for a quieter life and a bigger house but on less money. Some would miss the busy life though and of course it's sad that for some this could be the best chance to own their own home and have a decent quality of life.

PS.
While I was working I heard a story on the radio that stayed with me about a guy who quit his London career and moved to Cornwall where he married a woman with three kids. He said "I used to have a Merc but it was always empty. Now I have a Metro and it's always full."

:D
My eldest son and his girlfriend have bought a house in the South East, they live about 35 miles from us. He has a 40 mile drive to work, but she can walk to work. He is a lorry driver for Jewsons, she is a manageress in the childrens section of a Clarks shoe shop. They manage just fine between them, he has a one year old car on pcp that he replaces every couple of years, but other than that, the mortgage and a small loan on a guitar, they are debt free.
I am quite happy where I live, Brands Hatch is not far the other side of the Dartford Crossing, we are local enough for driving into London for concerts, I wouldn't want to leave the gym I go to, too many people I get on well with and enjoy the banter. Work is an 8 minute drive away. Plus we are on the edge of the countryside too. I have another 8,5yrs before I reach retirement age, I am in no hurry to retire as I feel I have a good work / homelife balance, but when I do retire, I really wouldn't want to move from the area, I've lived in the same town all my life. The wife might want to move, especially as her parents moved close to my eldest son just under a year ago, she can move if she likes, I am staying put. :)
 
I don't believe you :D

I had the chance to move to Kazakhstan and could be living in Thailand now and I do like both apart from the heat but I've always liked the NE of England.
 
Our old Victorian (large) 3 bed terrace house in East London went for close on £750,000 last time it was sold.
Not by us unfortunately, we bought it for just under 48 grand in 1988, that is some price increase
My wifes grandparents lived in South Woodford in a tiny 3 bed terrace. The bathroom and toilet were an extension on the back of the kitchen.
After they died, my mother in law, sold the house about 3 years ago, and got about £550k, for it. It really needed alot of modernising though. No gas, no heating apart from a couple of electric heaters. The kitchen cupboards had to be about 80 years old, all the windows and doors needed replacing, a leaky roof to fix, it was surprising she got anywhere near what she did. The bloke who bought it, stripped it all out and completely. Modernised it, when I was shown photos of the interior, I didn't even recogine it. The bloke had it up for around £780k. Knowing how small the house was, that is a criminal amount. I wouldn't have even given anywhere near £80k for it,
 
I was offered a job in Oakland, CA back in the 80's
Young and daft so stayed here, no regrets, but wondered a couple of times what it might have been like.
 
Our old Victorian (large) 3 bed terrace house in East London went for close on £750,000 last time it was sold.
Not by us unfortunately, we bought it for just under 48 grand in 1988, that is some price increase

I saw one house I once lived in, a 3 bed terrace near Mile End; was on the market for around £750k, a couple of years ago. :eek: My dad paid about £5000 for it in 1972. Sadly, he never got to enjoy the appreciation, cos he lost that place due to failed business ventures. Hey ho. I'm just glad I'm not now in a situation where that would have been my inheritance...

House and rental costs are now absolutely ridiculous. When I was at school in the late 70s and 80s, teachers could easily afford to buy homes (one of ours bought a place on the Isle of Dogs in the 80s, how everyone laughed at him (the Island was not a 'desirable' location back then...). How he must have had the last laugh...)). Now, we know teachers who are sharing houses with others. Ditto lawyers, doctors, etc. The kind of professions where people were paid well enough to be able to afford quite nice houses. Not now. They can't get mortgages. Rents for anything reasonable within zone 2, are now ridiculous, like £2000 a month for a 2 bed flat. Etc. It's easy to say 'what are the young people moaning about' when you've safely got your own home bought and are secure, but no way would I want to be young and trying to buy a home in London now. This situation is breaking up communities, families and our society. But then we're now seeing a stagnation or even fall in house prices; some neighbours who moved in a couple of years ago, have taken a loss on what they bought the place for, and are now in negative equity. We're going to see massive debt, spiraling out of control, very soon. And there doesn't seem to be any practical solution on the horizon. The stress from this will literally kill people. I'm glad I'm not a 'young person' now, is all I can say.
 
I sold up and left the east end over fifteen years ago - property prices are a joke. The simple reason is that so many have been bought up by foreign investment companies and businesses, it has had a knock on effect.

My dad's house was bought by his dad for £250.00 in 1952. My dad gave him £14,000.00 for it in 1973 and his wife (dad died) has just had it valued for £1.2 million. :eek:

It's only and end of terrace, early Victorian two bedroom that dad had extended by putting a kitchen on the back with another small bedroom above.
 
It's only and end of terrace, early Victorian two bedroom that dad had extended by putting a kitchen on the back with another small bedroom above.

Yes but it's in London. The Greatest City on Earth™. THE place to be for so many opportunities and reasons. Yes you can buy a house in the NE for £20k, but where are you going to work? Where it would pay the kind of salaries or offer the kind of opportunities London would? Cost and value are often very different things...
 
Yes but it's in London. The Greatest City on Earth™. THE place to be for so many opportunities and reasons. Yes you can buy a house in the NE for £20k, but where are you going to work? Where it would pay the kind of salaries or offer the kind of opportunities London would? Cost and value are often very different things...

This is true, just a shame there are not many Londoners left there now, still my favourite place in the world
I only go back to watch the O's these days, most of my friends have also moved out along the M11 corridor
 
This is true, just a shame there are not many Londoners left there now, still my favourite place in the world
I only go back to watch the O's these days, most of my friends have also moved out along the M11 corridor

What do you mean, 'not many Londoners left there now'? Everyone who lives in London, who wants to be, is a Londoner. It's a state of mind; nothing to do with where you were born or where you're from. It's where you're at. :cool:
 
What do you mean, 'not many Londoners left there now'? Everyone who lives in London, who wants to be, is a Londoner. It's a state of mind; nothing to do with where you were born or where you're from. It's where you're at. :cool:

Nonsense, need to be born there and have a sense of its history, hardly hear a cockney accent these days
My maternal grandparents died as a result of the blitz, late mum lived through it sheltering down the tube
 
Nonsense, need to be born there and have a sense of its history, hardly hear a cockney accent these days
My maternal grandparents died as a result of the blitz, late mum lived through it sheltering down the tube

Rubbish. Neither of my parents were born here, they're both 'Londoners'. Got loads of friends who weren't born here either, they're all still Londoners. The Asian shopkeepers who've run a business for God knows how long, they're Londoners. The Polish kids that work in the local shops, they're Londoners. The West Indian Tube workers, the Windrush Generation, they're Londoners. The intellectuals and the artists, the muscians, who've helped define London's culture and creativity, they're Londoners. The Jews, the Muslims, the Hindus, the Buddhists etc that have settled here, they're all Londoners. London is a place founded on people coming here from all over; it's an international city, a port, a place defined by all the different cultures, peoples and goods that have passed through it. There wouldn't be a London without all that. Anyone knowing London's true history, would agree with that.

If you've moved out cos you don't want to live here any more, you're no longer a Londoner.

quote-when-a-man-is-tired-of-london-he-is-tired-of-life-for-there-is-in-london-all-that-life-s...jpg

But I digress...
 
Rubbish. Neither of my parents were born here, they're both 'Londoners'.

To qualify as being a 'local' in the UK you need to be third generation born and bred in that area.
 
To qualify as being a 'local' in the UK you need to be third generation born and bred in that area.

Says who? Only insular, parochial and often racist types, and those who want to hold onto an often long gone, and perhaps not even ever really true, mythical ideal of something. There's no rules about 'belonging' to a place. It's a mindset. I'm a Londoner not because I was born here, but because this is my HOME, it's where I want to be, it's the place I yearn to come back to, if I'm ever away, it's the place I love, and it's the centre of MY universe. I reject all other arguments. Nobody gets to choose my identity but me. End of.
 
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To qualify as being a 'local' in the UK you need to be third generation born and bred in that area.
And in some places that still qualifies as "the new people" :D

To be a true Cockney, you must have been born within earshot of Bow Bells.
Maybe other cultures have similar ?
But you know us Brits we love our tradition (y)

And I'm glad my parents moved out of there when I was quite small ...
(y)
 
To be a true Cockney, you must have been born within earshot of Bow Bells.

This has always been something that's the subject of much debate and dispute. When I was growing up (in Bow), all the local 'Cockneys' insisted that the 'Bow Bells' were those of Bow Church, and not, as popular legend has it, those of the bells of St Mary Le Bow in Cheapside. Either way, it appears I'm a 'Cockney*' anyway:


"The region in which cockneys are thought to reside is not clearly defined. Originally, when London consisted of little more than the City, the term applied to all Londoners, but as the city grew this was replaced by less universal definitions. A common view is that in order to be a cockney, one must have been born within earshot of Bow Bells, the bells of St Mary-le-Bow,[23]which were cast at the Whitechapel Bell Foundry. However, the church of St Mary-le-Bow was destroyed in 1666 by the Great Fire of London and rebuilt by Sir Christopher Wren. Although the bells were destroyed again in 1941 in the Blitz, they had fallen silent on 13 June 1940 as part of the British anti-invasion preparations of World War II. Before they were replaced in 1961, there was a period when, by the "within earshot" definition, no "Bow Bell" cockneys could be born.[24] The use of such a literal definition produces other problems, since the area around the church is no longer residential and the noise of the area makes it unlikely that many people would now be born within earshot of the bells,[25]

The terms “East End of London” and “within the sound of bow bells” are used interchangeably, and the bells are a symbol of East End identity. However the Bow Bells definition reflects the earlier definition of Cockney as relating to all Londoners (at a time when London barely extended beyond the square mile. The use of the term to describe all Londoners generally, however, survived into the 19th century[10] before becoming restricted to the working class and their particular accent. The term is now used loosely to describe all East Londoners, irrespective of their speech.

A study was carried out by the City in 2000 to see how far away Bow Bells could be heard,[26] and it was estimated that the bells would have been heard up to six miles to the east, five miles to the north, three miles to the south, and four miles to the west. According to the legend of Dick Whittington the bells could once be heard from as far away as the Highgate Archway (4.5 miles north). Based on a definition of the bells audible range, all East Enders are cockneys, but not all cockneys are East Enders; though whereas an East Ender would be likely to proudly claim that entitlement, a resident of west, north or south London would be less likely to. The traditional core districts of the East End are Bethnal Green,Whitechapel, Spitalfields, Stepney, Wapping, Limehouse, Poplar, Haggerston, Aldgate, Shoreditch, Millwall, Cubitt Town, Hackney, Hoxton, Bow and Mile End. The area north of the Thames gradually expanded to include East Ham,Stratford, Leyton, West Ham and Plaistow as more land was built upon." -From Wiki.

*I don't, personally, identify as a 'Cockney', although many people have considered me such throughout my life. I am, however, definitely a Londoner. Many tribes have settled and lived here, and many more will come. And London will welcome them all, as it has done for centuries, millenia really. The Romans, the Danes, the Anglo Saxons, the Normans, the Jews at various times, the Dutch, the French, the Huguenots, Italians, Bangladeshis, Indians, West Africans, East Africans, West Indians, Turks, Poles, Romanians, Colombians, Brazilians, Afghans, Syrians, Swedes, Norwegians, South Africans, Australians, even people from The North™; all and many, many more have been and left their mark. The more the merrier!
 
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Still, this? What are you trying to 'prove' here? That you had it 'tougher'? It's all relative isn't it. Yes, there are more comforts, more labour saving devices, more this, more that, and significantly; far more easy credit. But there are still stresses and strains of everyday life. Far less job security now, for one. Far greater proportional burden for most people trying to buy their own house in any city or town with anything near decent prospects. Etc etc etc. But we've done this. This now seems to be some kind of willy waving contest to see who had it tougher. It's very boring. Bottom line is, for all your protestations of hardship, there are people on this planet now who don't have access to clean water, healthcare, education and all sorts. In 2020. Which makes them far tougher than you. So stop whinging and sit down and have a cup of tea. If you were really tough, you wouldn't be whining on about it all the time... ;)

There has always been stress and strain of everyday life some cope better than others no different now than it was in my day, job security is much the same there was a big spike leading up to the WW2 and a few smaller ones since, I'm sure when we come out of this there will be another one. If you want to live in a big city then you have to pay big city prices the same now as back in my day, my first house was a reasonably large 3 bed cottage in the middle of nowhere which I bought for less than £30,000 my cousin who had moved to London bought at around the same time a small 2up 2down do it upper it cost him over £90,000, I had a quick look and my old house is now worth about around £140,000 and his although it no longer looks like it needs doing up is around £450,00 so still around 3x the price.
 
This has always been something that's the subject of much debate and dispute. When I was growing up (in Bow), all the local 'Cockneys' insisted that the 'Bow Bells' were those of Bow Church, and not, as popular legend has it, those of the bells of St Mary Le Bow in Cheapside. Either way, it appears I'm a 'Cockney*' anyway:


"The region in which cockneys are thought to reside is not clearly defined. Originally, when London consisted of little more than the City, the term applied to all Londoners, but as the city grew this was replaced by less universal definitions. A common view is that in order to be a cockney, one must have been born within earshot of Bow Bells, the bells of St Mary-le-Bow,[23]which were cast at the Whitechapel Bell Foundry. However, the church of St Mary-le-Bow was destroyed in 1666 by the Great Fire of London and rebuilt by Sir Christopher Wren. Although the bells were destroyed again in 1941 in the Blitz, they had fallen silent on 13 June 1940 as part of the British anti-invasion preparations of World War II. Before they were replaced in 1961, there was a period when, by the "within earshot" definition, no "Bow Bell" cockneys could be born.[24] The use of such a literal definition produces other problems, since the area around the church is no longer residential and the noise of the area makes it unlikely that many people would now be born within earshot of the bells,[25]

The terms “East End of London” and “within the sound of bow bells” are used interchangeably, and the bells are a symbol of East End identity. However the Bow Bells definition reflects the earlier definition of Cockney as relating to all Londoners (at a time when London barely extended beyond the square mile. The use of the term to describe all Londoners generally, however, survived into the 19th century[10] before becoming restricted to the working class and their particular accent. The term is now used loosely to describe all East Londoners, irrespective of their speech.

A study was carried out by the City in 2000 to see how far away Bow Bells could be heard,[26] and it was estimated that the bells would have been heard up to six miles to the east, five miles to the north, three miles to the south, and four miles to the west. According to the legend of Dick Whittington the bells could once be heard from as far away as the Highgate Archway (4.5 miles north). Based on a definition of the bells audible range, all East Enders are cockneys, but not all cockneys are East Enders; though whereas an East Ender would be likely to proudly claim that entitlement, a resident of west, north or south London would be less likely to. The traditional core districts of the East End are Bethnal Green,Whitechapel, Spitalfields, Stepney, Wapping, Limehouse, Poplar, Haggerston, Aldgate, Shoreditch, Millwall, Cubitt Town, Hackney, Hoxton, Bow and Mile End. The area north of the Thames gradually expanded to include East Ham,Stratford, Leyton, West Ham and Plaistow as more land was built upon." -From Wiki.

*I don't, personally, identify as a 'Cockney', although many people have considered me such throughout my life. I am, however, definitely a Londoner. Many tribes have settled and lived here, and many more will come. And London will welcome them all, as it has done for centuries, millenia really. The Romans, the Danes, the Anglo Saxons, the Normans, the Jews at various times, the Dutch, the French, the Huguenots, Italians, Bangladeshis, Indians, West Africans, East Africans, West Indians, Turks, Poles, Romanians, Colombians, Brazilians, Afghans, Syrians, Swedes, Norwegians, South Africans, Australians, even people from The North™; all and many, many more have been and left their mark. The more the merrier!

You are not and never will be a Londoner, tough tom tit me old china
Plenty of what the cat licks it arse with, but a Londoner you ain't, just a mockney wannabee
No matter where I live I will always be a Londoner, being English is also about more than just being born here.
 
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This has always been something that's the subject of much debate and dispute.
I think anyone born in London knows the stories, we all have our favourite ;)

Many tribes have settled and lived here, and many more will come. And London will welcome them all,
You missed out the Arabs :D
I've not been anywhere near London in many years, but the last time I was there the Edgware road was mostly Arabic banks and shops.
Maybe that's changed I don't know ..
 
You are not and never will be a Londoner, tough tom tit me old china
Plenty of what the cat licks it arse with, but a Londoner you ain't, just a mockney wannabee

Lol! What are you scared of? 'Others' coming along and stealing YOUR identity? What gives you the right to claim such, but not others? 'Mockney'? Ha ha! Be off down the M11 with you! :LOL:

Love the irony of someone from the Danelaw, calling themselves a 'Londoner'...
 
Seems you are the one who is going on about it, no problem with my identity
Keep going you might convince yourself, still won't be true though.
Bung a singalong with chas and dave record on and dream away
 
I think anyone born in London knows the stories, we all have our favourite ;)


You missed out the Arabs :D
I've not been anywhere near London in many years, but the last time I was there the Edgware road was mostly Arabic banks and shops.
Maybe that's changed I don't know ..

God I forgot the Greeks and the Irish too! For shame. I apologise for any offence caused, it wasn't intentional.
 
God I forgot the Greeks and the Irish too! For shame. I apologise for any offence caused, it wasn't intentional.
:LOL:
I'm sure you would be forgiven :D
 
I'm sure you would be forgiven :D
I went to school in London during the 1960s. Great place and time to be a teenager. Then the current Mrs F. picked me for her boy toy and whisked me off to Devon where I've been (mostly) ever since. I spent a fair amount of time back in "The Smoke" over the years. Nice place to visit (when someone is paying you for it) but I'm glad I don't live there...

London Docklands from the 30th floor FX55 1020015.jpg
 
:LOL:
I'm sure you would be forgiven :D

It's unforgiveable...

In an effort to steer things back on track; certain comments above have made me think of the issue of 'identity'. It's certainly something that has fascinated me all my life. This notion that a particular identity 'belongs' to a particular group, and it's unavailable to others. But we now live in a society where the notion of identity is far more fluid, and changeable. I often see older folk struggle to comprehend how many young people don't conform to traditional notions of identity, particularly at the moment, with gender. Confused all the further, by various political arguments etc. We now live in a period where some men think their very 'masculinity' is threatened; this is very apparent amongst a lot of the pro-Trump gun-toting paranoid 'survivalists'; the guns being a symbol of how they are resisting 'emasculation' as they see it. And we see it in all our tribes here, as people retreat into cultures they feel offer them safety and security. Which is precisely why anyone who doesn't appear to conform, is seen as 'weird'. But very often, it's the struggle within individuals themselves, regarding their own identity, which is externalised onto others. vociferous protestations about how THOSE people are WRONG because they don't conform, when in fact it's that very conformity which is the root of the problem. It's because they themselves suffer a crisis of identity, and want to break free, but for whatever reason, can't. So they direct that anger onto others. Others who represent a freedom they themselves cannot, and maybe will never have. We've seen recently, how disillusionment and a crisis of cultural identity has led many to vote for the kind of divisive, jingoistic politics we now see tearing our society apart. Very sad.
 
God I forgot the Greeks and the Irish too! For shame. I apologise for any offence caused, it wasn't intentional.
And the Jews :)
I lived in St Johns Wood as a youngster, a very Jewish area (I'm not Jewish by the way) and my parents weren't wealthy, although we did have a very nice low rise council flat just off the High St. Went back a few years ago and it, like the Edgware Rd, has become "Arab". I wonder how they "sold" moving into a Jewish area to the first Arab that moved there. There was the mosque in Regents Park, maybe that made it easier for the Estate Agent.
I moved out when I got married (into Herts) and my parents moved to Kent just before that, the flats became private and probably worth a fortune now and in the process denying another generation of affordable homes in London. Gerrymongering at it's Westminster council's finest.
 
And the Jews

No I mentioned them. Jewish migration into London has been some of the most significant and important. It was the Dutch Jews who first introduced fish fried in Matzoh meal, to the East End. From this, we have our quintessentially 'British' Fish n Chips. London just isn't London without the Jews, it's as simple as that. From the shmutter trade of Petticoat Lane, to the old music halls, to the art of the Whitechapel Boys, and speaking of St John's Wood; old Siggy Freud with his psychoanalysis and it's impact on that field of 'Medicine'. Jewish culture has always been a part of my life, growing up in the East End; we had a Jewish bakers down the road, many of the stallholders in the local market were Jewish, and my dad originally got his Halal meat from the Kosher butchers of Leyden St E1. I'll never forget the sights and sounds of Chasidim with their Peyos, the screeching of terrified chickens, and the stench of chicken s***, blood and burnt feathers. And the Yiddish. Oy vey. I now have a Jewish partner and live in Stamford Hill. They've got me! :LOL:


Went back a few years ago and it, like the Edgware Rd, has become "Arab". I wonder how they "sold" moving into a Jewish area to the first Arab that moved there. There was the mosque in Regents Park, maybe that made it easier for the Estate Agent.

Wealthy Jews moved up the Finchley road, to Golders Green, Hendon and Finchley, although there is still a sizeable Jewish contingency in SJW. I went to a Bat Mitzvah in SJW synagogue only in February. It's quite funny to come out of there, to be looking at that other most English of things, Lords cricket ground. I bloody love London.
 
No I mentioned them. Jewish migration into London has been some of the most significant and important. It was the Dutch Jews who first introduced fish fried in Matzoh meal, to the East End. From this, we have our quintessentially 'British' Fish n Chips. London just isn't London without the Jews, it's as simple as that. From the shmutter trade of Petticoat Lane, to the old music halls, to the art of the Whitechapel Boys, and speaking of St John's Wood; old Siggy Freud with his psychoanalysis and it's impact on that field of 'Medicine'. Jewish culture has always been a part of my life, growing up in the East End; we had a Jewish bakers down the road, many of the stallholders in the local market were Jewish, and my dad originally got his Halal meat from the Kosher butchers of Leyden St E1. I'll never forget the sights and sounds of Chasidim with their Peyos, the screeching of terrified chickens, and the stench of chicken s***, blood and burnt feathers. And the Yiddish. Oy vey. I now have a Jewish partner and live in Stamford Hill. They've got me! :LOL:




Wealthy Jews moved up the Finchley road, to Golders Green, Hendon and Finchley, although there is still a sizeable Jewish contingency in SJW. I went to a Bat Mitzvah in SJW synagogue only in February. It's quite funny to come out of there, to be looking at that other most English of things, Lords cricket ground. I bloody love London.
My mother was originally from East London (Garford St, backs onto the docks - heavily bombed during the blitz).
There was a significant presence of Jewish people in those "northern" areas when I lived in SJW (1955 - 1973) but I believe there's now a large Asian presence there.
I used to walk to Lords and watch Sunday John Player League games as a lad.
Interesting how so many cultures seem to be able to live side by side in London without any significant issues or am I looking through rose tinted glasses?
 
My mother was originally from East London (Garford St, backs onto the docks - heavily bombed during the blitz).
There was a significant presence of Jewish people in those "northern" areas when I lived in SJW (1955 - 1973) but I believe there's now a large Asian presence there.
I used to walk to Lords and watch Sunday John Player League games as a lad.
Interesting how so many cultures seem to be able to live side by side in London without any significant issues or am I looking through rose tinted glasses?

I've never seen anything racial where I live, between Middlesbrough and Redcar, people thankfully seem to get on.
 
Nice place to visit (when someone is paying you for it) but I'm glad I don't live there...
Not for me it isn't. Far too many people. Too much Hustle & Bustle I like open spaces (y)
 
Interesting how so many cultures seem to be able to live side by side in London without any significant issues or am I looking through rose tinted glasses?

Well, I think most people can happily live side by side with each others, it's when 'culture' becomes overly political, that's when you get problems. I experienced a lot of hostility growing up, there were NF gangs roaming the streets, and then you had the BNP on the Island in the 90s. I think it's that thing where an entrenched 'community', which has never really felt comfortable or secure, those without agency, see changes happening beyond their control, and you get fear and resentment growing. People try to claim ownership of a place, an ideal, an identity; I saw such sentiment expressed on here only yesterday. But the truth is, and the thing to just accept, is that nobody has any 'rightful' claim to any place. Everything is transient, life is always in a state of flux. Personally. I absolutely LOVE all the diversity; I can go for a bike ride a few miles and enjoy proper Polish Pierogi, in a park in Barnet. Or I can have Nigerian tapas in Tottenham. Of course, we have the best beigels round here (yes; beigels, not 'bagels'). Fish n chips? Yep; just down the A10 there's a couple of good places. You can keep Pie n Mash though; always been too insipid for my tastes.

There's tension, there's hostility and there's outright hatred. No point in trying to deny that. But there's also a lot of warmth, kindness, love and genuine hospitality. It's when we find what we have in common, not how different we think we might be, that we can see how to get along together.
 
Not for me it isn't. Far too many people. Too much Hustle & Bustle I like open spaces (y)

That's fair enough. Me; I'm a city boy. Always will be. Open spaces are great, don't get me wrong. I have memories of being in mountains in Norway, and it was just to incredible to be in such a vast space, just nature and nothing else. But I get a bit bored with open spaces after a while, and yearn for the hustle and bustle. where people are all getting on doing their thing. Where life is happening.
 
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